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Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 10:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi folks
I have been using a T1 Drake fit to run my L3s. It was the first time I used a Drake for mission running and I was excited to see how I never got more than 50% shields with a ship.
I now got my reputation high enough to be able to run L4s. I would like to continue using the Drake, and was wondering if you could help with my upgraded fit:
Rigs 3 x Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Lows 1 x Shield Power Relay II 3 x Ballistic Control System II
Meds 2 x Large Shield Extender II 1 x Experimental 10MN Afterburner I 3 x Shield Hardeners II -- depending on mission a choice between the following:
1 x Photon Scattering Field II 1 x Invulnerability Field II 1 x Heat Dissipation Field II 1 x Ballistic Deflector Field II
Highs 6 x Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I -- with mission specific heavy missiles
Unfortunately Heavy Missile Launchers II are 10 days away but will get them asap.
- Do you think this is a viable fit for L4s?
- What do I need to improve?
Thanks all for taking the time to reply. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
22
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Posted - 2012.03.03 10:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:-> Do you think this is a viable fit for L4s?
Viable ... maybe. It'll take you for-freakin'-ever to kill battleships, and you may sometimes have trouble to break their tank at all.
Of course, you can always cherry-pick your lv4 missions. There are several that can easily be completed in a shuttle (Recon 1&2 and Cargo delivery, for example).
Zanzil C wrote:-? What do I need to improve? (other than the obvious T2 missile launchers)
CN ballistic control systems instead of T2s. They're a good investment and you can use them on any missile boat you'll fly later on, including Tengu, Raven, CNR and Golem.
Implants. Get the +5 missile launcher ROF ones and the target velocity/target signature 5% ones, and possibly the heavy missile damage +5% one (if you plan to stick with heavy missile boats instead moving to cruise missiles boats).
Keep some faction heavy missiles ready, you'll need the extra damage occasionally. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 11:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:-> Do you think this is a viable fit for L4s?
Absolutly. It won't be fast, but you shouldn't have any problems. Some Battleships will be hard to break, especially some of the guristas ones who orbit outside of drone control range (doesn't matter if you have Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing, haven't met a ship that orbits outside of 50km)
You obviously need a 7th launcher, I just take that as a typo... If not, get Engineering V asap (AWU is a good skill too, but it's not needed to get a full drake fit) You didn't mention your drone skills, if you don't have Hobgoblin II, get them asap
Your hardener choice is a bit limited, I'll post the best combinations for each rat type: Guristas: 2 Ballistic Deflection Field II, 1 Heat Dissipation Field II Serpentis: 2 Heat Dissipation Field II, 1 Ballistic Deflection Field II Angel: 1 Explosive Dampening Field II, 2 Invulnerability Field II Sansha/Blood Raider: 2x Photon Scattering Field II, 1 Heat Dissipation Field II
I haven't met a L4 I couldn't finish, though I didn't try AE Bonus or Dread Pirate Scarlet - Duo of Death can be a PITA, the battleships have on hell of a tank for a t1 drake - Definitly take CN Trauma Missiles with you for that one.
You can also use XR-3200 missile bays until you get t2. They're better than Limos (though worse than Arbalest - but without the outrageous price tag). Get used to L4's (triggers and spawns) before you fit CN Ballistic Controls - There's a difference in losing a 60mil drake and a 340mil drake. Other than that they're a good investment.
Implants have also been mentioned before, they're also a good investment - You hardly get podded in highsec, just don't autopilot in your pod. If you don't plan to stick with HMLs at least get the 3% Dmg implant - It was 20mil the last time I checked so no big investment for some good gain.
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Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
76
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Posted - 2012.03.03 11:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this, but use EVE Survival. If you are doing L4's in a Drake, you will need to have a plan for some of the missions to avoid spawning everything at once or aggro'ing everything at once. Sig tanking is the new black |
Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 11:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Wuxi that's exactly the sort of feedback I needed, appreciated.
In your opinion what should be the next ship I should be aiming at for L4s - within a reasonable time frame?
I'm Minmatar and currently skilling towards Heavy Missile Launcher IIs (10d) for this particular Drake fit.
Skilling for a Macha will take me only 8d but the price tag is way off my budget (190mil is what I've made from L1-L3 loots, including the expenses for a Rupture and this Drake)
I've also got a plan for a Loki (on the basis of being Minmatar) but that's gonna take 57 days, including the recommended certificates.
Feedback, ideas, suggestions very welcome! |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.03 13:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
With t2 launchers you'll make decent isk/hour in a drake, so a Machariel wouldn't be too far off. HML scream Tengu for me though, so you could take a look at them too. For pure isk/hour the mach would be better and training for it is definitly faster (a t2 mach with meta4 weapons, Battleship II and my mediocre support skills already deals 617dps in guns alone)
I don't like the Loki for lvl4s (and the Legion/Proteus as well) as they lack the range the Tengu (and Large Weapons) offer.
In my opinion it depends on what you're going to do: For L4s the Machariel is the best you can get and if you're going to stick with Minmatar anyway there's no point in not going for Machariel. If you're not so sure what you want to do (Missions, exploration, pvp) the t3 cruisers are a good way to skill. With Cruiser V and Medium t2 Weapons you'll have all the tools you'll ever need - HACs and BCs for PvP, Logistics for Incursions and PvP, t3s for Incursions, PvP, Missions and Exploration.
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Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 13:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the reply.
The limiting factor for the Macha is really the cost. Sure it must be a powerhouse for L4s but I don;t know how soon I'll make 1,5 billion.
Btw I tried a L4 mission with the drake I posted (with XR-3200 as per your recommendation) and the first time I barely escaped with 20% hull and in total I had to repair twice (cost 5,5 mil)
Not sure if it's worth doing L4s at this point. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.03 14:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Strange, I never dropped into armor. What mission did you fly? Did you stand still or did you move around? Drake is a brick and has the signature of a small moon, but you still mitigate some damage from battleships when afterburning around |
Ezram Iena
CareBears Ltd.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 14:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Exploited Engineer wrote: Of course, you can always cherry-pick your lv4 missions. There are several that can easily be completed in a shuttle (Recon 1&2 and Cargo delivery, for example).
That would be Recon 2&3, no way you're doing Recon 1 in a Drake.. There are other missions that a Drake just cannot tank (Enemies abound 1 and 5 would probably have too much incoming DPS, there are others as well).
So, * as someone else said, definitely check out the missions on eve-survival before you accept and try the easier ones * Learn the triggers for each mission * Get T2 light drones * Get T2 HML * Experiment with using a 4th hardener or a shield recharger instead of the AB for non-gated missions * Get some cheap implants. * Skill up for a Tengu or a BS.
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Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 14:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ok so the mission was this one http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=RightHandofZazzmatazz4
Pretty straight forward.
I followed your advice re XR-3200, thank you
I read in EvE survival that I need to tank heat, so fitted two T2 heat shield hardeners and a T2 Invul Shield.
As I couldn't afford T2 Drones I stayed with T1 Warriors (Minmatar Drone V, Drone Int V).
I usually orbit at 15-20 k with my 10MN AB switched on.
Do you see anything I'm doing wrong? (other than the lack of T2 HML and T2 drones)
Thanks! |
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Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.03.03 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'd switch to hobgoblins for thermal damage, its the recommended type to deal per that report. I don't like orbiting and prefer to burn away at a 30-45 degree angle initially and then zig-zag back towards the rats when I need to get them in range. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.03 14:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'll quote from Eve Survival:
Quote: Warning
Group 1 will inflict very heavy DPS at close range, make sure your ship is tanked properly.
Orbit the structure at 50km, kill the web/scram frigates and then take out the other ships on after another.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2914
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Posted - 2012.03.03 15:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:
-? What do I need to improve?
Get a Tengu
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
22
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Posted - 2012.03.03 15:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:Btw I tried a L4 mission with the drake I posted (with XR-3200 as per your recommendation) and the first time I barely escaped with 20% hull and in total I had to repair twice (cost 5,5 mil)
Buy two cheap hull repairers and two cheap armor repairers, fit them, undock, repair armor and structure, dock, sell hull and armor repairers, save 5.5 MISK.
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Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ezram Iena wrote:... That would be Recon 2&3, no way you're doing Recon 1 in a Drake.. ...
You probably misread - Exploited Engineer never told anyone to do Recon 1 in a drake, but rather gave the correct (and practical) advice that you can run nr 1 and 2 in a shuttle (or mvd throwaway frig).
The advice on getting hull/armor repairer is dead on, though you don't have to buy/resell them unless you move around, missioning, a lot. |
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
193
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Posted - 2012.03.03 16:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
My best advice OP, start working towards another ship. As many have said, you can, but you're severely limiting your max dps if you stick with a drake. Work towards a battleship if you want a big, bulky, less skill intensive ship or a HAC/T3 if you want smaller more skill intensive hulls. "Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes itn++ makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears |
Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 17:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ok thank you all guys for the awesome advice I will go for a tengu as it makes the most sense financially and operationally.
In addition to the Tengu-specific skill training, is it a good idea to go for the Tengu recommended certificates, or are they too much?
Thanks a lot for spending time with a little noob, your advice was greatly appreciate. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.03 17:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
You won't need the cruiser launcher control certificate - HAMs are hardly used for missions, the range is too low. The other two are very important (for most things, not only for the tengu) |
Crasswarrior
Bass Fishing Place
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 17:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't know what others use but I can do every lv4 mission in a drake including bonus room in AE though for that room had to warp out once. Trick is to use distance to manage aggro and mission guides. Triggers are critical to manage aggro My Drake gets 610 dps but reguires max skills and implants |
loki energon
Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.03 18:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
i know it sounds silly, but if you have the money, while you wait to train for your tengu, try getting another drake. as with most ships the choice is gank, or tank. as well as a salvager, i keep a second drake at my forward operating base. the first drake is the dps boat, 520+ dps, mwd for scooting about at 975mps, but only 25k ehp or so. there are 4 shield recharging mods, and a small pithi shield booster that i can run indefinately, its good for most L4s.
HAVOK (drake)
highs
7x HML II
mids
experimental 10mn mwd pithi c- small shield booster CN magnetic scattering amplifier CN heat dissipation amplifier invuln II shield regharger II
lows
CN ballistic control x 3 shield power relay II
rigs
shield extender ! shield purger I warhead rigor I
the second ship is more tank, this one i tried for a balance, you still need enough gank to kill bad guys, but sometimes you want some dam-ned TANK to through a mission. it runs 435 dps, and is alot slower with the AB, at 369mps, but she has over 61k ehp. i added the drone augmentor for a bit more applied dps at range.
DOMINATOR (drake)
highs
7x domination HML drone augmentor I
mids
2x invuln II 2x large shield extender II CN magnetic amplifier fed navy 10mn AB
lows
3x domination ballistic control shield power relay II
rigs
2x med shield extender I med bay loading accelerator I
this set up gives me two options for missions, i use the dps boat for regular just doing missions, works fine for most L4s. never had too much trouble with the BSs, i usually kite the red dots, and hammer away at distance, with the other ship, if i need to get in close, i have the tank to sit inna pile if i need to. ive on several occasions, used both inna mission, if i find incoming dps too great ill go get the tank. when the little guys are all dead, i can jet back for the dps boat to finish off any BSs that the dominator leaves behind. kill em all. |
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Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
41
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Posted - 2012.03.03 20:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Right Hand of ZZZZZZ first off requires heat and kin hardeners, if I recall correctly. However, the main thing is: THE ENEMIES DO A CRAPTON OF DPS AT CLOSE RANGE! Warp in at however far your missiles can reach, and stay at that range. The named cruiser deals quite heavy damage.
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Wuxi Wuxilla
Wuxi Corporation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.03 20:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
God, I haven't seen such bad fits in quite some time:
First things first - You don't ever mix active and passive tank for L4s - Unless you're deadly afraid of getting suicide ganked, which you shouldn't be - You're flying a drake after all.
Then you spend 150mil on faction/deadspace items for a really bad omnitank (at least I looks like that). You don't omnitank a drake, unless you're doing pvp or wormholes, which both aren't of interest to the op.
Quote: [Drake, !] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Hobgoblin II x5
Has 40% more tank, is actually capstable with MWD off and deals the same dmg while saving all that money you spend for fancy tank modules.
The 2nd fit is even worse - Again with that omnitank (with the best tank against Angel at a whooping 271dps), with Domination BCU (that have exactly the same dmg boost as tII) and with Domination Launchers (which are barely better than meta4). Yes, exactly - You spend roughly 500mil on stuff that's worse or at best equal to tII modules. The only perk of Domination stuff are the fitting costs and if you can't fit tII modules on your drake, then get decent fitting skills and don't spend 500mil on a t1 BC and for the love of all that is holy: Don't encourage players who're asking for help to do the same. |
Izziee
University of Izziee
49
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Posted - 2012.03.03 20:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:
-> Do you think this is a viable fit for L4s?
.
Honestly, no, no I don't.
Is it possible to do them for level 4's? Yes, completely. I wouldn't say viable though.
In fact, just because you can DO them, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
You would most likely make 4-5x more money running L3's and blitzing through them. You'd probably train up a battleship faster than completing a few missions also :p.
Drake is renowned for being a great tank this is true, even with terrible skills. Infact when I first started my L4's I took my maelstrom in (Was Buzz kill) and my tank was breaking super fast, I swapped over to the drake just to get a feel for the mission and it was hardly being damaged, but as for killing stuff, I had very very low missile skills (Was actually expecting to lose the drake, didn't care for it at all) and stuff just took FOREVER to kill. I never touched that mission again until recently, now I wonder what the fuss was about.
I wouldn't bother tbh, it would be more hassle than it's worth. Train up for a battleship and stick with L3s unless you are a patient person and would make more money doing L4's (Which per hour, I doubt)
I see far too many people these days saying "I do L4's in my drake!!11!!1" as though it's a special thing. Yeah? and? How fast do you do them? I actually started out with a Domi originally and I loved it, but after properly skilling up for my Mael, I was shocked how I ever even coped at how slow it was, and the Domi is still a lot faster than a drake! Hell, my drone skills were 5x that of my gunnery skills when I made the change to the maelstrom and it still pissed it so hard out the water it wasn't even funny (Really! was not funny! Realising how much time I wasted). I was never comfortable with my mael tank wise until a while later, the DPS helped a lot clearing it, but there were a few heart pounding moments even when I was careful, yet with my domi I could pull the whole room with every trigger and just AFK it.
So while you'd probably tank them more than fine, you'd die of boredom anyway. I'd strongly suggest training for another ship, personally I never really liked the Raven, still think the DPS is lacking in comparison but many love it, especially the Navy one, and if you're skills are all in missiles go for it I guess. Patience REALLY pays off in this game in terms of skills, and I saw a massive MASSIVE difference from T1 projectiles to T2, it was just the 50 days that put me off for so long, but it's just something completely worth doing. |
Izziee
University of Izziee
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 20:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote:Thank you for taking the time to reply. Wuxi that's exactly the sort of feedback I needed, appreciated.
In your opinion what should be the next ship I should be aiming at for L4s - within a reasonable time frame?
I'm Minmatar and currently skilling towards Heavy Missile Launcher IIs (10d) for this particular Drake fit.
Skilling for a Macha will take me only 8d but the price tag is way off my budget (190mil is what I've made from L1-L3 loots, including the expenses for a Rupture and this Drake)
I've also got a plan for a Loki (on the basis of being Minmatar) but that's gonna take 57 days, including the recommended certificates.
Feedback, ideas, suggestions very welcome!
I'd scrap everything to be honest and start training T2 Projectiles and fly a maelstrom, but that's just me. By the time it's all fully T2 fit, you'd have enough cash for 5 machs, a lot of experience with L4s, and will be flying through them like no bodies business.
I don't like missiles for many reasons, but the main one being they don't help you cross train if you ever decide to change race, all the gunnery skills are going to help you regardless of who you fly, even some Caldari ones. Min also use missiles but guns and pew pew are their main system.
Like I said, I'd suggest going for a mael, but if you're not confident in tanking with it (and it isn't a "great" tank with low skills) then you could get a few drone skills up to IV and grab a domi, dual armour rep it, AFK L4's while learning and training for a mael/mach and then when you got them, your drone skills won't have gone to waste either, and you'll have a Domi sitting by for whatever. A cheap ship capable of a lot, and doesn't matter if you lose it. Sure, it's armour and minny are shields, but just throw some meta 4 stuff on it with like 3-4 hardeners, it will still tank like a champ.
Hell, the great thing about the domi is you can just throw some auto cannons on there (helping you to dual rep) which would out damage rails anyway most likely so you wouldn't need to train for hybrids and you can just swap the guns over to your mael when you get it. |
Firebolt145
Gunpoint Diplomacy
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
The fit loki energen linked is quite frankly terrible. Don't use it.
A standard t2 drake should be able to do all missions. Some slow, some faster, but decently.
You should never be within 30km of the enemy rats tbh. Use drones to take down all the frigates, particularly the ones that are webbing or scramming you. Other than that, use the afterburner to go ~50km from the rats and just AB around over there. Drop a cargo container with 1 missile and orbit that at 5km if you don't want to manually pilot.
Read www.eve-survival.org as others have said and pay careful attention to all the triggers etc. Good luck.
edit: Regarding your next ship: Machariel is pretty much the no.1 missioner out there and doesn't take long to train for, but as you said the hull cost can be a turn off. Since you're already training for HMLs etc, a Tengu would definitely be your next natural progression ship. In terms of isk/hr the Tengu isn't too far off the Mach. |
loki energon
Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 03:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
its funny, ive used fits ive seen from folks here, from Battleclinic, fits ive gotten from friends. one thing ive learned, use what works. ive fit and flown 15 or more different fits for the drake, just tweaking with it. the best part of Eve is the ability to choose from thousands of different mods to bend and twist any ship any way you like. i expect nothing less from the troll gallery than to shoot down any idea thats not from the box they troll away in. i souldnt mix active and passive mods? why? they work great together. dont use faction mods to save a % on power grid or CPU? why not, i have the isk i can spend it the way i want. please remember Trolls of Uberness, not every player has all skills relating to all things at lvl5. and as for not using blingy ships just because you might get suicide ganked.....thats Eve right? lol you pays yer money, you takes yer chances.
i guess i wont post my nano-cargo expanded-salvaging-tractor-hurricane fit........ kill em all. |
Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 07:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Izziee pretty much nailed it - it takes me 2 hours per mission in my Drake, not to mention the amount of missiles. I don't like missiles at all, I loved how my Drake tanks, but missiles aint for me.
I am skilling towards a Mael (4d) and will see how it goes. Recommended fits, tanking tactics would be very welcome.
Thanks again
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Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 08:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
You should focus on your battlecruiser skills first, these give u the most immediat benefits. As for tanking, just stretch away from the rats. BS are usually slow so you can ignore them when u go out of their range and focus on the rest. Frigates will be the fastest and cruisers usually come behind them. Ideally you want your drones to take out the frigs so you can focus on cruisers and the like. One thing u do want to avoid is being completely tackled, so it's a good idea to take out the frigs first . One neat trick is to warp in at 70k take out the frigs that might we and tackle you and begin to take out cruisers. If you are taking to much dmg warp out then warp to zero and begin again, so in effect your controlling their movements (this is also good to practice in pvp). However, if you are spending long hours in a mission it might be advisable and more profitable to just do LVL 3 missions or ask a corp friend to join your missions at least until you get the your skills up. |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.03.04 09:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zanzil C wrote: ....
it takes me 2 hours per mission in my Drake, not to mention the amount of missiles.
...
you think ammo consumption is bad with the Drake, wait until you see how much ammo AC equipped Maels and the Mach chew through...
The Mael, like Caldari ships, is a shield tanker so if your having survivability issues with your Drake then your going to have more problems with the Mael at this point if, as it sounds, your skills are low. Speaking of skills, any chance you could post the character in question on http://eveboard.com/ so we can see what we have to work with, then we can better provide training and fitting advice. |
Zanzil C
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 07:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thanks all for the assistance
The character I'm trying to skill towards an effective L4 runner is http://eveboard.com/pilot/Zeus_C
Any suggestions will be appreciated
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