| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sovai Elaaren
Korriban Confederation
15
   |
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Personally, I've always seen them both as valid tactics, each requiring it's own skill-set and each having strengths and weaknesses you need to play to. However, I've run into a number of players who seem to think that kiting is for cowards and brawling is the only honorable way to pvp. I never hear the reverse though, that brawling is for morons and kiting is the only reasonable way to pvp.
Why the hate for kiting? |
Karak Bol
Cable Innovations
Cloud 7 Nebulosa
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 07:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pretty simple: If you lose to a Brawler, you have the feeling of "Well, that was close. He is in Struc/low armor/almost broke his shield too". If you lose to a Kiter: "He didnt even got a scratch, coward." I personally tend to the Brawler side, but I have no problem losing. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
445
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 08:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
"All is fair in love and war."
I tend to prefer "brawling"... getting right into the enemy's face and saying "**** you" while my ship and weapons melt around me. There is something almost... cathartic... about it. All that fear and aggression rolled into one because you KNOW one of you is not going to make it out alive. Sadly... my wallet says that I cannot indulge as much as I'd want to in this activity.
With "kiting"... it has it's place for those that prefer more "surgical" tactics. Get in, do what you can, get out when you need to, get back in when you are ready. Only recently have I seriously begun to engage in "kiting" and I find it does have its uses.
I guess what bothers me about kiting is that a brawler doesn't have many ways to counter a kiter... especially Gallente ships as they have trouble dictating range to "brawl" effectively in their sluggish armor-tanked ships. Amarr ships at least have lasers, with their loner engagement envelope, to counter
On second thought... I don't want to turn this into a flame-war about how some things need to be nerfed/buffed. Let's just keep this as a campy, "I prefer this tactic because..." discussion. 
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1664
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't care what tactic you want to use personally but I can see where the 'manliness' comes in. Mainly because brawlers have to utterly commit to a fight while kiters can easily disengage at will.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
People don't like to lose.
If a brawler loses to a kiter it's not because he committed to a fight he shouldn't have but it's because kiting is lame. At least, that's what he said. He now tries to argue kiting is lame, just to have you fight him again in a brawling ship.
If he now wins, he has just won the fight not by better tactics or ships or fitting, but because he managed to convince you to go away from your successful tactic to a less successful one.
That's what honor is about: trying to convince people to do stupid things without a good reason. |
OT Smithers
Cult of Baal
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kiting is dancing the Tango while her protective father watches you with his shotgun in hand.
Brawling is running stark naked into a police station with a chainsaw running full tilt boogie.
Kiting is like driving an F1 Ferarri in the rain at Monoco.
Brawling is like driving a top fuel dragster.
Kiting is like trying to catch a King Cobra... with your teeth.
Brawling is slathering yourself with goats blood, jumping into the Polar Bear exibit, and then raping one of the bears.
In other words...
One requires finess, judgement, situational awareness, and tactics. The other requires attitude and often alcohol.
|
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Brawling is typically weak on tactics as it's usually just a matter of whom ever has the best DPS + tank which simply comes into a numbers game. There are of course piloting skills involved but that's usually only up to the point of getting someone into scram range once you have that it's typically just orbit at X distance F1, f2, f3 ect..ect..
Kiting on the other hand often requires a lot of manual flying specially when you are dealing with more than one target. It's not just a simple set orbit and watch target melt unless you are in something really fast and agile. IMO kiting is a much more pilot skill intensive way to fight because if your just one of those retards that always set orbit and forgets then u will either get webbed/scrammed by a competent pilot or you will lose a lot of targets from guys that know how to get away. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Royal Scientific Research Enterprise
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote:Personally, I've always seen them both as valid tactics, each requiring it's own skill-set and each having strengths and weaknesses you need to play to. However, I've run into a number of players who seem to think that kiting is for cowards and brawling is the only honorable way to pvp. I never hear the reverse though, that brawling is for morons and kiting is the only reasonable way to pvp.
Why the hate for kiting?
It's really a non-discussion. Each ship in the game is good at some things and does other things poorly. Brawling in a kiting ship or kiting in a brawling ship is putting a square peg in a round hole either way.
Real PVP skill is not developed by moaning about how the other guy does it and insisting that "your way" is the right way. Skilled PVP'er learn how to control a fight regardless of what they're in and deal flexibly wih whatever you're faced with. Sometimes that means you have to choose not to fight and sometimes it means that a fight ends in a stalemate but there is no one "right way" to PVP.
T-
|
Sovai Elaaren
Korriban Confederation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 13:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
What a lot of you have said is kind of what I was thinking it might be. Being successfully kited is kind of like being blue-balled, but you still lose your ship.
Sjugar wrote:That's what honor is about: trying to convince people to do stupid things without a good reason.
I lol'd at this. A pretty apt description, in a lot of cases. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
94
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
well i do both with all size of ships.
while kiting u usually think of dancing outside od scram/web range however same dance happens in brawler range and if u use ur ship properly u can maximize output damage or neutralize oponents incoming damage (mostly AC vs. blaster brawlers, where AC can dance on the edge of scram web and out put more dmg).
These foul stereotypes comes from peoples frustration.
I had both sidesi in past - sitting duck in ubertanked ship which si being raped by cynabals or cynabal which cannot withstand long enough while shooting the tanked brawler.
It is more about choosing right situational tactics rahter then thinking what is more heroic. In eve none tactics is universal in midsize fighting ..... blob tactics has its own specialties.
IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |
Princess Nexxala
The Rock Hard Roosters
Villore Accords
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 14:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Brawling is fairly simple and straight forward and can be a lot of fun...it's just easier to do. Most PvPers start with this method and graduate to kiting as its much more effective.
i am not sure why us kiters get all the hate. Oh yeah I do its because we win...brawlers are jelly and just resort to insults to compensate. Its kind of sad, but I suppose you can't blame them for being upset...losing does that to people.
In all seriousness tho both are valid tactics and while I find kiting much more useful, brawling has its place in certain situations.
Is sexy time? |
Princess Nexxala
The Rock Hard Roosters
Villore Accords
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 14:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
QFT
OT Smithers wrote:
In other words...
One requires finess, judgement, situational awareness, and tactics. The other requires attitude and often alcohol.
Is sexy time? |
Stukkler Tian
Deaths Head Brigade
Vanguard.
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kiting is great if you dont want to loose ships but i has alot of drawbacks/risks. The biggest one is embarassment (aka lol you lost your slicer/artywolf to a rifter)
the thing to remember when your kiting especially in the smaller boats like frigs is that hp is no indication of how close a fight was. If im in a brawl setup and I get killed by a kiter i judge the quality of the fight by how close i was to landing a scram/web. Still it can be rather boring/frustrating for an oponent which is why i personally avoid kiting outside of scram range in a freindly 1v1 or in areas that i fight in often. Its worth losing a few brawl ships if it keeps people coming back for more. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kiting allows you to engage with extremely unfavourable odds (5:1, 10:1) and still have a chance. The great thing about kiting is that often your opponents will go "it's only two drakes, charrrrge get them I wanna be on the mail" and keep coming and coming and coming.
Brawling is a different playstyle, one that I would like to engage in more often. However, it's relatively rare to find a(close to) even numbers fight, and as such flying in kiting ships gets me more fights.
I don't wish kiting was useless, I enjoy the greater situational awareness of kiting. I'd just like a little more opportunity to charge in without brain :)
But in the end, kiting is far superior to brawling IMO, and people tend towards tactics that work. |
Beat General
Anarchist Industries Reborn
Malice Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
pft, kiting is so boring and lame. Even if you win.
No thanks. |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote:Personally, I've always seen them both as valid tactics, each requiring it's own skill-set and each having strengths and weaknesses you need to play to. However, I've run into a number of players who seem to think that kiting is for cowards and brawling is the only honorable way to pvp. I never hear the reverse though, that brawling is for morons and kiting is the only reasonable way to pvp.
Why the hate for kiting?
i was in a faction frig 1v1 last night vs a firetail with mwd and longpoint. it kited me at 19km and i was not able to escape or hit it with anything. quite frustrating because i tried manually pilotting to meet him where he'd be in 2-3 seconds but nothing worked. freakin 20km dude kited me for 15 minutes i couldnt get 1 shot off. and ill tell you this if it was a fair fight i woulda scraped him under my boot. but because e kited me at 20km i couldnt do jack **** :( |
Sovai Elaaren
Korriban Confederation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ganjjabeard wrote:
i was in a faction frig 1v1 last night vs a firetail with mwd and longpoint. it kited me at 19km and i was not able to escape or hit it with anything. quite frustrating because i tried manually pilotting to meet him where he'd be in 2-3 seconds but nothing worked. freakin 20km dude kited me for 15 minutes i couldnt get 1 shot off. and ill tell you this if it was a fair fight i woulda scraped him under my boot. but because e kited me at 20km i couldnt do jack **** :(
That's exactly my point... there's a perception that kiting "isn't fair", but let's flip that around. You land on top of him, get web/scram right away. Would you concede that it wasn't a fair fight for him since he didn't have a chance to pull range?
|
Stukkler Tian
Deaths Head Brigade
Vanguard.
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ganjjabeard wrote: i was in a faction frig 1v1 last night vs a firetail with mwd and longpoint. it kited me at 19km and i was not able to escape or hit it with anything. quite frustrating because i tried manually pilotting to meet him where he'd be in 2-3 seconds but nothing worked. freakin 20km dude kited me for 15 minutes i couldnt get 1 shot off. and ill tell you this if it was a fair fight i woulda scraped him under my boot. but because e kited me at 20km i couldnt do jack **** :(
when your flying a brawl fit ship it is best to assume that everyone is trying to kite you untill proven otherwise. The best way to catch a ship is in the opening seconds of a fight when he is closing the gap and might fly right into youroverheated web or as he is trying to pull range. Also the fight seems perfectly fair your faction frig vs his faction frig he was just better a exicuting his gameplan. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
Killing With Kindness
The Obsidian Front
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
I fly both, I love brawling when drunk but when i know I'll be taking on over top odds I'll kite every time.
My fave ship is a brawler but the one I head to if I want to live and kill is a kiter.
Both are dangerous, you know in a kiting boat that if you get scrammed you are ****** and the stress levels at keeping awareness on multiple ships closing speed and vectors is far far higher than a brawler in the same situation. . However, a brawler engages and is now waiting for the blob knowing if it arrives before target dies that its a dead ship. |
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
Caldari State Capturing
140
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote:That's exactly my point... there's a perception that kiting "isn't fair", but let's flip that around. You land on top of him, get web/scram right away. Let's face it; that guy is boned if anything lands a web/scram on him. Would you concede that it wasn't a fair fight for him since he didn't have a chance to pull range?
just commenting one thing: Kiting is and will be preferred tactic of most people while warfare links operate as they do. As I said in other thread in Cal/Gal faction warfare, bulk of players will have their alt tugged away in safe spot running links. This makes for predictable enviroment where blueballing becomes the norm since people can calculate in their heads that my link < enemy link if needed and wont take a single chance to risk their precious eggshell of a kiting boat.
The sooner links start to function only when in grid, the better it will be for pvp. |
Sovai Elaaren
Korriban Confederation
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:
just commenting one thing: Kiting is and will be preferred tactic of most people while warfare links operate as they do. As I said in other thread in Cal/Gal faction warfare, bulk of players will have their alt tugged away in safe spot running links. This makes for predictable enviroment where blueballing becomes the norm since people can calculate in their heads that my link < enemy link if needed and wont take a single chance to risk their precious eggshell of a kiting boat.
The sooner links start to function only when in grid, the better it will be for pvp.
One could say the same for brawling though, just with a different set of links (shield or armor). That said, I do agree that on-grid boosting will probably help PvP in a lot of ways. |
Kat Bandeis
Border Zone Excursions
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 18:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
There are people who think long-range sniping is win, versus risking damage in close-up. Cruise vs Assaults. Rail vs. Blaster. Gun vs Knife.
People like what gets them the KM. People hate what makes them a victim. It ain't rocket science. |
Dark Pangolin
The Clean Up Crew
S E D I T I O N
58
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
In general the main points of the thread are;
- Brawlers are for starting players, less kills, piloting, tactics required, fully committed to fight.
- Kiters are for more experienced pilots, who want to be able to run from a fight, or escape and unfavorable situation.
- Boosters should have to be ON-Grid.
I agree with all the above points. In general kiting fleets allow your roam to not get face pwned...ruining your day. Unfortunately in EVE there is always a fleet with more #s than you somewhere...ability to GTFO>Ability to sit face to face and melt face... |
Beat General
Anarchist Industries Reborn
Malice Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:
- Boosters should have to be ON-Grid.
Bad idea is bad. |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Beat General wrote:Dark Pangolin wrote:
- Boosters should have to be ON-Grid.
Bad idea is bad.
Pardon my ignorance, but how is that bad? Offgrid t3 boosters completely obsolete fleet commands. What's the point of a damnation tanking like a beast if you don't even have to be on-grid to boost?
Edit: I'd assume you we're also against making t3's probable, but ass of you and me and all that jazz. |
Ganjjabeard
Good Vs. Neutral
Stop Exploding You Cowards
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote:Ganjjabeard wrote:
i was in a faction frig 1v1 last night vs a firetail with mwd and longpoint. it kited me at 19km and i was not able to escape or hit it with anything. quite frustrating because i tried manually pilotting to meet him where he'd be in 2-3 seconds but nothing worked. freakin 20km dude kited me for 15 minutes i couldnt get 1 shot off. and ill tell you this if it was a fair fight i woulda scraped him under my boot. but because e kited me at 20km i couldnt do jack **** :(
That's exactly my point... there's a perception that kiting "isn't fair", but let's flip that around. You land on top of him, get web/scram right away. Let's face it; that guy is boned if anything lands a web/scram on him. Would you concede that it wasn't a fair fight for him since he didn't have a chance to pull range?
i see your point it is evenly matched depending on how the fight began. but look at it this way. the fight was arranged 1v1 (probably my first mistake lol) we didnt land on eachother we landed about 200km from eachother so from the get go he had the drop on me thx to that range gap. but in your scenario where id land on top of him (more likely being a random un organized fight) yes i woulda had him easily since he was mwd fit and i coulda scrammed n webbed in an instant. so i guess the argument is dependent on how the fight began. either way being on the end thats getting kited around its annoying when you cant do anything lol  |
Sovai Elaaren
Korriban Confederation
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Beat General wrote:Dark Pangolin wrote:
- Boosters should have to be ON-Grid.
Bad idea is bad.
Bad poster is bad.
Ganjjabeard wrote:i see your point it is evenly matched depending on how the fight began. but look at it this way. the fight was arranged 1v1 (probably my first mistake lol) we didnt land on eachother we landed about 200km from eachother so from the get go he had the drop on me thx to that range gap. but in your scenario where id land on top of him (more likely being a random un organized fight) yes i woulda had him easily since he was mwd fit and i coulda scrammed n webbed in an instant. so i guess the argument is dependent on how the fight began. either way being on the end thats getting kited around its annoying when you cant do anything lol
Yup, I've been there. Depending on the ship you're in too, there may not even be a chance to out-maneuver an agile kiter, but in an arranged 1v1, can't really just say 'no thanks', haha. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Nulli Secunda
332
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sovai Elaaren wrote: However, I've run into a number of players who seem to think that kiting is for cowards and brawling is the only honorable way to pvp.
Stop talking to those people. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
295
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 22:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Damar Rocarion wrote:Sovai Elaaren wrote:That's exactly my point... there's a perception that kiting "isn't fair", but let's flip that around. You land on top of him, get web/scram right away. Let's face it; that guy is boned if anything lands a web/scram on him. Would you concede that it wasn't a fair fight for him since he didn't have a chance to pull range? just commenting one thing: Kiting is and will be preferred tactic of most people while warfare links operate as they do. As I said in other thread in Cal/Gal faction warfare, bulk of players will have their alt tugged away in safe spot running links. This makes for predictable enviroment where blueballing becomes the norm since people can calculate in their heads that my link < enemy link if needed and wont take a single chance to risk their precious eggshell of a kiting boat. The sooner links start to function only when in grid, the better it will be for pvp.
I was going to say that eve has a very good balance between trying to kite someone outside scram range and trying to get a brawling ship inside scram range.
But that balance basically thrown out of the window with off grid booster ships. The extra range these give to points and webs combined with the extra speed makes it very unbalanced.
I hope ccp does what you suggest and requires boosters to be on grid.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 22:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
I can't agree more with the on-grid booster proposal.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window! |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |