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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:09:00 -
[1]
I would like to first state that since I am biased towards toast and bagels, favorably, that this post will reflect that bias. My favorite little toaster...the Augoror...is in need of some help. This little toaster oven is in need of review, and with that in mind I will be comparing it to its brethren from the other races, Tier 1 cruisers.
NOTE: The bonuses I feel are appropriate for all the ships considering their T2 counterparts. They will not be the prime focus but in the case of the Scimitar and Augoror they will be mentioned
Augoror 4/2/5 Slots 3 Turrets 0 Launchers 5m3 Dronebay 225 CPU 475 Grid
Osprey 4/4/3 Slots 3 Turrets 2 Launchers 20m3 Dronebay 275 CPU 475 Grid
Exequror 4/4/3 Slots 4 Turrets 0 Launchers 40m3 Dronebay 250 CPU 500 Grid
Scythe 5/3/3 Slots 3 Turrets 2 Launchers 5m3 Drone Bay 225 CPU 425 Grid
Is it just more or is there an extreme unbalance? Are we led to believe that the armor hit point bonus per level is an acceptable trade off for the differences between the ships?
In terms of DPS it is obvious that the Augoror lacks in this department in any sense of the word. Considering its innate tanking bonus any possibility of DPS in the lows is overwhelmed by the desire and prioritizing of optimum tanking ability. As a makeshift tackler the Augoror is severely lacking as well with a mere 2 mid slots.
I enjoy using this ship for novelty purposes. I know if I wanted to fit a BETTER bait ship I need only hop in an exequror, osprey, or scythe. When it comes to articulating my feelings about this ship I do not fare well. I can not put out everything I see about this ship into words other than that I feel this is the neglected 3rd child of a low SES family who comes from an alcoholic father. ---
Put in space whales!
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Warlord Cybrid
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:37:00 -
[2]
yes i wish the aug. would become useful and maybe on par with other amarr ships.
Amarr does have the inqui which favors "thick armor with missles" according to the ships history it was designed to bring versatility to amarr with a bit of caldari design.
I wouldn't mind seeing it being turned into maybe an anti ceptor missle boat? maybe give it a side bonus to missle ROF. or just Assualt missle launcher ROF. Nothing too drastic but that alone should be decent enough. Maybe 10% bonus to armor and 5% bonus to missle velocity(i would like 10% bonus to missle speed but i can imagine all sorts of QQ from caldari players). It would be the big brother to the inqui. frig.
Or if anything... drop the armor bonus by 5% and add a 10% bonus to laser optimal and turn it into a bootleg sniper. But the role seems more fit for the anti frig work missle boat. Thick armor, light missle spaming, etc... and would give the pilot the ability to ditch the disruptor/web requirement and just carry a disruptor and a MWD.
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Valenthra
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:44:00 -
[3]
I haven't use the Auguror myself so i should perhaps don't speak but looking at the bonuses... It's a fine T1 support cruiser as intended???
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:47:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven but in the case of the Scimitar and Augoror they will be mentioned
You aren't seriously comparing a Tier1 T1 cruiser to a T2 logistics ship?
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Faife
Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:56:00 -
[5]
You're right that there is an imbalance. You're wrong about what it is since your numbers clearly lead to conclusion only: the Scythe is the worst of the bunch.
Nerf Augoror. Boost Scythe.
HTH, HAND.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.29 15:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lisento Slaven but in the case of the Scimitar and Augoror they will be mentioned
You aren't seriously comparing a Tier1 T1 cruiser to a T2 logistics ship?
-Liang
Was a typo...meant the Scythe...so no, I was not seriously comparing the Tier 1 T1 to T2 ---
Put in space whales!
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.29 16:06:00 -
[7]
It really doesn't need a boost, but 2 launcher slots would be nice. _
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Ruciza
Minmatar The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.04.29 16:09:00 -
[8]
1600mm RT 2x EANM II DCU II RCU II
Cap Recharger II Balmer Series TD
2x Medium Energy Transfer Array II Auto-Targeting System I (not active) Medium Remote Armor Repairer System (offline)
Small armor repair drone
40k EHP (with some armored warfare skills)
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.29 19:43:00 -
[9]
So I take it the fact that the Augoror is unacceptably incapable of acting outside of its role of "tank damage and give cap" where as all the other ships have some versatility to at least entertain the idea of doing something else (osprey mining bait in low-sec, Exequror neut platform/mini hauler, scythe can...well I guess it could support a gang, not counting the fact that osprey and exequror can actually dish out a nice chunk of damage) does not have any weight?
How many of these ships do people see in EVE? How many of these bagel creating ships are used? ---
Put in space whales!
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Hana Lena
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:30:00 -
[10]
W8 the Amar HAVE T1 Cruisers? I know bout the T2 but T1 wow news to me.... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ADHD + Dyslexia = BAD SPELLING! Proud to be in the FNA (for over a year) and not be a alt!
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven So I take it the fact that the Augoror is unacceptably incapable of acting outside of its role of "tank damage and give cap" where as all the other ships have some versatility to at least entertain the idea of doing something else (osprey mining bait in low-sec, Exequror neut platform/mini hauler, scythe can...well I guess it could support a gang, not counting the fact that osprey and exequror can actually dish out a nice chunk of damage) does not have any weight?
How many of these ships do people see in EVE? How many of these bagel creating ships are used?
These are the valid uses for these ships: Osprey- POS repping. No kidding. Augoror- POSprey / Basilisk Feeders (For POS repping...) Exequeror- Famous mission salvager [Just use a BS for repping POS armor] Scythe- ..... bait maybe?
-Liang
--
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hana Lena W8 the Amar HAVE T1 Cruisers? I know bout the T2 but T1 wow news to me....
The obvious troll is obvious. It may not be the best cruiser lineup (because God knows its not!), but consider the Maller and Arbitrator.
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.29 22:35:00 -
[13]
Maller? meh. Quite useless for anything but level 2s with a durramaller setup.
Arbi? Yes, the ONLY t1 cruiser i feel that has any merit in the Amarr cruiser lineup.
CCP, please look at amarr cruisers in the next 'boost patch'...
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.29 22:56:00 -
[14]
The TECH 1 cruisers for Amarr lineup are not what this thread is concerned with so not to derail the thread any further - I would like to point out that we're referring to the TIER 1 not tech 1. The Augoror in comparison to other races ships is simply not worth existing in its current state in my opinion.
Removing turrets all together and giving it a 20% armor bonus per level would be cool to me. Take off a high-slot and put it to the mid slot. ---
Put in space whales!
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Darth Kenzie
Amarr Ganja Labs Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:03:00 -
[15]
Not to derail... but i personally think the amarr tec1 cruiser line up is middle of the road. It isn't the best, its far from the worst. (I have never understood why people don't like the omen.)
Anyways the Augoror is fine. It can transfer cap and absorb some punishment. Most of the tec1 suport cruisers are similarly confined to very limited use (as has been noted). I will admit its a bit less versital then the rest... but thats kinda how the Amarr roll.
The only boost I think you could make a case for is a moderate boost in pg so it could fit beams or a better passive tank, consider it a make up for its lack of launchers. Anyways thats my 2 isk ------- I am the King of Rome and above grammar. |
Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:04:00 -
[16]
Augorer works fine as a supplement to a pos shooting crew (geddon, mega, rokh) none of the tier 1 cruisers are really fantastic as it stands their role is a niche support role that few people are interested in, but I remember an augorer saving me once when I was in a geddon shooting a pos and the guns were manned, it topped up my cap enough for me to mwd out of range and warp.
I've also used one for griefing outside the station in rens where there is always fighting going on, by capping up people who were fighting outside the station giving them much hardier tanks for lolz
anyway it has its roles and it fills them nicely imho.
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Ortos
Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:12:00 -
[17]
How come the Osprey is in there? :P
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ortos How come the Osprey is in there? :P
You mean why is it mentioned? It's a tier 1 cruiser (level 1 cruiser required). This is a comparison of the Augoror towards tier 1 cruisers of other races. ---
Put in space whales!
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lance Fighter Maller? meh. Quite useless for anything but level 2s with a durramaller setup.
Arbi? Yes, the ONLY t1 cruiser i feel that has any merit in the Amarr cruiser lineup.
CCP, please look at amarr cruisers in the next 'boost patch'...
Good/Excellent cruisers (+2): Arbitrator Blackbird Vexor Thorax Rupture Stabber
Passable cruisers: +1 Maller Osprey Caracal Moa
Poor cruisers: -1 Omen
Useless cruisers: -2 Augoror Exequror Celestis Scythe Bellicose
So by this list: Amarr 2 + 1 - 1 - 2 = 0 Caldari: 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 Gallente: 2 + 2 - 2 - 2 = 0 Minmatar: 2 + 2 - 2 - 2 = 0
Meh, I don't care. Boost them til they Pwn Face and there's no other race worth flying.
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Chelone
Stone Shadow Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:21:00 -
[20]
Scythe is useless? They took away its ability to fit mining lasers?
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chelone Scythe is useless? They took away its ability to fit mining lasers?
Everything thats not amarr is useless. True story!
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Twin blade
Minmatar The Triangle
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:43:00 -
[22]
There all good.
Amarr High HP and cap trans Gallent Cargo/salvage Caldari mining/shield logstic's Minmatar Mining/Useless bonus to tracking links
If you look at them you see the scythe is lacking but its kind of fast and light making it simi ok in a nano fit i guess. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wu Jiun Everything thats not amarr is useless. True story!
Actually, I was really surprised to discover that I think all of the caldari cruisers are really passable. I couldn't really decide whether or not the Omen was truly terrible or simply poor either.
In the end, I decided it was merely poor... but I'd be willing to give Amarr a -0.5.
I'm surprised you didn't make an argument about the area under the curve... but I suppose that would really be my job. ;-)
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.04.30 00:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven So I take it the fact that the Augoror is unacceptably incapable of acting outside of its role of "tank damage and give cap" where as all the other ships have some versatility to at least entertain the idea of doing something else (osprey mining bait in low-sec, Exequror neut platform/mini hauler, scythe can...well I guess it could support a gang, not counting the fact that osprey and exequror can actually dish out a nice chunk of damage) does not have any weight?
I ENJOY taking a ship and doing things different with them. The Augoror screams "Use me to screw people over!" in its concept but at the same time an Osprey, Exequror, or even the Scythe are better off. If we step it up to Tier 2 cruiser the Bellicose has the same screaming effect.
Let me put it this way. If battlecruisers, battleships, and all tier2/3 cruisers were erased from EVE and so were all the T2 ships...everyone would be screaming for the "old warhorse" to be boosted because it sucks horribly. ---
Put in space whales!
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Let me put it this way. If battlecruisers, battleships, and all tier2/3 cruisers were erased from EVE and so were all the T2 ships...everyone would be screaming for the "old warhorse" to be boosted because it sucks horribly.
The "tier" system as a whole is a pretty bad idea. Boost all the frigs/cruisers to essentially be Tier 3. This is especially important as people start off with Frig 4 these days, and can be in a "viable" Tier 3 cruiser in under a week.
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Actually, I was really surprised to discover that I think all of the caldari cruisers are really passable. I couldn't really decide whether or not the Omen was truly terrible or simply poor either.
The Omen is poor not totally useless. Its a bit meh you have to pretty much not tank it at all if you want to do damage. But its at least not useless anymore. As a cheap throwaway dmg support it works. Not stellar but hey. Arbi is indeed excellent ship so to that extent i agree.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I'm surprised you didn't make an argument about the area under the curve... but I suppose that would really be my job. ;-) -Liang
What do you mean by that? I only know that concept from maths. And you really don't want to get me started on that cause i am a geek.
I was just poking a bit fun at you wasn't meant to be contraversial tbh. I am pretty happy with my amarr ships as they are. Certainly many ships could see improvements (like omen, maller, proph) etc. Caldari and amarr have seen some serious improvements lately and both have top ranking ships in nearly all classes though. The t1 cruisers aren't amarrs strong point i guess we agree on that but they have others to make up for it. Caldari i don't fly much tbh (apart from a little bb/falcon/drake) but i think they can't complain much either.
So other races may have more pressing issues atm and maybe its their time to get some love(and yeah by that i mean your precious minnies:).
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.30 01:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Twin blade There all good.
Amarr High HP and cap trans Gallent Cargo/salvage Caldari mining/shield logstic's Minmatar Mining/Useless bonus to tracking links
If you look at them you see the scythe is lacking but its kind of fast and light making it simi ok in a nano fit i guess.
HA! Tracking links useless, thats a good one. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.04.30 06:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lance Fighter Maller? meh. Quite useless for anything but level 2s with a durramaller setup.
Arbi? Yes, the ONLY t1 cruiser i feel that has any merit in the Amarr cruiser lineup.
CCP, please look at amarr cruisers in the next 'boost patch'...
Good/Excellent cruisers (+2): Arbitrator Blackbird Vexor Thorax Rupture Stabber
Passable cruisers: +1 Maller Osprey Caracal Moa
Poor cruisers: -1 Omen
Useless cruisers: -2 Augoror Exequror Celestis Scythe Bellicose
So by this list: Amarr 2 + 1 - 1 - 2 = 0 Caldari: 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 Gallente: 2 + 2 - 2 - 2 = 0 Minmatar: 2 + 2 - 2 - 2 = 0
Meh, I don't care. Boost them til they Pwn Face and there's no other race worth flying.
-Liang
Maller and omen should be switched. You can nano an omen quite nicely. And the bellicose is not a -2 cruiser. Nice drone bay, good speed, many ways to fit it.
Scythe is a damn good t1 mining ship, it's what got me started in eve.
Maller is hands down the toughest cruiser, not sure what kind of grade to give it. Osprey and moa are much worse then the omen. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Blutreiter
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.04.30 14:30:00 -
[29]
Typical amarr design favours lowslots, highslots and powergrid. So I don't care much about medslots, but the Augoror falls short on PG and fitting compared to the other cruisers.
If you fit any of those cruisers for a support role, the Augoror severely lacks any offensive capabilities, since the cap transfers take the highslots and the Augoror only has space for a single scout drone. Every other t1 logistic cruiser outperforms the Augoror here as a valuable gangasset.
In my opinion, the dronebay should at least be increased to 15 m^3 to give this ship some much needed flexibility.
Also a nice bonus would be a fitting requirements reduction for capacitor batteries, now that would be unique.
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up
Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.04.30 16:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Let me put it this way. If battlecruisers, battleships, and all tier2/3 cruisers were erased from EVE and so were all the T2 ships...everyone would be screaming for the "old warhorse" to be boosted because it sucks horribly.
The "tier" system as a whole is a pretty bad idea. Boost all the frigs/cruisers to essentially be Tier 3. This is especially important as people start off with Frig 4 these days, and can be in a "viable" Tier 3 cruiser in under a week.
-Liang
blast of power: to actually make this possible there needs to be 3 typs of every Tech 1 ship, the tier 1,2 and 3 version. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions!
I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them. |
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