| Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Arina Deturca
   |
Posted - 2008.06.04 17:22:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Toramii
Originally by: Poreuomai
Edited by: Poreuomai on 04/06/2008 13:06:34
Originally by: Arina Deturca
The person with the most votes is the person that the people feel is most capable for the position.
Not at all. The person with the most votes is the person whom most people wanted on the council.
Wanting someone to be on the council is not the same as wanting someone to be the chair.
It certainly says nothing about how willing or capable that person would be for the chair position.
Agreed, I never voted for the chair when I cast my vote, I only voted for the person that best represented my views on Eve.
Yes, you did. Didn't either of you read the rules before you voted? Guess not, huh. This isn't a US-style system of voting, so I guess I'm not surprised most of you aren't familiar with it.
|
Toramii
Le Moulin Rouge
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 23:21:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Toramii on 04/06/2008 23:25:28
Originally by: Arina Deturca
The person with the most votes is the person that the people feel is most capable for the position.
I cant say I share this feeling as a voter, I have little idea who will come first nor can I know if the first person past the post will make the best Chair. Although it makes sense to have a temporary chairperson to get business underway it is common practice for the board to vote in senior board members based on their ability.
I still stand by the fact I voted for the person who best represented my outlook on Eve, anyone else feel this way?
Originally by: Arina Deturca
Yes, you did. Didn't either of you read the rules before you voted? Guess not, huh. This isn't a US-style system of voting, so I guess I'm not surprised most of you aren't familiar with it.
Are you a mind reader?
1) Indeed before I voted, I read some of the "Council of Stellar Management" document (I admit to speed reading the waffle to get to the important bits) including this section from page 9 which those who read the rules are familiar with.
The Council Structure
"By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM. Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and Vice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards “granting” authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him."
Apart from an attempt started by Jades post circa 22/05/08 - http://www.eve-search.com/thread/777318/page/1, I dont recall seeing a proclamation that the CSM activity to vote in senior board members was carried out within 3 days as mandated by the rules, someone please point me to the results of the vote or Chairperson decision if it exists.
If this first duty this was not carried out, this sort of invalidates the rules as they stand and they obviously need addressing.
2) I'm not very familiar with US politics but I believe party members vote for a presidential candidate before the main election and correct me if I'm wrong but I dont see where either of us brought the US voting system into the discussion?
|
Arina Deturca
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 05:34:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Toramii
I never voted for the chair when I cast my vote
Originally by: Toramii
The Council Structure
"By default, the Representative with the highest vote tally is awarded with the responsibilities of Chairman for the CSM. Within three days of the general election, the Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine a Vice-Chairman, Secretary, and Vice-Secretary. Failure to hold this vote, or if the vote is inconclusive, awards ôgrantingö authority to the Chairman, who may then appoint council members to the other positions as he or she sees fit. If the Chairman decides to step down or rescind his responsibility during this time for any reason, a vote must be held among Representatives to replace him."
I changed your emphasis around a little bit. Hopefully you can see it now. I sure hope you weren't voting for someone to make second place or worse. That would be rather silly, wouldn't it? When I vote, I vote to win. 
In regards to #2, I think a lot of Americans were surprised when Jade's position was announced. It wasn't supposed to be a surprise.
My position is still the same: I don't want the council to have more power. I don't think they should be managing themselves; I think that should be left for the people to decide. Their job is to present CCP with issues that the people present to them. I want as little overhead as possible (did you see the log from the first meeting?  ). |
Somatic Neuron
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 10:41:00 -
[64]
I think the highest vote getter should be the acting Chairman, until after the first couple of meetings, at which point an internal vote could decide.
---------- |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 15:34:00 -
[65]
The roll of chairman is to facilitate discussion and other such administrative duties. He is not some sort of dictator with power over the masses.
As such I fully support this amendment.
The council should decide, based on the social dynamics of the group, who among them will best moderate discussion.
Just because someone was the most popular at the polls does not mean they are the most effective at administration.
|
Sovereign533
Anoint
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 18:38:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Sovereign533 on 05/06/2008 18:39:23
i don't agree.
the person with the most votes is who the voters want to be the head.
so there should not be some sort of bypass on this.
the person with the most votes should be the head of the CSM. if the person with the most votes doesn't want to be the chairman, he should be able to step down and a new election started. to see who gets the most votes this time.
however, if this person doesn't do his work. there should be a way to make a vote of no-trust.
|
Hamfast
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 19:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Sovereign533
Edited by: Sovereign533 on 05/06/2008 18:39:23
i don't agree.
the person with the most votes is who the voters want to be the head.
so there should not be some sort of bypass on this.
the person with the most votes should be the head of the CSM. if the person with the most votes doesn't want to be the chairman, he should be able to step down and a new election started. to see who gets the most votes this time.
however, if this person doesn't do his work. there should be a way to make a vote of no-trust.
I think you are spot on...
Chairman is the chairman unless they step down (council then elects a replacement) or they are unable to do the job, at which time they can be removed from the post by a super majority vote of the remaining members (6 or 7 of 8)
By the same token, with a super majority vote (and CCP approval) Council members should be able to be removed and replaced by the alternates.
In both cases, the votes should be public and require posts explaining why the vote was taken and the voting members need to explain their votes in that thread... open government...
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
|
Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc.
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 09:31:00 -
[68]
|
Amarr Holymight
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 02:26:00 -
[69]
Nope don't agree chairman should have the right to step down and then a vote, that's it.
|
Tesseract d'Urberville
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 03:38:00 -
[70]
The chairperson of CSM is just an administrative role, not a head of state; there's no particular reason why it has to be the CSM rep who got the most votes. Sounds fine by me.
---------------------------------
Thomas Hardy is going to eat your brains. |
|
|
Captain Narmio
Baptism oF Fire
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 03:45:00 -
[71]
The CSM Chair's duty is to moderate and direct meetings, it is only a "first among equals" position with no actual additional power than an ordinary council member. The qualities of a good chairperson are not necessarily aligned with the qualities that get a representative elected.
The council should be trusted to pick its own chair, It is the voters' duty to pick council members responsible enough to do so.
----------
I have discovered that with a signature, my posts look less noobish and are probably more likely to get read. |
Josslyn
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 04:47:00 -
[72]
Maybe it would be better to have the elections like normal, then after the 9 CSM delegates have been chosen, you have another election for chair with everyone who voted in the general having a vote, and only those who voted the first time getting a vote for chair.
|
Amandi Casimi
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 07:07:00 -
[73]
Yes... please
Let neutrals be neutrals.
|
Erotic Irony
0bsession
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 07:51:00 -
[74]
A completely unnecessary & trivial distraction.
Time is of the essence.
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
|
Nessaji
Rosa Alba
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.07 08:23:00 -
[75]
Agreed.
______________________________________
"Originally by: Tuxford
It was a dirty hack to be honest but we couldn't find anyway around it. I hope we never have to do it again."
|
Inanna Zuni
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 11:06:00 -
[76]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The CSM and CCP / Devs are currently
discussing this issue and an
announcement regarding the outcome
will be made in the near future.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IZ
My principles |
Dru McCarty
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 17:02:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Dru McCarty on 20/06/2008 17:02:31
It seems like this does nullify the popular vote. Stand down, if that is your choice, but the popular vote should matter for something. Impeachment should be a possibility as well. This is kind of like asking the people to vote in a congress and then letting the congress pick the president. Either that or the counsel should act like a jury. Grab an odd number and let each of them represent a single voice.
~ Dru
|
Ethaet
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.06.20 23:17:00 -
[78]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard  |
Lokche
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 06:18:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Lokche on 21/06/2008 06:19:17
The voters decide who they want in chair. Let this remain a true democracy.
Edit: However, it seems acceptable that the chair decides who's chair.
|
Zaphod Jones
Kinda'Shujaa
|
Posted - 2008.06.21 12:02:00 -
[80]
supported
Minmatar FW Corp recruiting |
|
|
Wolf Soldier
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 15:00:00 -
[81]
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.06.26 16:00:00 -
[82]
This one came up for debate - CCP didn't want to interfere and said it was a matter for the CSM to decide. The CSM itself wasn't keen on writing the principle into the rules/constitution for future CSM's and the general outcome is that any future CSM can pretty much decide for itself how it wants to govern meetings and debates. We did clarify that the documentation will be changed so that Chair's can step down and be revoted if they wish.
At the end of the formal meetings in Iceland I asked for a formal show of hands on whether the CSM reps were happy with me continuing as Chair for the first term and they all said yes.
So thats pretty much the end of that.
Next CSM will have the chair decided on majority vote but there will be some clarifications in the CSM document to clear up the rules and ability to decide these offices.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |