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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:20:00 -
[1]
We all know that an Amarr/Caldari Militia will dominate any Gallente/Mini forces in population.
Thus I predict many will quikly after being zerged quit the Gal/mini factions just to escape bumping into random war targets in highsec and being station camped.
We will have 1 side patrolling about in large packs hunting for scraps while the other decide if they really want to go threw with being the victim.
I think, 1 of many things that can be add'd to eaze the pain a little is dropping the entry requirments to join a militia to 0.0, then the few that want to play Hero or patriot have an easyer chance of doing so.
It was EvE evolution that heavly promoted the pro-caldari PvE and ship training. Even now most faction standing farming is still Caldari. We need intervention for more choice to militia recruitment!!
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Guns nButter
The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:41:00 -
[2]
i think the requirements to join a given militia should scale based on the populations of the other militias or the occupancy status of other militias, ie if caldari militia has 2000 pilots and minmatar militia has only 1500, minmatar militia should have standings requirements reduced to 0 and caldari requirements increased to, say, 1.0 or something
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Guns nButter i think the requirements to join a given militia should scale based on the populations of the other militias or the occupancy status of other militias, ie if caldari militia has 2000 pilots and minmatar militia has only 1500, minmatar militia should have standings requirements reduced to 0 and caldari requirements increased to, say, 1.0 or something
I like the idea of auto-scaling but I'm not sure about simply affecting the entry requirement. Perhaps the LP/ISK ratio instead?
If the Caldari/Amarr have 2000 and the gallente/mini have only 1000 then anyone in the g/m side gets twice the LP/ISK. Hopefully simple ecnomics would sort it out then.
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Kuzya Morozov
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.27 01:17:00 -
[4]
Too bad most caldari players are trade alts/ratters in Ravens :)
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Nef'Ayr
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.05.27 01:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nef''Ayr on 27/05/2008 01:31:51 Since the only info we really have is SiSi, I'd say we will still have to wait and see.
FW is largely about easy to find targets. As Caldari could have twice or more times the number of Gallente/Minmatar pilots, the average Caldari will have a harder time getting action. This alone could cause a balancing of FW pilots.
Other possibilities, FW is something people (Empire at least) do only a bit at a time. If a Caldari pilot is only looking for a few days worth of PvP, it's quite possible that he won't harm his Caldari standings very much by joining Gallente. If so, we may see a better balancing of pilots.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:53:00 -
[6]
I was wondering about the same thing, and thus joined Gallente and Caldari militias with a character each (I don't have a char available to join Minmatar and Amarr). Here's what I found about the participation in these militias:
Saturday 24th, 14:30 EVE Gallente Militia: 32 Caldari Militia: 55
Saturday 24th, 21:17 EVE Gallente Militia: 136, CCP: 0 Caldari Militia: 178, CCP: 3
Saturday 24th, 22:57 EVE Gallente Militia: 110, CCP: 1 Caldari Militia: 134, CCP: 2
Sunday 25th, 06:00 EVE Gallente Militia: 31 Caldari Militia: 45
Sunday 25th, 18:51 EVE Gallente Militia: 64 CCP: 0 Caldari Militia: 93, CCP/AURORA: 1
Monday 26th, 04:03 EVE Gallente Militia: 35 Caldari Militia: 45
Monday 26th, 16:04 EVE Gallente Militia: 49 Caldari Militia: 79
As you can see it is not as bad as a 2:1 relation, but there still is a heavy slant towards the Caldari side.
If we assume the same variation on TQ I guess that in the long run all low sec will be dominated by Caldari/Amarr unless CCP adds some means to even the odds in some way - but tbh I don't know how. I doubt lower entrance standings will help as these can be quickly circumvented with dedicated FW corps, the core of the problem is IMO that there are simply more players who chose the Caldari race or ran missions for them.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 27/05/2008 18:09:47
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness As you can see it is not as bad as a 2:1 relation, but there still is a heavy slant towards the Caldari side.
I'll take that back:
Tuesday 27th, 16:55 EVE Gallente Militia: 10, CCP: 1 Caldari Militia: 39, CCP: 1
Tuesday 27th, 17:50 EVE Gallente Militia: 17, CCP: 0 Caldari Militia: 69, CCP: 1
When I asked CCP Tenitigo about the odds and if there are any plans to level the playing field he was placing blame on it being the test server. Gallente chat was pretty demotivated too because almost every action was met with a bunch of hotdropped capitals.
Personally I think the odds will be even worse on TQ due to one thing: Jita is in Caldari territory. Anyone joining up with a faction hostile to Caldari denies himself easy access to the cheapest prices and ample supplies.
I seriously hope CCP thinks up something that can offset this disadvantage. Right now there seems to be no interest to do so.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Full Impact
Silly Buggers Society
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Posted - 2008.05.27 20:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness Personally I think the odds will be even worse on TQ due to one thing: Jita is in Caldari territory. Anyone joining up with a faction hostile to Caldari denies himself easy access to the cheapest prices and ample supplies.
I seriously hope CCP thinks up something that can offset this disadvantage. Right now there seems to be no interest to do so.
Caldari would also be denied Rens. I know where I'd rather do my shopping on a sunday afternoon.
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XxKatharsisxX
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Posted - 2008.05.27 20:25:00 -
[9]
i also noticed the same problems when playing on the testserverr .. i (accidently) joined caldary militia and it seems that theiy vastly outnumber the other factions
i find it difficult to get good battles its only bobbing
also u need 24/7 carebears to get the fleetmembers invited
maybe some coloured text and some basic channel rights "war generals" would be nice
but most of all the population of eve is unbalanced and will surely cause big problems in gameplay
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.27 20:50:00 -
[10]
the testserver has more caldari FW-agents (i acctually dind't find ANY gallente ones in Black Rise), this may be the reason for the greater numbers (thats why i joined them first) ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2008.05.27 21:03:00 -
[11]
Standings are so insanely easy to get after the mission sharing was introduced.
Difference between 0.0 and 0.5 is a handful of missions at best. Having a token requirement does exactly what CCP says, prevents people from jumping around like idiots as the tides of war goes against them.
Caldari has a huge numerical advantage but that is mainly mission running/mining alts (Achura genome must be getting worn out :)) and I seriously doubt the difference will be that big after the novelty has worn off.
Gallente/Matari pilots on the other hand are generally more geared towards PvP and will have the advantage in equal sized engagements simply due to this fact.
If the ratios are completely out whack after a few months then I am sure CCP will do something to rectify it.
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Xaxch Kuge
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Posted - 2008.05.28 03:14:00 -
[12]
You people are also forgetting the balance of pvp pilots versus non pvp... As one of the previous starters posted Caldari pilots concentrate on a lot more than pvp, and those that are pvp oriented have a ruff time of it in some circumstances do to the low dps the caldari ships pump out. Where as gallente ships are (overgeneralization) good at pvp especially with drones. Also, its gona be hard to camp someone in their empires high sec when ur standing with the enemy state is going to be so bad the stations defenses will target you. Don't forget that aspect of it. We are not just going to war with other players but other races as a whole. Ive been thoroughly trashed in a rokh before going into gallente space and thee Emperian age hasn't even been released yet. So don't assume that the caldari or the amarr are going to station camp in 1.0 sec gallente or mini space... making it that far will basically be impossible... This will most defiantly be front lines warfare. But as far as camping in lowsec? maybe it will happen in some areas but not so much in others.. also remember that there will be a totally new area of space to fight in that exits under were the current empires are now.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.28 06:22:00 -
[13]
The issue is not so much ship type but standings. Ships can be trained by anyone - in fact there are a lot of Achura pirates flying Gallente ships due to the low Achura CHA and Gallentean ships being regarded as better for PvP.
The core issue is that a lot of players have good standings towards Caldari because missions are best run in Navy Ravens and thus a big market was created for them. To satisfy that a lot of the players ran missions for Caldari agents and now have the best standings towards them, while trashing their standings towards Gallente. Check my standings and you'll see what I mean in reverse - and with Pytria I took care not to let Caldari standings slide too low for RP reasons.
Now, why would a casual player who is slightly interested in FW go out and grind his standings up to another race (that also is outnumbered from the start)? I bet almost all of these will join the first militia they find, and that will be a Caldari one.
Thus there needs to be a motivation to do that grind, to join what is seen as underdogs. Otherwise the factions seen as inferior WILL be inferior because the rumor mill will cause people to join the "winning" side.
I seriously hope someone from CCP is reading this, all inquiries on SiSi have been met with indifference.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.28 06:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Standings are so insanely easy to get after the mission sharing was introduced.
Difference between 0.0 and 0.5 is a handful of missions at best. Having a token requirement does exactly what CCP says, prevents people from jumping around like idiots as the tides of war goes against them.
Caldari has a huge numerical advantage but that is mainly mission running/mining alts (Achura genome must be getting worn out :)) and I seriously doubt the difference will be that big after the novelty has worn off.
Gallente/Matari pilots on the other hand are generally more geared towards PvP and will have the advantage in equal sized engagements simply due to this fact.
If the ratios are completely out whack after a few months then I am sure CCP will do something to rectify it.
Faction standing is not shared.
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.01 13:59:00 -
[15]
Even CCP people pick Caldari Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.01 15:11:00 -
[16]
I think there are a few misconceptions about what the population will be:
-95% of players DO NOT RP. I doubt FW will change that. People run missions for profit, not to RP. --Because of this, most highsec players will not join faction warfare. ---Numbers will be even lower due to having to leave your corp, or alliance. -Many RPers may not join in FW due to the fact they would lose their alliance. and expose all their members to wars, while as a normal corp/alliance they may not be permanently in wars (I know some RPers are, but not all) -The majority of caldari chars were created for attributes - why are there so many caldari chars doing missions for other factions compared to other factions doing missions for caldari? This backs up the first point as well. -If you consider the numbers of people who actually RP, I would say minmatar/amarr have the most, and gallente/caldari have less. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
white kight
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.06.01 17:29:00 -
[17]
I don't believe that this will be the case. When we were testing the FW on SISI there were always more Gallente than Caldari, i cannot speculate on Amarr/Minmatar.
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chao226
Dark Entropy
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:42:00 -
[18]
Theres is gonna be servral imbalances caldari will be the biggest faction with the larger number of misstion runners however it will be one of the weaker factions as they dont PvP and will just be targets for a lot of players. The iondividual malita corps will not have many PvPers in them most PvPers will be in corps that decide to join the malitas.
minmatar are going to have the most actual pvP'ers imo due to that large number of rp guys.
as for corps like mine we are concidering this but tbh the 3 factions for us are.
1. will we have group standings to join 2. which faction will give us most targets 3. most of our guys fly race x we should join that so they can beinfit from loyalty store easyer
i think you will find there are going to be 2 large and 2 small factionws. caldari and minmatar are large for diffrent reasons. ganete ammar dont get as much love and will be smaller
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PR0D AK71V
Mad Hamster Infestation
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Posted - 2008.06.02 00:19:00 -
[19]
I wouldn't jump so quickly to any conlusions based on the results from sisi. Also, very often quality>quantity. And I'm not talking about skill points. I'm talking about corps that have been pvping as one tight group for a long time. A lot of thm are burnt out and are looking for a new playground.
I think (and it's only my opinion) that most of them will actually join gal/minnie side
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:20:00 -
[20]
The Minmatar-Amarr front looks interesting.
The Caldari-Gallente is as unbalanced as it goes though. Caldari have much bigger numbers, much better LP store, much better infrastructure. Bountiful targets look like plus at first glance but getting blobbed for no rewards without any hope to complete missions is not fun. On top of it CPP made great move to blackmail Gallente and gave them suckiest new ship.
If I were to join with my Gallente char I would go Minmatar. Better ballance, better rewards and presumably better player community on both sides.
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Shiv Ertai
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Posted - 2008.06.02 05:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Shiv Ertai on 02/06/2008 05:11:50
Originally by: Fuazzole We all know that an Amarr/Caldari Militia will dominate any Gallente/Mini forces in population.
Thus I predict many will quikly after being zerged quit the Gal/mini factions just to escape bumping into random war targets in highsec and being station camped.
We will have 1 side patrolling about in large packs hunting for scraps while the other decide if they really want to go threw with being the victim.
If this happens I will be so very very happy. Gallente 4tfw!!!
\o/ Targets
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Mahkla
The Really Useful Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:17:00 -
[22]
I'm looking forward to having tons of Caldari PvE players as targets floating round space for the picking
R.U.C. are hiring btw, ready for when Empyrean Age goes live. ___________________
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DiaBlo UK
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:31:00 -
[23]
in my experiance, most pvp chars are gal/minnie, cause these are the best races to pvp with, the hotdropping of caps on sisi, i don't think will carry across to tq, because tbh, of all the fleets i've been in on sisi, they are ALL very disorganized, and hell, are you gonna risk 1-2bil in a fleet of carebears? i wouldn't.
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gordon861
PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.02 13:28:00 -
[24]
I expect a lot of people will run Caldari FW just to get the faction LP rewards to sell to the fulltime CNR L4 pilots.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donĘt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe. |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.02 16:47:00 -
[25]
IF I get into FW, I'll have little choice but to go with Caldari, although I'd personally rather sign up with Minmatar.
My first and second corp was in Caldari space, my second alliance was in Caldari space and the majority of my efriends are in Caldari space, so I've basically lived in Caldari space for nearly 2 yrs. As a result of all that, most of my ISK-making activities, including trade, missions and research are centered around Caldari and/or Amarr space. If I get into this at all, it'll have to be on the Caldari side.
But, being allied to people who keep slaves....... BLEH!
I may have a few blue-on-blue *accidents* with some Amarr "allies"
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:37:00 -
[26]
People who worry about caldari ***** me up. If anything, we should be concerned about the stampede of veteran PVP'ers to the Gallente militia in order to partake of the juicy pickings of pve fit cruise ravens that will comprise the bulk of the caldari militias.
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CrestoftheStars
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:51:00 -
[27]
hehe well we all know that in a full scale war amarr and caldari would beat the silly franch and the slaves to pieces so it seems fair fluff seen ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.02 22:13:00 -
[28]
More dominance in one faction, means more systems 'occupied'. More systems occupied means more ground covered. More ground covered means harder to defend.
I don't think the test server is remotely representative.
I think there will be a skew towards Caldari initially, as there will be a lot of empire dwellers 'giving it a go'. I don't think it'll stabilise that way, as some will find PvP not to their taste. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.02 22:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ulstan People who worry about caldari ***** me up. If anything, we should be concerned about the stampede of veteran PVP'ers to the Gallente militia in order to partake of the juicy pickings of pve fit cruise ravens that will comprise the bulk of the caldari militias.
All I have to say to that rubbish is that Caldari BS 5 and 4 days of ECM training allows for a fully bonused Scorpion.
Yeah, so what we're going to see is fleets of 40 Scorpions wandering the highsec spacelanes. Yaaaaay (actually, that would be hella fun. :P)
-Liang
-- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2008.06.03 06:26:00 -
[30]
The situation on the live server will be quite the opposite. Tons of Gallente/Mins PvP'ers and nearly no Caldari. Take me as example, on testserver, I have fun with PvP, on live server I wouldn't bother with it, because covering my losses would be to expansive. I have no fun flying around in a thincan I can afford to loose. So, if I join FW, most probably with my Minmatar char. Flying around in a cheater nano.
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