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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.30 16:29:00 -
[1]
General question to other voters out there - are you discussing your choice of CSM candidate with other players and campaigning for them? Are discussions going on within your corp about who to vote for? What's the vibe out there about this whole thing?
Just trying to get a feel for what the interest level in this is outside the forums and how people are discussing the candidates.
(I assume this kind of question is okay for this forum, as it pertains to the CSM election - please remove it if not)
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.04.30 16:39:00 -
[2]
Not yet but I'll be sure to make my choices known on our site once I've gotten the full scope of the candidates down.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.30 16:59:00 -
[3]
I still have to find that one candidate that I really like above all the others
1|2|3|4|5. |
Slickdrac
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:21:00 -
[4]
The more I read, the more I'm losing faith in the CSM. Not because of the candidates, there are definitely good ones, there's definitely bad ones too (the ones that I haven't seen really making much of an effort at all). I'm losing faith because it's the crappy ones who are going to get the support. This game has become infested with little kids who are too lazy to understand that this isn't WoW, there's risk involved in this game and you have to actually invest time in it.
If the devs didn't mean for it to be, why does everything in this game take so long to do? Put up a POS, take sov of a system, train (properly) to fly a ship, I could keep going, but we all know (anyone's who's played for a while) that things take more time in this game than in others. I know that if I'm not going to play for more than an hour, I'm just gonna sit in the station and chat, or do some simple things.
Okay, that was a bit of a derail, back to my original point. The people who are so active in responding and campaigning for themselves make a lot of good points and demonstrate that they *gasp* understand how the game works for the most part, and how it's meant to be played. Gee, that's sure horrible, I know I want Mr. three-weeks-old-and-doesn't-understand-that-if-someone-is-blinking-red-you-can-shoot-him to be on the CSM At yet, for all their great posts, they make one bad one, or say one thing you don't like, and all of a sudden, "welp, can't vote for him, I like his 123 things he said I agree with, but that one there I don't, so screw em."
This has been more and more the mindset of people on these forums, which is probably why the Devs don't like to come round these parts too much anymore, despite all they've done fixing things, and boosting and adding things, they nerfed your one thing, or your one ship, and even if it was a bad nerf, taken too far, you ignore anything the devs have done in the last few months, and you put their heads on a pike for that one single thing.
Also, judging someone based off what they are, rather than what they say. Biggest thing I've seen with that, obviously, people not voting for any of the Goons. I'm glad you people can't see beyond the ticker and actually READ what they are typing. Just look at Goum's posting history, he's always trying to improve things thru thought out, well constructed posts with points of what's wrong, why it's wrong, what to do to fix it, and why that would be the right fix, and if applicable, what else it would effect. Yet, people just say, oh, Goon.../ignore. It's pretty much being racist. You're trying to say that there's 5000 goons, and every last one of them is the same? Anyone who thinks that, is an idiot, not because you're not a goon, but because your intelligence is on par with a monkey, go fling poo elsewhere.
Same thing goes with the "carebear" candidates. Don't we need a diverse bunch? I'd rather have someone who does missions explaining why the mission runners are having a problem with x, rather than Commander 0.0 leading the capital fleets against POSes trying to explain it, and vise versa. Judge people on their knowledge of the game, that's what they are going to do, is to bring their expertise in the game and take the opinions of the masses, and explain why, or why not, it's broke, and ways to fix it.
But, because of people being completely ignorant of the purpose of the CSM, ignorant of why each person would be good for the CSM, and ignorant of what the game is meant to be. I see this project failing because people will vote against anyone they don't agree with, and go with the people that haven't done any campaigning, maybe for fear of getting any of the cliques of this game to rise against them for ridiculously **** poor reasons
Well, that turned into a bit of a rant, but it's just ****ing me off how stupid people are getting. I suck at forums |
Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.04.30 17:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kelsin on 30/04/2008 17:30:59
Originally by: Slickdrac Well, that turned into a bit of a rant, but it's just ****ing me off how stupid people are getting.
No prob Slick, different viewpoints are good - I'm just trying to get a feel on how different voters are seeing this, thanks for the input.
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Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.30 18:36:00 -
[6]
Like Akita T, I have still not found a candidate to get behindą I have been both impressed and unimpressedą
I read the Rant posted by Slickdrac and tend to agree that it was initially wrong of me to start out by eliminating all goonsą but when we look at 60+ candidates we need to winnow away some to start with just for the sheer numbers, eliminating some due to their associations is a viable method of thisą so perhaps instead of eliminating Goons because they are goons, I should only eliminate the goons that seem to act like goonsą
I read another thread that asked about alts, some freely admitted to their alts, others bristled at this requestą my first impression was they had something to hideą I have not really changed that opinion yet, but in a game that prides itself on any excuse to take revenge on some unsuspecting player gets top marks, keeping oneself safe to play may not be a bad ideaą but again, this goes to association, just because a Candidate has no association with disreputable people, does not mean Candidate Alt is not Disreputable Person #1.
I asked a few questions on threads the Candidates startedą they donĘt get answered or replied toą even if it was ōThat idea sucks and here is whyąö itĘs better then nothingą
I started my own thread on this the CSM forum and got 2 replies that amounted to 4 lines and little if any informationą
I look and see 19 [CSM Candidate] threads hereą perhaps this means the rest are not worthy of considerationą
Perhaps I should do like Talkuth Rel and formulate a generic post stick it in each candidate thread, just to see if I can get a reply that wayą but then I can not expect interplay between candidates beyond perhaps Goumindong and Jade Constantine who have been doing a good number on each otherą
Once I have decided whom I will support, then I will decide if I will or will not campaign for themą I will make my choice known to my corp as I expect they will follow my choice.
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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BillyBong2
Amarr COLD-Wing The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.04.30 20:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Slickdrac Good post
People are going to lump the candidate in with his alliance naturally. Goum has the deck stacked against him for that singular reason. I agree with you in that line of thinking that it is unfortunate that is a line of thinking, however, it is one I can understand.
http://coldwing.100luz.com.ar/board/ |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.05.01 17:15:00 -
[8]
Discussing it?
Nobody in my Corp even knows about it!
I think that the forum dwellers often forget what an incredibley small percentage of players they actually represent. Im personally very dissappointed with the lack of support CCP has provided to the CSM process - this very forum only coming about through continued posts elsewhere demanding it when, in reality, it should have been set up from the get go.
Either CCP dont actually care, or have gone off the idea and are rather hoping it'll die a miserable death or they simply didnt appreciate how much effort and interest the CSM candidates would put into getting involved - and how divorced the general player base are from that process.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cailais Discussing it?
Nobody in my Corp even knows about it!
I think that the forum dwellers often forget what an incredibley small percentage of players they actually represent. Im personally very dissappointed with the lack of support CCP has provided to the CSM process - this very forum only coming about through continued posts elsewhere demanding it when, in reality, it should have been set up from the get go.
Either CCP dont actually care, or have gone off the idea and are rather hoping it'll die a miserable death or they simply didnt appreciate how much effort and interest the CSM candidates would put into getting involved - and how divorced the general player base are from that process.
C.
I totally agree with you here.
If you look at the "read" count of many of the threads in the CSM forum they are quite pitifully small when you consider there are circa 200,000 accounts, roughly 50% as alts giving circa 100,000 playing people.
An idea would be if CCP should change the game login message from the fairly old RMT trading dev blog link to a link and note about the CSM Forum.
Wrangler and crowd.. any chance of this happening please?
EvE blogspace, free! Max Torps CSM Candidate |
Slickdrac
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:42:00 -
[10]
Who do you think is going to be doing the voting tho? And for the corps/allainces who don't have a candidate to vote for, that vote anyway, they'll be asking their friends who do frequent the forums who's good. There's gonna be 4 kinds of voters.
1. Alliance/corp voting for their guys 2. Forum posters 3. friends of forum posters 4. I dun clik bocks wit leters nxt 2 it I suck at forums |
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Slickdrac Who do you think is going to be doing the voting tho? And for the corps/allainces who don't have a candidate to vote for, that vote anyway, they'll be asking their friends who do frequent the forums who's good. There's gonna be 4 kinds of voters.
1. Alliance/corp voting for their guys 2. Forum posters 3. friends of forum posters 4. I dun clik bocks wit leters nxt 2 it
Yeah the politico in me cannot wait to see the numbers, it will be very interesting to see what the turnout is and how it breaks down.
The one thing I'm really curious about is whether there's any in-game campaigning going on, or whether it's happening almost exclusively outside the game.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.01 18:59:00 -
[12]
Honestly, I'm having a very hard time deciding who to support.
I can easily list of 6 or 7 candidates who have made logical, consistent, and well-supported arguments even if I don't agree with all of them. At this point it may come down to a dice role assuming they don't change the voting system.
As such I can't campaign for anybody. ---------------- Tarminic - 35 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Slickdrac
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.01 19:03:00 -
[13]
I haven't been playing so much lately, so I don't know if they have or not, but there should be news articles and ingame things sent to players so they all know about this CSM thing, because out of the 10 people I normally chat with everyday, only 2 of them knew anything about the CSM
The word needs to be spread.
Off-topic: I still have 2 extra votes available from my accounts, Tar, I'd be happy to help I suck at forums |
Vox Pop
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Posted - 2008.05.02 07:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tarminic Honestly, I'm having a very hard time deciding who to support.
I can easily list of 6 or 7 candidates who have made logical, consistent, and well-supported arguments even if I don't agree with all of them. At this point it may come down to a dice role assuming they don't change the voting system.
As such I can't campaign for anybody.
Tarminic, this remark of yours touches the base of my ideas on the CSM as well. (And on politics outside EVE!)
The problem is:
- Chances are there's not one candidate whose ideas map 100% to your own ideas.
- Chances are issues are going to be raised in the CSM on which a candidate hasn't expressed her/his views during the voting period.
CCP has the technology to get player input and feedback, to prioritise issues through public votes. Why put a body like the CSM in between the EVE populace and CCP?
That is the basis of my candidacy: cut out the middle man. Let the people speak directly to CCP, not filtered through a player counsel. It's not perfect, it's far from the summum bonum, but it sure beats the CSM concept as it stands now. |
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.05.02 08:08:00 -
[15]
I am going to convince my alliance to vote for LaVista Vista. |
Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.05.02 11:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Draekas Darkwater on 02/05/2008 11:31:09 Very few people in my corp even know about this stuff. Its out of game, on the forums.. and only a few really browse the official forums at all. Let alone, try to keep up with all the differnet candidates, platforms, ect.
The sheer time requirements of keeping up with everyone is just, well, a high barrier to entry, shall we say. Most are just ignoring it and are playing the game instead of forum whoring.
If I had to guess, in the end, maybe.. 10% might vote informed and aware of who/what they are voting for. Some others might vote for someone, based on who those 10% may be voting for.
Frankly, I'd much prefer to hear some audio, over all of this reading. Something I can play in the background while I play the game, like I do with podcasts. Instead of writing an essay about what you want to do, make an audio recording of yourself instead. Take Jade's platform.. I couldn't bring myself to read all that, but I did listen to his EVE Uni speech he linked, while I ran some missions a while ago.
I know some of the EVE podcasters have also offered to have some sort of discussion/depates on thier shows. That's the kind of thing that I recommend doing. |
zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.05.02 11:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hamfast
I look and see 19 [CSM Candidate] threads here… perhaps this means the rest are not worthy of consideration…
perhaps. mine is amongst those that never get a reply, are not bumped by friends foes or alts and therefore end up on page 3 soon.
I try to take a stand on the topics the voters bring up, i hope that doing so is more important than bumping my candidate thread.
if any of you like or hate me enough, please do the bump for me :-)
I have no one campaigning for me. Also i have not seen anyone campaigning for someone else. Perhaps it is a goood thing, the more we talk for our selfes, the more accurate the impression we leave with teh voters will be.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.05.02 12:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Max Torps I totally agree with you here.
If you look at the "read" count of many of the threads in the CSM forum they are quite pitifully small when you consider there are circa 200,000 accounts, roughly 50% as alts giving circa 100,000 playing people.
An idea would be if CCP should change the game login message from the fairly old RMT trading dev blog link to a link and note about the CSM Forum.
Wrangler and crowd.. any chance of this happening please?
There are about 230.000 paying accounts, about 80% of those are one person = one account, the rest are two accounts or more, making it impossible to say exactly how many individual subscribers we have but at minimum 184.000 and then some. It was a while ago I heard the 80% thing so it may have shifted but probably not much. So now you know that.
We'll look into bringing some attention to the CSM, including MOTD and such, but keep in mind the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Not everything is CCP's fault.
If you guys need anything else please just drop me an email like Max Torps did, it's in my signature, and I'll discuss it with our CSM guys and see what we can do. |
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.02 13:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you guys need anything else please just drop me an email like Max Torps did, it's in my signature, and I'll discuss it with our CSM guys and see what we can do.
I had a question actually Wrangler and its probably worth asking in public since it'll need mentioning in public if the answer is yes. Can we use some form of banner at the top of our [CSM Candidate] introductions? If so what kind of limitations (dimensions and file size) would be ideal?
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.05.02 13:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I had a question actually Wrangler and its probably worth asking in public since it'll need mentioning in public if the answer is yes. Can we use some form of banner at the top of our [CSM Candidate] introductions? If so what kind of limitations (dimensions and file size) would be ideal?
Sure, I placed the rules in this thread, which is basically a modified copy of the Corporation or Alliance Recruitment Banner rule (#3.b). |
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General Spaz
Minmatar Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:08:00 -
[21]
Edited by: General Spaz on 02/05/2008 14:10:27 I will be having my corporation and friendly corporations in game voting for LaVista as well, he's a stand up guy who isn't dodging questions and takes a firm stand on the topics discussed. He also has experience with all aspects of gameplay which gives him a good feel of balance.
Jade and Goum are pretty good too, they both make excellent points. |
Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.05.02 22:11:00 -
[22]
How about the possibility of some in game Q&As with the candidates? Something like the live dev chats.. recorded and posted later for all to listen to.
Just a thought.
But I am certain I could get more of my corp mates to listen to this kind of stuff WHILE they play the game, than I could get them to read for hours on end as I do. |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler There are about 230.000 paying accounts, about 80% of those are one person = one account, the rest are two accounts or more, making it impossible to say exactly how many individual subscribers we have but at minimum 184.000 and then some. It was a while ago I heard the 80% thing so it may have shifted but probably not much. So now you know that.
We'll look into bringing some attention to the CSM, including MOTD and such, but keep in mind the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". Not everything is CCP's fault.
If you guys need anything else please just drop me an email like Max Torps did, it's in my signature, and I'll discuss it with our CSM guys and see what we can do.
Thanks for the updated info and changing the MOTD! |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Draekas Darkwater How about the possibility of some in game Q&As with the candidates? Something like the live dev chats.. recorded and posted later for all to listen to.
Just a thought.
But I am certain I could get more of my corp mates to listen to this kind of stuff WHILE they play the game, than I could get them to read for hours on end as I do.
LaVista's TS server was open tonight and I believe he's recorded it and hopefully will be able to post a link to that recording. Not all of the candidates are represented and Im afraid you'll have to endure my monotone and arguably limited questions (Im no urban & blinky) but it is an audio file and I think the candidates more than compensated for my amatuer interview technique with their answers.
C.
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Arithron on 02/05/2008 23:52:07 It was my first time at TS, so to speak
Forgive any ramblings! It's worth listening to just to hear Bane Glorious.... |
Venko Trenulo
Wakizashi Renaissance
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Posted - 2008.05.03 00:18:00 -
[26]
There's been a little chatting about the election in local even out in Derelik, though I wouldn't call it campaigning per se... just identifying some losers.
How many votes does each account get? Seems like nine would be a reasonable number, either to pick nine candidates or to pile up on one or two. If it's just one, then chances are that everyone but the first 2 or 3 will be pretty random.
If just one, then "single transferable vote" sounds pretty fair: if your first candidate gets the fewest votes and is thus eliminated, then your vote goes to your second choice, and so on.
If the voting rules have already been published, ignore this. |
Cventas
Minmatar Intaglios Semblancies CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.04 04:32:00 -
[27]
hey....When is the first live debate scheduled?
and... I volunteer to run the unbiased stopwatch for candidate answer times
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