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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:33:00 -
[1]
Gsus Christ, it just isn't possible to sell anything in Jita. Ever tried to sell some rigs? I'm bored to death actually, sitting in this station since 40 mins now and watch beeing undercut every 2 minutes by at least 2 guys.
Please please please with sugar on top: Set the transaction change delay to at least 30 minutes! This is ridiculous business!
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:36:00 -
[2]
1) sell to buy orders
2) find somewhere else
3) ??
4) profit
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
5th Anniversary Lottery
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Space Explorer
Minmatar
Evil Fluffy Bunnies
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Posted - 2008.05.16 10:59:00 -
[3]
1) create sell order and find out you mistyped and now selling an item allmost for free.
2) hope nobody in Jita will notice for 40 minutes
3) ??
4) loss
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Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:06:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
Gsus Christ, it just isn't possible to sell anything in Jita. Ever tried to sell some rigs? I'm bored to death actually, sitting in this station since 40 mins now and watch beeing undercut every 2 minutes by at least 2 guys.
Please please please with sugar on top: Set the transaction change delay to at least 30 minutes! This is ridiculous business!
If they did it, market camper would have 6 orders set after 5 minutes and he would still pwn you.
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:06:00 -
[5]
1) create a eve-online forum thread with reasonable demand
2) watch 2 guys post complete nonsense while considering stupidity was never that low on earth
3) what was that bottum line?
4) ah, priceless!
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Robacz
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
If they did it, market camper would have 6 orders set after 5 minutes and he would still pwn you.
Sure ... everybody has like 200.000 marketorders, right? 
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Freya Runestone on 16/05/2008 11:14:46
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
Originally by: Robacz
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
If they did it, market camper would have 6 orders set after 5 minutes and he would still pwn you.
Sure ... everybody has like 200.000 marketorders, right?
failed at quoting.
Anyway, isn't it the exact same thing you're doing? listing cheapest price with .01 undercut?
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:24:00 -
[8]
I guess you are not skilled and ready for market camp PvP.
If you want to entertain yourself, read MD forum frequents trying to decipher why people massively undercut them when the goods will sell anyway.
As been mentioned incresing the change delay will hurt market casuals more than market pros.
All in all stop producing and do something profitable.
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.05.16 11:46:00 -
[9]
1) buy the parts somewhere else then sell in Jita
or
2) buy the parts in Jita then sell somewhere else
but
3) buying parts in Jita and selling products in Jita = no profit in rigs manufacturing
or
4) stop posting complains, adapt to the game
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 12:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Freya Runestone
failed at quoting.
Anyway, isn't it the exact same thing you're doing? listing cheapest price with .01 undercut?
Me thinks you fail at reading  Isn't that exactly what i'm complaining about? For you in detail:
- selling low is not a problem
- undercutting in general is not a problem
! What is the problem, is the frequency of undercutting. At least at stations/systems where you can sell the stuff in less than a week. In the real world you can't simply change prices every 5 minutes. Orders have to binding. At least for 30 mins imho, better some few hours. You have trade on 5? 57 remaining orders? 200 CCC rigs? well, then go undercutting every 5 minutes with new orders of 5 or whatever, i'm fine with that. But i doubt that the vast majority will/can do this
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 12:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
1)
2)
3)
4)
This is not about Jita, nor about profit. You will experience this undercutting stuff in every populated system, mission hubs like kakakela, saila, kaunokka to name a few ...
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Taedrin
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.16 12:28:00 -
[12]
Cut the price all the way down close to the break even point. If they are gonna make it so you can't sell anything, the least you can do is screw them over with their profits. If they undercut you again, cancel the order and move somewhere else.
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woddel
Gallente
CH Manufacturing and Trading
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Posted - 2008.05.16 12:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
This is not about Jita, nor about profit. You will experience this undercutting stuff in every populated system, mission hubs like kakakela, saila, kaunokka to name a few ...
well, undercutting is happening in every trade hub. just like you that wants to sell stuff, so do 20 others. too much competition. i suggest selling stuff in other good tradespots like rens, amarr or oursualert, or even farther off (can be very successfull too, even at better prices). for myself, i only go to jita to buy stuff.
cheerios, woddel
---
creator and maintainer of eve-commander
complete web based character information tool. |
Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 13:49:00 -
[14]
and 2 more genius postings ...
... Slybootalarm ¦
Dudes, please please please with sugar on top. Don't tell me how to avoid a ridiculous game mechanic! Don't tell me to just live with it, adopt to the game or all the other s***. Don't argue about profit, cause that IS NOT the point! The header you are obviously missing is TIME
State why you want that cooldown reduced to 1 second. Tell me why a 30 min or 4 hour cooldown would ruin the game. Come on, you can do better than that!
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.05.16 15:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
This is not about Jita, nor about profit. You will experience this undercutting stuff in every populated system, mission hubs like kakakela, saila, kaunokka to name a few ...
Yes I agree with you that the permanent undercutting by 0.01 is boring as hell, but what !? The game is as this, place your sell order and review it once or 2 per day. Nowadays 80% of the threads are from people complaining about the actual game mechanics and asking for changes, but what !?
if EVE sucks and bores you, leave EVE, otherwise adapt.
you see, it's not about Jita
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 15:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
if EVE sucks and bores you, leave EVE, otherwise adapt.
This really cheered me up mate, thx for your eloquent reply 
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:30:00 -
[17]
If you can't stand playing the undercutting game, put a sell order low enough that the undercutters will buy your stock rather than undercutting again, problem solved.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:43:00 -
[18]
If you absolutely need to sell within the next 40 minutes, sell to buy orders. If you can wait place the items at the price you think is right and return after a day. Usually they will sell. If not drop your price a notch as it is too high.
Your problem has nothing to do witht he mechanic of the sell orders, it will be exactly the same if the time was 30 minutes, someone would undercut you and you would have to wait 30 minutes to undercut him, then he would do the same. It is because there are too much producers for a limited market. EVE has 200K potential buyers but 200k potential producers too. I am convinced that there are several thousand people that produce constantly, so you are competing with a lot of people and some of them value the work they do less of what you value it so they will underbid you as all they get for them is profit, even if it is 1 isk.
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:49:00 -
[19]
CCP recently introduced a new feature that allows players to place sell orders outside of Jita.
--------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"
Enjoy your time away from our forums.
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Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:50:00 -
[20]
Don't waste your time with the OP because clearly he/she is the reincarnation of Einstein and we are all idiots in comparison.
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Silvana Kor'ah
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 16/05/2008 16:59:33
Originally by: Shadowsword
If you can't stand playing the undercutting game, put a sell order low enough that the undercutters will buy your stock rather than undercutting again, problem solved.
This is unbelieveable. Is my english so bad that noone understands or am i really alone one this one? 
What pro argument is there for the current 5 minute timer? I don't get it, pls enlighten me !!!!!!
I can tell you about the benefits if the timer was set longer, shall i?
 following the so often quoted "risk vs. reward" ... if the time would been set to 4h hours fe. one can choose to take the risk of getting undercutted many times by seting a higher price, or vice versa live with low profit and less risk
prices would tend to rise and fall slower in long terms, giving investors a more stable market
obviously, a more relaxed trading experience as one has not to check all his trading points every 5 mins. he maybe undercut every 2 mins by new orders, but he knows that can't change his the next 4 hours!
and last but not least, a more realistic economy. Imagine MC Donalds would change their prices every 5 minutes when burger king did the same all the time 
And the negative effect? Again, i don't see any. Those "arguments" that ppl will just make more orders isn't an argument at all, as it's no negative, just a possible alternative. Which in fact is limited by max. active orders, and could be furthermore limited by only one active order of a specific item at a specific station/system/region.
I'm wasting my time here. Doubt that i will get any reasonable comments here 
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Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.05.16 17:06:00 -
[22]
Another example of a thread about the game that got hijacked and turned into a debate on the people that play the game. Sad, really, that there are so many people out there incapable of putting forward any sort of intelligent points about the game itself.
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Brodde Dim
Unseen University
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.16 17:26:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
Gsus Christ, it just isn't possible to sell anything in Jita. Ever tried to sell some rigs? I'm bored to death actually, sitting in this station since 40 mins now and watch beeing undercut every 2 minutes by at least 2 guys.
Please please please with sugar on top: Set the transaction change delay to at least 30 minutes! This is ridiculous business!
I doubt 30 minutes would help very much. Everyone who is trading seriously has got a number of alts with enough sellorders to change them stupidly often. Imho you would need to change it to 12 or even 24h to get some effect. But that would also make the market less dynamic, and trading a lot more boring.
And like lots of people have tried to tell you allready. Dont complain if you are part of the problem. If you are in a hurry to sell the stuff, use the buy orders, or atleast set a low enough price so nobody will undercut you. If you need the extra profit, sell it somewhere else, and have some patience.
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.05.16 17:29:00 -
[24]
I would guess that the timer is there only to make it easier on the servers. CCP policy seems to be not to put limitations on things when they aren't necessary.
I'm not sure why you would need a longer timer anyway? You put out some arguments, but those seem like changes so you can stay at the top of the market game, without actually playing it constantly. Those changes would be fine by me, but I still don't see why people who actively play the market should not have a edge over a player, that doesn't want to actively play with it? Putting a longer timer would just make things boring for those that want to use their time actively playing with the market. So why try and kill a style of play just because you dislike it? I guess I'm not seeing what the fuss is about.
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Gark32
X Bane X
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Posted - 2008.05.16 18:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
CCP recently introduced a new feature that allows players to place sell orders outside of Jita.
This.
________________________________________________
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Helix Fluxx
Caldari
Contempo Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.16 18:21:00 -
[26]
You do realise there are other places you can sell your products. Places which aren't called Jita, and that actually exist beyond the stargates there?
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Shakuul
Caldari
Extreme Addiction
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.16 18:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shakuul on 16/05/2008 18:26:21
Originally by: Silvana Kor'ah
I can tell you about the benefits if the timer was set longer, shall i?
following the so often quoted "risk vs. reward" ... if the time would been set to 4h hours fe. one can choose to take the risk of getting undercutted many times by seting a higher price, or vice versa live with low profit and less risk
prices would tend to rise and fall slower in long terms, giving investors a more stable market
obviously, a more relaxed trading experience as one has not to check all his trading points every 5 mins. he maybe undercut every 2 mins by new orders, but he knows that can't change his the next 4 hours!
and last but not least, a more realistic economy. Imagine MC Donalds would change their prices every 5 minutes when burger king did the same all the time
And the negative effect? Again, i don't see any. Those "arguments" that ppl will just make more orders isn't an argument at all, as it's no negative, just a possible alternative. Which in fact is limited by max. active orders, and could be furthermore limited by only one active order of a specific item at a specific station/system/region.
I'm wasting my time here. Doubt that i will get any reasonable comments here
Since you seem to be unsatisfied with everyone else's response, I'll try to address each of your individual points.
Going along with your risk vs. reward. You want a higher reward, so you undercut a little, but RISK being undercut a lot. Alternatively, you want a lower reward, so you undercut a lot, but don't risk being undercut as much.
You would get exactly the opposite. Longer transaction times mean LESS stability. If you can change orders instantly, market prices can respond instantly. If you could only change orders every hour, or every day, or whatever, then market prices will take that much longer to respond.
A "more relaxed trading experience" seems to just mean that you don't want to do as much work/time to make your ISK. Everyone wants this with everything. I might have a "more relaxed mining experience" if I only had to empty my ships cargo every hour, but that doesn't mean CCP should implement the change to make the game easier for me.
A more realistic economy? What? First of all, its a game, so nothing is realistic. Secondly, trading in EVE is far more similar to some sort of stock/futures trading than to buying a burger at McDonalds in terms of how quickly prices change. With stocks, prices change in fractions of a second; in EVE, they can change in minutes. With McDonalds, they change over months.
If you're so hung up on your sales example...look at Gas stations. Whenever one drops its prices (or raises now, given the oil price trends) the one across the street undercuts (or also matches the raise).
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Faife
Noctiscion
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.16 18:57:00 -
[28]
what can i tell you, the trading world is a cold cruel pvp place.
at least you dont have to update your clone and buy your modules again after you get undersold.
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Syniztur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.16 22:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
1) buy the parts somewhere else then sell in Jita
or
2) buy the parts in Jita then sell somewhere else
but
3) buying parts in Jita and selling products in Jita = no profit in rigs manufacturing
or
4) stop posting complains, adapt to the game
or
5) Un-install EvE
Fixed!
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| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! |
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Gentle Miner
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.16 22:07:00 -
[30]
Undercutting is great for the consumer.
One thing about this that jumps out at me is if they keep undercutting each other then when it gets to a certain point just buy all the competitions merchandise and resell.
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