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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
158
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Posted - 2012.03.03 05:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
How about just replacing Local Chat with Region Chat and only showing the people that talk. That way people will learn to bloody Dscan and not semi AFK there way threw the game. |
The Vastator
Posthuman Society
2
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Posted - 2012.03.03 09:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
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The Vastator
Posthuman Society
2
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Posted - 2012.03.03 09:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:The Vastator wrote:Any change made to local should be an improvement not a nerf. For example, It'd be very helpful, if one can set local to only show people with certain standings towards you but I'm sure this will probably turn to a heated debate between bears and lol-pirates. Also, WH local should be revamped so one can be seen for the first 5 mins upon entry. Delayed local = nerf on botters, carebears and the lazy, and neutral for everyone who can open the d-scanner and stab a button while their guns cycle, and a buff for people who hunt botters, lazy idiots and carebears Reduced local info (as above) = nerf on the lazy (you could program a bot to dock if Local went +1) and a buff for people who hunt botters, lazy idiots and carebears Removed local = nerf for botters, carebears, and the lazy and a buff for everyone. Now, as to your assertion people should appear in Local in w-space for 5 minutes, GTFO my game. First of all, Umadbro? Secondly, I don't derive any sort of fun in chasing botters and I strongly believe it's up to CCP to fix that issue. I'm aware of how much instability they can cause in the eve economy and I guess it's understandable if you need such an advantage in order to prey on such people/things. There's already more than enough ways to take advantage of "lazy idiots and carebears" but I guess it's the risk involved that's proven to be too much of a hassle for the likes of you that are hard working and quick to prey on such weaklings. |
Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
76
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Posted - 2012.03.03 11:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:ffs...stop it with the local bs... if you want to play eve with no local, come to WHs, we can always use more targets.
only change local needs is 0.0 local should be 10-15min delayed.
THIS is simple AND elegant. It would give roaming gangs an element of surprise on their enemies whether they are careless bears, botters, or a hostile fleet. It would promote more dynamic gameplay since sitting on a gate in a blob makes you vulnerable. It would also give smaller skirmish fleets the element of surprise (which is very useful for them). Think about if there was more than just "lighting a cyno" to employ surprise in fleet engagements.
One unintended consequence to this is that it might actually help nerf blobs. I'm not going to debate whether it should be 5, 10, or 15 minutes, but a delayed local for null would create a more dynamic environment without introducing complacency on the part of the afk cloaker or the semi afk ratter (quite the opposite) all the while preserving the uniqueness of W-space. Sig tanking is the new black |
Diablo Ex
Pro Synergy ACE WRECKING COMPANY
0
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Posted - 2012.03.05 16:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
I've always though that Local should be a Sov upgrade module and should be left up to the Sov Holder to pay for. Likewise, Local can then be jammed out (like a cyno-jammer) in contested areas...
Cloakies should never appear in local anyways, it goes against reason that whatever is "detecting" their presence in Local can't be used to locate them, unless it is a function of gate travel keeping a head count which could be unreliable if there are WH's in the system.
As a Game Mechanic, Local is what's broken.
(Edit: Sov Holders should also be allowed to turn off/password Stargates as well, and depend upon jumpgate networks if they choose... but that's a different thread) AFK Psy Ops Command Cyno-Cloaky Brings it to you - Any Time - Hot and Fresh |
Torijace
Industrial Anarchy
0
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Posted - 2012.03.05 21:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
I donGÇÖt think it needs to be one way or another. It seems to me to make logical sense to allow pos structures to enable local in null sec. These structures would consume much of the resources on a large tower and be vulnerable to attacks. Furthermore systems in null (including NPC space) that didnGÇÖt have this structure wouldnGÇÖt have local. Then rebalance null sec rats and anoms to account for the extra income lost because of the more risky venture. This would make the nullbears happy because of increased income potential and everybody else happy because null sec would be exciting again. As to the argument that if you donGÇÖt like local go to W-space. I think the big thing that differentiates null from wh space is the fact that you donGÇÖt have static entry and exit points with W-space, you do however have it with null. In regards to botters I think this would pretty much eliminate botters in systems without local even if a bot could tell that a new object appeared on d-scan it wouldnGÇÖt be able to easily tell if the vagabond is sitting at a pos empty or if itGÇÖs piloted.
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
13
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Posted - 2012.03.06 00:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ahrieman wrote: One unintended consequence to this is that it might actually help nerf blobs.
First: not seeing how this would nerf blobs... it would make it easier for roams to find targets since gatecamps wouldn't run as soon as local increased more that 1, but that wouldn't end the sheer unkillable entity that is the drake blob with shield resistance bonuses and a fleet booster with a siege warfare mindlink and logi.
Ahrieman wrote:all the while preserving the uniqueness of W-space.
Second: If you want W-Space to stay unique then drop the remove local support garbage. W-Space is W-Space because it has no local. Nullsec is K-Space because it has local. All its going to do to nullsec is help the roamer looking for the easy kill, nothing more. It wouldn't even nerf bots because they can already spam the d-scanner far more efficiently than a person could (I don't know about you but after about 5 minutes my fingers is hurting.) |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 01:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cyniac wrote:Recall what I mentioned above: Cyniac wrote:I also suspect that my PVP and my measure of success in PVP is very different from that of most players. Let me expand on this - my interest in PVP is evasion - I fly in hostile space (either in NPC null or in the null space held by hostile alliances) doing my thing (exploration mostly). Been doing it for months now in null - and it's been a long time since I was last caught. Why? Not because people have not tried, but simply because I have the perfect intel tool (local) to prevent anyone from ever catching me. That simple. Given that we are not discussing the intricacies of combat (how to kill a ship or whatever) but actually whether or not an engagement will actually take place, based on available intel, my experience allows me to authoritatively back the statements that I've made let me put it to you one more time: Local is broken. It provides too much intel, too easily, making it harder for small gang engagements (such as those which develop in WH space) to take place. This will primarily affect the amount of small gang action primarily because large fleets are used mainly to attack and/or defend static targets. (You know... sov units, POS, all that jazz). I'm quite happy to hear any arguments which would change this, but I've not yet heard any.
Umm... Mine's only slightly worse than yours, and im kinda noobish...
AND DONT HAVE LOCAL. I've been in a WH for almost a year.
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC 0ccupational Hazzard
48
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Posted - 2012.03.06 12:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Simple, make local a sov upgrade that requires extra up-keep. Depending on the level of the sov the local is delayed > instant
Sov 1 : delayed 10 minutes Sov 2: delayed 5 minutes Sov 3: delayed 2 minutes Sov 4: delayed 15 seconds Sov 5: Instant
This would work just fine, it would solve the botting problem because face it, botters occupy miltiary 5 systems that have nothing else and botting corporations cant all clusterfuk in the one system or they would make no money.
Or just make it depending on the true sec status, if local is delayed or not.
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Froggy Storm
Angels Of Death EVE Mayhem.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 13:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
There could be some merit in making local a warfare link module. Might add some relevance to "Information link" spec as its currently not very desirable. Make it an active module that burns significant cap even so BOTs couldnt just run it nonstop, or perhaps give it an action block out like a cloak.
Gives a new role to fill Not very BOT friendly Gives intel where your willing to pay for it |
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The Vastator
Posthuman Society
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 14:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Remove local from null sec. It's very easy to say for those who don't reside there. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
142
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Posted - 2012.03.06 17:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cyniac wrote: Let me tell you how I'd catch say a botting hulk in the situation you've just described (without local).
I'd warp onto their grid with a covert ship. I'd head towards one of the hulks. Literally I'd ram it at full speed - that would do two things:
1) I get to uncloak! 2) He's no longer aligned to warp
At that point - Tackle & kill (call in support depending on combat assets etc).
what would be different if this hulk isn't a bot but human? i think nothing will change.
So what is the main idea again?
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M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
13
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Posted - 2012.03.06 22:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Simple, make local a sov upgrade that requires extra up-keep. Depending on the level of the sov the local is delayed > instant
Sov 1 : delayed 10 minutes Sov 2: delayed 5 minutes Sov 3: delayed 2 minutes Sov 4: delayed 15 seconds Sov 5: Instant
This would work just fine, it would solve the botting problem because face it, botters occupy miltiary 5 systems that have nothing else and botting corporations cant all clusterfuk in the one system or they would make no money.
Or just make it depending on the true sec status, if local is delayed or not.
I like the idea, and would NPC space would stay as it currently is or change to sov 1?
IMO, I'd keep it the way it it because there a decent amount of travel through those systems and bots cant POS up every time a neut shows up or they would make no isk. |
Ahrieman
Parsec Flux
88
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Posted - 2012.03.06 23:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
What I supported was a delayed local for null sec. I will address these two points:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Ahrieman wrote: One unintended consequence to this is that it might actually help nerf blobs.
First: not seeing how this would nerf blobs... it would make it easier for roams to find targets since gatecamps wouldn't run as soon as local increased more that 1, but that wouldn't end the sheer unkillable entity that is the drake blob with shield resistance bonuses and a fleet booster with a siege warfare mindlink and logi.
I chose my words carefully and I think you did pay attention to the language I used. You are right: will this nerf the Drake blob? Prob not much at all. Will this mean more numbers = victory? Not necessarily - due to an element of surprise (that doesn't require a cyno). That's what I meant.
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Ahrieman wrote:all the while preserving the uniqueness of W-space. Second: If you want W-Space to stay unique then drop the remove local support garbage. W-Space is W-Space because it has no local. Nullsec is K-Space because it has local. All its going to do to nullsec is help the roamer looking for the easy kill, nothing more. It wouldn't even nerf bots because they can already spam the d-scanner far more efficiently than a person could (I don't know about you but after about 5 minutes my fingers is hurting.)
I NEVER supported the "remove local garbage." Secondly, helping the null sec roamer (not necessarily get "easy" kills though) IS a way to discourage blobber tactics. People complain that small gang/solo pvp is dead. That's because the game mechanics do not favor this form of play. Less people would want to blob if it weren't so effective meanwhile, other tactics just aren't very attractive in the face of large roaming gangs.
As for bots, yes they use D-scan. I heard that many bots have also used local bumps as a tool to activate "warp to safe" behavior - especially in the super quiet Russian bot space. This behavior would prevent using bombers to kill the bots. Am I incorrect here? Sig tanking is the new black |
Daemon Ceed
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
24
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Posted - 2012.03.07 08:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
How about this for an idea for 0.0: Create an anchorable structure that can be placed near stargates, stations, or moons that detect those in the system, like a surveillance camera. It's purpose is to display people who pass through or near the gates for a certain amount of time and shows them in local. After a certain amount of time they'll disappear out of local until they pass within a certain range of another anchored surveillance structure.
If they are smart enough to stay out of range of player installed surveillance structures for a certain amount of time, they disappear from local all together. This will force people to find blindspots in the systems security AND potentially allow the opportunity to kill botters should they be smart about it. Everywhere else on Earth they have security cameras/motion detectors/etc to find out when people are around. Why not in space?
With this proposal you can have the best of both worlds. Post with your main or GTFO! |
Chicken Pizza
Penumbra Institute
26
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:Karak Bol wrote:Whats "inactive"? How can eve notice that I am AFK? I assume that the client can detect mouse and keyboard inputs since it responds to them. AFK is simply the lack of mouse and keyboard inputs for a certain length of time. T-
That would require the EvE client to monitor processes it has no business monitoring, not to mention add unnecessary stress to the servers(these can't all be magically fixed client-side like people seem to think they can, and EvE is enough of a resource hog as it is). Add to that the fact that it's nobody's business whether or not I'm pressing keys or using my mouse.
If I am AFK, you shouldn't be able to tell. It adds to the whole "is he watching me still, or just sitting in system AFK?" effect that being in a cloaky bomber is primarily used for when harassing a system. You can really mess with someone's mind when they don't know if you'll strike when the Raven warps to a Hub, or when the Nightmare is at the most DPS-intense spawn in the Haven.
It's all about the mind games. You take those away and the only things left to gank will be bots... |
Chicken Pizza
Penumbra Institute
26
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Better idea.
If you're in system and uncloaked: You can see local, but you can be seen in local. If you're in system and cloaked: You cannot see local, but local cannot see you.
That just gives cloaky bombers the upper hand, because they don't actually need to see how many are in local. Any 0.0 bomber ganker with a brain will know how to d-scan. I know because I've done it.
The problem with all of these ideas is not the ideas themselves, but rather the people coming up with them. I could probably pull out several hundred killmails(at the very least, and some of which are on my killboard) where botters and players alike were ganked bearing it up in 0.0 by cloaky bombers and the like. And I haven't seen any of the dedicated ones(the predators OR the prey) on here bitching about local at all.
That being said, stop whining about local, coming up with ideas and fabricating events that will never stem from said ideas, and go back to whatever boring ISK-making activities you partake in all day for whatever fulfillment you can manage to get out of them, because one of these days, regardless of whether you can see me in local or not, you might find me(or somebody else) on your overview regardless.
^ Commas make it okay to type excessively long sentences. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
43
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Posted - 2012.03.07 15:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
in principle I believe local should be changed in 0.0. It should be made like w-space, have a fixed period delay, or some other kind of rule. However, in the current state of the game, making an easy, isolated change to local would be pretty terrible. Any change to nullsec-local rules should be part of a complete overhaul of the way people do intel in nullsec. If local is reworked, it should be done hand-in-hand with a completely new d-scan tool. There should be some preference or customization based on sov.
Also i said it before, local mechanics should have absolutely nothing to do with cloaking mechanics. My reaction to the tier system and skill tree overhaul https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=899560#post899560 |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
202
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Posted - 2012.03.08 01:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
People who say the client can't detect players twitching mice haven't stared at anyone sitting in a POS and determined velocity tag 0m/s = at keyboard, and absent velocity tag = 99% AFK.
As for Vastator, I reiterate: your proposal to add people to Local in w-space when they jump in is so patently stupid Beevis and Butthead quit EVE because of it. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
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Chicken Pizza
Penumbra Institute
26
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Posted - 2012.03.08 02:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:People who say the client can't detect players twitching mice haven't stared at anyone sitting in a POS and determined velocity tag 0m/s = at keyboard, and absent velocity tag = 99% AFK.
As for Vastator, I reiterate: your proposal to add people to Local in w-space when they jump in is so patently stupid Beevis and Butthead quit EVE because of it.
The client only detects twitching mice if it's the in-game cursor being moved. |
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Austneal
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
22
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Posted - 2012.03.09 15:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cyniac wrote:
Let me tell you how I'd catch say a botting hulk in the situation you've just described (without local).
I'd warp onto their grid with a covert ship. I'd head towards one of the hulks. Literally I'd ram it at full speed - that would do two things:
1) I get to uncloak! 2) He's no longer aligned to warp
At that point - Tackle & kill (call in support depending on combat assets etc). I suppose it might not work every time but it would certainly work a whole lot more than the current situation where appearing in local is enough to make the bots vanish.
Just thought I'd point out a few flaws in this.
1.) Your "full speed" while cloaked is what, 300m/s or so in a frig? Also, if you're in a frig cloaked with no mwd / ab running, you're going to be light as a feather and will probably do little to nothing in terms of bumpage.
2.) As he described, the bot is going to be aligned out and moving. Making it quite hard to make contact with him at non-mwd speeds, unless you maneuver directly in front of him, and ram him head on.
3.) You don't decloak at 0 on the bot, you'll decloak at 2km for him. Since this is a bot we're talking about, it will probably be ready to warp the millisecond you decloak. And I would imagine that a bot's reflexes would be much greater than yours.
Cyniac wrote:But what would I know of PVP right?
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