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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:34:00 -
[1]
Hi there,
as i intend to buy me a shiny new CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs), i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.
Do you guys have any tips except "don't fly what you can't afford" or "fly for low quality agents"? Would a secound account with support do (like a Guardian or something)?
tia
Eddy
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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:34:00 -
[2]
Hi there,
as i intend to buy me a shiny new CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs), i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.
Do you guys have any tips except "don't fly what you can't afford" or "fly for low quality agents"? Would a secound account with support do (like a Guardian or something)?
tia
Eddy
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:39:00 -
[3]
A second account with a guardian would help, but is FAR worse compared to just using 2 accounts with ravens. Then better use another raven with remote shield reppers fitted. Or go to a lower quality agent, it will have less lag so you actually make more isk. Having 5 med ECM drones and 5 light combat drones for missions might help you survive if you are really lucky.
And use mainly t2 gear, limitted faction and no deadspace gear.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:39:00 -
[4]
A second account with a guardian would help, but is FAR worse compared to just using 2 accounts with ravens. Then better use another raven with remote shield reppers fitted. Or go to a lower quality agent, it will have less lag so you actually make more isk. Having 5 med ECM drones and 5 light combat drones for missions might help you survive if you are really lucky.
And use mainly t2 gear, limitted faction and no deadspace gear.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:41:00 -
[5]
Dont invite strangers to your gang. dont engage looters stealing your loot. just dont give them a method of popping your ship while mission whoring.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:41:00 -
[6]
Dont invite strangers to your gang. dont engage looters stealing your loot. just dont give them a method of popping your ship while mission whoring.
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Brachis
Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:44:00 -
[7]
High sec ganking, even and especially for well-fit mission runners isn't a problem.
Gankers don't care that you have a CNR save for the killmail, and actually killing a CNR which has been fitted to deal with missions isn't something that a ganker is going to take lightly.
The normal high sec ganking only ever seems to be a problem for people who don't pay attention, or people who have weak ships or poor fittings. The majority of high sec ganks come from your kill being profitable. This is why freighters and transports are frequent targets. Normally the number of ships it would require to take down a properly fit CNR makes the losses to concord not worth the profit off of the CNR kill (If they even get the CNR kill at all).
I could be totally wrong though, but I haven't heard a lot of stories of mission runners getting popped by pirates when they're flying armed-to-the-teeth battleships.
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
Brachis
Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:44:00 -
[8]
High sec ganking, even and especially for well-fit mission runners isn't a problem.
Gankers don't care that you have a CNR save for the killmail, and actually killing a CNR which has been fitted to deal with missions isn't something that a ganker is going to take lightly.
The normal high sec ganking only ever seems to be a problem for people who don't pay attention, or people who have weak ships or poor fittings. The majority of high sec ganks come from your kill being profitable. This is why freighters and transports are frequent targets. Normally the number of ships it would require to take down a properly fit CNR makes the losses to concord not worth the profit off of the CNR kill (If they even get the CNR kill at all).
I could be totally wrong though, but I haven't heard a lot of stories of mission runners getting popped by pirates when they're flying armed-to-the-teeth battleships.
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:48:00 -
[9]
If someone wants to take you down and they have some friends, then they will. 10 suicide ravens loaded with torp launchers and heavy neuts will kill you in a couple of volleys, regardless of your fit.
What you can do is reduce the chance of them selecting you and make it require more ships.
A buddy with a Seige Mindlink will add +15% to your shield hp, and he can run a Shield harmonising gang link too (+22.5% on shield resists, before stacking penalties).
Don't smack in local, ever.
Some missions are stupidly easy ( eg: Duo of Death) - keep a standard T2-fit raven for these missions and reduce your exposure. Don't just do combat missions 23/7 from the same agent. Avoid very crowded mission hubs - dropping 2-3 points of agent quality has a negligible effect on ISK/Hr.
Don't fit more than you need for a specific mission; the really expensive fits are to enable lazy, semi-AFK permatanking. Save yourself a couple of billion and use a fit that needs a little management. Hint: Ravens need DPS more than extra tank once you get past being able to fit T2. Your leadership gang buddy will help you with tank anyway.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:49:00 -
[10]
Ye usually only easy targets. Even Freigters are something you think twice about and need some 10-15 BS to help kill for maybe 4-5billion. 99% of all suicide ganks are against shuttles, frigs and industrials. Already with transports and cruisers you are relatively very secure. But ofcourse, thats asuming you fit it for tank. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:50:00 -
[11]
Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway) -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:55:00 -
[12]
How about keeping the value of total droppable items below, say 800 mil or so? Use implants and rigs to pimp. Nothing else will keep you safe.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:55:00 -
[13]
thx 4 your replies.
@ Furbkiller
I guess Malcanis is right here. If i would bring a second raven or support ship, the gankers will just bring more ships. As i saw on battleclinic KB, it takes about 5 to 7 Ravens to take out a well mission fitted NCR with Gist XL booster. I had to keep that 2nd Raven at a safespot, alligned and ready to warp i guess, but i doubt that it will be there fast enough.
@ Locii
Yeah, that's clear. Read a lot allready about those techniques
@ Brachis
take a look at battleclinic and search system Irjunen for example. You'll see a lot of CNRs there got popped by no more than 5 Torp fitted ravens from, of course, alts
@ Malcanis
Do you know what the basic tactic from those gankers is? They scan your ship at some station, then get a cov ops scan you out in a mission and pop? Is it like that?
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Staggerr
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Staggerr on 25/05/2008 10:56:06 Omni tank the ship. Suicide gankers, and even scam gankers will try to find your softspot.
Even the best shieldbooster isn't gonna help much if you don't have any cap.
A passive tank might give you more survivabilty against a gank but a passive CNR is a bad idea anyway.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:57:00 -
[15]
Pretty much. If they use a passive targeter on the ship-scanning ship, you'll never even know.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ethaet Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)
my thoughs were some officer launchers and a Gist Xl booster, rest standard T2 or low faction. I find lvl4's boring to hell, but imho it's the best way to earn the isk to waste in pvp. Therefore i want to do those more quickly as possible. And as i'm a totaly newbie to pvp, i think high sec wars would do better for me for the first time instead of low sec pirate blobs or 0.0 capital fleet lagfests.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:04:00 -
[17]
Also:
GTFO the warp-in point ASAP - don't just enter the mission, lock targets, F1-F7 and sit there like a chump; A T2 warp scram has 24Km range... Be aligned, if not at speed. be extra vigilant in missions with warp-scrambling rats, and make sure to kill those little buggers first (you should do this anyway).
Oh yeah and keep and eye on local. A sudden influx of skulls and yellow tabs = time for caution.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
5pinDizzy
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 -
[18]
Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.
What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.
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Marine HK4861
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ethaet Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)
No, they don't. With my skills (Cruise spec to 4) and same fitting:
Caldari Navy Cruise Launcher: 6.8sec ROF TII Cruise launcher: 7.1sec ROF
Even with spec skill to 5, it's still short of what a faction launcher can do.
T2 launchers are very cheap compared to faction though.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ethaet Avoid fitting any officer modules at all, and avoid too much faction (including launchers - train for t2s, they do more dps with spec 4 anyway)
Dread launchers are better than T2 with spec 5.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.
What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.
Gsus Christ, calm down. I've seen the Guardian in the Alliance Torunament, and recently some mates had a guardian. So, sorry for that, just replace guardian to logistic ship and relax :)
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eddy Vasquez
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Sorry for the use of bold but I'm annoyed.
What the hell is it with the Guardian being the only tech 2 logistics ship anyone ever wants to use? There are hundreds of them in alliance tourneys, and even this Caldari Shield Tanker got told to use a Guardian, now tell me if I'm wrong, but I only remember the Guardian getting armor rep bonuses.
Gsus Christ, calm down. I've seen the Guardian in the Alliance Torunament, and recently some mates had a guardian. So, sorry for that, just replace guardian to logistic ship and relax :)
The guardian is generally considered the best due to its PVP uses, as armour > shield. Also, 2 guardians can create cap out of nowhere by running a cap transfer on each other due to the cap transfer cap use bonus, which the oneiros can't do.
The basilisk can do the same cap trick, but that isn't very useful without 2+ logistics ships, but a basilisk is better for a raven as it reps shield (also, shield reps rep at the start of the cycle rather than the end like armour) -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 25/05/2008 11:18:34
Originally by: Brachis High sec ganking, even and especially for well-fit mission runners isn't a problem.
Gankers don't care that you have a CNR save for the killmail, and actually killing a CNR which has been fitted to deal with missions isn't something that a ganker is going to take lightly.
The normal high sec ganking only ever seems to be a problem for people who don't pay attention, or people who have weak ships or poor fittings. The majority of high sec ganks come from your kill being profitable. This is why freighters and transports are frequent targets. Normally the number of ships it would require to take down a properly fit CNR makes the losses to concord not worth the profit off of the CNR kill (If they even get the CNR kill at all).
I could be totally wrong though, but I haven't heard a lot of stories of mission runners getting popped by pirates when they're flying armed-to-the-teeth battleships.
Simply not true. Fit a deadspace X Large shield booster 2 officer PDU and 1 officer cap recharger and it become VERY worth to put 30-40 bs to gank you.
the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sokratesz How about keeping the value of total droppable items below, say 800 mil or so? Use implants and rigs to pimp. Nothing else will keep you safe.
Not low enough.
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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:22:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:25:40
Originally by: Kagura Nikon the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production.
This beeing said, why would anyone use officer mods anyways?
*edit*
@ Sokratesz
Considering that it takes 5 to 7 BS to gank a mission fitted BS, every fit above approx. 300m is basically worth ganking. Thanks to insurance.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:23:00 -
[26]
The reason you intended to in your original post - they want to do the mission 1% faster. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Eddy Vasquez CNR with faction and officer mods to run lvl4's for a good agent (which implies mission hubs)
Actually, no, it doesn't necessarily imply mission hubs. The ISK rewards from agent quality are insignifiant compared to the fixed bounties you get in the missions, and LPs are far, far more influenced by agent system security than agent quality (especially with decent social skills). All you want is a L4 agent (regardless of quality) in a highsec system with as low of a truesec as you can find, and if possible, without lowsecs one jump away.
Quote: i wanted to know if there are any possibilities to safe my investment.
Keep "droppable" loot under 500 mil ISK in value and you should be fine even in hubs. 1 bil ISK in droppable loot, you should be worried every time you undock in a hub, might be ok-ish for an out-of way system. 2+ bil ISK in droppable loot, and it is only a matter of time until you get ganked in a hub, might take a while (or never happen at all if you also keep your mouth shut) in an out-of-way system.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Tom Tomahawk
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:35:00 -
[28]
Don't worry, only noobs and AFKers are killed in highsec, concord protects you well. Fit a heavy estamel tank, just to be sure.
Btw, are you doing that missions with this char ? And in what system / time ? (Just curious ).
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Eddy Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:41:17
Originally by: Tom Tomahawk Don't worry, only noobs and AFKers are killed in highsec, concord protects you well. Fit a heavy estamel tank, just to be sure.
Btw, are you doing that missions with this char ? And in what system / time ? (Just curious ).
I see what you did there. I'll give you a complete evemail with my fitting, time and system when it's rdy, so you don't even have to bother with scanning
*edit*
maybe i shall invest my hard earned ISK into a mining career. There also most expensive implants and modules, but i doubt that anyone would kill me except jihad swarm
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.25 12:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Eddy Vasquez Edited by: Eddy Vasquez on 25/05/2008 11:25:40
Originally by: Kagura Nikon the main question is why someoen woudl use an officer fit ship to run missions? THey are already so easy with T2? Faction stuff is more than enough to pip your ship into near maximum isk/hour production.
This beeing said, why would anyone use officer mods anyways?
*edit*
@ Sokratesz
Considering that it takes 5 to 7 BS to gank a mission fitted BS, every fit above approx. 300m is basically worth ganking. Thanks to insurance.
Although technically correct, due to the time and effort it takes to find a suitable target (up to a few hours of scanning people) i'd say that a value of 7-800mil is minimum to be ganked, as half of it will (on average) be destroyed in the kill.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
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