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Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.26 03:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 26/04/2008 03:01:23 Lets say, remove ice fields from BOTH highsec and 0.0? This would REQUIRE the use of lowsec to support 0.0 alliances, would create lowsec alliances, and populate lowsec in general. let the flames begin!
Apoctasy	Posted - 2008.04.26 03:11:00 - [2] actually just remove ice fields from highsec.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.26 03:14:00 - [3] see i'm thinkin if they do just highsec then nothing will really change, everyone will just hang out in 0.0 then. If lowsec is the only place to get ice, then anyone who wants to run a pos will need to have access to lowsec. Then you'll get 0.0 sized battles, over territory, but without the bubbles and doomsdays and nano-you-know-whattery.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.26 03:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Harley Gonzo but without the bubbles and doomsdays and nano-you-know-whattery. War-dec = nanos are fair game. They only don't work when one side or the other has to tank sentries. Which means they are great for anti-piracy gate ganks ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:18:00 - [5] Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Harley Gonzo but without the bubbles and doomsdays and nano-you-know-whattery. War-dec = nanos are fair game. They only don't work when one side or the other has to tank sentries. Which means they are great for anti-piracy gate ganks yes... yes they are
Andrea Skye	Posted - 2008.04.26 04:30:00 - [6] I like this idea :P
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:25:00 - [7] Yes and no. Yes from high sec as it would also help cut down (a bit) on macros and farmers who plague ice belts. No to dropping them from 0.0. The only reason I say that is because there are already more than enough capitals and hotdrops in low sec. The last thing we want is for large 0.0 alliances to have a reason to leave supercaps hanging around in low sec systems that have ice fiels. So 0.0 alliances can have it out for the ice fields in the nullsec region and hotdrop and DDD each other to hell and back for all we care. I can forsee pirate corps running racket businesses out of ice field low secs, the carebears get to mine in relative safety, the pies don't kill the bears and even protect them when need be and get a cut of the ice sales to empire. Everybody wins. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Commander Thrawn the united	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 26/04/2008 05:40:04 why would we want to turn lowsec into the blob lagfest that is 0.0 low sec is fine as it is now tbh. edit: i do support removing ice belt from highsec however. I see nothing negative from this at all.
angient Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:07:00 - [9] Originally by: Commander Thrawn Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 26/04/2008 05:40:04 low sec is fine as it is now tbh. Low sec is completely dead. The only things you come across these days is just other roaming pirate groups, and the ocassional catalyst in a belt.
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:19:00 - [10] Edited by: Slate Fistcrunch on 26/04/2008 06:24:26 Originally by: angient Originally by: Commander Thrawn Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 26/04/2008 05:40:04 low sec is fine as it is now tbh. Low sec is completely dead. The only things you come across these days is just other roaming pirate groups, and the ocassional catalyst in a belt. Low sec is pretty bleak. The problem is there is no draw. Something of value needs to be in low sec. I don't think exclusive ice is the way. Moving ice solely to low sec has a tremendous ripple effect. Zero zero siege warfare is hit. Zero zero sovereignty is hit. Research towers are hit and thus invention and thus all tech 2 prices. The consequences ripple out to most (if not all) aspects of the game. If you're going to make a change to low sec, don't rip up this gigantic core of the game that is working more or less. Others have come up with ideas. The threads are longer than novels. edit: And we both know 90% of ice miners aren't going to transition to low sec. They'll mine hi sec ores.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.27 05:34:00 - [11] In response to 'wardecs', with the privateer nerf , 0.0 alliances aren't going to wardec every corp they see just to turn lowsec to 0.0. And if they don't wardec everyone they see they're going to have to take sec hits if they want to kill the people in their systems. I also don't think they'd just hang out in lowsec with supercaps when they don't have stuff like cyno jammers and Doomsdays, and with the introduction of hictors. Nano-ships are decent against pirate gatecamps, but defending a mining op is a different scenario. Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. There's plenty of things with value in lowsec, the problem is that there's no point to it because you can still get everything everywhere else. If something as cruicial as ice to the market we to be completely moved to lowsec, there'd be a reason to go there.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.27 05:35:00 - [12] In response to 'wardecs', with the privateer nerf , 0.0 alliances aren't going to wardec every corp they see just to turn lowsec to 0.0. And if they don't wardec everyone they see they're going to have to take sec hits if they want to kill the people in their systems. I also don't think they'd just hang out in lowsec with supercaps when they don't have stuff like cyno jammers and Doomsdays, and with the introduction of hictors. Nano-ships are decent against pirate gatecamps, but defending a mining op is a different scenario. Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. There's plenty of things with value in lowsec, the problem is that there's no point to it because you can still get everything everywhere else. If something as cruicial as ice to the market we to be completely moved to lowsec, there'd be a reason to go there.
Aadi Grox Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.04.27 06:18:00 - [13] Originally by: techzer0 They only don't work when one side or the other has to tank sentries. Which means they are great for anti-piracy gate ganks I hear falcons are also good as support for the said nanogang
Corduroy Rab Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.27 06:24:00 - [14] Something that a friend of mine and I were thinking about an idea that mirrors some of the suggestions in this thread. It is to leave ice in 0.0 and low sec alone, but remove static ice fields in high sec. There would still be ice in high sec, but you would have to scan it down.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.27 08:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Aadi Grox Originally by: techzer0 They only don't work when one side or the other has to tank sentries. Which means they are great for anti-piracy gate ganks I hear falcons are also good as support for the said nanogang Lucky mine hasn't been around when ya'll are in system And no I don't think you're uber... when they make a Huginn that can tank sentries (lol) you'll be in trouble! Or I'll just keep my sec up so you can't shoot me first without dying horribly ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.28 05:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Corduroy Rab Something that a friend of mine and I were thinking about an idea that mirrors some of the suggestions in this thread. It is to leave ice in 0.0 and low sec alone, but remove static ice fields in high sec. There would still be ice in high sec, but you would have to scan it down. Still tho. People would just scan them out, or mine it in 0.0. The only way it would FIX lowsec is if ice were exclusive to lowsec. lowsec needs something thats essential to the game, it doesn't have anything that people can't obtain in highsec or 0.0 where they have the protection of concord or their supercapblobs and doomsdays.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 05:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Originally by: Corduroy Rab Something that a friend of mine and I were thinking about an idea that mirrors some of the suggestions in this thread. It is to leave ice in 0.0 and low sec alone, but remove static ice fields in high sec. There would still be ice in high sec, but you would have to scan it down. Still tho. People would just scan them out, or mine it in 0.0. The only way it would FIX lowsec is if ice were exclusive to lowsec. lowsec needs something thats essential to the game, it doesn't have anything that people can't obtain in highsec or 0.0 where they have the protection of concord or their supercapblobs and doomsdays. Exactly right. I used to scan down lowsec ores in highsec or mine it from missions when I carebeared, because it was easier to get a "downing the slavers 2/2" and mine omber for a week than it was to go mine it in lowsec. And if you farmed all three lvl 3 agents in the station you could have multiple belts to mine in a system without any belts. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Sprak Mighty Morphin Power Rangers	Posted - 2008.04.28 05:53:00 - [18] Techzer used to mine? Busted. :)
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 05:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Sprak Techzer used to mine? Busted. :) My laptop with 10fps ftl I got a real PC and my sec has been ****** since. Barges do make for lols though... Just watch the vid planks made
Ja'kar MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:22:00 - [20] Edited by: Ja''kar on 28/04/2008 11:22:25 Yah take em from high sec and drop in low that will be much fun would cause a few pirate wars I bet good idea 2bh low sec is dead to what it used to be MAFIA Website
Ordon Gundar Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Ordon Gundar on 28/04/2008 11:33:05 The only benefit I get from living in low-sec is the decent NPC trade routes I pick up on to make money. With the right buy orders, and the fact that a particular low-sec factory has in insatiable demand, means that one 12 jump trip with a Badger can net me 800k Isk. Rinse and repeat a few times. Nice money. The volumes involved also make Transport sized transactions possible, so the skies the limit! "Stay Small..Fly Fast..Keep Your Ship" - Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises
tiller Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.28 11:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, ME
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.28 14:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Ordon Gundar Edited by: Ordon Gundar on 28/04/2008 11:33:05 The only benefit I get from living in low-sec is the decent NPC trade routes I pick up on to make money. With the right buy orders, and the fact that a particular low-sec factory has in insatiable demand, means that one 12 jump trip with a Badger can net me 800k Isk. Rinse and repeat a few times. Nice money. The volumes involved also make Transport sized transactions possible, so the skies the limit! 800k isk for 12 jumps is horrible money. You can go to 0.0 warp to a random belt, kill 2 rats, and you've made at least a mil. Or you can mine in highsec for an hour and make WELL over 800k. The most profitable thing there is in lowsec right now is piracy, and thats slowly dying.
Ordon Gundar Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Harley Gonzo 800k isk for 12 jumps is horrible money. You can go to 0.0 warp to a random belt, kill 2 rats, and you've made at least a mil. Or you can mine in highsec for an hour and make WELL over 800k. The most profitable thing there is in lowsec right now is piracy, and thats slowly dying. No its not..I am only a two-month-old player and I cant rat in 0.0 with a frigate. I am also not skilled / geared up for mining in any sec. Low-sec has its value for players at my stage of the game. I wont touch it when I have either (i) enough collateral and remote trading skills to play the PC market or (ii) build a decent 0.0 ratting ship. "Stay Small..Fly Fast..Keep Your Ship" - Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 26/04/2008 03:01:23 Lets say, remove ice fields from BOTH highsec and 0.0? This would REQUIRE the use of lowsec to support 0.0 alliances, would create lowsec alliances, and populate lowsec in general. let the flames begin! No. removing anything from high sec and putting it in lower security space will never help. High sec dwellers would just mine somthing else that is available in high sec. You wouldnt see any change in high sec at all just fewer eve online subscriptions in general. I agree with you that low sec has a low population but you need to give high sec dwellers a reason to go to low sec without taking anything away. www.eve-players.com
Nama Saya Chickens with an Attitude No Law	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Harley Gonzo see i'm thinkin if they do just highsec then nothing will really change, everyone will just hang out in 0.0 then. If lowsec is the only place to get ice, then anyone who wants to run a pos will need to have access to lowsec. Then you'll get 0.0 sized battles, over territory, but without the bubbles and doomsdays and nano-you-know-whattery. Yup! Could not say it better. It will be a great thing! Finally lots of targets
angient Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.28 18:45:00 - [27] Originally by: ViolenTUK No. removing anything from high sec and putting it in lower security space will never help. High sec dwellers would just mine somthing else that is available in high sec. You wouldnt see any change in high sec at all just fewer eve online subscriptions in general. The whole point of moving ice to low sec is that Ice is essential to fueling pos's. And without ice carebears couldnt fuel thier pos's and would be FORCED to go to low sec. Or not have a pos.
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:28:00 - [28] I still disagree with taking it out of nullsec. I have absolutely no desire to get involved in the mega-blobs and cap hotdrops that plague zero. To say that a 0.0 alliance wouldn't put a faction deathstar in an ice belt system and then just flood the damn thing with moms and carriers, blockading the gates while they ran a mining op is silly. Why would a 0.0 alliance have any problems engaging in low sec and taking hits? I've seen big 0.0's with outlaw status. It doesn't mean a damn thing to them to take the hit. They can rat it back up if they really want but there's really no point if they're just chilling in their own systems. I still like the idea of removing it from high sec, just not 0.0. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Orar Ironfist Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:40:00 - [29] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, ME /thread tbh Pirate for Life(no matter my sec)
Seragon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:59:00 - [30] If you want to see more people in low sec then you should do something about it. And asking CCP to change the game isn't it. People won't go to low sec because the risks are too high with no current way to manage them. It's those risks, not the rewards that are why people don't go. Pirates have overfished their ponds and dried up all the stocks. If you really want more people to come to low sec, make it safer for them. Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. If all you want is more people to shoot, leave low sec and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will never change the popularity of low sec.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Seragon If you want to see more people in low sec then you should do something about it. And asking CCP to change the game isn't it. People won't go to low sec because the risks are too high with no current way to manage them. It's those risks, not the rewards that are why people don't go. Pirates have overfished their ponds and dried up all the stocks. If you really want more people to come to low sec, make it safer for them. Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. If all you want is more people to shoot, leave low sec and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will never change the popularity of low sec. and there is no way to manage the risks in 0.0 either if people really wanted to go to lowsec they would have done number 2 already
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:34:00 - [32] Edited by: Tai Paktu on 28/04/2008 21:36:32 Originally by: Seragon If all you want is more people to shoot... No. What we want is a more diverse and lively community to exist in low sec. TBH, there are rewards to be found in low sec. With the use of maybe a jump freighter, a large faction POS and some carebears based in both low sec and high sec, one could actually do quite well in a low sec region through the market. Who knows, you migh even be able to work something out with the local pies. Originally by: Seragon Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. Anti-pies have tried similiar endeavours. The fact that they're the only thing around to shoot means they have a rough time. Most of us have short attention spans and would rather kill you once today then 20 times if you set up shop. And besides, who's going to trust a bunch of s who say, "hai you s, we don't wanna kill you anymoar. We're gonna fight other pirates (already happens) and let you guyz mine in peace, kthnxbai?" Originally by: Searong People won't go to low sec because they're scared. Fixed that for you. Low sec is not significantly different than any other part of the game. It's about cost and benefit. In high sec, the cost is that you can be live peacefully and horde ISK, be war dec'd and die or be suicide ganked and die. In low sec, you can still die in all the above ways. You can also live in relative peace, no less so than if you were at war with some dec corp. But there's no huge benefits for bears to live there. 0.0 can be extremely costly but extremely rewarding. TL;DR - Low sec isn't as easily profitable as high sec or 0.0. Ice being removed from high sec means bears either lose their research POS, go to low sec and fight for the ice or buy it from others who step up and fight. Either of the last two ways, we get our fight and are happy. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:02:00 - [33] Originally by: angient The whole point of moving ice to low sec is that Ice is essential to fueling pos's. And without ice carebears couldnt fuel thier pos's and would be FORCED to go to low sec. Or not have a pos. Thats right thats all that would happen. Little or no Player owned stations in empire. You wouldn't force them into low sec at all they simply wouldnt keep one. www.eve-players.com
Deikanis	Posted - 2008.04.28 22:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Seragon If you want to see more people in low sec then you should do something about it. And asking CCP to change the game isn't it. People won't go to low sec because the risks are too high with no current way to manage them. It's those risks, not the rewards that are why people don't go. Pirates have overfished their ponds and dried up all the stocks. If you really want more people to come to low sec, make it safer for them. Start a large corp / alliance structure with a solid NRDS policy that polices low sec. Form up a player run Concord to provide security and more people will come. If all you want is more people to shoot, leave low sec and go to 0.0. Nerfing high sec will never change the popularity of low sec. Agreed. Let's not forget about pirates bragging (movies and threads) all over the net about killing noobs in low sec, then saying "Hey noob you shouldn't be here. I actually had done you a favor noob.". Now no one goes there, only skilled pilots who want some fun . But this is another thread where the pirate don't want to leave it's nest, so let's blame the game as it is. What's the problem in poping people in 0.0? As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.29 04:47:00 - [35] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 29/04/2008 04:47:50 Originally by: tiller Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, MY CHIN fixed Originally by: Deikanis As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems. Highsec ice belts don't lag what makes lowsec belts any different
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.04.29 06:00:00 - [36] I though moving all ice to low sec would be perfect you have all the fighting you want when 0.0 alliance came up to mining ice, but then what most pirates seem to want is solo player from highsec coming down. Anyway this is one idea I would support I am sure my corp would love to mining ice in low sec (well I am lying there but thats ok). Anyway I cannt see any 0.0 alliance liking the ice being moved to low sec and I cannt imagine a high sec players liking the idea much either. Though it is an idea that would move alot more players into low sec.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:08:00 - [37] Originally by: MilowFV Though it is an idea that would move alot more players into low sec. No it wouldn't. You would not move people to low sec by moving the ice fields. High sec miners would just mine somthing else. They would unanchor their pos at a similar time. www.eve-players.com
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:13:00 - [38] Originally by: ViolenTUK Originally by: angient The whole point of moving ice to low sec is that Ice is essential to fueling pos's. And without ice carebears couldnt fuel thier pos's and would be FORCED to go to low sec. Or not have a pos. Thats right thats all that would happen. Little or no Player owned stations in empire. You wouldn't force them into low sec at all they simply wouldnt keep one. Thats a good thing tho. Only profitable pos's will remain, less pos's = less traffic = less lag. And with the amount of money pos's make people, I really doubt all of highsec and 0.0 are going to just scrap their pos's to avoid lowsec. EVE economics practically run on pos's. Right now being in lowsec isn't a necessary part of the game. The need to be in lowsec is missing. Putting something exclusive and essential to the market into local is exactly the kind of boost it needs. People need to stop looking at this like its a pirate looking for more targets. Lowsec is a different part of the game WITH ITS OWN SET OF RULES. A set of rules that, when the whiners get over it, are really fun, and more balanced (thus the whiners). If people can get over the fact that getting blown up is not the end of the world, lowsec can be the most entertaining places in the game. But it sucks to be the only people around. Lowsec and the lowsec rules would be waay more fun with more traffic.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Harley Gonzo I don't think you grasp how important POS's are to the game. Empire pos's arenÆt as important as many make out. They are particularly useful for tech 1 blueprint material research but manufacture is possible and profitable without ME research although due to the huge deflation of virtually all ships and modules over the past few years the profit margin is very thin. You can invent through a pos mobile lab but there are many slots available in npc stations it isnÆt really necessary and this is the case with copying also. Profitable manufacturing is mainly through the invention of copied blueprint which can be accomplished without the need of a pos and this has become increasingly common. Eve economics certainly arenÆt run on pos's. Originally by: Harley Gonzo I really doubt all of highsec and 0.0 are going to just scrap their pos's to avoid lowsec. Referring to empire they just might do that. Many players really do hate low sec that much. Even if eve economics ran on pos's it isnÆt their duty to continue fulfilling their industrial role. Faced with the option of mining in low security many players would simply look at a different aspect of eve and turn to something else. www.eve-players.com
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:05:00 - [40] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 29/04/2008 09:08:00 Right, but I'm not saying just take ice out of highsec. What about the 0.0 pos's? They'd need to go to lowsec too. The ENTIRETY of eve would have to go to lowsec (0.1 to 0.4) systems TO RUN THEIR POS. Or buy from someone who does. Either way, it develops lowsec. Everyone who's been suggesting things to fix lowsec have always seemed to be 'get the highsec peoples down to lowsec'. Noone thought to bring the semi-good players UP from 0.0.
Macedon Jankolas MAFIA	Posted - 2008.04.29 10:57:00 - [41] That could be a very good thing to do. One of many. test tets test
jimmyjam Gallente Wise Guys Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.04.29 12:20:00 - [42] Originally by: angient Originally by: Commander Thrawn Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 26/04/2008 05:40:04 low sec is fine as it is now tbh. Low sec is completely dead. The only things you come across these days is just other roaming pirate groups, and the ocassional catalyst in a belt. Lo sec is not dead you just have to travel a little bit.
Privavarian Gallente 21st Raiders Regiment TWISTED INFECTION	Posted - 2008.04.29 14:45:00 - [43] I think Ice should be completely removed from Highsec. Also some ice types, the more common ones should only be aquired in lowsec and not in 0.0 so an alliance is actually forced to operate in 2 areas. and also boosts up the trade value of ice. this also makes lowsec alliances valuable to 0.0 alliances in order of trade ect. this will boost the eveconomy some bit. Your friendly pirate in a system near you priv If the Enemy is in range.. So are you.
Kelmor Malbeth	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:05:00 - [44] Edited by: Kelmor Malbeth on 29/04/2008 22:07:18 Edited by: Kelmor Malbeth on 29/04/2008 22:05:42 posted idea elsewhere: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=759657&page=1#20
Faife Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.29 22:34:00 - [45] Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.29 23:22:00 - [46] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever that is funny... Back to OP and his thoughts. Everyone summed it up for ya. Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Vigilant Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 29/04/2008 22:34:35 So just throwing this out there, let's just remove ice fields from 0.0, low sec, AND high sec. Ice prices will go through the roof! stops hotdropping cap ship****gotry as well best idea ever that is funny... Back to OP and his thoughts. Everyone summed it up for ya. Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant So cutting off a method for bots to make isk is bad because they will find new ways? Curing AIDS is bad because new diseases will mutate beyond the cure? Removing Ice from highsec will get the bots on low ends get people into lowsec People in lowsec good
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:30:00 - [49] Marcus, The macro / farmer population is not going anywhere. First they mined normal ore and cashed in on that. Then they found ice belts. Ice is easier cause you have to mine it 23/7 with 10 plus mackinaws to make one roid pop. Then just move to the next...non stop supply. CCP can only solve this problem, but they are un-willing cause every macro / farmer represents 15 bucks a month. Your comparison to AIDs of all things is pretty silly at best. You want to cure the macro / farmer popualtion, removing ice from high sec. and 0.0 will not help. What it will do is cause more of the cloaked ravens in 0.0 that people constantly b*tch about. Or they will change back to regular ore. Yes I fully agree, low sec. needs something to make it more attractive. Cause at this time, most people just ask themselves this "Why risk my ship / pod for a few more isk per pull /npc kill ? " Fly Safe Vigilant
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.30 02:36:00 - [50] But they aren't mining the ice I fail to see what the problem is
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.02 05:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Vigilant Revoving ice from High Sec. really only accomplishes two things : 1) More targers for 's 2) Makes Macro / Farmers re think new strategies for making ISK and selling it. More targets for pirates only means theres more people in lowsec. More people in lowsec is what we're aiming for. And making things hard for farmers is a good thing. Who cares if they're not going anywhere, it still affects them negatively. Originally by: Vigilant It will make it really hard on a lot of Alliances also, if you give it some thought. Since they buy a vast majority of there ice products via buy orders in High Sec. A carebear will not goto Low Sec. to mine ice for his tower or for profit, if he has to dodge pirates every two seconds. And considering this is C&P, ice mining is a mainstay for new players, believer it not. Easy to make money, low risk, can be done semi-AFK (when Goon's are not rampaging) and its damm easy to tank 0.5 and up rats. Even if you moved it all to low sec. all the alliance would just camp a belt and guard there guys or a bunch of "farmers" who are mining for them Really, if you wanted this... CCP would have to make some huge changes to the whole idea of POS's ownership in High Security. Considering Material Eff. slots are no where to found in Empire (unless you want to wait 10 plus days average). Fly Safe Vigilant Thats the point. I'm not trying to turn lowsec into the nubfest that is highsec. Mining in lowsec isn't supposed to be easy. An alliance SHOULD camp the belt that their miners are mining in. And a carebear WILL go to lowsec, if it means they can run their pos. Something as valuable as POS fuel should not be so easy to obtain. At least not afkable. You've really got things backwards, EVE is a good game because of the fact that it isn't easy all the time. If stuff keeps getting nerfed in favor of the carebears all we'll be left with is a world of warcraft pve server.
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:41:00 - [52] Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Being at my pc to play a computer game!? wtf ccp I quit
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 07:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Being at my pc to play a computer game!? wtf ccp I quit Umm, what? Learn to read please.
Deikanis	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 29/04/2008 04:47:50 Originally by: tiller Originally by: Harley Gonzo Somethinlg of GREAT vaue should be in lowsec. there is already, MY CHIN fixed Originally by: Deikanis As for ice belts only in low sec, it seems a bad idea because there will be a major lag in those systems. Highsec ice belts don't lag what makes lowsec belts any different As i said, ice belts ONLY in low sec could cause lag. That was what this thread was about i believe. In high sec you don't see lag, because there's many of them in 0.0 also. Just imagine the few low sec places as the ones with ice belts. Everyone (corps included) would go there. Big mining ops with heavy escorts would roam those systems, and that means lot of lag.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:11:00 - [56] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:54 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:26 Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Yea, cuz pirates whine about the game and get stuff nerfed in their favor ALL the time... It's not like pirates have the advantage, in any way. You do realize that being -10 means, ANYONE CAN SHOOT YOU FOR FREE. BUT, if you want to shoot someone else, they get an extra 350 dps bonus from sentry guns/station guns. We also can't enter highsec, so carebears can always just LEAVE. I think the reason people hate pirates so much is because its such a slap in the face to get killed by one. It's like your friend beating you at street fighter with the handicap all the way up. This game is based on the principle of RISK vs REWARD. Why should people be able to make billions at a pos if they don't ever have to risk anything.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:21:00 - [57] Just remove ice belts, from high, low and 0.0 sec. How about that eh? I bet you can squeeze Eve players to just about ANYWHERE if you're prepared to think outside the box enough.
Kami Nodachi Gallente Lobstosity	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:54 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 02/05/2008 12:14:26 Originally by: Kami Nodachi Whereas you pirates would rather the game get changed so it is easier and easier to target people anywhere, and force people to jump through hoops that are hoop-camped by pirates, and where you have to be at your pc 23/7 to make sure you don't get obliterated. Yea, cuz pirates whine about the game and get stuff nerfed in their favor ALL the time... It's not like pirates have the advantage, in any way. You do realize that being -10 means, ANYONE CAN SHOOT YOU FOR FREE. BUT, if you want to shoot someone else, they get an extra 350 dps bonus from sentry guns/station guns. We also can't enter highsec, so carebears can always just LEAVE. I think the reason people hate pirates so much is because its such a slap in the face to get killed by one. It's like your friend beating you at street fighter with the handicap all the way up. This game is based on the principle of RISK vs REWARD. Why should people be able to make billions at a pos if they don't ever have to risk anything. Can you not dec them and blow it up?
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:28:00 - [59] You er.... You do know that highsec Ice is absolute crap compared to lowsec ice, right? This er... MYTHICAL! reward that people seem to think lowsec needs... it er... Well, it already exists. It's just er..... if you try to get the reward, you get -10 blobbed until you realise the rewards are valueless if it costs you more in ships than you get from it compared to the same deal in hisec. Yeah, are we getting it yet? Or are we STILL believeing that somehow lowsec, as much a sandbox as any place else, has been utterly degenerated by the players, not by CCP. CCP did NOT completely destroy lowsec. The players did. CCP made it BETTER. Much better exploration, L5 agents, Much better Ice. And STILL they don't go. But why not? Like I just explained, I have to say it twice per post, because we're not big on readers or thinkers, you will be killed, or forced into dock for hours at a time in lowsec, for the vast majority of people. Just because you can think of one lowsec system with a 25 man strong anti-pie gang, doesn't make your opinion valid. Your opinion would be valid if you couldn't undock as a -10 because you would get yours handed to you within 3 minutes, despite being very AWESOME! indeed. You have no valid on lowsec rewards if your agenda is more fish to hunt. Because the more CCP lure into your deathcamps, the less they will come. So, third time for the cheap seats at the back, RISK is the problem, not REWARDS.
Samacia	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:06:00 - [60] Edited by: Samacia on 02/05/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: Apoctasy actually just remove ice fields from highsec. This would have the desired effect your looking for, but, it'll never happen. Are you kidding me?!!? ICE is the life of 0.0 alliances. Without ice they would have no POS. Pos shutdowns and territory takeovers would ensure like crazy. Plus piracy in lowsec would abound when alliances try to ICE mine in lowsec. The alliances would have no way to control the lowsec territory. There are no bubbles they can use. They would take sec hits trying to keep non-pirate non-alliance members out of there ice systems in low-sec. Hilarity would ensue! The Top 10 Alliances would go ballistic on the forums. CCP wonÆt go for that.
m3rb3aSt GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.02 14:26:00 - [61] Really, I think that lowsec does need a boost. Having icefields only be in low sec, along with removing any ore other then veld from highsec would do it.
Inifred	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:12:00 - [62] Since I don't mine I guess that part wouldn't matter to me, but I know plenty that just wouldn't play anymore. Maybe it would be good riddance, but CCP still has bills to pay. Good idea that I doubt will ever even be discussed during coffee breaks at CCP.
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.05.02 22:49:00 - [63] Originally by: Samacia Edited by: Samacia on 02/05/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: Apoctasy actually just remove ice fields from highsec. This would have the desired effect your looking for, but, it'll never happen. Are you kidding me?!!? ICE is the life of 0.0 alliances. Without ice they would have no POS. Pos shutdowns and territory takeovers would ensure like crazy. Plus piracy in lowsec would abound when alliances try to ICE mine in lowsec. The alliances would have no way to control the lowsec territory. There are no bubbles they can use. They would take sec hits trying to keep non-pirate non-alliance members out of there ice systems in low-sec. Hilarity would ensue! The Top 10 Alliances would go ballistic on the forums. CCP wonÆt go for that. DING DING Someone understands economics of EVE. Lots of high secuirty materials goto low security and null security combat. Everyone depends on everyone else, minus the Macro / Farmers.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.03 00:02:00 - [64] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 03/05/2008 00:11:51 Originally by: Fifth Horseman You er.... ...for the cheap seats at the back, RISK is the problem, not REWARDS. Do you realize what risk *VERSUS* reward means? There's valuable stuff in every system. But if its not worth the risk, it isn't worth anything. When I say lowsec needs something VALUABLE, I'm saying it needs something thats still valuable even after you factor in the risk. That's why removing ice JUST from highsec wouldn't do jack squat, cuz everyone can get just as much ice as they need in 0.0. Believe it or not, it is possible to survive in lowsec. Sure it requires a little foresight and not being a noob in general, but it's very doable. Fact of the matter is, people don't do level 5's, its not worth it. People don't go to lowsec for the purpose of exploration, at least not enough to populate it. IN TERMS OF RISK VS REWARD, there's nothing of value in lowsec. Last I checked, you can BUY pos fuel off the market. So don't worry, this wouldn't force you to go brave the scawy piwates in lowsec. But it would mean that SOMEONE would have to go there, and go there often, otherwise noone gets pos's. You can't hold lowsec because the rules are different. A different set of rules means you have to play differently. So obviously, 0.0 tactics will not work. If they did, there'd be no point to lowsec whatsoever, and CCP might as well just remove it, and security status, from the game.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.05.03 04:14:00 - [65] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 26/04/2008 03:01:23 Lets say, remove ice fields from BOTH highsec and 0.0? This would REQUIRE the use of lowsec to support 0.0 alliances, would create lowsec alliances, and populate lowsec in general. let the flames begin! I like the idea of no ice in High or 0.0 but at the least take ice and hide it in hidden belts in High sec and still take it out of 0.0 all together. No real reason to make it easy for the "hard core" players in 0.0 as they are hard core.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.03 04:31:00 - [66] Hmm, yea how bout, remove ice from 0.0 completely, put crappy ice in public belts in lowsec, put crappy ice in hidden belts in highsec, and then put a CRAPLOAD of hidden belts in lowsec, with good ice. That'd be fairly balanced.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.03 12:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Harley Gonzo Do you realize what risk *VERSUS* reward means? Yes, do you? You seem to almost understand that people aren't doing L5, explo and whatnot But you're really struggling with the whole RISK thing. Your mind is, well, stuck, on this rewards thing. For those who can be bothered putting up with the crap hole you've turned lowsec into, the rewards are fine as they are. For the rest, who simply cannot be bothered with the endless and constant barrage of elitist **** thrown at them in lowsec, the rewards EQUAL ZERO. They are completely valueless. If you GUARANTEED a HG Snake in lowsec for every rat killed, they still wouldn't come. This is twofold. 1. All the pies would have the Snakes. 2. Snakes would be worth NOTHING. Ok, try to keep up, here is the sentence that ends your argument, it's coming up right now, strap in, because 4th time is the charm. ANY reward you put in lowsec is claimed by the pies until it is worth nothing anymore, thus nobody comes to lowsec because until it worth nothing, the pies will kill EVERYBODY to defend what they suddenly declare to be THEIRS. It really has got absolutely diddely squat to do with REWARDS in lowsec, the RISK is all the problem. The people turned lowsec into the wasteland that it is, not CCP, and there is basically nothing CCP can do in terms of rewards to change the landscape in lowsec, all they could do is changed the rules & risk. Besides, the very last thing you pies want is a place where bears come, because you wouldn't be able to do a thing about them. The rules that enable their presence would end your ability to BLAST HELL OUT OF EVERYTHING THAT MOVES. For evidence, look to highsec. Loads of bears you can't touch. Rewards in HIGHSEC are poor compared to everywhere else, but the RISK sure is a hell of a lot less. And everybody is there. And you're still trying to figure out why.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.03 12:53:00 - [68] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 03/05/2008 12:59:02 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 03/05/2008 12:56:26 Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 03/05/2008 12:56:04 So what you're saying is, If all the ice gets moved to lowsec, Only pirates will have pos's and everyone else will take theirs down? Yea, I suppose you're right, that would happen. <- SARCASM LOLOL Why don't you actually GO to lowsec, you know, man up and fly around for a bit. It doesn't seem like you've been there before. Oh and if you do go, dont bring your t1 active shield tanking laser myrm, it won't go over well. The POINT of this idea is it's something that EVERYBODY NEEDS. So no, pirates wouldn't claim it all, and even if they did, they'd only be claiming it by saying its theirs, there are no game mechanics in lowsec to allow a pirate to lock down a system or a belt and prevent other people from getting to it.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.05.04 12:50:00 - [69] I can see you have zero opportunity to see things any other way and you must resort to meaningless sarcasm to evade dealing with the real issue. You may have the last word. Fire away.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.05.04 15:28:00 - [70] NO-ONE would move to low sec because the ice fields were moved there NO-ONE. Yes i have stated in this thread that high sec dwellers would rather take down their POS's than venture into low sec. You MUST accept this.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.04 15:35:00 - [71] As CSM candidate, I do not believe into nerfing highsec. I do believe in significantly boosting lowsec. Read more in the following threads. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=764063 and http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=763232 and my website http://evajobse.net for my other issues.
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.04 23:35:00 - [72] 1. Fifth Horseman, you started the sarcasm, don't cry when it comes back to you. At least I gave you valid counterpoints along with my sarcasm. Read what I have to say and think about it with as unbiased opinion a carebear can have (yes, i know, it probably wont be that unbiased, but go for it anyway) and then reply with reasons and explanations WHY my idea wouldn't work. 2. ViolenTUK, same goes to you, EXPLAIN TO ME why you think every pos owner in eve will give up their pos? You think BOBs gonna down all their pos's cuz they don't want to go to lowsec? Like I said before, I don't think you realize how important pos's are. Specifically in 0.0. Pos's control territory and allow things like jump bridges, cyno jammers, and system scanners. Major alliances are not going to give these things up just to avoid lowsec.Also, a dysprosium moon makes whoever mines it over 1bil a WEEK. You'd give up a 1bil a week income just to avoid lowsec? 3. Ankh, this is not a CSM advertisement thread. Please go to whatever thread you're supposed to be begging for votes in and do it there. If you actually have input on the topic, then give it, but you've already lost my vote for being an idiot.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2008.05.05 00:56:00 - [73] Originally by: Harley Gonzo 2. ViolenTUK, same goes to you, EXPLAIN TO ME why you think every pos owner in eve will give up their pos? You think BOBs gonna down all their pos's cuz they don't want to go to lowsec? Like I said before, I don't think you realize how important pos's are. Specifically in 0.0. Pos's control territory and allow things like jump bridges, cyno jammers, and system scanners. Major alliances are not going to give these things up just to avoid lowsec.Also, a dysprosium moon makes whoever mines it over 1bil a WEEK. You'd give up a 1bil a week income just to avoid lowsec? I already have explained it to you although with your reference to 0.0 it is clear you were not listening as I was referring to empire space. None of your arguments are valid for empire. Remember that all high security pos's are really useful for in empire is ME research which is very useful but not as important enough to risk the gain from cutting at the most 10 percent mineral value verses the massive risk involved securing low sec. Most importantly you donÆt seem to realize that pos ownership and maintenance is purely by choice and if faced with the massive risk of changing current empire mining and security for empire corps to low security pos's will be dropped. It simply isnÆt worth it. Copying and invention can be accomplished without a pos since empire station slots for invention and copying are cheap and available and this is where the money is.
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT	Posted - 2008.05.05 01:58:00 - [74] The particular part of low-sec we happen to live has no issues with population. The thing is of course that everyone who is there is looking for something to kill. They're not mining, they're not mission running, they're not exploring, they're looking for something to kill. Moving ice from high-sec won't change this. There are too many highly capable pirates in low-sec for any sort of activity there to be profitable, the difficulty is that whatever carebear does for their money, as it now stands, they'll die too often for it to be worth it for them. As plenty of others have pointed out, stop trying to nerf high-sec because you're too lazy to move to a different area or low-sec or 0.0. The only answer here is a change in players behaviour, such as less 24/7 camping of low-sec chokepoints and a more economic view of PvP involving protection rackets, extortion and ransom rather than sheer murder. Its more work to be sure but it'll produce a better low-sec than these constant calls to nerf/boost this/that. Just a thought.
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2008.05.05 05:15:00 - [75] Lets talk aobut players maing low sec better. Hypothetically you could get a bunch of guys together to be anti-pirates. You could promise protection to anybody in whatever systems you chose to try and control. There are pirate corporations who make an attempt at controlling systems and from what I've seen they dont do too poorly. If you could get your message out and have people beleive what you were saying, there would be some number of noobs and more adventurous miners/mission runners/ratters who would come to your system. I dont know how many but there would be some. That would draw pirates from all over. Easy to get pvp , but unless you had a huge number of guys and resources, whatever location you chose would eventually get swamped by pvpers. And the non pvpers would pack up and go home. And if you had enough people to constantly hold a system against heavy intrusions, why arent you out in 0.0 enjoying the pvp there and making tons more money?
Commoner Caldari Emergent Chaos Bedlam Consortium	Posted - 2008.05.05 07:48:00 - [76] Edited by: Commoner on 05/05/2008 07:52:06 Edited by: Commoner on 05/05/2008 07:48:44 The problem is that Ice mining in highsec is mostly/only done by macroers (virtually no profit in it) and because it is extremely easy since ice roids do not deplete, so designing a macro for it is simple. So basically we've got huge alliances living off macroers sitting in highsec belts 23/7. What happens if Ice was removed from highsec? 1) Less POS spam, since running them would become an economic hazzle because of decreased supply and static demand. 2) More expensive T2 items because of invention costs. 3) Pirate warzones as people would tally up to mine that precious ice, Alliances would begin to compete. 4) PEW PEW in lowsec over ice belts. i likes :) The worst pvp'er in EVE :
Ja'kar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.05 10:01:00 - [77] ANY reward you put in lowsec is claimed by the pies until it is worth nothing anymore, thus nobody comes to lowsec because until it worth nothing, the pies will kill EVERYBODY to defend what they suddenly declare to be THEIRS. Sounds just like .0 - A long time ago in eve you uses to get great big mining ops in low sec with minners in apoc's and others in bs and other ships guarding them, thus sometimes they died and other times they lived and the pirates moved on. But then high sec payed out to much isk and risk vs. reward was pushed towards empire. so you see there is little or no real reason for mas of ppl to go into low sec. you do get corps out there with pos and crap and from what I see they do ok Point is if bears had to goto low sec they could learn to adapt to pvp, pay pirates for the time to mine and have a lot more fun doing it. Also I can tell you pirates can be killed! MAFIA Website
IgorIVVasiljevic Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.05 11:31:00 - [78] I was going to write exposition, analyze it and suggest solution,... but I think for those who wanted to understand... I will wrote down just the could-be-solution: Organize the low sec as high sec: The lower the security status of the player is, closer to 0.0 he must live. That way the overskilled, overexperienced pirates and underex. underskilled mindless gatecampers or blobers will have to live close to the dangerous space of powerful alliances. The bigger the criminal, the deeper hole he must find. Those who will stay in higher low-sec systems will have to pick there targets with care and newbies will have a lot more chance to learn to live and have fun (Pvp) in low-sec. Everybody could have more fun. Carebears in low-sec, pirates will have more targets in low sec, alliances would have to divide forces to fend of ˝killers˝ and maybe the fleets would have to be smaller(because they have limited numbers and because the number of good killers(gangs) in their space will become higher. And killers would have as much pew-pew as they could wish. Maybe, Lp.IgorIV
Harley Gonzo	Posted - 2008.05.05 17:16:00 - [79] Edited by: Harley Gonzo on 05/05/2008 17:17:20 Originally by: ViolenTUK Originally by: Harley Gonzo 2. ViolenTUK, same goes to you, EXPLAIN TO ME why you think every pos owner in eve will give up their pos? You think BOBs gonna down all their pos's cuz they don't want to go to lowsec? Like I said before, I don't think you realize how important pos's are. Specifically in 0.0. Pos's control territory and allow things like jump bridges, cyno jammers, and system scanners. Major alliances are not going to give these things up just to avoid lowsec.Also, a dysprosium moon makes whoever mines it over 1bil a WEEK. You'd give up a 1bil a week income just to avoid lowsec? This is frustrating. THE MAIN IDEA OF MY POST IS THAT ICE WILL BE REMOVED FROM 0.0 AS WELL AS HIGHSEC. I frankly couldn't give a crap about why removing ice from highsec wont work, im only saying remove it from highsec so all the 0.0 alliances dont blob highsec even more. Violentuk, commoner, souvera corvus, please rethink my idea, but including 0.0, removing it from highsec is not the main point of this idea, please stop responding to only half the idea. Obviously the idea doesnt work if its only half done. And Igor, i like your idea, but ONLY if you HAD TO BE -10 to enter 0.0. Cuz even if they implement a system like that, there still wont really be any point to being -10. I already have explained it to you although with your reference to 0.0 it is clear you were not listening as I was referring to empire space. None of your arguments are valid for empire. Remember that all high security pos's are really useful for in empire is ME research which is very useful but not as important enough to risk the gain from cutting at the most 10 percent mineral value verses the massive risk involved securing low sec. Most importantly you donÆt seem to realize that pos ownership and maintenance is purely by choice and if faced with the massive risk of changing current empire mining and security for empire corps to low security pos's will be dropped. It simply isnÆt worth it. Copying and invention can be accomplished without a pos since empire station slots for invention and copying are cheap and available and this is where the money is.
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT	Posted - 2008.05.06 00:51:00 - [80] If you moved ice from 0.0 in addition to high-sec and put it all in low-sec I think that we'd see the major alliances moving into 'claiming' low-sec ice systems with everything that entails. We'd see the huge infrastructure arrive along with the assets to take care of it, such as big capital fleets. Instead of seeing an increase in the population of low-sec, I think you'd find that the available space for small-gang PvP/piracy would shrink as the major players would squat in the ice systems and that carebears would recognise that there's even more people who'd shoot them there and stay away. We'd see ice prices rise as the supply dwindled and was largely monopolised by the few alliances with the muscle to control it. High-sec POS'es would become a thing of the past as people gave up and moved onto less painful ways of spending their game time. R&D facilities in Empire/low-sec would see even longer queues,T2 prices would go up and whilst you may have more people in low-sec overall, you'd just have encouraged the entrance of alliance politics and warfare into low-sec which isn't what you're looking for I think. You'd effectively be creating a situation where the major alliances would have a reason to come to low-sec, extending their 0.0 playfield. Some posters have made the 'move all L4's to low-sec' argument. Problem here I think is that carebears will abandon L4's in favour of chaining L3's ad-nauseum. I've heard of this happening already. We cannot force people to PvP if they're dead-set on avoiding it and maintaining a high profit margin. They'll adapt to anything CCP does in this regard and they'd be right to do it. I think that the only way that low-sec will see an increase in population is if pirates recognise that they have to adapt. Sheer murder does not encourage people to come to low-sec. Extortion, racketeering, licensing and farming just might. The other thing that I would do to aid this process is to increase the value of the ore-types in low-sec (if you're in MH, there's no point mining in 0.4-0.1 when you can get much the same ore risk free in 0.6) so that such arrangements become more profitable for all concerned and increase the value of the exploration sites that may be found there. The main thing is that pirate approaches have to change though. Its player-led solution with no hint of a nerf bat.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.05.06 01:50:00 - [81] Harley, i fully agree with the idea of a or several unique low-sec resources, not found anywhere else in space. I don't however think that ice is that resouce since it is such a vital one for such a big part of the game. I'd rather see components/material for new luxury goods and new necessities for new gamemechanics to be found, and only found in low-sec. Boostertechnology or gasmining is, or was supposed to (dont know the details) be exclusive for low-sec but the end product (boosters i guess) isn't demanded to any great extent. The introduction of an unique low-sec resouce, that'd be used for some popular item(s), would introduce dynamic reward for the area. The price of the resource would settle at an equilibrium at which the benefits of extracting it would cover the expected expenses (or increased costs) from risk. And the poeple who say that no-one would move to low-sec if such a resource were to be implemented do not speak for the whole community. Hell, even I would hop in a barge if I could mine a mineral at 200m ISK/ hour.
Newbear	Posted - 2008.05.06 04:58:00 - [82] I say remove ice all together and let towers be powered by the love in our heart. Or a tower reactor that just burns isk streight from your wallet, why bother with ice that we have to buy with isk anyways? Isk and Ice is so similar both 3 letter words. Streamline the process and let the isk sink suck! Click here for my High Security POS Service

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