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Blind Jhon
Amarr Alenia psy departement
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Posted - 2008.05.09 16:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Blind Jhon on 09/05/2008 16:57:36 Edited by: Blind Jhon on 09/05/2008 16:50:45 MEGATHRON: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
RAVEN: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Cruise and Siege Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo Velocity per level.
APOCALYPSE: Special Ability: 10% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor use and 7.5 bonus large energy turret optimal range per level.
TEMPEST: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire and Large Projectile Turret damage per level.
Mega has 7.5 to traking since i've start playng same for the 10% of raven apoc has been bosted now 10% to cap usage and 7.5% to max range.... tempest is the only ships that has remain the same.
now.... boost the damage? NO too much alpha on artys....
my idea is: give him a 7.5% (instead of 5) RATE OF FIRE BONUS (which is a bit hight even for ACs)
this should bring his dps from 378 whit maxed skills to near 440.... 48 dps beyond the mega..
mine is just an advice not 100% sure this will works (only at 99% ) but i'0m sure tempest is being outclassed by other tier 2 bs under every point of view.....
hoping this will bring a contructive discussion
sig removed, it broke our forums - Mitnal |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.09 16:53:00 -
[2]
bonuses are one thing that arent broke on pest :P
double damage bonus is very nice.
mybe increase the damage mod of the guns a little bit but not ship bonuses ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Klavayne
LFC Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.09 17:04:00 -
[3]
You do realise that in going from 5% to 7.5% you almost double the damage bonus it gives?
1/(0.75) = 1.333 1/(0.625)= 1.6
Sorry, but no. Thats not the right way to balance a tempest. Also, you contradict yourself, "Mega has 7.5 to traking since i've start playng, same for the 10% of raven...tempest is the only ships that has remain the same". The second bit is obviously untrue, since youve just said it yourself the others haven't changed either.
And you should probably notice that the bonuses larger than 5% are not to damage but to range or tracking and don't directly affect the damage dealed.
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Waxau
The Fated Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 17:20:00 -
[4]
OP - Your char name is very suited to you. That is all.
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Blind Jhon
Amarr Alenia psy departement
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Posted - 2008.05.09 18:28:00 -
[5]
i've been smaked by all, but....
Originally by: Waxau OP - Your char name is very suited to you. That is all.
HEY i've done one thing right
so my idea dont balance anything but it does the opposite effect
anywais... is actually the tempest weak between other bs or is just a mine noobish point of view?? sig removed, it broke our forums - Mitnal |
Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.09 19:07:00 -
[6]
I dont have much experience with tempest, so i wont comment on how much it is in need of a boost.
However you way to compare the battleships is seriously flawed. The bonusses are totally different, and you just look at the percentages.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.05.09 19:28:00 -
[7]
Matar BS suck, but not so much because of the bonuses.
The real problem, already pointed out here, is the fitting - especially for large artillery. Tempest has other issues (i.e. using lows for its tank and less efficient weapon upgrades due to split weapon system). The other problem I see with their weapons in general is that they deal less dps overall (no cap drain, so that's not so bad), but they also operate inside of falloff range most of the time. That's a double whammy, and when you add in the horrible fitting of large artillery, it's just not worth it.
None of that has to do with the ship bonuses tho, haha.
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Asteroid Bandit
NOPHEX PRISIM
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Posted - 2008.05.09 22:11:00 -
[8]
..... EFT warriors.
The tempest is the tool for alliance based combat. Its dual bonuses, respectable buffer tank, and ability to fit multiple sensor boosters and tracking comps make it the sniper ship of choice. Every ship has a use, and the pest is not designed for solo PVP. Learn to love it for what it is good at, sitting 180km away throwing down a ridiculous amount of alpha.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.05.09 22:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Asteroid Bandit ..... EFT warriors.
The tempest is the tool for alliance based combat. Its dual bonuses, respectable buffer tank, and ability to fit multiple sensor boosters and tracking comps make it the sniper ship of choice. Every ship has a use, and the pest is not designed for solo PVP. Learn to love it for what it is good at, sitting 180km away throwing down a ridiculous amount of alpha.
There was a fun thread related to this exact topic awhile back that leads me to believe in fleet combat situations the "alpha strike" as an important feature is entirely overrated. Apparently the more important numbers are sustained DPS and EHP.
That being said, in short duration battles (ganking people at gates for example) high alpha has an advantage over high DPS/low alpha.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.05.09 23:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Asteroid Bandit ..... EFT warriors.
The tempest is the tool for alliance based combat. Its dual bonuses, respectable buffer tank, and ability to fit multiple sensor boosters and tracking comps make it the sniper ship of choice. Every ship has a use, and the pest is not designed for solo PVP. Learn to love it for what it is good at, sitting 180km away throwing down a ridiculous amount of alpha.
if there is one thing where tempest suck is in taht role
As fleet sniepr its outdone by mega, all 3 amarr BS and maelstrom, and rokh. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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kessah
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.10 00:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Waxau OP - Your char name is very suited to you. That is all.
Waxau you are hilarious on the forums. Anything Caldari you defend any other race gets the big FU.
Odd that dont you think?
Been avoiding coming to clash with you on forums, but you just entered a domain u dont know a thing about, reguardless if uve an alt or not. All i can say is, if u can say this guy is blind while u can actually defend the falcon im losing all respect for you right now...
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.10 00:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Blind Jhon ..
Sorry man, but I can't agree with you.
You're totally correct in seeing that there is a problem, but I think you're missing the boat as far as what needs to be done to fix it. Keep coming up with ideas. :)
I'm personally a fan of giving the pest a 7th turret, moving slots around, or buffing autocannons.
Artillery itself is a subject in sore need of attention, as has been aptly demonstrated numerous times.
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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kessah
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.10 02:17:00 -
[13]
Il add further to this.
Im quite sick of people in 0.0 alliances branding battleships as fleet only - fitting them with artillerys, rails and beams as if this is there sole purpose. Cross comparing races for this purpose.
Ive never fit a battleship with longe range weapons for near on 2 years and i swear many in my profession in eve dont either. So when i see battleships i see them from the other side of the fence.
Autocannons are a different calibre when compared to the other two turret types in eve, especially Large turrets, massivly requiring ship bonuses to make use of them.
The Tempest is a solid ship and with eve progressing as it is, CCP have put a massive strain on medium slots, requiring players to fit ECCM (tbh dual ECCM to counter near permanant jam) and this fortunetly the tempest can handle, unfortunetly the tempest lacks the lows for dmg mods or an effective tank. This is the same with alot of ships so i dare not complain.
Whats bugged me most over the last year or so is the recent trend in plates, subjegating nearly all armour tanking battleships to shrug off all active armour tanking / cap management skills; in favour of just sitting there like a complete numpty activating guns and hopeing you dont get jammed to death.
The Tempest and its 5 meds slots was and still is my last saviour for active armour tanking, for some reason 1 heavy cap injector simply doesnt cut it anymore for active tanking with the advent of rigs so your stuck using that last med slot for a final cruiser sized injector. Thats fine im ok with that, though this is the EXACT reason why the damage output is just not enough anymore, plates run EvE's pvp now and it takes longer to chew through plates than to keep an active tank going.
Basically pvpers go buffer and big guns, so why not have ships like the Tempest lean on the 'long game' and make ships like the abaddon and megathron fear the Pest like they did in the past, somehow use its falloff, slot layout and versatility to lend it some advantage in the field.
In brief, my personal view on the Pest is to give some long thought... Because its not as easy to fix as the Apoc was.
Finally though, please stop viewing battleships as alliance fleet op play thing. Alot of other players choose to use these ships in close quater combat and dont really give much thought to the maths people put across such as Alpha stike...
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Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.10 02:23:00 -
[14]
Tempest is still a awsome Ship, not for DPS or Tank but for flexiblity. DonŠt underestimate Med Slots for EW.
If it stays out of Web Range and uses 2 Heavy Neuts it simply pawns. DPS could use a boost, but Im more for a 7 Turret Slot Pest, giving the people a choice, instead of a simply more DPS with the same Fitting.
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Nerf Lasers! Thay need far to less CPU and Grid to Fit. Still using not enught Cap and do far to mutch Damage. O wait... they allready did... =( |
Acinonyx Jubatus
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.10 04:33:00 -
[15]
I say, give the tempest 100% bonus to damage per level and no other bonus, that'l lsort your alpha right out and proper.
I keed ofcourse... carry on.
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deadmeet
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:21:00 -
[16]
Tempest is probably the BS with the worst tank. At least, give it a decent DPS.....
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.10 08:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jill Antaris Tempest is still a awsome Ship, not for DPS or Tank but for flexiblity. DonŠt underestimate Med Slots for EW.
If it stays out of Web Range and uses 2 Heavy Neuts it simply pawns. DPS could use a boost, but Im more for a 7 Turret Slot Pest, giving the people a choice, instead of a simply more DPS with the same Fitting.
Yep... Tempest is amazing. I haven't flown one in ages, and I never even dared fit artillery to it.
Autopest ftw... just it doesn't kill stuff like my mega.. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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Schnitzar
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Posted - 2008.05.10 10:04:00 -
[18]
Solo tempest scares me...
Think about soaker armor tank, AC's and energy neuts, friend uses that setup and it's definately not underpowered.
And as far as bonuses go. DOUBLE DAMAGE BONUS, what would you honnestly prefer?
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.05.10 11:54:00 -
[19]
There has to be a "worst" BS. People will never stop whining.
Apoc as the worst BS was fairly useless , outclassed by the other 2 BS of its own race. Tempest by contrast is rather unique , and interesting for pilots with relatively low SP focused on armor tank and gunnery. Phoon needs high missile skills to shine , mael requires shield tanking skills. Pest is something you can easily fly right after the cane or rupture.
Its versatility can be priceless compared to raw performance , as well as tactical flexibility - a mega will always be predictable , a pest has many options in combat.
So it is not a critical imbalance. So many other ships have issues and were made redundant (celestis anyone) which should warrant more attention than a single ship being slightly subpar stats wise.
Originally by: Bloody Puppy because it's a good game because it's a good game because it's a good gameeeeee ccp gonna nerf it
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 12:09:00 -
[20]
The Tempest probably is the worst BS currently. But it is not nearly as far behind as the old Apoc was, and makes up a lot of its lack of performance in flexibility. I actually enjoy flying a Tempest atm. I don't expect any kind of stellar performance out of it, just solid groundwork. And that it delivers in many aspects.
If it gets a boost, I would say give it more pg and maybe 100 drone bandwidth. And the Fleet tempest deserves a 7th turret.
You want ME for the CSM!
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT
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Posted - 2008.05.10 12:11:00 -
[21]
^^ This
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Suboran
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.10 13:03:00 -
[22]
Tempest is fine, everything about it feels minmatar, and it has an immense alpha strike with arty, and with autocannon it has the benefit of autocannon falloff coupled with the double damage bonus. After all it is minmatar and perhaps doesnt tank as well as other races but it is still a monster.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.05.10 14:48:00 -
[23]
hummm it may have alpha strike, but i wouldn't call it immense. i don't mind the meager dps, so i could live with another dmg mod increase at the cost of rof.
or fiddle with the ammo a bit here and there; i'd like to think of phased plasma as some hybrid-wannabe ammo but it just doesnt compare... at all... since the emp/expl nerf to resistances, it's just emp ammo all the way - or tremor for fleet fights.
oh and with the introduction of overheated webs, falloff-slashing tracking disruptors etc, the falloff-race could use some love there aswell - putting the gist back into logistics |
Ruciza
Minmatar The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.05.10 15:11:00 -
[24]
Tempest was considered great all the time, and now all of a sudden, for no reason at all, with no changes, it's suddenly crap. Who takes threads like this seriously?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.10 15:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ruciza Tempest was considered great all the time, and now all of a sudden, for no reason at all, with no changes, it's suddenly crap. Who takes threads like this seriously?
The forums say so.
And the forums are never wrong. WHO ARE YOU TO GO AGAINST THE WILL OF THE FORUMS!? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 16:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ruciza Tempest was considered great all the time, and now all of a sudden, for no reason at all, with no changes, it's suddenly crap. Who takes threads like this seriously?
The tempest itself has not changed, but ships and modules around it as well as some game mechanics have changed. And the addition of the Maelstrom prolly is a large factor in the now bad evaluation of the tempest too.
But like I said, while probably being the worst BS atm, it is not crap by a long shot. And one of them kinda HAS to be bottom of the heap. As long as there are still enough people who enjoy it despite being effectively the worst one, I would say that is an indication that something is RIGHT.
You want ME for the CSM!
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction
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Liang Nuren
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.10 16:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ruciza Tempest was considered great all the time, and now all of a sudden, for no reason at all, with no changes, it's suddenly crap. Who takes threads like this seriously?
The Tempest was considered one of the greats of all time. Then: - They nerfed ECM -- The Tempest's EW mid lost a lot of value. -- We adapted to use Damps instead
- They nerfed Nos -- The Tempest's two "utility highs" lost almost all value.
- They boosted Neuts -- We adapted to use neuts, and the utility highs gained some value -- The cap use of Neuts greatly limits the utility of an active armor tank -- Without an active armor tank, you must fit plates, which hampers its vaunted mobility
- They nerfed Damps -- EW Mid slot lost almost all value -- We adapted, to fit ECCM, second web, or med injector
- They boosted TD's -- EW mid gains some value -- Autocannons are horrendously nerfed
So, as we can see: - ECM nerf - Nos nerf - Damp nerf - Neut boost - TD boost (AC nerf)
At the same time, they've provided significant across the board boosts to Caldari and Amarr.
Yeah, "no reason at all".
-Liang --
Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.10 16:49:00 -
[28]
IMHO the Minmatar BS might need a bit of a boost.
It could be a slight boost to Large Autocannons&artillery (perhaps a boost of artillery overall. Frontloaded damage is worth a lot less today than it was 2 years ago. Yet arty is unchanged). But what I think what the minmatar BSs need the most is a small boost to agility (merely increasing turning rate and acceleration, but not boosting top speed) and perhaps (in the case of the Tempest) a small boost to top speed. That would make it a bit easier to play a bit with range, which is (IMHO) the traditional Minmatar strength (in particular against in-your-face blasterboats).
Possibly giving the Tempest a bit more cap as well. The Tempest cap was perfect when you could mount 2xHeavy NOS in the highs to keep it going all day. These days it's not all that.
Keep in mind though that I'm talking about small boosts here. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 17:33:00 -
[29]
Whoever said the pest was now the worst, but not nearly as far behind the pack as the apoc was, is correct.
The pests' effective nerfs have been through loss of its ability to project its versatility - 5th mid, 2 utility highs. The way to improve it is obviously to increase its versatility. I propose +grid for utility highs (btw, it can already comfortably fit 2 remote rep there which is ******* awesome, sacrificing 0% gun dps, unlike apoc, baddon, rokh, mael, phoon, domi, hype, and having a way easier time fitting them compared to the raven, mega or geddon), whic hnow gives you the effective choice of launcher, neut or Remote rep. I also would reccomend -->150m3 drone bay, 100mbit bandwidth. This provides a slight damage boost, and a massive versatility boost (If having a choice of heavies, ECM or warrior II isnt uber versatility, what is?).
Frankly, those changes would make the pest a beast. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Ortos
Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.10 18:10:00 -
[30]
Without overpowering it. Gotta say it before someone cry's nerf.
pushed random button got smiley, gotta see which one it is.
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