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Elphy
Minmatar Warp badgers with guns
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:09:00 -
[1]
Reading the Raven setups thread in the stick i see people talking about perma tanking with XL Shield boosters and playing about with EFT and my not bad shield skills the only way I can get a true perma active tank with an XL booster is using 5 * CFC which gimps my dmg to around 350 dps without BCU.
If I drop it down to a large then it will go up to about 550 dps but then will that hold up under the DPS from the harder lvl 4s?
This is of course not just about pure tank as the more dps the faster you kill rats and thus reduce the dmg you are taking.
So the question is, with experience being the best teacher would you go for tank or gank?
tl;dr
XL Booster = ~350 dps ~1000 HP/cycle L Booster = ~550 dps ~450 HP/cycle
Which is better and why? |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MuffinsRevenger on 06/05/2008 12:12:03 XL booster even t1 named will sufice, L will strugle with quite a few of them Long story short, XL |
Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:24:00 -
[3]
In my own experience with a low skillpoint Raven, the Large booster just wont keep up, even with four racial hardeners, on some of the higher DPS missions. I assume, to get 450 HP every 5 seconds, you're running some heavy duty amplifier(s). At 450 HP/5, you're reaching exactly 100% of the HP/second that my T1 XL hits... which happens to be enough boost for all but a handful of missions.
To sum it up, the Large should cover you with resists around 82% + 75% (Primary & Secondary types) for all but the worst missions. Any lower resists and I believe you'll start running in to troubles. |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:28:00 -
[4]
i used to run large booster for about a year on my raven.. and did all missions fine. now my brother uses XL booster fit and its very nice also.
i havent flown a raven in missions for a while anymore as i just dont do missions anymore :P ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:29:00 -
[5]
No eft at hand, but it might be easily done if you invest in a deadspace L shieldbooster (wich arent as stupid expensive as the xlarge ones).
Same with drake and level 3 missions, i used to use a setup with a pithi b small sb, sba, 10mn afterburner, 3 hardeners and 3 bcu's, worked more than good for every level 3 mission: Verry good damage (for a drake), pretty fast and with good cap skills and 2-3 ccc's you can permarun everything.
Might be worth checking if you can convert this drake setup to a raven setup. It would be something in lines of this then:
High: 6x Cruise II 2x Whatever
Med: 1x 100mn Afterburner II (deadspace ones preferred, cheap) 1x Gist/Pith A/X-type Large SB (not sure here, i think Gist) 1x SBA II (or a deadspace/faction one) 3x Hardener II
Low: 3x BCU II 2x PDS/CPR II
Rigs: 3x CCC
Drones: 5x Hammer II 5x Hob II
Again, im not sure if this will work and what people with more experience in lvl4's think of this. Anyone have some thoughts on this? ***Sig***
Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^ |
Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:34:00 -
[6]
To help put it into perspective for myself, I setup my own Raven and what I imagined yours looking like, in ETF. Here they are:
My XL Setup: http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/569/ravennewsetup1bo4.jpg Your L Amp Setup: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9118/ravenlargeboostersetupul7.jpg
I was surprised to find that, at the same shield resists, they both perform remarkably similar. ---
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:40:00 -
[7]
The only half-decent reasons to go for a PERMA-tanked XL fit are:
a) if you're running the mission in an extreme lag area and you just can't pulse the booster properly when needed, nor can you manage to bring down the enemies fast enough or b) if you want to do the mission half-AFK (FOF cruise, drones, etc) and can't be bothered to manage your tank at all
For everything else, a L perma-running setup or a pulsed XL setup will work just fine most of the time.
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Elphy
Minmatar Warp badgers with guns
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:41:00 -
[8]
So in the case where they are performing more or less the same the large booster would be preferable as it allows you more dps while keeping the tank sustainable. However if the mission involves alot of dmg very quickly then pulsing an XL and the loss of dps is preferable over being blown to dust.
In general then it would appear that using a large booster is best for most missions as you can kill faster and thus make more isk/h and the XL booster is better for missions like AE/SE bonus room and The Blockade where you need more tank. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tamoko To help put it into perspective for myself, I setup my own Raven and what I imagined yours looking like, in ETF. Here they are:
My XL Setup: http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/569/ravennewsetup1bo4.jpg Your L Amp Setup: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9118/ravenlargeboostersetupul7.jpg
I was surprised to find that, at the same shield resists, they both perform remarkably similar.
Now open THOSE two setups, and put this one right next to them for comparison : Drake
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Elphy
Minmatar Warp badgers with guns
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Posted - 2008.05.06 12:57:00 -
[10]
Thats nuts. I was wondering how you got those numbers until I added the rigs
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.06 13:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/05/2008 13:11:15
And to think there are people that actually active-tank their Drake... *sigh*. Or, people that claim Drake is crap for L4 missions. Sure, it's not *great*, but it's dirt cheap and gets the job done in relative safety.
1|2|3|4|5. |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.06 13:23:00 -
[12]
I pled guilty on active tanking a drake and likeing it better than passive.
Far as useing a T2 large booster on a raven goes. I tried it. Didn't work out so well. Just doesn't throw in enough sheild/sec on the harder level 4s. Now I use a meta 4 XL booster along with a heavy cap booster for "panic mode". Things work out much better. |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.06 14:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 06/05/2008 12:48:03
Originally by: Tamoko To help put it into perspective[...] My XL Setup: http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/569/ravennewsetup1bo4.jpg Your L Amp Setup: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9118/ravenlargeboostersetupul7.jpg
Now open THOSE two setups, and put this one right next to them for comparison : Drake
Note : just the launchers on the Ravens are worth almost twice as much compared to the entire Drake setup (ship, rigs, fitings). Granted, the implants and skills make a huge difference, still... same damage against kin-weak enemies, almost triple the tank power... ouch.
Jesus, how did you manage to get the DPS up to 500?
In EFT with all lvl 5s, Caldari Scourge, 2 BCUII, and 6 HMLII, I only get around 300 DPS. |
Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.05.06 15:58:00 -
[14]
Heh heh, that DPS is nice, but the screenies I took were with around 400K SP in missile launcher operation :P ---
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.06 16:39:00 -
[15]
XL offers the same sustained tank, but if you can afford to fit it gives you the ability to pulse large amounts of damage which is nice for those nasty situations. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.06 17:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Quote: Drake
Jesus, how did you manage to get the DPS up to 500? In EFT with all lvl 5s, Caldari Scourge, 2 BCUII, and 6 HMLII, I only get around 300 DPS.
I certainly hope you mean 7 HML-II... it's a Drake, not a Nighthawk.
Also, it's 402 DPS, not 500 DPS damage output, look at the picture again. And a decent portion it comes from drones (not maxed-out there either) Besides, look at the implants. There's a 5% RoF implant right there.
Well, come to think of it... you can improve the damage a bit more Have a look at what you CAN do with faction ammo and the proper implants (sacrifice a bit of tank for damage) with "all L5" skills... the 506 DPS Drake
But hell... why stop there ? Keep on pimping ! Don't even LOOK at the price ! Let it rip ! Not to give you a scare or anything, but presenting... the ultimate 630 DPS Drake
__
CSM candidates - quick reference cards Don't be a social moron, read and vote after you decide !
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.06 18:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Quote: Drake
Jesus, how did you manage to get the DPS up to 500? In EFT with all lvl 5s, Caldari Scourge, 2 BCUII, and 6 HMLII, I only get around 300 DPS.
I certainly hope you mean 7 HML-II... it's a Drake, not a Nighthawk.
Also, it's 402 DPS, not 500 DPS damage output, look at the picture again. And a decent portion it comes from drones (not maxed-out there either) Besides, look at the implants. There's a 5% RoF implant right there.
Well, come to think of it... you can improve the damage a bit more Have a look at what you CAN do with faction ammo and the proper implants (sacrifice a bit of tank for damage) with "all L5" skills... the 506 DPS Drake
But hell... why stop there ? Keep on pimping ! Don't even LOOK at the price ! Let it rip ! Not to give you a scare or anything, but presenting... the ultimate 630 DPS Drake
Forgot about the drones. And yes, 7 HMLIIs. Sorry. |
Aleis
Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.07 05:44:00 -
[18]
Not really on the topic of Caldari but if we're compairing command ships i'd have to say I like my slepnier, XL boosted for that matter as well.
557 DPS and Maybe a tad bit over tanked
Gang Assist Guide |
0SpaceRaider0
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Posted - 2008.05.07 06:23:00 -
[19]
m8, may i`m wrong... but with this resis ur 1394 hp shield boost wont secure ur ship when u got stage aggro. try serpenstis :) u will get so many 400 hits that u would need 2 more shield booster to compensate this :)
but may i?m wrong an it works, but i dont beleeve it
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Aleis
Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.07 06:40:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Aleis on 07/05/2008 06:41:58 I'll admit it's a bit scary to see your shield drop to below half all the time but they get boosted right back up to full, I've done all lvl 4 mission on full agro no problem.
Warp in stop and start shooting, flip to tremor for the long range bs.
the 1300 is dps, it gets 2500+ per 4 sec cycle and with the base resists at about 50% across the board it works for all missions against all anamies, just have to pop any Cap vampires before they get in range which isn't hard.
Gang Assist Guide |
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Sekh Ondaari
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Posted - 2008.05.07 07:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aleis Edited by: Aleis on 07/05/2008 06:41:58 I'll admit it's a bit scary to see your shield drop to below half all the time but they get boosted right back up to full, I've done all lvl 4 mission on full agro no problem.
Warp in stop and start shooting, flip to tremor for the long range bs.
the 1300 is dps, it gets 2500+ per 4 sec cycle and with the base resists at about 50% across the board it works for all missions against all anamies, just have to pop any Cap vampires before they get in range which isn't hard.
Are you using this setup? Where? |
Dearest Wish
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.07 07:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dearest Wish on 07/05/2008 07:09:24 /\/\/\ Use a locater agent nubbin
Originally by: 0SpaceRaider0 m8, may i`m wrong... but with this resis ur 1394 hp shield boost wont secure ur ship when u got stage aggro. try serpenstis :) u will get so many 400 hits that u would need 2 more shield booster to compensate this :)
but may i?m wrong an it works, but i dont beleeve it
you're absolutely insane if you don't think that fit can tank every mission full agro. He could lose about 300dps tanked and still tank Serp side of WC without the smallest problem. |
AsfALT
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.07 07:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aleis Not really on the topic of Caldari but if we're compairing command ships i'd have to say I like my slepnier, XL boosted for that matter as well.
557 DPS and Maybe a tad bit over tanked
Can you please post the setup you linked (i can't open the link...)in a sleipnir for lvl 4's and am curious on how you got that dmg.
Thnx. |
Aleis
Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.07 08:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Aleis on 07/05/2008 08:32:49 Edited by: Aleis on 07/05/2008 08:28:16 I don't actualy fly the setup anymore as it was way over tanked, cut back on most of the really expensive stuff it was mainly a test on how much i could get a single shield boost cycle to hit for as much as anything.
where.... OIRK-A i think
as it was High 7x 650 II 1x Standard Launcher Mids Gist X-type XL Booster Gist X-type Amp Gist C-type Amp Tacking Comp. II Palisades Cap recharger
Lows 2x Domination Gyro's 1x Hakim's Tracking enhancer Page cap flux Setele's PDU
Rigs 2x CCC II
Drones 3x Valk II 2x HammerII
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma and Tremor for range With a Full crystal set and some other combat implants
For a far cheaper version use a Gist C-type booster, and cheaper boost amps, will also let you drop the officer PDU, and down grade some of the other cap mods as it doesn't require as much.
Was just fun running lvl 4's with no hardeners
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AsfALT
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.07 10:10:00 -
[25]
Well seaing as we already derailed the thread :) i will continue with the sleip (claymore has poor dps) setup :)
I was thinking of something along the lines:
7*720 II /1*heavy missile
gisti A type Large booster/3*hardner/1*Ab
3*rf gyro/2*DB pdu
This gives about 480 dps which it just dosen't seem good enough for me...
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Aleis
Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.07 10:49:00 -
[26]
I not a big fan of the 720's personaly, the damage bonus is minimal and with less tracking even less for close in work. As for extra range carry some tremor ammo with your 650 II's, and your optimal will be out beyond the Sleps targeting range anyhow.
which will let you get around needing the PDU's for power grid, try a cap flux if you need more cap, they work.
Gang Assist Guide |
Horeta
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Posted - 2008.05.07 12:25:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Horeta on 07/05/2008 12:27:12 perma XL:
[Raven, Raven Missions ] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Cap Recharger II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
max 2 invus for permarun, and only 2 BCS's hardeners choose mission specifik. guri: 2 kinetik + 1 thermal.
if 4er capskills, switch CFC for third CPR and use without invus. |
Aleis
Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:04:00 -
[28]
don't those Cap power relays sort of defeat the purpose of running a XL booster?
espesialy if you need to run 3 of them.
Gang Assist Guide |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.07 13:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Horeta Edited by: Horeta on 07/05/2008 12:27:12 perma XL:
[Raven, Raven Missions ] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Cap Recharger II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
max 2 invus for permarun, and only 2 BCS's hardeners choose mission specifik. guri: 2 kinetik + 1 thermal.
if 4er capskills, switch CFC for third CPR and use without invus.
i never said you could post my raven setup!!!! I personally drop the boost amp and throw on 4 hardeners.
and the 2 cap power relays drop boost amount a bit, but its still more than a large shield booster.
there is a 4 bcu perma run lsb setup i came up with a while back. throw a set of crystals at it and away.
and yes holy turd burglers, get them cap skills 5/5
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.07 17:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Aleis don't those Cap power relays sort of defeat the purpose of running a XL booster?
espesialy if you need to run 3 of them.
They take some off the boost ammount. but since you can run the sheilds booster much longer it hardly matters. Long, long time ago I ran a old missile ferox useing a CPR+sheild booster and it did fine. Come to think of it I have to see if that old fit can be converted to today's drake.
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