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Stro3der
Minmatar Phoibe Enterprises The Fifth Race
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Posted - 2008.04.28 12:29:00 -
[1]
The freighters as they are now are just to expensive to warrant me buying it and not using it more than 5% of the time. Current haulers are just to small also, so i think whats needed is a middle ground somewhere.
Cant even haul 1 BS in an indy Combat: Your Large Spirits Bottle II strikes Sanshas Pointy Cruiser perfectly, opening a can of whoopass for wtfomg*hic*burp*pwned damage ! |
Jorroo
Gallente the united
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Posted - 2008.04.28 12:30:00 -
[2]
think theres a reason for that
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adriaans
Amarr Ascendant Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.28 12:50:00 -
[3]
agreed, there should be something to fill the gap -sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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AppleBanana
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Posted - 2008.04.28 13:16:00 -
[4]
some sorta giant ibis |
Ordon Gundar
Caldari Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.28 14:06:00 -
[5]
The difference in cargo volume between transport and freighter is somewhat rediculous. We definitely need a middle tier ship. It would make NPC trading more profitable, because at the moment you are still limited by the 3-4000 cargo volume of the industrial ships.
They need to create a "regional indy" of about 50,000 metres cubed cargo space, in my opinion.
"Stay Small..Fly Fast..Keep Your Ship" - Ordon Gundar - Low Sec Survivalist & CEO of Danger Zone Enterprises |
000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.04.28 15:16:00 -
[6]
I'd love to see a ship between the haulers and the freighters, call the cargovessels or whatever, give them a base of 50K with say 5 or 10% cargo increase per level, or just a base figure of 100k and no cargo bonus, slotlayout should be 1/2/2
could also give it some restrictions just like the freighters so they can't replace the haulers.
Not that i can't afford to get me a freighter but i have no use for one atm, i would have more use for a cargovessel like this though. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Melinda Bettin
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Posted - 2008.04.28 16:49:00 -
[7]
This topic has been done to death a few thousand times before this.
Deep space transports full set of expanders in lows and giant secure containers hover around 30-35k room of space. Add in t2 cargo rigs and you can bump up your space to 50k m3 (impel).
It's true that this is partitioned space, and the rig option cost approaches that of a freighter. However, the benefit of getting into warp in about 10 seconds and warping at 3AU is fantastic as any freighter captain will tell you. If you remove all cans you can still fit a BC or any Indy in your hold with room to spare. If you're moving BS's or really most any other ship, use a carrier or freighter.
And finally, what you're talking about is a ship that bridges the gap between freighter and Indy. Well after years of posts like this CCP delivered the jump freighter. How ironic that it is more, not less expensive than a freighter.
With all these options and you can't find something that suits your needs is a little sad. If your real complaint is you can't afford these ships then perhaps the newb help forum or market discussion forum are more appropriate for you to read on how to make money in eve.
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Spud Gunn
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Posted - 2008.04.28 18:10:00 -
[8]
I don't think it's a cost issue as much as a proportion issue. Industrials range from about 3000 to 30,000 M3. You can pimp one out to a bit more than that, but not massively. But the next step up is to freighters, which are a whole order of magnitude bigger again, and masively over the top if all you're wanting to do is haul something a little bit bigger - like, 100k M3 or so.
Problem is, other than the cost, in terms of skills a freighter is already only a few days extra on top of a maxed-out industrial. Which would leave you with the same problem that Covetors have vs. Hulks - by the time you can use them, you're so close to the next step up that it's not worth bothering with them. You wouldn't realistically be able to have an "industrial plus" without its skill requirements being so close to a freighter that it appeals only to people who can't afford a freighter, and so as not to make transport ships completely obsolete it would still have to be made bloody useless outside of highsec. Result being that almost nobody would bother using them.
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Anubis Xian
Vertigo One
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Posted - 2008.04.28 18:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Anubis Xian on 28/04/2008 18:44:46 Edited by: Anubis Xian on 28/04/2008 18:44:30 Light Freighters are not a new idea.
Infact: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=200035
I made that topic before I sold that character.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Tac Ginaz
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Posted - 2008.04.28 18:45:00 -
[10]
What is needed is a 'Cargo Ship'.
Hauler = lowest cargo T2 Haulers = lowest cargo capacity BUT safest to haul stuff in -or- better cargo capacity than hauler but just as vulnerable as the T1 version.
Cargo Ship= 50k m3 -> 100k M3 cargo hold, high mass, very slow, low armor, low hull, high shield capacity (20k shields), 2 hislot (no turret or missile), 3 midslot, 2 lowslot.
Merchant Ship= 20k-70k M3; same as cargo ship in slot/speed/armor/shield wise; Short range Jump capability, Empire Jump capable via Gate selection (ship flies to a gate, clicks on the flying TV, is shown map, selects gate he wants to jump to, JUMPS using the jump drive (aka can jump about 5 gates max per jump).
Freighter = Highest cargo capacity. Jump Freighter = 2nd highest cargo capacity, 'fastest' mass transport around.
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.28 20:31:00 -
[11]
There is a very good reason why there is no hauler between the t2 indies and freighters, and thats exactly the reason why you would want them to be there, to make life easy. Eve is not easy, there is no easy money in eve (not in empire at least). Any ship that will get your isk/hr up will attract more people to the same profession just to get you back to the 10m/hr you are supposed to earn in empire (or 20m if you work hard for it, like running missions).
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Zara Torbe
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Posted - 2008.04.28 20:40:00 -
[12]
50k already available at hauler level... ?
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Zara Torbe
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Posted - 2008.04.28 20:55:00 -
[13]
49,464 m3 available with max skills, rigs on an Occator ?
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.04.29 01:55:00 -
[14]
Jump Freighter.
Oh sorry, cost?
Rigged Impel.
Seriously, there is no decent argument for this. "I want to save a trip" is not acceptable, and BS are not supposed to fit into haulers.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.04.29 02:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zara Torbe 49,464 m3 available with max skills, rigs on an Occator ?
No. Iteron V. The iteron V has a larger basic cargohold and 3 rig slots, thus the Iteron out-hauls the Gallente deep space transport.
On the other hand the max-expanded Iteron V is made of paper, so I wouldn't transport any valuable stuff in it (since you can reliably kill it with a T1 fitted battlecruiser). Good for Trit/pye/mex hauling I guess? ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Nigal Tufnel
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.29 04:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Stefan F There is a very good reason why there is no hauler between the t2 indies and freighters, and thats exactly the reason why you would want them to be there, to make life easy. Eve is not easy, there is no easy money in eve (not in empire at least). Any ship that will get your isk/hr up will attract more people to the same profession just to get you back to the 10m/hr you are supposed to earn in empire (or 20m if you work hard for it, like running missions).
This is pretty much why I am guessing. Balance. If it was easier and cheaper to move the mid sized loads it would centralize the game more. Would make it easier to transport to Jita and do your buying and selling there. We don't want that do we? Want to have a reason to be buying and selling in other parts of the galaxy.
On the other hand would be nice to have a ship to move all my crap in.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.29 05:04:00 -
[17]
I think it would be really funny to cut the freighters down to about 100-150k m3 and introduce a new class called 'superfreighters' the size of the current ones. Then create a whole new skillbook you need for the big ones. Freighters are oversized tbh, especially now that they can cyno jump.
Yes, there would be badgerloads of carebear tears. What's wrong with that? --- I'm looking for a good 0.0 corp to join. |
Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.29 08:26:00 -
[18]
The gap is huge between industrial ships and freightors and there's really no justification for it. A middle-of-the-road ship would be incredibly useful, and I think pretty much anyone that's not filling up their freighter with every trip would benefit from having a mid-sized ship that's slightly faster than a freighter.
To the norb that said 'dur eve isn't easy', this has nothing to do with making the game easy. The ship would still cost money, it would still get blown up, it would still be slower than an industrial by a good margin. There could only be one ship type in the game, would that make it hard? No, the game would be boring. If all we could fly was a rifter... hm, bad example, as then the game would be badass. The point is, adding a type of ship has nothing to do with game difficulty.
I'd personally love to see more ships added for the carebears. I'm not pro-carebear in the sense that I love seeing high sec packed with ice miners and low sec a deserted wasteland. However, I see it as a bit problematic that industrials and miners really are limited in their ship choices, i.e. you can train a hulk in a month and change and then that's it. And it's just as limited for haulers. Wanna haul a lot? Freighter. Wanna haul a little? Iteron (or equivalent). The problem atm is that if you wanna haul, say, 75k m3, you are forced to go into the 'haul a lot' category, even though freighters are built for hauling way more than 75k m3.
In short: It'd be nice to see more options added, especially some mid-sized haulers. I support the addition of the super-ibis.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.04.29 08:31:00 -
[19]
Quote: This is pretty much why I am guessing. Balance. If it was easier and cheaper to move the mid sized loads it would centralize the game more. Would make it easier to transport to Jita and do your buying and selling there. We don't want that do we? Want to have a reason to be buying and selling in other parts of the galaxy.
Yeah, a mid-sized hauler would be nice, but it would making moving stuff too easy and just mean more people going to Jita. The game needs more smaller hubs and more stuff available outside Jita, with people producing and selling in situ rather than just dumping it in Jita.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.29 13:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Quote: This is pretty much why I am guessing. Balance. If it was easier and cheaper to move the mid sized loads it would centralize the game more. Would make it easier to transport to Jita and do your buying and selling there. We don't want that do we? Want to have a reason to be buying and selling in other parts of the galaxy.
Yeah, a mid-sized hauler would be nice, but it would making moving stuff too easy and just mean more people going to Jita. The game needs more smaller hubs and more stuff available outside Jita, with people producing and selling in situ rather than just dumping it in Jita.
The analogy to missions would be imagine we only have frigates and battleships in the game right now. For argument's sake, say you can't do a level 2 or 3 in a frigate, it's impossible (again, pretend ). So you're forced to use a battleship for level 2 and 3 missions. It's not a good fit. A cheaper and faster mid-sized ship would be a much better fit. Again, it's not that you CAN'T do it in a battleship, or to move away from the analogy, it's not that you can't enter Jita with a freighter. It's just that it's a clumsy choice for hauling, say, 75k m3 worth of cargo.
Saying that a mid-sized hauler would encourage Jita traffic would make sense IF freighters couldn't go to Jita. But at the moment, both freighters and jump freighters can and do enter Jita. A mid-sized hauler would simply provide a better fit for the job of mid-sized hauling. Since freighters can already go there, this argument holds no water. Imagine the situation where someone has 150k m3 loot and a freighter, but deems it not worth taking to Jita and decides to sell it there. It's hard to imagine the situation where that same person would find it worth making the trip to Jita if he only had a slightly faster/cheaper hauling ship instead. Regardless, even if he did sell his loot in that small hub, it would likely be to a buy order of someone who will collect it in bulk and then haul it all to Jita anyways.
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Aguire Tufnel
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:55:00 -
[21]
True freighters can go to Jita. But how big of a pain is that. If you have a choice between 40 jumps in a freighter or selling your stuff local what are you going to choose? Some people are going to haul to Jita no matter what. But some are going to go to the closest hub.
But on the other hand you can move your stuff a lot quicker and a decent amount your going to do the longer trip to Jita. Easy hauling will hurt local markets and centralize hubs like Jita. A cheaper med size hauler will encourage miners to take there ore there to sell. Rather than sell locally and build locally.
I agree in a 'real' galaxy a med sized hauler makes sense. But for balance it would just force the markets more into one area of the universe.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.29 16:07:00 -
[22]
The difference is pretty absurdly large. Ridiculously so. There should be an intermediate step in between industirals and freighters for the budding industrial pilot, hauler, courier runner etc.
To put the discrepency in terms combat pilots might empathize with, it would be as if we had no combat ships in between the destroyer and the carrier.
We go from the 1 mill industrial to the 1 bill freighter.
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Chomapuraku
Caldari Templar Republic R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.29 18:06:00 -
[23]
the devs very deliberately make it so there's a big gap between indies and freighters. they realized that if there was something in-between, it would be too easy to cart stuff around and would bork all of the risk/effort/reward ratios regarding hauling.
if you want to cart ships to combat zone, fly a carrier if you want to haul bulk mods, pos fuel, materials, and ships, fly a freighter with a scout (and maybe escort, if it's a big op) if you want to fly relatively large amounts of important bulk cargo around quickly, use a jump freighter if you need to haul your ore, move mods or small ships, or move small amounts of materials or fuel, use an indy or transport
CCP has given you lots of options for hauling your stuff, each one of which has its own set of risks, limitations, liabilities, and capabilities. in short, each one of their haulers has a specific role, and the one-size-fits-all hauler you guys are suggesting is basically an easy button that obviates the need for all of the other ones in most scenarios. eve doesn't work like that.
Originally by: Crimson11 Crimson11: What the hell happened?
WarGod: Some breaking occurred, the Alt Key was involved, that's about all we know.
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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.04.29 18:41:00 -
[24]
As long as it can be suicide ganked, i'm happy with a larger hauler
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