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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 05:51:00 -
[1]
This is a small discussion and a prayer for CCP, to help CSM. Till this point, CCP haven't really done too much to help CSM. And I'm afraid that it will have an affect on how CSM will run, the first time around.
I think it's important that we get in touch with the WHOLE of the community. And Agent Apple made a good post, about how we would manage to get in touch with the whole community. And it's a tricky thing.
CSM needs tools, so that they can get in touch with the people who doesn't read the forums and who doesn't read the in-game news. These are the people that will be overseen, and that SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!
I was researching into options for a dedicated CSM site, as a way for people to get in touch directly with CSM.
But really, it's just not viable, as it doesn't make a difference.
CCP, we have an issue here. We need your thoughts about how we go about this. I expect that you have already thought this trough.
So CCP Council, this time the ball is in your court, not the candidates court. How are YOU going to make the CSM able to touch the absolute whole community, and not just the vocal minority on the forums?
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Learyth
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.05 05:59:00 -
[2]
I just hope this whole CSM isn't a smoke screen. That the CSM oversight will actually have some meaning and effect. As compared to a PR tool. That is my biggest fear. Lavista if they people don't want to vote. Then they can't complain either. Everytime they log in. There is something about the CSM right there in the intro where they have to put in their password. So if they don't speak up. They have noone to blame.
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.05.05 06:13:00 -
[3]
ingame billboards should show something else but some boring faces recruiting -forum
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steejans nix
Amarr Crusader Enterprises Interstellar
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Posted - 2008.05.05 06:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: steejans nix on 05/05/2008 06:53:49
Originally by: Learyth I just hope this whole CSM isn't a smoke screen. That the CSM oversight will actually have some meaning and effect. As compared to a PR tool. That is my biggest fear. Lavista if they people don't want to vote. Then they can't complain either. Everytime they log in. There is something about the CSM right there in the intro where they have to put in their password. So if they don't speak up. They have noone to blame.
Think the vast EVE community share the same fear, very well put
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: steejans nix
Think the vast EVE community share the same fear, very well put
yes this fear has been expressed in various threads now.
Guys, stop bothering the candidates with it. Address CCP directly with this fear the candidates are not able to influence that, we will never be ABOVE ccp.
IF our work makes sense, depends on things outside our hands.
It depends on the voters (if 200.000 voters go and vote, CCP would be alarmed and probably listen much better to the council, than if only 100 voters vote their man)
It depends on CCP
It depends on nothing else.
Doubting the sense of this new institution in this forum is understandable, but counter productive.
If you have hope left that this might be something positive, then send your corp mates here to read and speak up and give us candidates some tough questions.
If you think this is all crap - stay out of here.
I do understand that worry, i share that fear - but there is no point in confronting the candidates with that ever and ever again since there is nothing we can do about this fear.
Its entirely up to CCP to counter that.
recruiting -forum
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Learyth I just hope this whole CSM isn't a smoke screen. That the CSM oversight will actually have some meaning and effect. As compared to a PR tool. That is my biggest fear. Lavista if they people don't want to vote. Then they can't complain either. Everytime they log in. There is something about the CSM right there in the intro where they have to put in their password. So if they don't speak up. They have noone to blame.
I agree, the lack of information from CCP is really disturbing, and does hint to it just being a smokescreen.
But the fact is that a lot of people just DOESN'T know about CSM. Ankh can testiment to this, just as well as I. I have talked to so many people, who didn't have a clue what it was.
It might be ok for the election(Though in the ideal world, everybody would be aware that an election was taking place), but once the CSM starts rolling, it's CRITICAL that everybody get heard, and is actually aware that they can get heard.
Not only is it crucial for CCP(Could lose customers, if only the vocal minority's voice is heard) and for CSM not to being acused of being biased.
The situation is very real. But only CCP can EFFECTIVELY fix it.
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Macmuelli
Gallente I Memento Mori I Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 07:36:36 Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 07:33:56
Getting in touch with the community is also a big part of work for the Csm canditates. At least CCP have open this , to gives peoples the chance asking questions to u, to see your positions on hot "things".
U can hire peoples, which try to get in contact to the community for u.
Open up , ts meetings( special servers away from your alliance) where u can anwers questions.
Introduce local disscusions about important things u will go for.
Talk to eve radio or similar things , for public relations?
Its up to u.
A lot of ideas can grow up , if u start thinking about, how u can bring yourself into it.
Some "fantasy" s needed.
breg mac
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
EVE FAN since 2003
äWode, Wode, hale dinnen Rosse nu voder, nu Diestel un Dorn, Schter jar beter Korn!ô
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 07:36:36 Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 07:33:56
Getting in touch with the community is also a big part of work for the Csm canditates. At least CCP have open this , to gives peoples the chance asking questions to u, to see your positions on hot "things".
U can hire peoples, which try to get in contact to the community for u.
Open up , ts meetings( special servers away from your alliance) where u can anwers questions.
Introduce local disscusions about important things u will go for.
Talk to eve radio or similar things , for public relations?
Its up to u.
A lot of ideas can grow up , if u start thinking about, how u can bring yourself into it.
Some "fantasy" s needed.
breg mac
No, you are wrong.
We have already held TS discussion(I have held 3), there is some buss on eve underground radio, supporters spreads the word ingame, etc.
So the message is already comming across. But you don't seem to realize, that there is groups of people, who aren't the audience of these things. It's the silent majority. We NEED to get in touch with these.
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Macmuelli
Gallente I Memento Mori I Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:53:00 -
[9]
Giving tools, to get in touch with the silent majority, should be really limited. At least some peoples are not interest in it like in real life.
"Politics.... mmmhhh.... i m not interest in it.... Leave me alone.....I dont want to think about it .... so plz ... He had scream realy loud....and have a nice jacket... i vote for him."
A way to them, could be messages if u pass a concord Billbord on the gate. Perhaps it increase there interest into it. Perhaps not.
???
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
EVE FAN since 2003
äWode, Wode, hale dinnen Rosse nu voder, nu Diestel un Dorn, Schter jar beter Korn!ô
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 07:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Macmuelli Giving tools, to get in touch with the silent majority, should be really limited. At least some peoples are not interest in it like in real life.
"Politics.... mmmhhh.... i m not interest in it.... Leave me alone.....I dont want to think about it .... so plz ... He had scream realy loud....and have a nice jacket... i vote for him."
A way to them, could be messages if u pass a concord Billbord on the gate. Perhaps it increase there interest into it. Perhaps not.
???
No.
The people I talked to, were quite interested in CSM, when I informed them about what it was. Why shouldn't this be true for everybody else?
It's in everybodies interest to make eve a better game. That is eventually the job of CSM, and that MUST be the interest of players, else they wouldn't play.
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Macmuelli
Gallente I Memento Mori I Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.05 08:24:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 08:25:38
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Macmuelli stuff ???
No.
The people I talked to, were quite interested in CSM, when I informed them about what it was. Why shouldn't this be true for everybody else?
It's in everybodies interest to make eve a better game. That is eventually the job of CSM, and that MUST be the interest of players, else they wouldn't play.
I agree that the csm project is a good idea and a hugh step forward to have peoples, which try to speak for the community.( at least having a chance , founding solutions for problems, or making this game more interesing). I agree, that it should be in everyones interest.
But what else then posting about it can ccp do? If peoples dont want to read the news, they dont do it. A lack of interest. And tools to get in touch with them, if they dont want, arent the way. They can be nerfed, and realy p... .
Perhaps the way is spreading more out and informing more peoples about it, and not waitng CCP is doing the work for u as canditates. If u wanne be the voice for the community, u should work hard for it and collect ideas/ interest/solutions/ problems peopls have with the game.Include founding a way into the silents ones. U should not wait, CCP gives u tools to get in touch with the silent majority.
perhaps i m wrong?
breg mac
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
EVE FAN since 2003
äWode, Wode, hale dinnen Rosse nu voder, nu Diestel un Dorn, Schter jar beter Korn!ô
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.05 08:33:00 -
[12]
It'd be a huge help if we would get access to NPC corp channels.
I suppose that that's more my kind of target audience, but then again my campaign was largely aimed at individuals, groups of friends and small corporations from the start. ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
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Macmuelli
Gallente I Memento Mori I Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.05 08:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Macmuelli on 05/05/2008 08:40:11
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah It'd be a huge help if we would get access to NPC corp channels.
I suppose that that's more my kind of target audience, but then again my campaign was largely aimed at individuals, groups of friends and small corporations from the start.
There u could read , whats there meaning. And asking what the would change. It would be a step for sure. U can do this also with an alternate char, as long your char slots arent used at all.
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
EVE FAN since 2003
äWode, Wode, hale dinnen Rosse nu voder, nu Diestel un Dorn, Schter jar beter Korn!ô
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.05 08:41:00 -
[14]
There are a lot more NPC corps than I have char slots, hehe. ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
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Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 10:45:00 -
[15]
What do you want CCP to do exactly?
Regarding the login MOTD, I requested that to be added by emailing Wrangler directly. He did his CCP magic dance and it appeared. If people are ignoring the login motd I'm a little unsure of what else is possible as it's quite prominent.
I've emailed him again asking that all account holders are emailed. I do not know if that is something they will do though but I've asked the question.
EvE blogspace, free! Max Torps CSM Candidate |
Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.05 10:53:00 -
[16]
How did you contact Wrangler? I was told to send a message by the petition devs to a certain address (not listing for obvious reasons) for the CSM Admin, but I haven't seen a change.
To be consise, the webpage that I had linked in the list of candidates no longer works, and I created a separate website. Now, I have no other option, as many people won't get to see my campaign views.
- Bunyip -Bunyip
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 10:58:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Max Torps on 05/05/2008 10:59:19 I sent it to his email address in his sig. This is where he invited candidates to contact him if they had any issues: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=761238&page=1#18
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Also, why not edit your signature to point to your campaign site? That might help get some traffic your way too.
EvE blogspace, free! Max Torps CSM Candidate |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: LaVista Vista This is a small discussion and a prayer for CCP, to help CSM. Till this point, CCP haven't really done too much to help CSM. And I'm afraid that it will have an affect on how CSM will run, the first time around.
I think it's important that we get in touch with the WHOLE of the community. And Agent Apple made a good post, about how we would manage to get in touch with the whole community. And it's a tricky thing.
CSM needs tools, so that they can get in touch with the people who doesn't read the forums and who doesn't read the in-game news. These are the people that will be overseen, and that SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!
I was researching into options for a dedicated CSM site, as a way for people to get in touch directly with CSM.
But really, it's just not viable, as it doesn't make a difference.
CCP, we have an issue here. We need your thoughts about how we go about this. I expect that you have already thought this trough.
So CCP Council, this time the ball is in your court, not the candidates court. How are YOU going to make the CSM able to touch the absolute whole community, and not just the vocal minority on the forums?
This concern is a well founded one and is in fact one of the biggest concern in all Real World elections, i.e. voters' apathy. We have several methods to battle it, but before I list them I will have to stress one thing. CCP will only direct people to the candidate section or the forums, we will never direct them to the candidates themselves.
Our arsenal to combat voters' apathy include MOTD (the message you receive at client's login screen), news on the front site of the EVE site, conventional media coverage (to get the message in from the 'other side') and EVE newsletters sent to all registered subscribers.
Again, we fully aware of the problem and we will hopefully be able to raise interest in the project via the means mentioned. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:12:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 05/05/2008 11:17:27 Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 05/05/2008 11:15:39 CCP Xhagen, is that all?
No offense, but the majority of players wont bother to read the website, the newsletter and probably wont see any 'conventional' media coverage about this. They will see the MotD but whether or not they'll read it is a different matter. Perhaps some cluster-wide announcements (the popup variety) can be arranged?
In addition to the election concerns, I also worry about the tools given to the CSM once a council is elected. We have heard about specific forums where players can support a topic and (I think) even rate ideas, however so far we haven't seen any of this, even though I think it will be a vital tool for the CSM. Is the development of this system nearing completion? Will CCP provide a ventrilo or teamspeak server (which many candidates agree will be required for the CSM to function), as well as a private forum where the candidates can discuss and share information?
Recruitment Director :: EVE University
DV for CSM |
Pizi
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal CCP Xhagen, is that all?
No offense, but the majority of players wont bother to read the website, the newsletter and probably wont see any 'conventional' media coverage about this. They will see the MotD but whether or not they'll read it is a different matter.
now im concerned about the low outcome of voters too , but what exactly should they do more ???
_______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
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fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:19:00 -
[21]
Some players are just ignorant and there is no way you can in touch with them because they simply don't care.
As to the CSM. E-o forums should be your major means of communication. But don't underestimate the amount of time it consumes to keep in touch with the players and CCP. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:25:00 -
[22]
Thanks for the prompt response, Xhagen! It is much appreciated.
But I do share the concern, that majority of eve doesn't read MOTD and newsletters, etc.
But I'm sure we can eventually sort it out.
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Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:26:00 -
[23]
I'm sorry but i think CCP are doing exactly what they need to do right now with regard to getting the message out. They are using the mass broadcast tools currently available in game to be able to contact all players. The only thing i think they could do more is evemail every player in game to let them know about the election and i can see two obvious problems with doing that. 1. its invasive. 2. 300k odd of evemails will hurt the servers i suspect!
The problem you guys are voicing is a very real one and one that i've felt in RL elections when i've stood. Anyone with a background in student politics for example could tell you the very real problems of getting people to care. Take a university campus as an example. 28,000 students in the university, two weeks of electioneering and how many votes elect the president of the student union? 3,000 votes. If the the CSM elections get more than a 15% turn out I will be applauding the candidates and CCP on getting people to turn out and vote because, put simply, the silent majority are that way because they don't care and their input is just that, silence.
I'm not saying don't reach out and try and touch people, but don't get so hung up trying to that you lose sight of what the people saying something are trying to get across. Most of politics is a balancing game of factors and the same will be true of the role of CSM.
Good luck to all candidates and I applaud the effort you've all put in so far and that you intend to put in if you get elected.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sapphrine If the the CSM elections get more than a 15% turn out I will be applauding the candidates and CCP on getting people to turn out and vote because, put simply, the silent majority are that way because they don't care and their input is just that, silence.
Funny, I was actually discussing this very thing, with Jade yesterday.
I stated that we should be very lucky, if we get 15%(33,000 accounts). I think 10%(22,000 accounts) is more realistic. |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:30:00 -
[25]
Thanks for the quick response CCP XHagen, I'll expect that newsletter by 5pm GMT ok? ;-) kidding of course!
And Sapphrine:
Originally by: Sapphrine
I'm not saying don't reach out and try and touch people, but don't get so hung up trying to that you lose sight of what the people saying something are trying to get across. Most of politics is a balancing game of factors and the same will be true of the role of CSM.
Thanks for the sage advice.
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:31:00 -
[26]
The one thing more that I think would make an impact would be doing in-game popups. That, in theory, would get people talking in chat channels about the election.
Other than that it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
CCP Xhagen, is that all?
No offense, but the majority of players wont bother to read the website, the newsletter and probably wont see any 'conventional' media coverage about this. They will see the MotD but whether or not they'll read it is a different matter. Perhaps some cluster-wide announcements (the popup variety) can be arranged?
Sadly that is the best we can do. It is the best we can do because we simply do not have other means to approach the player base. It is simply not realistic to go door-to-door or place a phone call to every single player. If we imagine the player being in place between two worlds, EVE and the real one, and we have messages coming in from both directions, shouldn't that be enough if the person wants to actually notice the message?
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
In addition to the election concerns, I also worry about the tools given to the CSM once a council is elected. We have heard about specific forums where players can support a topic and (I think) even rate ideas, however so far we haven't seen any of this, even though I think it will be a vital tool for the CSM. Is the development of this system nearing completion? Will CCP provide a ventrilo or teamspeak server (which many candidates agree will be required for the CSM to function), as well as a private forum where the candidates can discuss and share information?
The forum section is nearing completion. It will not open though until the elections have finished and the first council has been announced. I'm working closely (read: I'm asking him twice a day how things are going to make sure he is doing his job) with the programmer and what he has done so far looks very good. In fact I believe he is ironing out the last wrinkles before this is submitted to QA.
The project is on schedule and everything looks good. The only thing for me to do is to make sure that all the preparations in Iceland are as ready as possible before the council comes. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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CCP Xhagen
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Posted - 2008.05.05 11:43:00 -
[28]
Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 05/05/2008 11:43:31
Originally by: Kelsin The one thing more that I think would make an impact would be doing in-game popups. That, in theory, would get people talking in chat channels about the election.
Other than that it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Yub, that is one method we can use as well. Not that I'm calling our players horses or the elections water. ____________________________
EVE Online CCP Games |
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Virtuozzo
IVC Consortium Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:04:00 -
[29]
Please no popups. They have a tendency to get in the way :/
Broadcast to channels instead, that's perfectly possible.
CAOD FTW.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.05 12:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Xhagen Edited by: CCP Xhagen on 05/05/2008 11:43:31
Originally by: Kelsin The one thing more that I think would make an impact would be doing in-game popups. That, in theory, would get people talking in chat channels about the election.
Other than that it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Yub, that is one method we can use as well. Not that I'm calling our players horses or the elections water.
I dont think popups would be a good idea, people hate them, remember last time we had that outcry over the hall of commons or whatever it was that was announced through a popup?
Could we get the candidate thread updated please? ---
Consider voting for me in the CSM elections. Click the banner to watch the campaign movie.
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