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indiana bones
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2012.03.04 11:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Scanning down signatures in null, I've always just lauched my 8 probes and never had a problem scanning any site down.
Someone in local yesterday said "How many probes?" and indicated that the mechanics had changed and was a bit overkill. After a bit of searching I've not managed to find a definitive answer about this.
So I'm just wondering, how many does it take to find even the lowest strength signatures? I'm using a covert with good skills, rigs & sisters launcher and probes. Not got probe implants, but never needed them.
Cheers |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
360
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Posted - 2012.03.04 11:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
indiana bones wrote:Scanning down signatures in null, I've always just lauched my 8 probes and never had a problem scanning any site down.
Someone in local yesterday said "How many probes?" and indicated that the mechanics had changed and was a bit overkill. After a bit of searching I've not managed to find a definitive answer about this.
So I'm just wondering, how many does it take to find even the lowest strength signatures? I'm using a covert with good skills, rigs & sisters launcher and probes. Not got probe implants, but never needed them.
Cheers
5 Probes scan down most anything, but occasionally a 6th probe must be brought in at the .25 a/u level.
This is with Astro- skills at 4 or 5. Less than that, it can indeed take quite a few probes...and some things just will not be resolvable at all. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Mr Chili Palmer
Aegis Coalition Logistics Dark Legion Alliance
43
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Posted - 2012.03.04 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
i use 5 with no problems |
Something Random
The Barrow Boys
130
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Posted - 2012.03.04 12:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I use 5, and always have even in the first iteration of scanning. Nowadays i rarely even need a covert either, ive maxed the skills to at least 4, and the majority are 5.
Typical kit nowadays is anything that can have launcher, salvager and at least 1 of the scanners without gimping firepower too much. Sisters Probes. "caught on fire a little bit, just a little." "Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangsn++ all here!" |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
136
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Posted - 2012.03.04 22:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
you can scan any sig anywhere with 4 probes. the correct number to use for the fastest probing is 8. you also need to know how to lay them out which i'll let you figure out on your own. |
Sir Livingston
Viziam Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2012.03.04 22:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
I always drop 8 probes just in case. It only take a few more seconds Explorer's Log an ongoing video log chronicling my adventures as an explorer of New Eden Click to watch: http://www.youtube.com/user/JonnyPew?feature=mhee Join chat channel: Club Deadspace |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
578
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Posted - 2012.03.04 22:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
I agree with jack.
You **can** scan anything with four probes, but it is much much much quicker to use an appropriately setup of eight probes.
I used to be rather vocal on the you-only-need-four (or five) front, until I learned how to use eight efficiently.
Now, if I only have one or two sites to scan I use a deep-space plus four core probes. However, if I have anything more than just a few I use eight core probes ... RSS if it's gonna be a seriously demnding session sifting thru dozens of sigs.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2012.03.04 22:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
About the only thing you can't scan down with 4 probes are very weak signatures in k-space and ships that used to be unscannable completely.
That said, 7 or 8 probes will get you results faster than 4 or 5, and I think you need 8 to be able to get 100% on ex-unscannable ships (that and implants; i can't speak from personal experience because I haven't tried). There's some debate out there re: 7 probes vs. 8 probes, too, but a lot of it comes down to your skills and probe placement. Personally, for core probes I recommend no less than 7 because launching and arranging them the first time is only a tiny bit slower than 5 probes, and you can get >25% hits at 8au range for larger sigs on the first go. Not only that, but since at 8au the overlapping area for the probes is quite large, you're also more likely to get more than one sig to above 25% on first pass. All of this adds up to quite a bit of time saved if you're doing a lot of exploration. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
45
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Posted - 2012.03.05 09:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Used to be that only 4 probes were used to calculate a result. This was changed to all probes (with incarna?) - so more is better now.
Now if you can scan down sigs with 4 probes or not depends on your probe strength. Most of you seem to be in a bonused ship with good skills and all - i would wonder if you couldn't scan everything even with only 4 probes with those.
Otherwise a probe strength of around 80 i think will enable you to scan down even the weakest signatures, but you need 7-8 probes then. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
238
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Posted - 2012.03.05 10:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
8 probes of course. Being able to pin about any sig in two passes is bliss. |
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Vito Antonio
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.03.05 12:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
can somene suggest how to use 8 probes?
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Lockjaw Jones
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.03.05 13:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
PPP PSP PPP
P = Probe S = Ship
Have the probes all slightly overlapping at the ship point.
thats how i do it anyways. :) |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
238
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 14:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vito Antonio wrote:can somene suggest how to use 8 probes?
Geometry to the rescue! There is only one regular hexahedron, meaning a symmetric 3-dimensional shape with 8 vertices. This allows for a shape where all probes are equidistant from the signature in the middle, maximising your total scan strenght.
It's a very familiar shape, and very fast and easy to execute.
HINT: it's a cube.
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Vito Antonio
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.03.05 15:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
They don't sell geometry skillbook at Jita |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
238
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Posted - 2012.03.05 15:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
No worries, I happen to have a few of those unused. They normally sell for 180-200mil, but I think we can make a special deal only for you my friend - convo me in game and we can work out the details!
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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
579
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 19:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roime wrote: HINT: it's a cube.
A cube is not the quickest 8-probe pattern to use. It's a good pattern for getting maximal probe strength onto ' target' and so you're more likely to be able to resolve a site at, say 2AU, with eight than with 4 or 6. Using 8 probes in a cube is fiddly and fairly time consuming to setup and doesn't save you a whole lot of time over using 4 or 6. A little but not a lot.
Look around, think a little, and mebbe do some goggle searching.
When you stumble across or think-out some of those other approaches you may well kick yourself .... "Why did't I think of that?" I certainly did (kick myself that is).
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 21:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
dont use a cube, dont use a square.
the reason to use 8 probes is that you can have 4 at 4-8 AU and 4 at 0.5-1 AU meaning you never have to resize your probes or adjust your probe position.
i made a video a couple months back on how i do it but i can't find the damn youtube link... if anyone has it, feel free to post it. |
Mnemosyne Gloob
Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc.
45
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 23:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's quite nice how everyone talks about probe patterns (which is sort of important, yes), however OP asked if he needs to use more than 4 probes to be able to lock down signatures. That has more to do with probe strength than paterns for quicker scanning.
My observations: with around 80 probe strength you can lock down any sig, but you might need 7-8 probes for the hardest ones and zoom in a bit. You can do this in an unbonused ship with good skills and a bit of equipment. Otherwise in covops or t3s with scan subsystem you will most likely easily surpass this number and should never have troubles scanning down signatures. |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 00:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:It's quite nice how everyone talks about probe patterns (which is sort of important, yes), however OP asked if he needs to use more than 4 probes to be able to lock down signatures. That has more to do with probe strength than paterns for quicker scanning.
Yes, but someone above did ask about how to use 8 probes effectively. No reason not to contribute answers, even the OP might find something useful in them.
Personally, I did some testing with 7 probes arranged in a center-east-west-north-south-up-down position and the cube using 8 probes. I have to say that comparing these two, the 7 probe set up is actually better, that central probe makes a big difference. Setting up the 7 probe arrangement is also faster although the cube is nothing difficult as well with a bit of practice, really only somewhat slower. If using 8 probes, I second the recommendation for arranging them as 4 probes at something like 4 or 8au, overlapping, and then 4 probes right at the center of the overlap, at 1 or 0.5 au (obviously not right on top of each other, move them away from the very center but keep some overlap). However, this method doesn't scale very well with poor probe strength. If you have great skill and use implants, then this is the simplest way to make great use of 8 probes. Lacking in probe strength, though, you'll spend more time resizing and possibly ******* up resizing because shift-resize doesn't really work than you would if you were just using 7 probes. That's been my experience in testing the setups on characters, varying probe strength.
You can also set up a 7-vertex shape with an eight probe in the middle by doing something like this: 1 central probe, 4 probes below in a square, 3 probes above in a triangle. However, setting up 7-vertex figures is more of an exercise in being creative than in efficient scanning. Just use the 4 bigger and 4 smaller set up if it works for you, or either the cube with 8 probes or the cube with 7 probes where one is in the center (other 6 probes marking faces of the cube rather than vertices). The latter two are pretty interchangeable when it comes to scan results in most cases, and one is faster to set up than the other.
All of the above is categorized as "IMO" since I haven't seen any quality scientific studies on the matter, and I really can't be bothered conducting one |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 01:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ah, found it. Here's how i use 8 probes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Ag
Probes are at 1 and 8 au. (These days I have virtues so i have the inner set of probes at 2au instead of 1au.)
As a note, setting up each set of 4 in a tetrahedron gives stronger results but it messes up the ring results and takes a lot longer to set up. |
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
241
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 07:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Good discussion, I'm somehow perverse and love scanning, and I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve :)
Substantia Nigra wrote: A cube is not the quickest 8-probe pattern to use. It's a good pattern for getting maximal probe strength onto ' target' and so you're more likely to be able to resolve a site at, say 2AU, with eight than with 4 or 6. Using 8 probes in a cube is fiddly and fairly time consuming to setup and doesn't save you a whole lot of time over using 4 or 6. A little but not a lot.
Look around, think a little, and mebbe do some goggle searching.
When you stumble across or think-out some of those other approaches you may well kick yourself .... "Why did't I think of that?" I certainly did (kick myself that is).
I stayed away from cube for some time, because I also regarded it as fiddly, but then I figured out how to make a cube in 7 moves and never looked back. Alt-resizing was a real game-changer :)
Rings and false results are ultra rare, and like you said, probe strength is amazing. I get yellow marker readout results (>25%) at 8AU, 100% at 2AU.
That video technique posted by Jack is interesting and I will try it, but it seems to be much fiddlier to set up and needs two passes just to read a sig type, with the cube I get warpable result in two passes. Combined with an initial DSP scan to filter out unwanted bands, it's so fast it feels almost like cheating. |
Pleasure Boy
LUX Uls Xystus LUX aRe us
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 07:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
When only 4 Probes did count I got used to using a square with an additional fifth probe in the middle for easier resizing (done by hand back then) so now I basicly still use the same setup with a second probe in the middle, one slightly above the square and one slightly below. Works fine so I never had a reason to try something else.
But perhaps it's time to learn something new and try out a 7 or 8 Probe setup. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
167
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 15:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
7 probes for me though I'll give Jack's 8 probe setup a twirl, seems to work well. |
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