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sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:41:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Goumindong
There needs to be a sound reason for keeping these assets in the game which give a significant advantage to the old guard which is unnecessary and against the spirit of eve, regardless of who currently owns them.
That is the attitude of a nerfit hound.
There needs to be a very good reason to nerf summat not the other way around.
1. The price drop on T2 items ppl are complaining about has come from invention not from BPO's.
2. The T2 market will not rise in price just because BPO's have been removed so this entire idea is about jealousy and how others can make slightly higher profits and anybody who thinks differently is a fool or a liar.
3. BPO holders sell them on occasion giving those who had the wisdom and foresight to build investment capital the chance to gain one. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 14:52:00 -
[2]
Originally by: CyrixJester
The problem with T2 BPOs is not related at all to how profitable it may or may not be to own them. As I see it, the concept has two inherent problems which act to restrict the ability of a new player to integrate into the EVE community.
The first and largest problem in my opinion is that the very existence of T2 BPOs acts as an unfair barrier to entry into the T2 marketplace. As it stands now, a new player attempting to enter the market has to either purchase a BPC with a limited number of runs or invent the relevant BPC themselves. Due to the nature of invention, there is a significant amount of isk and time that must be expended in order to enter the market.
An older player without any BPO's has to buy into the market as well buddy just like he needs or needed to train skills or earn isk for ships this is not a eve age issue at all.
Originally by: CyrixJester
On the other hand, those few who were playing the game back when the T2 lottery was in play simply ran a few missions, and were rewarded with free entry into the marketplace.
Wrong
Just because ppl have been playing longer does not mean they have access to t2 bpo's or the market. Ive been playing since 2003 and i do not have a t2 bpo or a t1 for that matter unless it drops from somebody wreck. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean An older player without any BPO's has to buy into the market as well buddy just like he needs or needed to train skills or earn isk for ships this is not a eve age issue at all.
Wrong
Just because ppl have been playing longer does not mean they have access to t2 bpo's or the market. Ive been playing since 2003 and i do not have a t2 bpo or a t1 for that matter unless it drops from somebody wreck.
I really don't miss marakov or whatever your alt was called. Your posting is worse than mine.
Your idea of content and rational argument has not changed much has it.
Go away.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 15:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 11/06/2008 15:04:41
Originally by: CyrixJester
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
An older player without any BPO's has to buy into the market as well buddy just like he needs or needed to train skills or earn isk for ships this is not a eve age issue at all.
How is it not an age issue? The older players had a chance to get T2 BPOs via the lottery, newer players do not. The supply of T2 BPOs is limited by this, and such a restriction only benefits older players who hold the BPOs or can afford to purchase the BPOs. Newer players can either sell GTCs in the hope of getting enough isk to buy one of a limited number of GTCs, or go without.
What about older players who were not carebear mission runners?, they (I) are in the same boat as the newer players.
As i said this is not about age its about jealousy and bitterness, as nothing will change if BPO's get removed other than NOBODY EVER young or old will get a chance to own one.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2008.06.11 15:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CyrixJester
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean What about older players who were not carebear mission runners?, they (I) are in the same boat as the newer players.
As i said this is not about age its about jealousy and bitterness, as nothing will change if BPO's get removed other than NOBODY EVER young or old will get a chance to own one.
Their presence in the game only stands to benefit the few who currently possess them. All other players, young or old, are affected by this. However, the opportunity to own them was only available to the older players. The capital needed to purchase them is only available (without selling GTCs) to the older players. Why shouldn't the BPOs be removed from the game is the better question.
I'm not saying that CCP should simply delete all the T2 BPOs from the owners' hangars, they should be properly compensated. However, the BPOs give a distinct competitive advantage to those players who were around when they were being offered and decided to enter the lottery. The lottery itself was unfair, and the invention system is a better way of handling T2 items. Why not complete the transition?
Why remove them and stop younger or older players from ever owning a t2 bpo as these players may not stay poor forever and young players do get older and richer over time.
T2 BPO's do nothing to reduce the profit of inventors as the inventors themselves have already crashed the market prices of t2 items in their haste to make quick profits.
The only thing removing them would serve is to satisfy the jealousy and envy of bitter ppl who have nothing to gain or lose form the removal other than venomous satisfaction.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 11/06/2008 16:45:38
Originally by: CyrixJester
The T2 market, before invention, was priced the way it was because there were so few actors in the market. The prices dropped drastically because invention allowed drastically more people to enter the market. More supply + constant demand = lower prices. Fairly basic economics.
Exactly, T2 BPO's have had no effect on the profits of inventors these profits have declined due to a now abundance of supply and that is 100% due to invention.
Originally by: CyrixJester
This does not excuse the fact that T2 BPO holders still have a major competitive advantage over those who gain BPCs via invention. Their advantage is that they did not have to expend the capital and time in the invention process to gain their BPO. Due to the nature of the BPO, they will never have to jump through these hurdles to remain in the market.
Total rubbish.
Before invention ppl were buying t2 products from a few areas and transporting them across empire or into low sec or 0.0 to make profit from the markup they added, now they just invent the stuff themselves to make a profit and save themselves the traveling.
Originally by: CyrixJester
Everyone else must continually invent new BPCs in order to remain in the market. This is, in and of itself, unfair. While, in the long run, the advantage of holding a BPO as opposed to a BPC may be only a few percentage points more of profit, this adds up quickly in the highly competitive market in Empire. Profit margins are razor-thin as it is, the BPOs only serve to make the rich richer.
Another load of rubbish.
The market is thin because so many ppl invent and if so many are doing it then it must be profitable. Now a BPO holder may be able to make a little more isk per sale but the fact is that he has zero effect at all on the inventors profit margins in the game as they are already saturating the market and would not be doing that if it was not worth it.
I do not claim that BPO holders do not have a slight advantage but the fact is that the advantage does not negativity effect inventors in any way so complaining about it is just sour grapes and thats pathetic, petty and non issue as far as a removal is concerned.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 18:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arithron Actually, inventors hold a competitive advantage over BPO holders. Inventors can invent and build from multiple BPC at once, so run full factory slots, churning out more product per given time period than a BPO holder.
The BPO holder, unless s/he has multiple copies of a BPO, is stuck with a limited production per given time period.
Over time, the inventor has the edge, since they sell more and hence end up with more iskies, even given slightly lower profit per item. Its a volume effect.
I know players who have only ever invented and made 10's of bils in a year, more than owning a copy of the BPO would have yeilded in the same time.
take care, Arithron
Well said bud unfortunately the cry babies never see this or add it into their equations, they only see that the single BPO can mathematical make a cheaper item on occasion. The larger picture eludes them in their haste to run to the forum crying about it. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 22:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 11/06/2008 22:06:56
Originally by: CyrixJester
BPO holders are only limited in their production if and only if they choose to opt out of invention. Holding a BPO doesn't prevent them from inventing T2 BPCs. The issue with the BPO comes from the fact that once you get the BPO, you never lose production from it. It tilts the market in favor of the BPO holder because he can play by the same rules as everyone else and come out ahead every single time.
A bit of an example to try to clarify my point. We have two producers, both of whom have equal skill in their production and invention skills. Both are producing Vagabonds. However, one of them has a BPO for this item, while the other does not. This BPO lets him produce 2 in one run. The other player must rely on invention and BPCs, which nets him 2 per BPC.
As the second producer can have many BPCs in production, you may think that he has the comparative advantage. He can produce many more Vagabonds than his competitor with the BPO can. Using only his BPO, he can only produce 2 vagabonds in the same time the inventor can produce 2*X vagabonds. X is the number of BPCs he successfully invents.
But wait, why can't the BPO holder also use invention to get Vagabond BPCs as well? He can put in just as much effort as the inventor, yet he will always be able to produce more than the person without the BPO. He changes the formula from 2 versus 2*X to 2+(2*X), BPO + BPCs, versus simply 2*X. The BPO holder always wins in this scenario, unless he gets lazy.
THAT is why it is an unfair competitive advantage, and THAT is why the BPOs need to be removed from the game.
There is no competitive advantage to owning a BPO as they do not reduce the profit of inventors at all.
The difference between the two builders profit in your example is utterly insignificant when you consider the scale on which you are trying to apply it.
YES the BPO holder can make slightly more profit but in no way do BPO's reduce the profits that a inventor can make so to remove them out of spite cos a few ppl who invested billions to buy them can do so is a petty and pathetic act of jealousy. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 06:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Using your example, serious producer building only vagabonds:
BPO holder can produce 18 Vagabonds from invented BPC in x time, plus 3 from BPO (lower production time, let's give him a greter bonus than real). So 21 Vagabonds.
They sell at 100 each, Gain from BPC 10, from BPO 20. total gain 240.
Equivalent producer, using only invnetion. 20 Vagabonds, netting 10 each. His return 200.
The inestment of the first players is something like 40 billions, the investmen of the second player is about 1 billion.
So who is getting the better return from the investment?
Part II. Selling 20 Vagabond each they have crashed the market, now the vagabond sell at 85. They switch invention to another item that cost 90 to invent and sell at 100.
Inventor still get 200 from his inventions. The BPO holder can choose to use the BPo and get 180 from invention and 15 from the BPO for 195 total (less than a pure inventor) or can stop producing from the BPO and do only invention for 200, but then he has unused a 40 billion asset.
THIS.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2008.06.12 12:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/06/2008 12:41:45
Originally by: Bakatu Kat
Why the hell are you all talking about market and profit? For me its simple. I have a corp and t2 bpo owner has one. both have same number of chars in corp. who needs to spend more time to produce t2 ships for number of corpmates? and thats all. time for copying + time of invention + more minerals means that invention looses. solution (apply one or both): 1. change t2 bpos to max run bpcs 2. let me/pe level of t1 bpc influence the outcome of invention (me/pe of t2 bpc)
edit for support
Did you factor in the MULTI billion cost for the BPO and at a margin of a mil or so per ship extra profit for using it you need to build 2-4 thousand ships before you see any return above that of a inventor.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: teji
Originally by: Dianeces Oh, I see now. Because the lottery is gone, you can't get them without working for it anymore. :shobon:
Because the lottery is gone there is no way to get one that doesn't involve bending over.
Do you mean paying for them?.
Would you buy a BPO for 40ish bil when all it would save you is 1-4 mil per ship it builds?. Considering you can put out a almost unlimited number with invention it is not worth it tbh.
The only reason i can see that ppl want BPO's removed is sour grapes cos realistically they are losing nothing by not owning one and buying one is not financially worth it. So we are left with the bitter morons crying about not owning or being able to afford one when they are sold.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/06/2008 21:51:04
Originally by: teji
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Do you mean paying for them?.
Would you buy a BPO for 40ish bil when all it would save you is 1-4 mil per ship it builds?. Considering you can put out a almost unlimited number with invention it is not worth it tbh.
The only reason i can see that ppl want BPO's removed is sour grapes cos realistically they are losing nothing by not owning one and buying one is not financially worth it. So we are left with the bitter morons crying about not owning or being able to afford one when they are sold.
You just illustrated perfectly why t2 bpos aren't realistically acquirable for profit making and leaving them in the game only benefits the old time gamers.
I also pointed out that they are of no real benefit to anybody but i see you chose to snip that bit and the reason why ppl like you still want them removed. (RE-ADDED) |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/06/2008 22:35:44
Originally by: teji
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean I also pointed out that they are of no real benefit to anybody but i see you chose to snip that bit and the reason why ppl like you still want them removed. (RE-ADDED)
They benefit those who got them originally since they didn't have the up-front cost. Also since the ME/PE is still better than any invention they still print isk. I would accept a change for T2 bpos to make them have worse ME/PE than invention instead of removing them from the game. That seems pretty reasonable. You get the benefit of infinite runs without having the randomness of invention.
Negative ppl like you make me sick, you are so full of venom and jealousy that all you can think of is taking from others.
Why not petition for increasing the ME/PE in invention bpc's instead of thinking like a whiney child and thinking nerf nerf nerf.
Did you read post 80 btw, you realy should. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: teji
Yes you can switch easier what you are producing with invention. I thought that much was obvious. However, nothing is keeping the bpo holder using invention as well to supplement the bpo income.
Supplement?.
How does the fact that you can build 100 ships from invention with enough building slots but only 1 from the BPO make invention the "supplemental" item ffs.
The BPO makes a few mil isk per item more than each individual invention bpc but you can have 100's of invention bpc running at the same time as your single BPO.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: The Speaker
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Nynaeve Ares Something needs to be done to level the playing field.
The first thing that invention did was crash the t2 market prices, this was not the bpo holders or the buyers it was the sellers undercutting each other. Now a BPO holder may be able to make a bit more profit that a inventor but thats it and its not effecting the inventors one bit unless you count envy and thats no reason to remove summat.
Inventors have more overall profit-making potential than T2 BPO holders, but it comes at an exponential increase in time, effort and risk. Exponential.
I've got a healthy T2 BPO portfolio, and I dedicate about one hour every week maintaining all of the inputs/outputs for each print. One hour. Sometimes less. It's pretty awesome. It's really cheesy though.
Sure, invention murdered my profit margins, but they're still astronomical by real world standards. 500%? 600%? 700%? 800%? 900%? All the while pricing product lines at rates intended to make inventors cry. I may not be making 5+, 10+, 15+ billion a month off of each BPO like pre-invention times, but it's still a decent living and it comes with the added bonus of knowing you're urinating in some inventor's hopes and dreams for profits.
So yeah, removing T2 BPO wouldn't be a bad idea. It'd suck for those of us with them, but oh well. Mountains of Isk get sort of boring after awhile anyways.
So let me understand this?.
You are a multi T2 bpo holder, you say your profit margin at the moment is between 500 and 900% (how can you not know exactly if your building stuff and selling it?). And al5though you are still making 500%-900% profit you seem to want them removed because you are bored with making mountains of isk?.
Now i do ot want to really call anybody a liar, but your a LIAR.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:03:00 -
[16]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/06/2008 12:05:45 What the inventors and whiners fail to realize is that increasing the ME or PE of invention or screwing around with it to make it more efficient will not help them what so ever simply because the builders will still try to under cut each other and reduce profits even further. BPO holders and BPO's are not the problem and do not effect the market or the profits of inverters at all, inventors are doing that by competing with each other so a reduction in costs will either not effect profits or reduce them further and BPO's have nothing to do with it.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: teji
Quote: What the inventors and whiners fail to realize is that increasing the ME or PE of invention or screwing around with it to make it more efficient will not help them what so ever simply because the builders will still try to under cut each other and reduce profits even further.
Yes it will. They can now compete at a better than bpo cost base. The effort will still be higher but the end product will be cheaper. It will allow them to eliminate the profit margins of bpo holders in the major markets.
BPO holders ain't dropping the prices down its the inventors that are crashing the market cos of competition the BPO holders will set prices around the cost of the market but inventors are constantly under cutting each other. So making invention easier or cheaper will just make T2 items cheaper and thus less profit for all but BPO holders have nothing to do with the decrease. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: teji
Quote: BPO holders ain't dropping the prices down its the inventors that are crashing the market cos of competition the BPO holders will set prices around the cost of the market but inventors are constantly under cutting each other. So making invention easier or cheaper will just make T2 items cheaper and thus less profit for all but BPO holders have nothing to do with the decrease.
Waaaaaaaaaaaah? Is that what you were trying to say? That CCP dared to implement some system where bpo holders would have some competition? CCP preserved a profit margin for you by making invention have -ME. Inventors will never be able to compete with you purely on a cost basis. If there are some people that are selling items below invention cost somewhere buy the **** and relist it. Don't come crying on the forums that invention killed your exorbitant margins and now you are stuck with margins that are still better than anyone else has.
Never had a T2 bpo or any other sort for that matter and i could not care about T2 holders profit or inventors for that matter. What i do not like is "WAAABULANCE" nerfits who think that they deserve to be given a free hand out or up while others spent years getting into the same position.
T2 BPO holder deserve to make a little more profit that ppl without them and considering that they do not effect the profits that inventors make one bit the only reason to remove them is because of jealous cry baby prats who are never satisfied no matter what is done. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:20:00 -
[19]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/06/2008 16:22:04
Originally by: teji
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean T2 BPO holder deserve to make a little more profit that ppl without them and considering that they do not effect the profits that inventors make one bit the only reason to remove them is because of jealous cry baby prats who are never satisfied no matter what is done.
T2 BPO holders deserve nothing. When things need to change the last thing that needs to be thought about is entitlement. When titans get nerfed will the alliances that build them get a refund? Nope. It doesn't matter that you spend 60 billion isk on the titan bpo and many billions more to build one. When **** is broken you fix it.
BPO's work fine as far as Ive been told and they have zero impact on players in eve other than those who own them or buy them in the future, so not broken in fact working perfectly.
If your going to make accusations of corruption within ccp i suggest you have facts to back it up or start a thread for the csm to investigate it.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 17:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/06/2008 17:20:24
Originally by: The Speaker Originally by: Venkul Mul Boy you are a bad liar. You don't know a bit about the BPO return. Or you are a very bad builder and think that the minerals and T2 building materials are free because you build them yourself.
Yes, proper accounting and math is oh so difficult Nice try at refuting points by trying the marginalize-your-opponent route.
Who knows. Maybe your prints are no longer very profitable. Maybe you are a horrifically inept builder. Honestly, that's most likely not the case - but it's a strong strategic move for you to try to paint the picture that T2 BPO holders are oh-woe-is-me nerfed and deserve more. I understand why you would take that tack, but it's somewhat transparent.
As far as the other guy's assertion that T2 BPO holders aren't the ones driving margins down, in some cases this is true but in others it most definitely isn't. Some T2 BPO holders derive a warped sense of glee by griefing inventors and other BPO holders. I know that I do. Unfortunately I've only been able to kill the margins on four, maybe five, product lines (which really is just a drop in the bucket) .
Still more lies from the guy who claimed to be making 500-900% profit from his BPO's, AFTER invention came out.
Originally by: The Speaker
Sure, invention murdered my profit margins, but they're still astronomical by real world standards, 500%? 600%? 700%? 800%? 900%? All the while pricing product lines at rates intended to make inventors cry.
You should have researched prices and profit margins before posting this total delusion.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 13/06/2008 19:55:50
Originally by: teji
As far as my hypothesis of CCP employees having t2 bpos. It's the only logical reason that I can come up with that they are still around. Eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth (yes I stole a quote). Since there is no logical reason to leave t2 bpos in the game what remains is that personal interest has interfered with good game design sense.
Your ignoring the obvious reasons they do not remove them like:
1. As with the fed navy and other ships the T2 BPO's are a pinnacle of their particular type in the game.
2. They effect game design and game play not at all unless your a jealous and bitter nerf hound, and so there is NO reason to remove or nerf them unlike every other removal or nerf the game has seen.
3. They are available or at least can be available for ppl to buy if they have enough isk to do so.
Now considering these facts id say your Sherlock Holmes logic needs a lot of work. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: teji
1) If you are talking about unique ships that have been given out in the past that isn't a good idea either.
Nice argument well presented.
Originally by: teji
2) Either they A) don't matter or B) are extremely valuable (see: contracts). So either they are imbalanced which is shown by the ridiculous sale prices or they don't matter so no one should miss them if they were to be removed.
Even if they are ridiculously priced nobody is forced to buy them, and they do not matter to others as far as effecting profits are concerned. So the only reason to remove or nerf them is because ppl are bitter cos they do not own one and that is the worst reason to do anything as ppl like that (you) should not be catered to EVER.
Originally by: teji
3) A bpo that I want never comes up to contract or it's put up at such a high price it is unfeasable to own it. Either way it doesn't matter. It's not available.
Just because you think the price is unfeasible does not mean other would not like to add one to their trophy case, who do you think you are to remove a item from the game that has zero effect on your game at all just because you feel its over priced. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: teji Let me boil this down as simple as possible. It is in CCP's best interest to preserve some sort of equal opportunitiy between players. This is the basis of pretty much every multiplayer game design.
Good game designers don't arbitrarily say ok you get a free pass and you don't. You don't just give an arbitrary set of people a magic bullet that instantly kills everyone else and even dream of it being considered fair. That is why the lottery system was doomed from the moment it was conceived. Work should be rewarded. More work should reward more. This is why invention is so great. Randomness is part of the system but not so much that it prohibits anyone from entering a market.
BPO's in the game do nothing to effect the profits of inventors so other than jealousy your whole point here is worthless.
Originally by: teji I never want to purchase a blueprint and I have no interest in building anything. I could not care less about owning one of these or reaping the rewards of having such an item.
The rewards are minuscule for a good builder and just because you cannot afford one or do not want one is not reason to remove them from the game. In fact because you want nothing to do with them they do not effect you or your game play at all.
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sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Blackjack Turner Lies, greed, envy. This is all the posters who would leave the T2 BPO's in game have to argue with. Made mostly by T2 BPO owner's alts I'm sure.
Im a main actually, if you understood manufacturing you would know that BPO's do not effect inventors at all or their profits. So the only reason anybody would want them removed is false greed, envy and jealousy as no other real reason exists.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Reachok
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Blackjack Turner Lies, greed, envy. This is all the posters who would leave the T2 BPO's in game have to argue with. Made mostly by T2 BPO owner's alts I'm sure.
Im a main actually, if you understood manufacturing you would know that BPO's do not effect inventors at all or their profits. So the only reason anybody would want them removed is false greed, envy and jealousy as no other real reason exists.
You've just clearly illustrated my point. Thanks!
Your point claims that i am a alt (im not) and that their are other reasons why ppl want BPO's removed.
Did you not read your own post?.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bra'nn Draythe
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
Originally by: Blackjack Turner Lies, greed, envy. This is all the posters who would leave the T2 BPO's in game have to argue with. Made mostly by T2 BPO owner's alts I'm sure.
Im a main actually, if you understood manufacturing you would know that BPO's do not effect inventors at all or their profits. So the only reason anybody would want them removed is false greed, envy and jealousy as no other real reason exists.
It's amusing how you can say something and not know what you're talking about.
The profit of something is determined by it's selling price. The selling price is determined by market conditions. You can put a T2 ship or item on the market for higher than the current price, but it probably won't sell all that quickly. That's what keeps your price lower to draw more consumer demand (Because they don't want to pay more, and EVE won't let them for that matter)
You have a minimum amount you can sell it for before you actually realize a loss on your product. That's determined by the costs of manufacturing. If your costs are higher than mine and there's nothing you can do about it, the competitive advantage is in my court. This is what's known as the "Wal-Mart" effect. Lower costs = Lower prices with a profit = driving out of business those with higher costs.
Ok bud so you claim that even though the T2 market for years has been steady and the although plummet coincided exactly with the onset of invention that its the BPO owners that are driving it down. Although for years the BPO holders had the sense to keep the market high suddenly they have decided to crash it?.
The BPO guys and gals may be able to make a slightly higher profit than inventors but that profit does not effect in the slightest inventors or their profits as the market and demand is way to large (a fact you either ignored as it did not suit you and your point, or you were just ignorant of because of a lack of insight).
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:36:00 -
[27]
Your missing the fact that nobody is saying that the T2 bpo guys cannot make more isk per sale on the ships they build from their BPO as they of course can without a doubt.
But the fact is that the market is so large and varied that they do not effect the profits of a inventor in the slightest and to claim that they do is absurd.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
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