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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:02:00 -
[1]
Whats the difference , I thought I coverd this?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=778393
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:11:00 -
[2]
Since its obvios Im not getting ant responce on the original thread on this topic i'll ask here
If this was implemented, HOW would it negitively effect Eve, besides the can parisites having the approprate risk involved when stealing?
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JVol
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Posted - 2008.05.24 22:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sigul Siento It is in fact the wallet of some guy you just beat the crap out of. There is no real life analogy from the civilized world that matches the demand of this thread.
Oh really? No real life anology? Let me paint a quick picture then.. In RL, you see a very large angry man bristiling with guns all over him, including the red hot smoking gun in his hand, hes standing over the corps of one of 4 gentelman hes just had a 'disscussion' with and is going thru the pockets of the first guy, the one closest to him.
Do you decide to beat him to the second corps and start tearing thru the pockets? Not if self preservations high on your prioritys your not. Why? Because any moron can see the ovious threat here and KNOWs if they take this guys stuff, they will be laying next to the other 4.. Eve hasnt got that risk vs reward built in atm..
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[4]
Once the devs sit down and talk about this it will change, no doubt in my mind. With faction warfare comming, carebears venturing out into spoon fed pvp, THEY are gonna want their loot. The same guys putting up lame, stereo typical responces "go to 0.0 to pvp" or "grief this and grief that" will be screaming their fool heads off for change. Ya know what?? THEY WILL GET IT TOO!! Dev's in the end ALWAYS lean to the carebear side, so worst case we'llneed to wait for the screams of carebears... can ya hear them? I can
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: aUTOKILL
do you even think before you post or even re-read what you type? cause you are sounding like a total dumbass atm,
Hardly a dumb ass. But I see logic is not everyones strong point. What I am and most of you seem not to be is Consistent.
Consistent:
1. in agreement or harmony; in accord; compatible deeds not consistent with his words 2. holding always to the same principles or practice consistent behavior
I do not think PVP should be shown favor in High sec over any other endeavor in EVE when it comes to being profitable.
Whether it be mining, missioning, ratting or even, dare I say it, PVP, the endeavor should not be as profitable to do in High sec as it is in 0.0. You know, the whole risk v. rewards thing.
Originally by: aUTOKILL
and are promoting that EVERYONE who wants to have fun in Highsec to have an alt and to go to 00...
See here is where your breakdown in consistency starts. Have all the fun you want. Blow things to high heaven, I do not care. It is the profit of your behavior that should not be improved.
I shall joust with windmills 1 more time before I tire:
Mining in high sec limits you to lower grade ore (less profits for less risk) Missioning in high sec limits you to lower levels of LP and pay (less profits for less risk) Ratting...etc.. (I hope you are getting this by now)
Then comes the golden child: PVP. It can be profitable and you can have fun doing it. But if you do it in High sec you have less risks. (I do hope you are still following as I have lowered the bar as much as I can). The race to secure loot from others while having no recourse other than speed is unique to High sec. It is one of the very few mechanisms (along with graduated war dec fees) that governs the profitability of PVP in high sec.
Giving flagging rights to the one who destroys a player's ship would create an imbalance IMHO and is a very slippery slope. Still a lil amazed to see pirates...err pvp'ers cry for special economic treatment IN HIGH SEC.
Patri
P.S. If you stay civil so shall I.
Dude!! GTF off of the ' high sec' soap box. Maybe if you keep stateing over and over how 'real pvpers' just pvp in 0.0 and low sec this whole topic will just slink away ??
You keep saying the 'risk vs reward' line.. Like high sec has any less risk than low sec when talking about war decs or faction warfare? When 5 war targets have you scrambled,webbed and neuted, does it REALLY matter what sec the damn system is? No, your dead, did they work any less to nab you? NO. Did they risk LESS because of the systems sec? NO, My death in this secereo would be just as hard on my wallet regardless of the sec of the syatem. I was involved, they were involved, vultures shouldnt be involved, WITHOUT risk, and you KNOW it.
The OP NEVER said that this is JUST a high sec issue, its an EVE issue. Your same argument couldve been said to the guys who wanted jet cans to belong to them and have rights to those who steal, or mission runners who want the loot thats theirs.
....also, all your talk of profit in high sec, the current flagging system ISNT there to limit war decs profitability in high sec you ass, its just a broken system. How would it harm the game for the vultures to occasionally have some risk when STEALING? Its not like the proposed changes STOP them from being able to steal, just makes it how it should be, risky
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.27 04:10:00 -
[6]
We get it, some high sec 'pirate' corp dec'ed you and ruined you eve world.. WE GET IT!!
This isnt ONLY for high sec, it helps just as much in low sec. Combat happens where it happens. The cost of wars in low sec costs me no less than in high sec. Its about a fair change that should be looked at by the devs.. Arent you curious what they think anout this topic?
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.28 00:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: JVol on 28/05/2008 00:59:07
Originally by: Professor Leech This is another one of these ideas that people think is great but it's actually stupid.
When salvage was introduced you needed to loot the can (get flagged) and then salvage. I went around salvaging and had all sort of people running away from me. The flagging mechanic is a great method of terrorising new players and killing carebears who don't know any better. Thus flagging for salvaging isn't going to be of any benefit to the majority of players.
Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage.
Salvage is just that salvage from a wreck. It's a free for all. If you can't handle the competition give up salvaging.
I havent seen one person that was for this that was whining, quite the opposit. The op in this case isnt talking about salvage at all.
Since you brought it up tho.. Salvage should also be 'duel flagged' the original owner and the person who delt the final blow. T2 salvage is too valuable to just be 'free' to any person who gets there first to a wreck. Mission loot, keep it free t1 rigs should be cheap n plentyfull.
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.28 23:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xaryus War doesnt give you ownership rights. Simple as that. Loot belongs to the victim until looted.
War shouldnt be the main point of this change, what about anti pirates? What about honorable one v ones? What about when you flip a gank and kill the gankers? All these are also reasons to support this change. Dont get me wrong, it should definatly include war targets as well... Point is, this doesnt just benifit 'pirates' or 'empire griefer war decs' or suicide gankers, its good for eve, period.
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.29 02:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Professor Leech
Originally by: The PitBoss
Originally by: Professor Leech Privateers was the best concept ever introduced into eve and now it's members are reduced to whining about salvage..
If you can look past who actually brought this subject up ... I KNOW you would see the light .. BUT you can't because you're shallow ... so ... move along
Reread what I wrote. I've have supported the privateers since day one and had a ball flying around killing all those red background stars on overview.
Everything that drops from a ship is salvage I don't view taking the loot or rig components as theft. Part of the challenge of being a 0.0/low sec pirate or high sec war dec corp is managing to nab the loot without getting killed.
High sec is full of opportunists looking for easy isk and they are your competition. Whining about them is just sad.
I support removing all can flagging. This might hurt the can flip pvpers but that's about all.
No..
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.30 01:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hoggustus Edited by: Hoggustus on 28/05/2008 13:07:06 Edited by: Hoggustus on 28/05/2008 12:58:36
Originally by: Ehranavaar theft should have consequences.
How can salvaging can be called theft? here's how I view it! In the first place the ship is mine since I paid for it, equip it, rig it, whatever... You blow my ship for whatever reason... the wreck is mine since it's the wreck of MY ship! yeah YOU blow it to have acces at my cargo (or simply for fun) you can even salvage MY wreck if you want. So if a third party come and salvage before you do it... he's not agressing you in any matter! so you should'nt have any reason to gain aggression right over him! The rightfull owner of the wreck is still me! even if you blow it up... it's not yours rightfully it's MINE! The agression right should be mine, even if i've been blown up! Unfortunatly, 90% of the time i'm a NPC! and i don't return to my wreck very often.
The fact that you get "yoinked" by a third party salvager get you ****ed real good. You then cry out loud so CCP bend rule to your advantage even if it does'nt make any sense logically!
This is the reason i don't give any support for this demand... and unfortunately... i think CCP have the same view!
(sorry for the many grammatical error... not my first language )
Simple answer.. the 'ship' is yours, when I blow it up, "I" just made the wreck, its mine..or should be. Same with mission wrecks as far as im concerned
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:49:00 -
[11]
What happend with this, it made it into the minutes of the csm, then seems to have died.. any news?
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.08.08 04:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
This got discussed in an optional AOB slot at the conference: CCP didn't have time to do the background research to give a formal technical response but they did let me present the ISSUE and we had a good round table discussion of the pros and cons. It appeared that dual ownership is a no-go because of programming issues - but there was general support for flipping the ownership from the killed pilot (+ gang) to the killing pilot (+gang) as a reward for actually performing the kill (basically treating pvp wrecks like npc wrecks).
We don't have the formal minutes yet but I'm pretty sure we voted this as a high priority option and since its just a simple flip of ownership rather than new programming I'd be hopeful we'd see action on this within a decent timescale. I'll certainly be following up on the ISSUE during my term on the CSM.
What happend..? It got ALMOST all the way to the finish line but seems to have gotten swept under the rug...
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:52:00 -
[13]
Now with the SEVERE penatlys for ganking anyone in low sec or hi sec, poping a vulture who just stole your hard earned loot isnt really an option anymore. Its still a case of ZERO risk for huge rewards to loot thieves as the current 'owner' of the wreck is well... usually in a pod. So.. to make sure im perfectly clear, this IS NOT about hi/low sec ganking, its about WAR, and the victors spoils. This should be a no brainer for ccp to implement. Who gives a rats ass about walking in a feakin station?? This IS a pvp game, work on pvp stuff, not fluff
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: LoneRider Edited by: LoneRider on 11/12/2008 20:22:21 It should be like this by now (correct me if i'm wrong):
Suicide Ganker kills Industrial. Wreck is owned by victim. Corpmate from suicide gankers loot the wreck and get flagged for the victim's corp. Victim's corp mates kill looter.
Changing the System to dual ownership would mean:
Suicide Ganker kills industrial. Wreck is owned by suicide ganker as well as victim. suicide ganker's Corpmate may loot the wreck, will not get flagged, and will not get attackable for victim's corp. Defending their property would immediatelly flag the victim's corpmates and concord would kill them.
No, not really a good idea... needs changes concerning the victim / ganker thing.
This IS NOT about suicide ganking, its about WAR. Suicide Ganking has its 'regulations'and balance built into it, Huge sec hits and very fast concord responce. Keep on topic, again, this is about PVP, war, not high sec ganking. Whole different topic
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: LoneRider
Originally by: JVol This IS NOT about suicide ganking, its about WAR. Suicide Ganking has its 'regulations'and balance built into it, Huge sec hits and very fast concord responce. Keep on topic, again, this is about PVP, war, not high sec ganking. Whole different topic
This is about a change in the game mechanics, and it WOULD have an impact on suicide gankers - no matter whether you want to hear it or not. You cannot fix it for war without having it affect the suicide gankers as well. So you keep thinking about the consequences outside your focus.
I never suggested that the killers corp gets rights, just the killer.. So your suicide gank worries are not valid... killer would be in a pod, the 'deads'corpm8s could take vengance out on whoever takes loot in that case.. problem solved.. CCP, make it so.. GO!
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.11 20:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: LoneRider
Originally by: JVol I never suggested that the killers corp gets rights, just the killer.. So your suicide gank worries are not valid... killer would be in a pod, the 'deads'corpm8s could take vengance out on whoever takes loot in that case.. problem solved.. CCP, make it so.. GO!
OK, if it could be implemented like this, it would work. But "dual ownership" as mentioned in the starter post would mean that also corp mates would get "rights" - corp mates can have a look inside my cans without being flagged for me - And THAT would be a problem :)
In any case it needs to be looked at, maybe if the 'killer' took a sec hit to make the kill, duel ownership wont apply.. If the killer killed you without taking a sec hit, war dec, or 0.0 youd get duel ownership. We have all killed targets in 0.0 to have vultures snag loot then jump the gate back into hi sec and laugh, how kool would it be to follow then in and have 15 min to kill their punk ass's?
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2008.12.18 07:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Nope
- property doesn't belong to someone different until it actually changes hands. - Until someone ELSE takes possesion, it is STILL the property of the original owner. AK
^-^ This.
No support, defend what you've destroyed or loose it.
You guys just dont get it do you? You CANT defend it because when vultures steal they arent flagged to you. They are flagged to the guys you just killed... THAT arent there anyways, or I wouldnt be worring about loot cause I'd still have war targets shooting me. Our option would to be to get concorded trying to kill them ?? They risk nothing, thats the problem. CCp needs to regognize the war targets loot is mine, not the first person to get to (unles his flashy red ass can get away from me).
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