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Cpt Leelah
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:08:00 -
[1]
Hi folks,
I'm pretty new and still trying to figure out what eve is about. My first experiences were fantastic, huuuge world, so many things to discover and to do but right now I am pretty unsatisfied with the game. Maybe it's just because I'm getting involved in PVP or something. Eve is my fifth mmorpg (Anarchy Online, DAoC, WoW, LoTRo) but it features the worst pvp system I ever experienced. To me it seems, CCP encourages griefplay, recreancy and unfair behaviour. I'm not *****ing because I lost a bunch of ships or something, I'm trying to figure out what eve is about. (I got some neat kills like T2/faction fitted Hyperion and lost only 1 t1 cruiser in pvp yet) Don't get me wrong, but to me it makes no sense to have a "protected" empire if any randomgriefsucker can declare war on me for a ridiculous amount of money and shoot me anyway even in 1.0 highsec space. Another coward (bc) shot one of my corpmates (noobminer in a frig) + popped his capsule a few days ago. When I arrived in my BC, he was like 30km away from the gate, he managed to make it through with 2 webbers + scrambler on his butt, the gate allowed him to jump but blocked me. He got away, and docked for hours without losing anything. Is this what eve pvp is all about? Trying to kill the weak without any consequences? The game mechanics seem to encourage this kind of griefplay and even protects griefplayers, or how come, a war costs nearly nothing? I'd have to pay like 2m/week to rip a noobcorp into pieces, thats just 4 BS in a lvl4 mission or a mission reward and if they'd outnumber me in a combat situation, I'd just fire up my MWD and hide or logout?! And please spare advice like "why didn't your mate dock" or something, this happened in 0.9 highsec space, our corps main hangar system. If any sucker can pay concord to let him attack my corp, I wanna be able to pay concord for protection!
Correct me if I'm wrong but is there any other way to have fun in eve than being a coward and an *******? You don't need to play the game to get more skills, you can purchase ISK for money legally. If you try another career than fighting, you dont need to play at all unless you chose to be a miner, which is boring and time consuming as hell. Missions suck too, every other game features more interesting missions. There is like no roleplay, nothing to achieve by active playing. Even if I choose to be a merchant, the market system is only half as good as several free browsergames. Ok lets try a builder, buy a few GTCs, change for ISK, get BPOs, wait for skills, wait for ME research slots, purchase Data Interfaces for more ISK, invent a few T2 BPCs, sell or buy em... WTF I can do this in like 10 minutes playing a day!? What is EVE about except paying real money to CCP and get a nice 3D gfx for a decent browsergame system featuring the worst pvp system ever?
Prove me wrong and tell me what Eve is about please, I dont want to go back to WoW or get Age of Conan or something. I'd love to enjoy Eve but right now, the whole game seems like a big scam to me, set up for one purpose, to feed CCP my money in return for crap!
I'm expecting CCP to delete this, if they do so, nevermind and thanks for reading, wether you agree or not.
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Samaritan Azuma
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:10:00 -
[2]
eve is yough... in my first week my exequer got ganked and i cried but im back now
I'm BoF's token american. |
boomer12
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:16:00 -
[3]
yup, eve is huge, very huge. lots and lots of different things to do. you need to find your niche doing what you enjoy.
eve is also very harsh...it is an attraction of it, you may grow to love that aspect of it
i've not done any other mmorpgs but eve will reward you if you persevere...for every nasty evil pirate there is a fluffy carebear willing to help you out. the game takes a lot of learning but it is fun once you get the hang of aspects of it
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Cpt Leelah
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:19:00 -
[4]
^^ It's not about a ship I lost, I don't care, even if I'd loose a BS or something. I ran so many missions during the last weeks, I could buy a CNR without going bancrupt. I'm questioning the current pvp system and the alternative ways to play the game!
Thx for the reply though
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knifee
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:21:00 -
[5]
TBH i dont think eve is a game that you can play for 10min a day and expect to remain engaged.
As to everything else you talked about, that's the game.
www.eve-dev.net - making a good thing better
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:22:00 -
[6]
The PvP system is not broken, you just don't like it. That's fine, EVE is not for everyone.
Estel Arador corp services (high-sec POS/JCs) just 120M isk! |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:31:00 -
[7]
Can we get that in paragraphs? Better yet, edit it down to 150 words and use bullet points.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:37:00 -
[8]
Quote: Is this what eve pvp is all about? Trying to kill the weak without any consequences?
Kinda of, yeah.
Risk vs reward system needs an overhaul :)
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Drizit
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:39:00 -
[9]
I have played for 3 years now and found that Eve has changed so much. Most of the players who play solo for whatever reason are being forced out since there are few, if any, 1v1 fights any more. Gang (or rather gank) warfare seems to dominate but meet the same characters on a 1v1 basis and they turn tail and run.
A lot of the honour that Eve had a few years ago has gone. Scamming and thieving was always a part of Eve but recently it seems to have become the primary reason to play. Many of the player rats will pop and pod you even if you pay the ransom which gives players little incentive to cough up to those who still have enough honour to let you go.
I kind of adapted by joining a corp but although I still play solo, I know that my corpmates are just a few hops away if I need them or if they need me.
--
Freighters need a tank |
Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:39:00 -
[10]
Well, you got it right.
For some fun in EVE is mining. For some it's picking on the weak. Others like to protect those weak players. Some produce stuff, invent, etc.. The list goes on. So one can not say what EVE is about.
It's on you to find what suits you, not on others to tell you. And theres a chance, as others said, that you will not find "your thing" in EVE.
From what you wrote there's only PvP left for you, it seems. Read some on the agression mechanics and use em to your own good.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cpt Leelah To me it seems, CCP encourages griefplay, recreancy and unfair behaviour.
They do. Doesn't mean you have to play like that of course.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:42:00 -
[12]
It's different. Fight smarter, not harder.
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Armoured C
Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:44:00 -
[13]
you seem to be misinformed about one very common mis conception
concord isnt there to protect, concord is there to punish the 1.0-0.5 security status is there to show you that you will be punished for engaging another player by concord
to declare war on you they pay concord to look the other way
this is how the game mechanics work ...it isnt broken many people have been living with it for years
to counter you web problem the pilot must of been firrted with a microwarpdrive
eve PVP isnt like anything you have experienced before, you have to play smart , think about your stragity and there is true loss in which you will loose yout ship
it a cruel harsh world so seeing as RL is like that people should be used to it by now
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Havok Dryke
Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:48:00 -
[14]
I think Second Life is the king of griefable game right now. ---
Kaboom: The process by which large objects are broken down into many small objects.
Originally by: Alz Shado Chribba doesn't mine Veldspar -- the ore offers itself to him in tribute.
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Cpt Leelah
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kuranta Well, you got it right. ... From what you wrote there's only PvP left for you, it seems. Read some on the agression mechanics and use em to your own good.
I know almost everything about the aggression and pvp mechanics^^ thats why I question the system. I did get into various other things too, I know a lot about mining, building, trade and even about astrometrics and hidden things.
Maybe EVE is just not my game, PVP looks nice but it doesn't reward honor or fairness. I'm not the guy to eat the weak, I can defend myself, I could defend and avenge others if the mechanics wouldn't block the pursuit of pirates.
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Fofalus
Baptism oF Fire
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:15:00 -
[16]
He does raise one valid point. You can pay 2mil for a valid wardec why shouldn't we be able to pay 2mil(or w/e) for extra protection?
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cpt Leelah
I'm expecting CCP to delete this, if they do so, nevermind and thanks for reading, wether you agree or not.
Why would they delete it? They get fail posts like this from noobs playing the wrong game all the time. Just go away already and stop cluttering up our forums if you hate it so much. After all if there is nothing to do but pvp and the pvp system is the worst ever i guess you wont have invested much time in it.
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote: Is this what eve pvp is all about? Trying to kill the weak without any consequences?
Kinda of, yeah.
Risk vs reward system needs an overhaul :)
Yeah, because I can just go to high-sec at any time and nobody tries to kill me ever. Are you serious?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ho HsienKo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cpt Leelah
Originally by: Kuranta Well, you got it right. ... From what you wrote there's only PvP left for you, it seems. Read some on the agression mechanics and use em to your own good.
I know almost everything about the aggression and pvp mechanics^^ thats why I question the system. I did get into various other things too, I know a lot about mining, building, trade and even about astrometrics and hidden things.
Maybe EVE is just not my game, PVP looks nice but it doesn't reward honor or fairness. I'm not the guy to eat the weak, I can defend myself, I could defend and avenge others if the mechanics wouldn't block the pursuit of pirates.
Your fellow players will reward your Honor and Fairness, do not expect CCP to do that through any game mechanic ; ]
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:24:00 -
[20]
I probably sound like a wet blanket here, but Eve is famously a sandbox and "The Point(tm)" is something you seem to have to determine for yourself.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah
Maybe EVE is just not my game, PVP looks nice but it doesn't reward honor or fairness. I'm not the guy to eat the weak, I can defend myself, I could defend and avenge others if the mechanics wouldn't block the pursuit of pirates.
This sounds like what you're most interested in tbh, and you've almost posted the answer already. Sounds like your objective is to assemble some like- minded badasses and harass those whose methods you disapprove of using the wardec system. There are tons of "lol empire griefer" corps that could totally use a taste of their own and war decs are, as you say, dirt cheap.
If they dock up on you and won't come out to play, go make a drama bomb in C+P like everybody else does. ___________________________________________
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Sekh Ondaari
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:24:00 -
[21]
First off - I've never bought isk, I never will. This is a personal choice, and honestly have very little to do with gameplay. RMT will _always_ exist in one shape or another, it's existance, the downsides and the take on it is something that's been discussed for years. I personally find the path CCP has chosen in this matter quite good, but... There are of course downsides.
As for the pvp part, I honestly find EVE to have the best one I've ever encountered. I make a decent amount of isk, I've yet to actually suicidegank anyone(even if it has happened to me a few times(first time for only my pod :P)). Yes, you can grief people - for a cost. And how on earth would you possibly have it any other way? If you're aiming for an enviroment and culture that's supposed to be all about economy... If you have a corporation of miners that can't fight - use your wealth to hire a mercenary corp and attack them back? Use your diplomatic skills to gat an ally into the fight? Why specifically concord? Once again, sandbox - not a fairytale progressing from a to b.
If they can hide, why can't you? And doesn't that simply make them more apt to the game? If they're hidden what harm do they do? Or is it unfair that you have to respond to their agression when they're actually there? Should EVE be a platform for farming and building wealth enough to "get a new CNR" in the twitch of an eye or a competition to see who can utilize their skills and their wealth in the best way?
Seeing how pvp indeed is the only profession so to speak that doesn't completly revolve around the amount of digits in your wallet at the end of the day - buying ISK will void the competetive nature of all industrial professions.
And well yes, the entire business behind EVE is to generate money for CCP in return for a game that I atleast personally enjoy. This would be the normal idea behind most games. And the games I don't enjoy - I don't pay for?
As for your actual problem at hand, aside from renting mercenaries, fighting them, moving, hiding, removing incentive etc etc.. you could just stay in a NPC corp or major alliance for the duration of your existance in EVE and be somewhat sanctioned from all of this. It's not like you don't have any tools at your disposal.
Would EVE ever turn into a game further aiding farming and grinding, where all player to player interaction is consensual and players choices are even more crippled by NPC interaction - I believe the majority of the playerbase we have would drop off, me included and the average age would steep down to that of most other MMOs.
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Armoured C
Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Armoured C on 03/06/2008 00:31:46 honor and fairness i dont know what carebear MMO's you come from in the past but this is a real game
you can be anti pirate and save the weak or what ever but everything down to trading on the markets is PVP
i personally think it one of the better PVP games out there since it doesn't always rely on both parties negotating a duel.
you attack someone you get concorded
and if you studied the "greifing manual" as such you said then you would already would of realised this
if you cant handle the heat you in at the wrong temperture
go to huggy huggy age of conan and be locked away in prision for a week \and then come back and complain about the broken PVP mechanics
and no one is asking you to fight you can just stay docked in at a station all the time, just because the paid to fight doesnt mean you have to
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Valkazm
Eve Defence Force Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:34:00 -
[23]
you tested eve now comes the forums ...
so anyway .. CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF ? .......................................
Quote: CCP Navigator mail at [email protected] for isk
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Armoured C
Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:37:00 -
[24]
O_O why didn't i think of that op didnt say he was leaving though but since were all talking about suicide ganking yet again i guess we thought of a possibleity to get his stuff even if he is staying
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Darkwolf
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cpt Leelah I could defend and avenge others if the mechanics wouldn't block the pursuit of pirates.
The exact mechanism that you view as stopping you pursuing a pirate is the same mechanism that stops pirates camping a gate from pursuing their victims.
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Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Big Failure
Prove me wrong and tell me what Eve is about please, I dont want to go back to WoW or get Age of Conan or something. I'd love to enjoy Eve but right now, the whole game seems like a big scam to me, set up for one purpose, to feed CCP my money in return for crap!
World of Warcraft. In WoW when you die you lose nothing. Yet it still has consentual pvp. LOL!
In WoW you can't change the world. When you kill someone they lose nothing. You can't do actual damage to your enemies' infrastructure or take their territory, like in Eve Online.
You play WoW, essentially, for nothing except pretty pixels on your character. A game for children who like elves and gnomes.
Now you advanced to Eve Online, tried it, didn't like non-consentual pvp, didn't like the agression rules or that wars are a common thing.
Then you come whining to the forums ? Do you expect to find a shoulder to cry on ? "Waaaah, waaaah, griefers, gankers, pirates".
Go back to WoW and play with no purpose but pixels on your avatar. Wuss.
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Gabbot
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Posted - 2008.06.03 00:59:00 -
[27]
The pvp system rocks, though gatejumping should be overhauled as well as deagressing and docking.
Right now its more "hide in the dock-online" than anything else.
make it if you have an aggression timer (with another player)and get agressed on a station or gate(legally)you are not able to dock.
The market system is the best ive seen in a long time (almost 100% player maintained)
and missions are made to suck for a reason
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Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.03 01:02:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Fofalus He does raise one valid point. You can pay 2mil for a valid wardec why shouldn't we be able to pay 2mil(or w/e) for extra protection?
When you left the NPC corp you entered the competitive world of player owned corporations. The competition, naturally, will try to eliminate you, be it in empire wars, territorial wars, market wars.
Eve is a social intensive game. Make friends, train together, make alliances and non agression pacts with likeminded friendly corps.
If you think "I do no harm hence no harm will come to me" then eve is not for you.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.06.03 01:08:00 -
[29]
My intuition tells me that OP is a troll, but I'll take the bait anyway.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah I know almost everything about the aggression and pvp mechanics^^ thats why I question the system.
I would seriously doubt that you do understand. If you did, then you'd realize why it was necessary for the gate NOT to allow you to jump when you were trying to kill that ebil ebil pirate. Still don't get it? It's because if you were the one running to the gate with ebil pirates trying to web you, then you could jump without them simply following you and killing you on the other side. The mechanism is there to protect the weak and the whiny.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah Maybe EVE is just not my game, PVP looks nice but it doesn't reward honor or fairness.
Definite troll alert. But let's continue anyways. Turning the table back on you - If you require a reward for your honor, then you're not terribly honorable, are you? Honor and fairness are their own reward. It's possible that players may reward you. But I wouldn't count on it. Players that would require your help (ie. carebears) are not reknowned for their generosity or thankfulness. In any case, if you continue in your current delusionment, then you are probably correct in guessing that EVE may not be ideally suited to you. The rewards in the game are those that you create (or take) by your own merits.
Taxman V: Back in Black
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Desnat Schel
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Posted - 2008.06.03 01:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Desnat Schel on 03/06/2008 01:12:33
Originally by: Cpt Leelah Don't get me wrong, but to me it makes no sense to have a "protected" empire if any randomgriefsucker can declare war on me for a ridiculous amount of money and shoot me anyway even in 1.0 highsec space.
EVE has a mechanic that lets you avoid war declarations - it is called staying in an NPC corp. When you choose to leave it and enter the highly competitive world of corporations you are expected to have some teeth to fight back. The problem is that many new players think it is their granted right that if they form a corp the game should for some reason protect them from outside aggression. But it isn't what corps in EVE are about - they are about competition and pvp play.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah Another coward (bc) shot one of my corpmates (noobminer in a frig) + popped his capsule a few days ago. When I arrived in my BC, he was like 30km away from the gate, he managed to make it through with 2 webbers + scrambler on his butt, the gate allowed him to jump but blocked me. He got away, and docked for hours without losing anything. Is this what eve pvp is all about? Trying to kill the weak without any consequences?
It sounds like you were using crappy webifiers if you used 2 and could not stop a battlecruiser, and even though you were within 10km you didn't bother to bump him off alignment. The game does not allow you to use gates after acts of aggression. While in your case it might seem like EVE is protecting a griefer, this mechanic is actually very nice when you're running gate camps as campers who are firing on you cannot go in pursuit. So it all depends on the situation.... In any case the game is not to blame that you cannot catch a bc picking off your newbies. You were supposed to provide consequences and you failed. The game is not supposed to protect you.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah The game mechanics seem to encourage this kind of griefplay and even protects griefplayers, or how come, a war costs nearly nothing? I'd have to pay like 2m/week to rip a noobcorp into pieces...
If it costs 100 mil a week newbie corporations will not be able to declare war. On these forums we mostly get posts on this matter from newbies who don't like combat, who get ganked and come to complain about it. But there are newbies who aren't afraid to dec corps that ****ed them off, who get into the game with the goal of forming mercenary or high sec racketeer corps, who actually win some of these wars. And they are not griefers for it, they just want some action and pvp.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah And please spare advice like "why didn't your mate dock" or something, this happened in 0.9 highsec space, our corps main hangar system. If any sucker can pay concord to let him attack my corp, I wanna be able to pay concord for protection!
Pay a mercenary corp for protection if you cannot protect the newbies you hired yourselves.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah Correct me if I'm wrong but is there any other way to have fun in eve than being a coward and an *******?
Obviously not, the 200 thousand people playing EVE are all cowards and *******s and they only have fun through this.
Originally by: Cpt Leelah You don't need to play the game to get more skills, you can purchase ISK for money legally.
It brings the fun back into the game when you actually have to play to earn ISK for your BPOs, ships, and characters. When you get out your real life wallet to pay for virtual stuff you have failed at EVE automatically. You opted out for the easy way, you chose to use a 'cheat' to get ahead, of course the game becomes very boring after that. The GTC system was implemented for players who play significantly less than an average player <10h a week so that they could still have fun. Unfortunately there are regular players who abuse it just because they can. The payoff for these cheaters is that they soon lose an interest in EVE and they could have enjoyed it a long time if only they choose to actually play it instead of taking a shortcut.
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