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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:43:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Toolivus on 22/05/2008 15:45:07
Originally by: Arana Tellen I think the N.exeq has a couple of things over the thorax. Its faster and lighter along with the likelyhood to fit bigger guns.
Yes it misses out on the drones but the guns are up to it.
Being faster and lighter, while nice since it will be appreciably faster (though quite what the mass difference equates to after plating it I'm not exactly sure yet), it's not all that useful once you get in web range (which you need to be for blasters). I'm really not sure there is a role for it where it's speed bonuses will shine.
As far as fitting bigger guns goes, it doesn't really open up any setups that are better than a comparable thorax. Mostly because of the huge differences in drone bays. The guns are simply not up to it. Fitted for maximum gank the thorax will put out 594dps (158 from drones) with max skills while the n.exeq will give you 543 (79.2 from drones). The difference gets bigger with skills at level four.
So you have a ship that is faster and lighter in a role where that is not so much of a boon, and has a lower damage/hp ratio in a role where damage/hp is the most important part. If there was a better option would you take it? If that better option was cheaper too would it even be a question?
That said, it's gonna need to be as fast as it can be to catch any of the other new ships, so maybe that'll help push it over the edge.
also, Mothermoon, Arana Tellen's maths is right as far as effective turrets goes. It also gets a little more of a benefit from using more damage mods since it's got a slightly higher effective turret count, not enough to offset the drones though.
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Gaogan
Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: MotherMoon
25% damage increase and 25% rof double the damage. Thus, it's worth 8 turrets not 6.25
at least that's why I've always understood they says the ruppy has a double damage bonus.
No, it is called double damage bonus because there are TWO bonuses to damage. 1.25 / 0.75 = 1.66, not 2.
The Navy Exequror needs to keep its 4 med drones... in fact, why not go for 80 m3 bay with 40 gb bandwidth? They added that whole bandwidth thing supposedly so ships could carry spare drones.... how many actually can? 3? With 4 med drones it might actually do as much damage as a thorax but with a bit more speed and the spare drones allow for some versatility.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Is it just me or is the new Exqueror absolutely PATHETIC? Yes, it looks kinda nice (finally back to its organic-ish skin in classic graphics), but with only 4 turrets its completely outclassed. Fair enough that its tier 1, but the base ship's tank is already lacking so much its sad. Its only saving grace would have been a drone bay, but it doesn't get that (even the OTHER SHIPS get 25m3!).
Thorax - 180m/s, 12,000,000kg N.Exeq - 250m/s, 9,750,000kg
In other words, Navy Exeq is approx 60% faster. It's a nanoship. ...
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:20:00 -
[34]
Which is useless for blasters and about 75% meh for rails.
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Ishina Fel
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:57:00 -
[35]
Oh wow the Navy Omen is pure pimp! I want one now. Even though I'm training for the Zealot.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Toolivus Which is useless for blasters and about 75% meh for rails.
She's Caldari - she's not expected to understand close-range combat :p ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO |
SilverSoldier
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:38:00 -
[37]
LMAO at the gallente tears. amarr has lived without an equal tier navy cruiser for ever since theyr out(augoror is tier 1 compared to caracal tier 3) finally we get a good navy ship to pimp around 2 :D.
about the execuror(rightly spelled?), please stop comparing it to a thorax(real tier 4) when its based from a tier 1 ship. the augoror is hardly comparable to a tier 4 faction ship neither.
ofcourse you could try to get it boosted by devs to uber levels by 40 page whining threads. after all that worked in the past didnt it? id rather see people use its stats and make it a uber ship using ingame resources. not outgame forumwarrior style. as i can see it, it could be a cool nanoer. ofc in the end its just a pimping ship.
just my 2 cents, silversoldier
ps: AMARR VICTOR! just to stay in the empyrian age RP style. |
SkyCrane
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: SilverSoldier LMAO at the gallente tears. amarr has lived without an equal tier navy cruiser for ever since theyr out(augoror is tier 1 compared to caracal tier 3) finally we get a good navy ship to pimp around 2 :D.
about the execuror(rightly spelled?), please stop comparing it to a thorax(real tier 4) when its based from a tier 1 ship. the augoror is hardly comparable to a tier 4 faction ship neither.
ofcourse you could try to get it boosted by devs to uber levels by 40 page whining threads. after all that worked in the past didnt it? id rather see people use its stats and make it a uber ship using ingame resources. not outgame forumwarrior style. as i can see it, it could be a cool nanoer. ofc in the end its just a pimping ship.
just my 2 cents, silversoldier
ps: AMARR VICTOR! just to stay in the empyrian age RP style.
Just a little additives to this post...
Why should the Exequror be better than the Augoror? I have yet to see anyone actually use the Augoror for something usefull except dust-collector.
Anyhow, looking forward to test the Omen :) ------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :) |
Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: SilverSoldier LMAO at the gallente tears. amarr has lived without an equal tier navy cruiser for ever since theyr out(augoror is tier 1 compared to caracal tier 3) finally we get a good navy ship to pimp around 2 :D.
about the execuror(rightly spelled?), please stop comparing it to a thorax(real tier 4) when its based from a tier 1 ship. the augoror is hardly comparable to a tier 4 faction ship neither.
ofcourse you could try to get it boosted by devs to uber levels by 40 page whining threads. after all that worked in the past didnt it? id rather see people use its stats and make it a uber ship using ingame resources. not outgame forumwarrior style. as i can see it, it could be a cool nanoer. ofc in the end its just a pimping ship.
just my 2 cents, silversoldier
ps: AMARR VICTOR! just to stay in the empyrian age RP style.
1) Historical arguments are null and void when it comes to balance. All that matters is how it is now, and how it can be changed. How it was is merely a something you look at to help in the process of getting it right now and in future.
2) Treating different tiers separately won't help balance overall*. What should be balanced are all of the options you have to achieve something (and all the different things you could want to achieve). Having balance between tier one faction cruisers is meaningless if there is another option that is better in every important way. Who would use a n.exeq when a thorax does everything better and cheaper? If something else's stats are just better, no amount of ingame resources will make it more worthwhile.
3) These are not gallente tears so much as balance tears. I haven't really looked at the n.aug since I thought it wasn't changed too much from before and holycrapthatstonsofhp. If I can be bothered I'll take a look and maybe add it to my cause. If it has issues, then that still doesn't change the fact that the exequror has issues.
*I don't believe that tiers in general are a good idea. Everyone has level 4 or 5 in the ship type skill anyway.
Also, I've just looked at something and 300 turret dps at 18+15km could be neat for ganking tackled other things from outside harms way. Maybe using the speed to keep it's distance (NOT orbit, person who's gonna call me out on tracking). I'm not sure this is useful outside a gank situation though. Whatever.
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A PUPPETMASTER
The Galactic Empire Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:18:00 -
[40]
After reading all the stories about the navy omen I fitted one and guess what, powergrid went out faster than the cap of an abaddon. 5 Heavy Pulse II (and yes I have all matching skills @5) and I could barely fit the Med Armor Rep II not and I'm not even talking about an MWD or AB, without PG Rig it's hard to fit sth decent on that ship. BTW since all Faction ships went into focus again, it would be nice to review the stats of them, since they got "missed" when all ships got that boost...
I'm not spamming! This is propaganda and information Warfare ;) |
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:07:00 -
[41]
New Omen looks good, as does new scythe.
New arguror is rather unimpressive, but oh well.
Why oh why is the caracal losing power grid? What is the reasoning behind this?
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: A PUPPETMASTER
BTW since all Faction ships went into focus again, it would be nice to review the stats of them, since they got "missed" when all ships got that boost...
uhm... Ashimmu? halp it please so it doesnt suck.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:11:00 -
[43]
Originally by: A PUPPETMASTER After reading all the stories about the navy omen I fitted one and guess what, powergrid went out faster than the cap of an abaddon. 5 Heavy Pulse II (and yes I have all matching skills @5) and I could barely fit the Med Armor Rep II not and I'm not even talking about an MWD or AB, without PG Rig it's hard to fit sth decent on that ship. BTW since all Faction ships went into focus again, it would be nice to review the stats of them, since they got "missed" when all ships got that boost...
Try not using the heaviest weapon type available. Powergrid restrictions are there for a reason, you know... ...
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Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arana Tellen I think the N.exeq has a couple of things over the thorax. Its faster and lighter along with the likelyhood to fit bigger guns. Also the 25% damage bonus brings it up to the damage of a thorax and then the ROF bonus is better than the 25% damage bonus the thorax gets..
5 turrets X 1.25 = 6.25 4 turrets X 1.25 = 5 / 0.75 = 6.67
Yes it misses out on the drones but the guns are up to it.
Actually rof = 33% so it's;
5 turrets X 1.25 = 6.25 4 turrets X 1.25 = 5 / 0.67 = 7.46
As you said though it loses a drone for additional speed, then again faction > ti. Conversely taking such a pricey ship, fitting blasters then flying right at someone hoping they die first seems like reasonable risk .
Looks as if that augor got shafted sideways again too -------------------------
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:28:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 24/05/2008 11:30:59
Well, the navy exequror is meh at first glance, but maybe you could do a decent electron/ion with 1600 plate setup with it without reaching excessive mass...
Quote:
Actually rof = 33% so it's;
5 turrets X 1.25 = 6.25 4 turrets X 1.25 = 5 / 0.67 = 7.46
Wrong. 25% rof it's 33% dps increase, not 33% rof. It's 4 turrets *1.25=5/0.75= 6.67 ------------------------------------------
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Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:02:00 -
[46]
Actually 25% rof = 33% dps so no, it isn't wrong. What's wrong is you telling me .25 x .25, which numerically correct, is not effective turret output when ones bonus is rof. So, .25 x .33 = 7.46 effect turret dps i.e. that's the amount of turrets the thorax would need to equal the damage output not 6.67 though it will never be that precise inside ccps chance to hit formula. The loss of drones reduces that edge further so really that gap isn't as large as it appears.
At least the guns are more cap efficient, it's also got a sig of 108 which is good for a cruiser, although its 1.5k armour is **** compared the the 3K the navy omen has given it's going to be taking a pounding when it's in range. -------------------------
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.05.25 08:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Azuse Actually 25% rof = 33% dps so no, it isn't wrong. What's wrong is you telling me .25 x .25, which numerically correct, is not effective turret output when ones bonus is rof. So, .25 x .33 = 7.46 effect turret dps
Did you actually do that bit of maths? 4 * 1.25 / 0.75 = 4 * 1.25 * 1.(3) = 6.(6).
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