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Talthoras IX
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.03 06:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Talthoras IX on 03/06/2008 06:07:08 Alright, heres the deal. I'm ready to start skilling for a Command ship, I hope, and I need to decide what racial Cruiser and weapon systems I should skill up first. Should I go Amarr for the Absolution and Conflagration M? Or Minmatar with the Sleipnir and Barrage M? I'd like testamonials from actualy pilots, not EFT warriors. This is mostly for PvP, aside from the occasional Cosmic Anomaly.
Thoughts?
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.06.03 06:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 03/06/2008 06:08:40
Originally by: Talthoras IX Edited by: Talthoras IX on 03/06/2008 06:04:45
a bit lazy? I think you should be a bit more exaustive to deserve any answer ... you know.. just to understand what do you will do with that ship ....
edit: lol ok .. you edited the answer, sorry . :)
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.03 06:55:00 -
[3]
do it like me and get both :P
i prefer abso more tho. better tank and better looks :)
just train for what feels better for you :) ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Maeltstome
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.03 07:03:00 -
[4]
The Abso will sit like a fat whale and soak up damage, and also put out a decent ammmount too... but it's mobility leaves something to be desired - and could do with 4th mid.
The sliepnir cant sustain as tank as well as the abso, but can rep more DPS for a shorter period... if that makes sense. But It's also faster - and as one of my friends puts it: "It has the GTFO Factor". Capless guns are also a bonus.
Abso, tank and spank. Sleip, not-as-good-tank-but-can-kite and spank -------
[12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF |
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.03 14:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Maeltstome The Abso will sit like a fat whale and soak up damage, and also put out a decent ammmount too... but it's mobility leaves something to be desired - and could do with 4th mid.
The sliepnir cant sustain as tank as well as the abso, but can rep more DPS for a shorter period... if that makes sense. But It's also faster - and as one of my friends puts it: "It has the GTFO Factor". Capless guns are also a bonus.
Abso, tank and spank. Sleip, not-as-good-tank-but-can-kite and spank
so i assume that with ur sleip setup for kiting, you don't dally in web range? bcuz while sleip has mids i've often pondered the proper things to put there.
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SpinkTon
Stronghold corp
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Posted - 2008.06.04 12:22:00 -
[6]
They are both very good ships... What i would do is take a good look at your skill tree from engineering, navigation, mechanic etc and see where your best skills lye. Another thing to do is plan ahead.. when your happy with your command ship skills and support skills for that, see what else you want to fly and make sure skills complement that.
It doesn't matter what ship is better when you don't have the skills to complement the ship you have chosen, thus its better to specialize in one race than to be average across races.
Hope that helps some
-Spink
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Diomidis
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.04 12:50:00 -
[7]
Few people fly Command ships more often than HASs or even Recons. Training up for a CS opens the way for both the Recon and the HAS class - like it or not.
So it's not skilling up is not a simple "Sleipnir vs. Abso" comparison. It's more like Absolution/Zealot/Curse/Sacrilege/Damnation - even Guardian vs. Sleipnir/Vaga/Muninn/Huginn/Rapier/Scimitar etc. The whole T2 med lineup that is! Even BCs will be a pretty good choice once you skill-up to BC lvl 5 (even 4), so think of them too! And do not forget about HICs either! It's also Broadsword vs. Devoter to some ex tense.
If you don't think "that-big" you will not make the most out of your decision = your SP investment. A single ship and/or fitting is doomed to bore you sooner or later.
1) Decide your weapon platform: most Minmatar ships are bonused for projectiles. Still most of them also depend on drone and missile skills a lot. I would say that minmatar ships are more SP-intensive when your are after maximum dps. Amarrian ships like the Zealot or the Abso focus on lasers, but other ships use totally different weapon systems: the Curse for example likes drones and missiles, while the Sacri and the Damnation are though as HAM platforms (or HML in some cases for the latter).
2) Decide your playing style: Minmatar vessels are usually faster and the most successful fittings are nano. You've probably know of the Vagas that roams the 0.0 regions, the Rapiers etc...minmatar are more for guerrilla - hit and run tactics. The Nano-Zealot and Nano-Curse also fight like that, but the Amarr CSs and the Sacrilege can also be tanked pretty effectively. In the HIC arena, I would say the Broadsword is a tad better cause it can regen it's shields, while the Devoter cannot, tho the rigged Devoter is a buffer beast with 40%+ more EHP to start with in standard buffer fits.
Then look at your current skill-tree, use a skill-planner like EVE-mon and "sleep on it"...both races are great once you devote serious skills for them. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
BiggestT
Fun Inc Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.06.04 13:57:00 -
[8]
As long as you dont do what i did and train nighthawk, youl be ok
Boost Field commands! they need love :( |
Trojanman190
Altruism. Malice.
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Posted - 2008.06.04 14:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: BiggestT As long as you dont do what i did and train nighthawk, youl be ok
Well, at least you are good at plexes and stuff right?
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sh4rp ov3rvolt
Hikage Corporation Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.04 15:48:00 -
[10]
depends on the guys you hang around with nano -> sleip conventional -> abso
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.04 15:52:00 -
[11]
diomidis, ur advice is dynomite!
i've been rolling between cross training amarr and minni for a long time now. i have been looking at the grand scheme, but having it lain out like that helps in the decision. I myself have decided on minmitar for now, and when i'm content with it i'll go minmitar 2nd. As i'm gallente spec now, i don't need another armor tanked HIC to play with. My shield skills are decent from nanoing my ishtar, and armor is well set. I'm not a battleship fan so i'm not concerned with taking up too much time to get to t2 larges.
The biggest part that hurts hear is that minmitar can't mission for the life of them though. However, i'm content with using my ishtar for lvl 4's for now, and using a domi when i have the patience to look at the damn thing.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.04 18:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 04/06/2008 19:00:30 barrage is comparable to scorch, not conflag....conflag is comparable to hail. you should never use conflag or hail, use faction ammo, such as amarr navy multifreq, or republic phased plasma.
but back on topic. I can fly both. i could fly the abso, and did, for a year before I could fly the sleipnir. I currently own and fly a sleipnir, but I no longer own an abso.
but really, it comes down to what you are doing. Abso is just not really all that well suited to 0.0 life, but if you were doing lowsec stuff, abso > sleip. If you are doing missions or other PVE, especially in deadspace, abso>sleip
sleip can be both fast, with a nice tank, as well as good damage...but your range is meh, even with barrage and the falloff bonus. Abso is a brick, tough as nails, but SLOW and vulnerable to camps and fast moving nano gangs. Abso with heavy pulse and scorch has a huge range advantage over the sleip...but with only 3 meds you are choosing between scram and web as mwd and injector are usualy requirements.
For all around usefulness, id say go for the sleip. the abso might be better in certain lowsec ops, and PVE stuff (depending on rats of course) but the sleip is not far behind, and is way ahead in other areas.
Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
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Deschenus Maximus
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.04 19:58:00 -
[13]
Sleipnir.
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Dreadpilot Roberts
Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.06 03:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Diomidis Few people fly Command ships more often than HASs or even Recons. Training up for a CS opens the way for both the Recon and the HAS class - like it or not.
So it's not skilling up is not a simple "Sleipnir vs. Abso" comparison. It's more like Absolution/Zealot/Curse/Sacrilege/Damnation - even Guardian vs. Sleipnir/Vaga/Muninn/Huginn/Rapier/Scimitar etc. The whole T2 med lineup that is! Even BCs will be a pretty good choice once you skill-up to BC lvl 5 (even 4), so think of them too! And do not forget about HICs either! It's also Broadsword vs. Devoter to some ex tense.
If you don't think "that-big" you will not make the most out of your decision = your SP investment. A single ship and/or fitting is doomed to bore you sooner or later.
1) Decide your weapon platform: most Minmatar ships are bonused for projectiles. Still most of them also depend on drone and missile skills a lot. I would say that minmatar ships are more SP-intensive when your are after maximum dps. Amarrian ships like the Zealot or the Abso focus on lasers, but other ships use totally different weapon systems: the Curse for example likes drones and missiles, while the Sacri and the Damnation are though as HAM platforms (or HML in some cases for the latter).
2) Decide your playing style: Minmatar vessels are usually faster and the most successful fittings are nano. You've probably know of the Vagas that roams the 0.0 regions, the Rapiers etc...minmatar are more for guerrilla - hit and run tactics. The Nano-Zealot and Nano-Curse also fight like that, but the Amarr CSs and the Sacrilege can also be tanked pretty effectively. In the HIC arena, I would say the Broadsword is a tad better cause it can regen it's shields, while the Devoter cannot, tho the rigged Devoter is a buffer beast with 40%+ more EHP to start with in standard buffer fits.
Then look at your current skill-tree, use a skill-planner like EVE-mon and "sleep on it"...both races are great once you devote serious skills for them.
Since when does Curse "like missiles" ? This is an idiotic concept invented by poor Curse pilots who fit launchers on it ( against it's two bonuses to Nos/Neuts ) just because the ship has launcher slots. Do you also fit lasers or hybrids on vagas ?
As for the OP. Sleipnir can: TANK like a beast for a short ammount of time Nano Apply decent dps Give gang nice speed bonus or Web/Disruptor range
Absolution can: Tank over time very well with standard t2 fit Apply more dmg than sleipnir But it handles like a battleship
So it depends on your stile of play actually, but if you're gonna try and solo in them, TRUST me, don't make the same mistake I did ... train for a BS. Eventually if you really like t2 ships you'll train for all the races (xcept Caldari which kinda suck except for falcon).
Just my 2 cents.
I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ? |
Bootleg Greg
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:30:00 -
[15]
I like my Sleipnir. 780 dps with hail/drones, remotely same with faction and about 560 with barrage. Goes fast, tanks well, and what you can't tank you can run from. For low-sec and mission running, either is good. You like being a slow brick and fly in gangs, abso is your best bet, for solo and small 0.0 gangs, sleipnir is your best bet. Varies on what type of pod pilot you are.
-Bootleg
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brother stud
Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.06 11:54:00 -
[16]
its true, i do prefer the absolution, altho the lack of mids means u sacrifice speed, or locking time, its not really hitting its full potential unless u have all T2 fitting, then u will see that it can soak up damage, and spew out a fair bit too
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Crellion
Art of War Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.06.06 12:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: Diomidis Few people fly Command ships more often than HASs or even Recons. Training up for a CS opens the way for both the Recon and the HAS class - like it or not.
So it's not skilling up is not a simple "Sleipnir vs. Abso" comparison. It's more like Absolution/Zealot/Curse/Sacrilege/Damnation - even Guardian vs. Sleipnir/Vaga/Muninn/Huginn/Rapier/Scimitar etc. The whole T2 med lineup that is! Even BCs will be a pretty good choice once you skill-up to BC lvl 5 (even 4), so think of them too! And do not forget about HICs either! It's also Broadsword vs. Devoter to some ex tense.
If you don't think "that-big" you will not make the most out of your decision = your SP investment. A single ship and/or fitting is doomed to bore you sooner or later.
1) Decide your weapon platform: most Minmatar ships are bonused for projectiles. Still most of them also depend on drone and missile skills a lot. I would say that minmatar ships are more SP-intensive when your are after maximum dps. Amarrian ships like the Zealot or the Abso focus on lasers, but other ships use totally different weapon systems: the Curse for example likes drones and missiles, while the Sacri and the Damnation are though as HAM platforms (or HML in some cases for the latter).
2) Decide your playing style: Minmatar vessels are usually faster and the most successful fittings are nano. You've probably know of the Vagas that roams the 0.0 regions, the Rapiers etc...minmatar are more for guerrilla - hit and run tactics. The Nano-Zealot and Nano-Curse also fight like that, but the Amarr CSs and the Sacrilege can also be tanked pretty effectively. In the HIC arena, I would say the Broadsword is a tad better cause it can regen it's shields, while the Devoter cannot, tho the rigged Devoter is a buffer beast with 40%+ more EHP to start with in standard buffer fits.
Then look at your current skill-tree, use a skill-planner like EVE-mon and "sleep on it"...both races are great once you devote serious skills for them.
Since when does Curse "like missiles" ? This is an idiotic concept invented by poor Curse pilots who fit launchers on it ( against it's two bonuses to Nos/Neuts ) just because the ship has launcher slots. Do you also fit lasers or hybrids on vagas ?
As for the OP. Sleipnir can: TANK like a beast for a short ammount of time Nano Apply decent dps Give gang nice speed bonus or Web/Disruptor range
Absolution can: Tank over time very well with standard t2 fit Apply more dmg than sleipnir But it handles like a battleship
So it depends on your stile of play actually, but if you're gonna try and solo in them, TRUST me, don't make the same mistake I did ... train for a BS. Eventually if you really like t2 ships you'll train for all the races (xcept Caldari which kinda suck except for falcon).
Just my 2 cents.
Regarding your comments on the Curse: In certain circumstances there is no better Curse fit than the one with nano lows shield tank 2xNeuts and 3xHMs. To prevent your further comments I have an Ammar Character that has flown Curse extensively in all the standard configurations and NOT the above one but I can recognise the benefits easily. You would do well to do the same. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Almarez
Setenta Corp Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BiggestT As long as you dont do what i did and train nighthawk, youl be ok
Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
If the Amarr are a colony of ants then CCP is that mean kid with the magnifying glass trying to set the ants on fire. |
Diomidis
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts Since when does Curse "like missiles" ? This is an idiotic concept invented by poor Curse pilots who fit launchers on it ( against it's two bonuses to Nos/Neuts ) just because the ship has launcher slots. Do you also fit lasers or hybrids on vagas ?
Watch you language m8...be polite. In very small roaming gangs hunting down lone ratters or something, the meh dps added by 2-3 HMLs with faction missiles might make the difference between actually making the kill before reinforcements arrive, or not. And it's not like there is much difference neuting/nosing a single opponent, even BS, with more than 2-3 NOS/Neuts, while 20-25% more dps do make a difference when u are soloing.
In larger gangs, you can fit the Curse with a full rack of neuts, even a lot of TD's to make the most out of it's ewar bonuses, but that's a different story, unlike the Vaga n Blasters comedy comparison. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/06/2008 20:53:00
Quote: Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
Well, congratulations to your friend for finding the least competent gang in the entire galaxy.
There is no way that not only a Nighthawk can tank a competent gang and no way that it could have actually held them there to kill them. Your advice to simply put a huge passive tank on it suggests that you should stick to L4s. The Nighthawk is a colossal pile of fail almost completely useless in PVP.
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Talthoras IX
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.07 02:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Talthoras IX on 07/06/2008 02:38:05 Diomidis, you get a cookie for your posts. I thank you for that, and after looking at my skill tree, its looking like the Abso is right for me. Anyways, it looks like it was dipped in blood. Yummeh.
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MegaMarkets
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2008.06.07 02:45:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: BiggestT As long as you dont do what i did and train nighthawk, youl be ok
Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
ROFL!
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Theodox Gotan
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.07 06:42:00 -
[23]
The abso is a great ship. Great tank, nice damage and in gangs I tend to fly it more than my sleipner, but as someone has already stated, the mobility of the abso isnt that great, and the lack of mid slots (amarr as a whole) makes it less than ideal for solo pvp.
I mean, sure you CAN pvp solo with it and go after larger, slower targets, but anything faster than you will just mwd away and without a web there is nothing you can do about it.
The sleipner on the other hand, has very good mobility, good damage, and a decent tank. Although it is still hard to manage a web because of the shield tank, you are going 3-3.3k a second easy so keeping up with faster ships doesnt present that much of a problem.
So basically, both are great ships, it mainly just comes down to preference. I personally prefer going blow for blow with my target and avoiding the nanoish route most of the time so the Abso would be my first pick with the sleipner a very close second.
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Billy Merc
Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.07 07:11:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Billy Merc on 07/06/2008 07:11:41 Abso is more at home with BS gangs.....sleipnir is more at home with roaming gangs...
With max skills, HPL II will hit out to 30km with Scorch (mind you its a hit an miss affair), but @ 25km and under...its bbq time..
Sleipnir max's out at around 25km (occasional hits to 30)...but under 20 is where it all happens fast
As for tank, i like the sleipnirs better, because it can get out of BAD situations fast (1100 rep per cycle), but an abso's will generally out last it over time...abso does more damage...but it is a pig to drive..unlike the sleipnir which is very minble..
220's in sleipnir will eat small suff alive, 425's for when u need to chew bigger stuffs..
Both are BEST cap injected..and u will ususally be able to soak up obscene amounts of damge whilst u have said cap charges...
all in all...sleipnir is my fav
And yes i fly both regularly http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Voice your opinion on the GTC sales changes in the above CSM thread |
Edriahn
Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.06.07 08:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: BiggestT As long as you dont do what i did and train nighthawk, youl be ok
Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
Lol, dude, u believe that? Please, stop fighting in EFT. Whacha saying is not even woth to be commented. I'm waiting too see the omnitank NH for years, but nothing so far, they die like butterflies and deal as much DPS as a futterfly too.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.07 09:59:00 -
[26]
I dunno either, so I'll get both
although most of the time I figure I will be flying around in a battleship
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.07 10:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/06/2008 20:53:00
Quote: Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
Well, congratulations to your friend for finding the least competent gang in the entire galaxy.
There is no way that not only a Nighthawk can tank a competent gang and no way that it could have actually held them there to kill them. Your advice to simply put a huge passive tank on it suggests that you should stick to L4s. The Nighthawk is a colossal pile of fail almost completely useless in PVP.
This.
It rules for missions, but trying to fit it for PvP is a whole different matter. The Drake is better in practically every way... ...
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Lucipher03
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/06/2008 20:53:00
Quote: Oh my friend you have no idea. I've personally seen a nighthawk tank 5 ships, 2 BS and 3 more support long enough to kill off one BS and two support and seriously damage the second BS enough to make them bug out. With that ship just passive tank the hell out of it and make sure you have faction missiles available.
Well, congratulations to your friend for finding the least competent gang in the entire galaxy.
There is no way that not only a Nighthawk can tank a competent gang and no way that it could have actually held them there to kill them. Your advice to simply put a huge passive tank on it suggests that you should stick to L4s. The Nighthawk is a colossal pile of fail almost completely useless in PVP.
This.
It rules for missions, but trying to fit it for PvP is a whole different matter. The Drake is better in practically every way...
Trying to fit for PvP...is all about whether your willing to burn isk or not. If you throw a billion down the tube just because you can, believe me your PvP nighthawk will out-everything on a drake, and quite a few other ships for that matter.
im sitting in my cap stable 86/91/89/86 nighthawk that can tank whatever you can throw at it aslong as you got charges.
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Ay'Not Sivad
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.06.07 12:11:00 -
[29]
like a few said earlier, most people rarely fly command ships more than hac's or recon ships. i'll buy a sleip every now and again just to fool around with, but a huginn/rapier, vagabond, or even a muninn i fly alot more than a sleip.
for the initial question about sleip or abso, if you're a battleship pilot, you'll want to fly the absolution. if you find you fly more cruisers and battlecruisers than you fly battleships, then fly the sleipnir. it's that simple really.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.07 12:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 07/06/2008 12:20:16
Originally by: Lucipher03
Quote: It rules for missions, but trying to fit it for PvP is a whole different matter. The Drake is better in practically every way...
Trying to fit for PvP...is all about whether your willing to burn isk or not. If you throw a billion down the tube just because you can, believe me your PvP nighthawk will out-everything on a drake, and quite a few other ships for that matter.
im sitting in my cap stable 86/91/89/86 nighthawk that can tank whatever you can throw at it aslong as you got charges.
that's the thing. you need to invest in Crystals and a Gist shield booster before it's really good, not to mention the fact you're now relying on cap boosters.
Drake... can MWD, Point, Web and do 550-600 DPS whilst having a 17K hp shield buffer with 60-80% resists that pulls back 180 dps by itself.
Nighthawk gets confused as soon as you try and stick an MWD on it ...
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