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Ulfgar Rumnarn
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:45:00 -
[1]
I think that war decs would be enhanced by allowing cap ships to be cynoed into high sec. This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!) on war targets and also use cap ships in high sec wars.
In order to have no one "tank CONCORD" make a new CONCORD dread that locks a dread or Carrier down and pops with pretty quick once it arrives. CONCORD has very powerful ships why can't they have a cap ship too?
Anyone have any input on this idea? (please be constructive whether you agree or not. But saying "it sucks" helps no one) |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Malcanis on 02/05/2008 14:48:01 You can take out POS using just BS. it takes a while, but on the other hand, AFAIK, hi-sec POS can't have their weapons aimed by POS gunners, unlike POS in cyno-jammed systems in 0.0.
How many BS are you thinking of? 40 or 50 or so can get the job done in a couple of hours, depending on how the POS is fitted. |
DDemon
The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:48:00 -
[3]
Concord is already untankable in a cap ship, I tried to do so on the test server and they set drone bandwidth to 0 resulting in loss of drones/fighters. They also reduce your cap to 0 so even a dread in siege dies in a few seconds.
I kinda like this idea but I don't think ccp will allow this. |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:49:00 -
[4]
I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.
I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out. |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:49:00 -
[5]
Not allowing capships into highsec is a remnant of the days when CONCORD did not steal all your cap and ecm you to death. As well, they used to not warp-scram/web you...
There used to be a time when, if you had a large enough ship (a dread or carrier gang), you could indeed tank concord indefinitely. (this was also when you could build carriers/dreads in highsec iirc). Now, the problem was that a carrier or dread could easily gank something, then tank out concord long enough to dock. Now, CONCORD steals all of your cap, and you cant target anything.
So Yes, I agree. capships need to have limited ability to cyno in highsec... 0.7 is the highest you can put a pos up, right? No cynos above 0.7 space.
Also gives mommies and titans somewhere to be without fear or getting popped... |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:53:00 -
[6]
Hmmm. Some thoughts on possible mechanics:
Time-restricted capital jump clearances. Part of faction warfare.
Allows you to purchase time to jump into friendly faction territory at specific faction-controlled jump POS's. Like a Gallente Navy Jump Beacon or something. Once in, you're allowed to execute jumps within that faction's territory to specific grids only (no stations or gates, just moons for instance).
Once the clearance elapses if the pilot in question is not out of that faction's territory, the faction navy in question will wtfpwn it.
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RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:55:00 -
[7]
Hmm, what would it take to suicide gank a macro-rorqual? |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus Hmm, what would it take to suicide gank a macro-rorqual?
An anti-macro-rorqual rorqual.
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Gridwalker
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amastat I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.
It is not possible to build cap ships in hi sec, except freighters and jump freighters. This is because you can only build them in a Capital Ship Assembly Array, which can only be anchored in a 0.0 system where your alliance has sovereignty.
At one point, you could build cap ships in NPC stations in hi sec, but this capability was removed.
As far as what the OP states, I'm personally wouldn't want to form an opinion on this until we see what faction warfare brings.
-Grid
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Bronson Hughes
The KAOS Holdings Group
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amastat I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.
I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out.
You cannot build capital ships in NPC stations, you need to use a Large Ship Assembly Array anchored at a POS. You cannot anchor these in HiSec anymore and CCP removed all of the ones that were.
You are correct, however, that there is no restriction on actually having a capital ship in HiSec. Chribba's Veldnaught lives in Amarr for example and there are a few more, albeit less famous, ones lurking about. |
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:08:00 -
[11]
Dreads and Carriers can be built at stations but only 0.4 and below [or is it 0.3] Motherships and titans need arrays to build and they need sov to anchor |
Rawne Karrde
An Tir Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:10:00 -
[12]
Yeah Rattus
.4 and lower npc stations you can build dreads, carriers and rorquals. High sec npc is freighters and jump freighters SUper caps - titans and Moms - are capital assembly arrays only. |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Amastat I may be wrong - but it is possible to have capitals in high-sec, isn't it? You just have them built in a high-sec system I think? Only issue is that once you jump out you can't get back into high-sec since cynosural fields cannot be opened in high-sec.
I had thought you can build capitals (but not super-capitals) in a station in high-sec - however no one does that since you can't jump it back in, if you plan to have it stay there you have to never jump it out.
You cannot build capital ships in NPC stations, you need to use a Large Ship Assembly Array anchored at a POS. You cannot anchor these in HiSec anymore and CCP removed all of the ones that were.
You are correct, however, that there is no restriction on actually having a capital ship in HiSec. Chribba's Veldnaught lives in Amarr for example and there are a few more, albeit less famous, ones lurking about.
Ah, ok - that makes sense then :P Too bad you can't build them anymore, I was thinking of having some dreadnoughts built in a certain 0.5 system that has a awful lot of research POS's :P |
Frug
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:43:00 -
[14]
Quote: This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)
We have taken out several high sec POS's for clients.
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Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.02 15:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Frug
Quote: This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)
We have taken out several high sec POS's for clients.
If you guys get bored, go check out the moons in Foves - you will crap yourself :P |
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.02 16:25:00 -
[16]
Many PvPers in high sec enjoy the lack of cap ships, many seeking high because of that. After getting fed up of having carriers dropped on their roaming gang etc. |
ZzZGilletteZzZ
Caldari ZzZDefZzZ
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Posted - 2008.05.02 16:37:00 -
[17]
High sec is laggy enough without introducing carrier fighter blobs. |
wired2kill
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.02 16:40:00 -
[18]
hmmmmmmm fighter blob in jita
nuff said |
Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.05.02 18:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Suitonia on 02/05/2008 18:04:17
Quote: This would allow high sec POSes to actually be taken out (have you tried to take out a POS with just BSes? ICK!)
Linkage
Took a Combined effort of 11+ hours, but it went down in the end.
I personally think Capital ships should remain in lowsec and 0.0. |
Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2008.05.02 18:30:00 -
[20]
I would like it for one reason: moving my stuff around in a Carrier. |
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Wasted Mind
Gallente Syntech Research and Development
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Posted - 2008.05.02 19:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Wasted Mind on 02/05/2008 19:45:47 An odd side note is that i think they should at least be allowed to travel through high sec but not attack anything or anyone. It would make moving items around easier and i really do think it would help more new players get attracted to eve.
The reason i say this about new players is because i remember when i first signed up i wanted to see these huge ships such as carriers, dreads ect because they really are an awesome sight to look at. A new player entering the game and seeing such things flying around in high sec may feel more inclined to continue past the trial version just because he would be like "Dear god i must have one". |
Kyreax
Neuronix
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Posted - 2008.05.02 20:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Wasted Mind i think they should at least be allowed to travel through high sec but not attack anything or anyone.
I agree with this. Just let em in, but no attacky nobody. |
Faife
Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.02 20:25:00 -
[23]
You know what was awesome? People carrier grinding lvl 4s in total safety. Yeah, let's bring that back. That's not an isk fountain at all. |
Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.05.02 20:26:00 -
[24]
If this was implemented, it would only be a matter of time before a titan popped a doomsday in Jita.
Which, I suppose, is an argument in favor of allowing cap ships in Empire. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.02 20:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shadow Joy If this was implemented, it would only be a matter of time before a titan popped a doomsday in Jita.
Which, I suppose, is an argument in favor of allowing cap ships in Empire.
Considering you can only doomsday 0.0 space, that would be rather hard.... |
Bronson Hughes
The KAOS Holdings Group
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Posted - 2008.05.02 20:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Faife You know what was awesome? People carrier grinding lvl 4s in total safety. Yeah, let's bring that back. That's not an isk fountain at all.
Except that most missions have Acceleration Gates that don't let Capital Ships in. You could only use Cap Ships on the small handful of missions that don't have gates so I don't really see that as a problem.
For my thoughts on this, look here. Basically, I sya we should let Cynos back in HiSec, but the Cyno pilots will require faction-specific consumables similar to starbase charters in addition to Cyno fuel and they need to have high enough faction standings to match the system they're opening the Cyno in. This limits the number of Cap Ships you'd see in HiSec, limits them to systems that allow POSes, and fits with the backstory. |
Aurix Lexico
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.05.02 21:42:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Aurix Lexico on 02/05/2008 21:44:43 I still don't get why people want cap ships in high sec. High sec POSs can be killed with BS and logistics (it is alittle hard on well setup POSs, and it should be)
Cap ships should be rare, and it should be a moment of awe when you first see one. A noob seeing a bunch outside of Jita removes the whole "wow, that thing is huge and about to kill me" vibe.
So what if it would make moving ships easier in high sec? When has game changes been based purely on your convenience?
Ever think some people want to pvp without worrying about capitals? Alot of people move to high sec just so they don't have to worry about capitals. I know some of our targets have complained about how many more sp's we have, but atleast they can still kill us. I don't want to sit outside a high sec station in a capital gang, and I know alot of people agree with me. |
Faife
Noctiscion Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.02 21:55:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Faife on 02/05/2008 21:55:37 Yeah, that's the other aspect.
Right now, I fly mostly BCs in pvp because I can't afford better. If I got wardecced by a corp 10 times my size (there's 19 of us) I can at least rely that by staying in high-sec i won't have to fight stuff bigger than BSes.
If I thought that at undock I'm gonna get surprise cyno sex, I just might drop to an NPC corp for a while. Less fun for me, less fun for the pirates, who wins on this? |
Draeca
Happy Carebears Inc. Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.02 22:02:00 -
[29]
Yes, a capital blob outside jita 4-4 is just what we need. |
Serious Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.05.02 22:56:00 -
[30]
I support the concept of caps in high sec - but 0.7 and below.
How about making the ability to cyno into high sec work on the same standings basis as high sec POS...? |
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Wrath.
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:05:00 -
[31]
I would say /signed, but thats not allowed so I guess I have to state the reasoning behind my support of this idea.
In the beginning, when cap ships were introduced, they were allowed in hisec. In very short order, people started abusing this by tanking CONCORD and using them to wtfpwn lv 4 missions. CCP responded by blocking them from missions and shuffling them off to .5 and below.
So now we come back to current times. The situations which led CCP to relegate cap ships to 0.0 no longer exist. There is no reason to change any of the rules regarding mission access, so that problem has been solved and remains a non-issue. That leaves the CONCORD problem, which, as has been stated before, is also a non-issue. Since CONCORD now pretty much destroys any capability of a cap ship to tank them, what reason is there to force cap pilots to remain in .5 and below? None!
I hope the following has been a proper replacement for the infamous '/signed', and that I have avoided getting my post moderated. |
charming wanderer
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Draeca Yes, a capital blob outside jita 4-4 is just what we need.
And this would be any different how? So the ships are larger, that just means that spectators will have a better show to watch! |
Aurix Lexico
Repo Industries R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:11:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Billy Sastard what reason is there to force cap pilots to remain in .5 and below? None!
Didn't you read my post? I believe I have some valid concerns regarding allowing cap ships in high sec.
(note that I'm a newbie cap pilot, and still don't like this) |
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.02 23:47:00 -
[34]
sorry, but thats just a horrible idea, lets have at least one place to be able to pvp without the fear of getting carrier spammed |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2008.05.03 00:12:00 -
[35]
well i only see one problem with this.
capships are uber duper ships compared to any other ships and if they where not seriously nerfed before moving into highsec we would for real see "caps online" since every one would be flying cap ships instead of normal ships. hell what is the point of using a marauder when you can use a carrier that cost the same, have 4-6 times the tank and 2-3 times the dmg output..
:P
caps are too powerfull compared to any normal ship.. if you fixed this first it would be cool |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.03 03:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Buyerr well i only see one problem with this.
capships are uber duper ships compared to any other ships and if they where not seriously nerfed before moving into highsec we would for real see "caps online" since every one would be flying cap ships instead of normal ships. hell what is the point of using a marauder when you can use a carrier that cost the same, have 4-6 times the tank and 2-3 times the dmg output..
:P
caps are too powerfull compared to any normal ship.. if you fixed this first it would be cool
A carrier that costs less than a marauder? LOL Skills come up to a fair bit alone mate, then there is fittings, a cheap fit carrier is a "Kill me" sign in space. |
Summer River
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Posted - 2008.05.03 04:23:00 -
[37]
Oh yeah, I can see it now. A 40 Thanatos fleet jumps into Jita and launches fighters. Yum. |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.03 04:49:00 -
[38]
No |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Pwnage Distribution Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.04 00:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Aurix Lexico Edited by: Aurix Lexico on 02/05/2008 21:44:43 I still don't get why people want cap ships in high sec. High sec POSs can be killed with BS and logistics (it is alittle hard on well setup POSs, and it should be)
Cap ships should be rare, and it should be a moment of awe when you first see one. A noob seeing a bunch outside of Jita removes the whole "wow, that thing is huge and about to kill me" vibe.
So what if it would make moving ships easier in high sec? When has game changes been based purely on your convenience?
Ever think some people want to pvp without worrying about capitals? Alot of people move to high sec just so they don't have to worry about capitals. I know some of our targets have complained about how many more sp's we have, but atleast they can still kill us. I don't want to sit outside a high sec station in a capital gang, and I know alot of people agree with me.
/Thread quite frankly. Unless one of you can make even half an attempt to address anything in this, which I can't see happening. |
Dau Imperius
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.04 03:07:00 -
[40]
Hell yes, hell yes and um..hell yes. I've been able to fly dreads and carriers for some time now...just couldn't afford them when they first came out. But I have really wanted to fly them, and not in less-brain-cells-then-shown-space (.4 and lower)
This is SPACE (yes I used caps to emphasise that there's heaps of room in space) Even in a game, there's no common sense reason why any size ship can't enter a system. Jump gate restrictions make about as much sense as saying water can't fit through a *****, rather then a wide gap, because it's too small. Think about it...a jump gate converts the ship into a long beam of energy at high speds. If it can do a freighter with heaps more mass and of equal size? Need I go on? CCP has already set the precedant on such a thing now; time to let it go its natural course.
And anyways, most importantly: If there's already a Veldnought about, then either remove it from high sec for good (and any other ships akin to it)...or let the rest of us pilots get about it. No more second-guessing and exemptions to things. You opened pandoras box, now it's time to let the rest of play inside. |
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Flipout
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.04 03:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dau Imperius Hell yes, hell yes and um..hell yes. I've been able to fly dreads and carriers for some time now...just couldn't afford them when they first came out. But I have really wanted to fly them, and not in less-brain-cells-then-shown-space (.4 and lower)
This is SPACE (yes I used caps to emphasise that there's heaps of room in space) Even in a game, there's no common sense reason why any size ship can't enter a system. Jump gate restrictions make about as much sense as saying water can't fit through a *****, rather then a wide gap, because it's too small. Think about it...a jump gate converts the ship into a long beam of energy at high speds. If it can do a freighter with heaps more mass and of equal size? Need I go on? CCP has already set the precedant on such a thing now; time to let it go its natural course.
And anyways, most importantly: If there's already a Veldnought about, then either remove it from high sec for good (and any other ships akin to it)...or let the rest of us pilots get about it. No more second-guessing and exemptions to things. You opened pandoras box, now it's time to let the rest of play inside.
Why does there have to be some storyline reason for something to occur in EVE? Can't something just be there for the sake of being there? Sorry for the mini-rant but it just ****es me off "We can't do this because IT DOESNT FIT IN WITH REAL LIFE!!!!"
Also, what you say about the veldnought, wouldn't that kinda be like "Oh hey, you bought a carrier from an isk farmer! Were going to take your carrier away and not give you your isk back!"
Last part probably doesn't make sense but it does to me ^_^ |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.04 07:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dau Imperius Hell yes, hell yes and um..hell yes. I've been able to fly dreads and carriers for some time now...just couldn't afford them when they first came out. But I have really wanted to fly them, and not in less-brain-cells-then-shown-space (.4 and lower)
This is SPACE (yes I used caps to emphasise that there's heaps of room in space) Even in a game, there's no common sense reason why any size ship can't enter a system. Jump gate restrictions make about as much sense as saying water can't fit through a *****, rather then a wide gap, because it's too small. Think about it...a jump gate converts the ship into a long beam of energy at high speds. If it can do a freighter with heaps more mass and of equal size? Need I go on? CCP has already set the precedant on such a thing now; time to let it go its natural course.
And anyways, most importantly: If there's already a Veldnought about, then either remove it from high sec for good (and any other ships akin to it)...or let the rest of us pilots get about it. No more second-guessing and exemptions to things. You opened pandoras box, now it's time to let the rest of play inside.
The capitol ships in high sec where deployed there when it was still possible. They can no fire on other ships or POS so they give no tactical or strategical advantage of any kind (the veldnaught mine less than a covetor), having them is simply a publicity stunt for the corps that have them.
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