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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.11 21:28:00 -
[1]
T2 bpos should have been removed when invention was released. The fact that they still exist probably proves some CCP devs have a large stash of them that they don't want to give up.
T2 bpos are not available to the new player anymore. New players are completely at the mercy of older players if they even wish to purchase one at a ridiculously inflated price.
It's dumb and the only people supporting keeping them have private t2 bpos that they have been making money on since the beginning of time. It's time to kill off a bad idea once and for all.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 20:30:32 It's hilarious people trying to justify t2 bpos to stay in the game with some sort of I paid x number of isk for something as if it means anything at all. Please, really you make me laugh.
When items can no longer be acquired by anyone in game they should no longer exist in game. This is pretty standard game design stuff which CCP and some people here can't get their head around.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dianeces You're absolutely right, you can't buy T2 BPOs at all. Ever. They're never sold. Especially since (insert large alliance here) has them all.
The mechanism for releasing t2 bpos into the game is gone. Unless they reinstated the lottery when I wasn't looking.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 21:18:06 Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 21:17:44
Originally by: Dianeces Oh, I see now. Because the lottery is gone, you can't get them without working for it anymore. :shobon:
Because the lottery is gone there is no way to get one that doesn't involve bending over.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 21:39:29
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Would you buy a BPO for 40ish bil when all it would save you is 1-4 mil per ship it builds?. Considering you can put out a almost unlimited number with invention it is not worth it tbh.
You just illustrated perfectly why t2 bpos aren't realistically acquirable for profit making and leaving them in the game only benefits the old time gamers.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 22:28:39 Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 22:27:47
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean I also pointed out that they are of no real benefit to anybody but i see you chose to snip that bit and the reason why ppl like you still want them removed. (RE-ADDED)
They benefit those who got them originally since they didn't have the up-front cost. Also since the ME/PE is still better than any invention they still print isk. I would accept a change for T2 bpos to make them have worse ME/PE than invention instead of removing them from the game. That seems pretty reasonable. You get the benefit of infinite runs without having the randomness of invention. |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: teji on 12/06/2008 23:05:13
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Negative ppl like you make me sick, you are so full of venom and jealousy that all you can think of is taking from others.
Let me restate the same thing in a different way. Change the balance of PE/ME to make invention more profitable than a T2 bpo for a given item. I don't care how it's done. Nerf or buff it really makes no difference to me. Apparently people have severe allergic reactions to the word nerf even though buffing a different item has the same effect.
Quote: Did you read post 80 btw, you realy should.
Yes you can switch easier what you are producing with invention. I thought that much was obvious. However, nothing is keeping the bpo holder using invention as well to suppliment the bpo income. |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 15:55:12 Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 15:54:27 Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 15:51:11 Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 15:47:52
Originally by: Venkul Mul "Disintegrate immediately the Imperial Apoc, Federate Megathron, Guardian Vexor, Raven State issue, ecc. They can't the acquired in game."
Wow, give this man a cookie. You came up with another good idea. Although the imbalance created by a few people playing hangar queen with these ships is no where near the effect that t2 bpos have.
I see the old playes are still with their fingers in their ears refusing to listen to explanations on total cost and effort between invention and bpo.
Quote: What the inventors and whiners fail to realize is that increasing the ME or PE of invention or screwing around with it to make it more efficient will not help them what so ever simply because the builders will still try to under cut each other and reduce profits even further.
Yes it will. They would now compete at a better than bpo cost base. The effort will still be higher but the end product will be cheaper. It will allow them to eliminate the profit margins of bpo holders in the major markets.
Quote: Given that people actually pay tens of billions for them, I'd have to say that they can't be that bad an investment. Nobody gets 40 billion without having some idea of how to judge profitability.
I never said players in this game were very smart in their purchases. Isk != IQ |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:07:00 -
[9]
Quote: BPO holders ain't dropping the prices down its the inventors that are crashing the market cos of competition the BPO holders will set prices around the cost of the market but inventors are constantly under cutting each other. So making invention easier or cheaper will just make T2 items cheaper and thus less profit for all but BPO holders have nothing to do with the decrease.
Waaaaaaaaaaaah? Is that what you were trying to say? That CCP dared to implement some system where bpo holders would have some competition? CCP preserved a profit margin for you by making invention have -ME. Inventors will never be able to compete with you purely on a cost basis. If there are some people that are selling items below invention cost somewhere buy the **** and relist it. Don't come crying on the forums that invention killed your exorbitant margins and now you are stuck with margins that are still better than anyone else has.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:17:00 -
[10]
Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 16:19:36
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean T2 BPO holder deserve to make a little more profit that ppl without them and considering that they do not effect the profits that inventors make one bit the only reason to remove them is because of jealous cry baby prats who are never satisfied no matter what is done.
T2 BPO holders deserve nothing. When things need to change the last thing that needs to be thought about is entitlement. When titans get nerfed will the alliances that build them get a refund? Nope. It doesn't matter that you spend 60 billion isk on the titan bpo and many billions more to build one. When **** is broken you fix it.
Like I said before some CCP dev probably has a ton of T2 bpos which is why we will never end up seeing this fixed. I wish I could prove this though.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jinx Barker I still firmly believe that the provocateurs on both sides are really afraid to ask the developers of the game real questions, because they are really afraid of the answers.
I know the answers already. It will be the same type of crap that the FW alliance explantion was. Nothing compelling but alot of fluff about how they feel.
I stand by my statement of: If it's not available for anyone to get then it shouldn't be in the game. It's the same reason that the lottery was a failure as a game concept and why many other games that try the same type of thing remove it shortly after. Except in this case there is some unkown reason to keep the remenants of a failed system around. To make it even more funny they made invention less profitable than the bpos.
As far as my hypothesis of CCP employees having t2 bpos. It's the only logical reason that I can come up with that they are still around. Eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth (yes I stole a quote). Since there is no logical reason to leave t2 bpos in the game what remains is that personal interest has interfered with good game design sense.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Anane lemme just say one thing... if you don't like the way CCP runs the game then WHY are you playing it? it is just a game after all, no one is forcing you to play it.
Why are you reading this forum? All this forum contains are people asking for changes that they would like to see in game. That is the purpose of this forum. To discuss what you would like to see changed. Hence we are discussing it.
This thread is for talking about t2 bpos. This is not for complaining about other forum members. Please stay on topic. Thanks |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: teji on 13/06/2008 20:57:01
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
1. As with the fed navy and other ships the T2 BPO's are a pinnacle of their particular type in the game.
2. They effect game design and game play not at all unless your a jealous and bitter nerf hound, and so there is NO reason to remove or nerf them unlike every other removal or nerf the game has seen.
3. They are available or at least can be available for ppl to buy if they have enough isk to do so.
1) T2 bpos have nothing to do with things that anyone can purchase by running some missions. Maybe if they removed the missions and left the ships in the game you might have a point. If you are talking about unique ships that have been given out in the past that isn't a good idea either.
2) Either they A) don't matter or B) are extremely valuable (see: contracts). So either they are imbalanced which is shown by the ridiculous sale prices or they don't matter so no one should miss them if they were to be removed.
3) A bpo that I want never comes up to contract or it's put up at such a high price it is unfeasable to own it. Either way it doesn't matter. It's not available. |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:52:00 -
[14]
Let me boil this down as simple as possible. It is in CCP's best interest to preserve some sort of equal opportunitiy between players. This is the basis of pretty much every multiplayer game design.
Good game designers don't arbitrarily say ok you get a free pass and you don't. You don't just give an arbitrary set of people a magic bullet that instantly kills everyone else and even dream of it being considered fair. That is why the lottery system was doomed from the moment it was conceived. Work should be rewarded. More work should reward more. This is why invention is so great. Randomness is part of the system but not so much that it prohibits anyone from entering a market.
I never want to purchase a blueprint and I have no interest in building anything. I could not care less about owning one of these or reaping the rewards of having such an item. If you think this has anything to do with me you are wrong. This is about getting CCP to realize they ****** up.
If you want to rant and rave about how bitter I am please go ahead. Maybe we can reference some conspiracy theories too. |
teji
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Posted - 2008.06.13 22:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean BPO's in the game do nothing to effect the profits of inventors so other than jealousy your whole point here is worthless.
Oh yes my jealousy drives me . I'm just against free rides which the lottery and the t2 bpo situation was / is. I suppose that makes me jealous. Whatever, you won't listen to anything I say and I won't listen to what you say.
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