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Securitas Protector
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:19:00 -
[1]
Okay, I fly Gallente and Amarr, and I have a friend who says "Gallente is the worst at everything, 3rd worst at PVP, 4th worst at PVP, even Caldari are better. They suck at everything."
Is this true and why or why not?
I have my own opinions, but I would like some examples from the pvp gods out there...
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:23:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Securitas Protector Okay, I fly Gallente and Amarr, and I have a friend who says "Amarr is the worst at everything, 3rd worst at PVP, 4th worst at PVP, even Caldari are better. They suck at everything."
Is this true and why or why not?
I have my own opinions, but I would like some examples from the pvp gods out there...
Fixed your friends statement for you. --
Billion Isk Mission |
tarin adur
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Securitas Protector Okay, I fly Gallente and Amarr, and I have a friend who says "Amarr is the worst at everything, 3rd worst at PVP, 4th worst at PVP, even Caldari are better. They suck at everything."
Is this true and why or why not?
I have my own opinions, but I would like some examples from the pvp gods out there...
Fixed your friends statement for you.
Confirmed
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:32:00 -
[4]
No, they don't suck at everything. The game is shifting away from their paradigm, though. The reasons to fly Gallente any other race are much weaker today than they have been historically.
Honestly, the races as a whole are fairly reasonably balanced. There are specific balance issues that need to be resolved though. The most egregious example is the Pilgrim, though there are many more.
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:32:00 -
[5]
Don't fly Amarr like you fly Gallente like you fly Minmatar like you fly Caldari. Just don't.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Fixed your friends statement for you.
Amarr don't suck at PVP, just an FYI. They're first or second right now... hard to imagine why you would think them last. :)
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Admiral Madbull
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:33:00 -
[7]
DONT listen to that friend, he has no clue
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Spectre3353
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:35:00 -
[8]
Your friend is a dummy. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
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Aainti
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:36:00 -
[9]
as I see it Gallente are very good for PvP (Blasterrax is awesome). Due to missiles requiring no faffing about with tracking Caldari tend to be good for mission running as you can just sit there and pop everything from a reasonable distance. Apparently Amarr only get good after you have a lot of sp in gunnery and are flying a battlecruiser and above but after then they really pay off. Not sure what Minmitar are good at though (please tell me lol never used and of their ships).
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Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:37:00 -
[10]
While Gallente are by no stretch of the imagination the former King of the Hill they were historically, they probably have a wider array of useful ships in their armada than most any other race. Your friend is very misinformed. ---
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Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.06.09 20:39:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tamoko on 09/06/2008 20:40:06
Originally by: Aainti Not sure what Minmitar are good at though (please tell me lol never used and of their ships). Overall they are well balenced so maybe your friend should rethink his oppinion :)
FYI, lol isn't punctuation.
Minmatar have a number of heavy hitter ships. Rupture and Hurricane come to mind. Also some very nice ewar in their recon ships. Unfortunately, their battleship line is the weakest in the game. ---
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Jastra
Stardream Research
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:01:00 -
[12]
I've never understood the mixing of the characters race with the racial ships, surely it makes no odds if you created a gallente character and then trained for noting but Caldari ships ? - so does the OP mean Gallente ships suck ??
Anyway, no, Galllente have some very nice ships, best hauler, excellent blockade runner, good cruisers, the flying potato, our frigates do suck though, and of course now the Helios will look bleedin' awful as well from tommorow :(
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Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jastra I've never understood the mixing of the characters race with the racial ships, surely it makes no odds if you created a gallente character and then trained for noting but Caldari ships ? - so does the OP mean Gallente ships suck ??
Anyway, no, Galllente have some very nice ships, best hauler, excellent blockade runner, good cruisers, the flying potato, our frigates do suck though, and of course now the Helios will look bleedin' awful as well from tommorow :(
Incursus and Tristan are both very fine ships. Some old corpies favour the Incurus for killing inties, and they're frighteningly good at it. ---
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Jastra
Stardream Research
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:04:00 -
[14]
Actually, yeah, incursus is good for frig PvP, etc, I can never get a good fit on a tristan, always seem too tight
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Amastat on 09/06/2008 21:17:14
Your friend is clueless. Gallente historically were, though debatable, the best PvP race in the game - as a previous poster said, EVE is moving away from Gallente right now so their moment in the sun is over; however, it's really hard to say WHICH of the 4 races is the best for PvP right now, it's that balanced.
The best race for PvP would have to be the race with the most meaningful/usable ships I feel.
This list may be off, but this is what I have experienced/observed as the most meaningful/usable/popular PvP ships that each race currently has - excluding Industrials/Capitals:
*Ships presented in bold lettering are a popular choice among their class *EAS Ships I have barely had the chance to really ever encounter and fight, so due to being unsure, I have not listed them *I have not listed Destroyers/Frigates because I cannot remember the last time I have seen them used in PvP besides tackling, which they are all almost equally good at *Ships that are extremely rare sights, or dead-ships that no one cares about, are not listed
Amarr: (T1 Ships) Arbitrator Maller Harbinger Armageddon Apocalypse Abaddon (T2 Ships) Purifier Anathema Malediction Crusader Retribution Heretic Pilgrim Curse Zealot Sacrilege Damnation Absolution
Caldari: (T1 Ships) Blackbird Caracal Drake Scorpion Raven Rokh (T2 Ships) Manticore Buzzard Crow Harpy Flycatcher Falcon Cerberus Onyx Nighthawk Vulture Widow
Gallente: (T1 Ships) Celestis Thorax Vexor Brutix Myrmidon Dominix Megathron Hyperion (T2 Ships) Nemesis Helios Taranis Ares Enyo Ishkur Lachesis Arazu Deimos Ishtar Phobos Astarte Sin
Minmatar: (T1 Ships) Bellicose Stabber Rupture Hurricane Typhoon Tempest Mealstrom (T2 Ships) Hound Cheetah Claw Jaguar Wolf Sabre Huginn Rapier Vagabond Muninn Broadsword Sleipnir
TOTAL:
Amarr: 18 Ships, 9 of which are popular for their class Caldari: 17 Ships, 8 of which are popular for their class Gallente: 21 Ships, 10 of which are popular for their class Minmatar: 19 Ships, 11 of which are popular for their class
This evenly fits out with the demographics of what races/ships are used in PvP, so I am assuming this is accurate for the most part - however some fanboi's of a partcular ship/race will probably flame this post.
The Gallente on a DPS view are still by popular view the best, however there is a few ships that are not Gallente that can deal radical DPS. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
GreGh Rakrot
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:10:00 -
[16]
People usualy whine/rant that certain race ships suck because they fly them outside their role, or should I say, outside what ship can do well. Fly your ships in a way to show their strenghts and hide weakness, how to do that comes from practice and experience. But players like shortcuts and easy way more, so they jump into ship, try to use it for something it wasnt intended for and are dissapointed after.
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Amastat Amarr
+ Geddon, Zealot, Abso as good and commonly seen ships. - Pilgrim, it sucks horribly.
Quote: Caldari
+ Caracal, Rokh, Drake, and Onyx as commonly seen and good ships.
Quote: Gallente
+ Brutix, Tarais, and Astarte as commonly seen and good ships.
Quote: Minmatar
+ Stabber, Rupture, Maelstrom, Jaguar as commonly seen and good ships. - Wolf, not a lot of reason to fly it in today's environment.
I wouldn't have bothered to correct you (as you're not all that wrong), but for the Pilgrim being marked as good. :P
-Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
Daziel Iaar
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:18:00 -
[18]
It do alot of research and find what ship you find the most comfortable in, took me a while but i am getting around to.
Do you like close range, medium range or long range? Do you like shield tanking or armour tanking or speed tanking? Do you like missiles, lasers, machine guns, drones or combination?
Keep in mind every ship has a ship that can counter is easily, consider what you will be most likely to face and maybe try that one.
Theres more questions you can ask yourself. You just need to do some research.
"His Will Be Done" |
Ruciza
The Feminists
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ruciza on 09/06/2008 21:24:36
Originally by: Liang Nuren There are specific balance issues that need to be resolved though. The most egregious example is the Pilgrim.
-Liang
And you hope it becomes true if you repeat it often enough.
Anyway, Gallente are fine. It's the pilots that suck. As always. You see, there is the flavour of the month. Now everybody considers combat ships teh suck if they can't fly them like the Vagabond. Some time ago those ships sucked that you can't shoehorn into a Thorax-like role. With battleships it still holds true, if you can't beat the Megathron at 10km, your ship or setup must suck. With EW it is the Falcon - if you aren't effective from 150km off you suck, because it's oh so much better (even if obvious and easy counters fly into your face).
The Pilgrim doesn't conform to the flavour of the month (can't be nanoed because of low range) and presto it must be bad. Oh, and the nos nerf of course, which only nerfed one cookie cutter Pilgrim setup. Since the whiners lack the imagination to go beyond that single setup apart from nano, everything sucks now. Laughable.
It's the same crap with Gallente whiners. Probably. Btw forget posting tactics and setups that do not conform to the FOTM. Whiners will show up and smother you with selective perception. Weak people find solace in the status quo and the tried and true (aka conservatives). Don't disturb their sensitive peace of mind. Ssshhhh. The herd is grazing on.
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:23:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Amastat on 09/06/2008 21:29:12 Edited by: Amastat on 09/06/2008 21:25:41
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Amastat Amarr
+ Geddon, Zealot, Abso as good and commonly seen ships. - Pilgrim, it sucks horribly.
Quote: Caldari
+ Caracal, Rokh, Drake, and Onyx as commonly seen and good ships.
Quote: Gallente
+ Brutix, Tarais, and Astarte as commonly seen and good ships.
Quote: Minmatar
+ Stabber, Rupture, Maelstrom, Jaguar as commonly seen and good ships. - Wolf, not a lot of reason to fly it in today's environment.
I wouldn't have bothered to correct you (as you're not all that wrong), but for the Pilgrim being marked as good. :P
-Liang
Ah - np :P I knew I would of been off in at least 1-2 ships.
I have not been PvP with roaming gangs as of late, so I'm a bit out of date in terms of the last time I saw roaming recon-packs going through low-sec/0.0.
Everything else; that's cool. It all depends on what you consider popular or not though - Rokh in example is not always seen in a fleet, wereas a Raven is extremly commonplace in fleets, battleships in general. Geddon I also was going to put up there, but you always see like at least 3 times more Apocs in a fleet than Geddons.
Good input though, I support your edits.
To it concerns, it was not like this months ago, like during Revelations. Caldari and Amarr were wayyyyy back behind the Gallente and Minmatar back then, they have now really just caught up ever since Trinity/Boost Patch - which is good, about time that was done.
EDIT:
I realized that you also edited Astarte, that in the least was a typo and should of already been bold. Edits made :P ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
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JenDen
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:04:00 -
[21]
And don't forget Gallente have pretty nice capitals - Sig: StackNerfing * GangLinks |
AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tamoko
Minmatar have a number of heavy hitter ships. Rupture and Hurricane come to mind. Also some very nice ewar in their recon ships. Unfortunately, their battleship line is the weakest in the game.
Not sure what you qualify as "heavy hitter". Gallente and Amarr BCs hit harder than the cane, and gallente and (probably?) even amarr cuisers hit harder than the rupture.
But it's okay, right, because we have cool recons
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Not sure what you qualify as "heavy hitter". Gallente and Amarr BCs hit harder than the cane...
Umm... Fairly certain that the Hurricane is the only BC with a double damage bonus. and it has enough grid to fit the weapons it needs. I'll tackle Myrms, Brutixi, and even Harbies before a Cane.
Originally by: AstroPhobic ...and gallente and (probably?) even amarr cuisers hit harder than the rupture.
LOL. No. Ruppie is a beast in the right hands. (Sadly those hands are not mine )
Taxman V: Back in Black
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TimMc
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:20:00 -
[24]
Races are pretty balanced. And remember everything Gallente lack in performance we make up in style.
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:14:00 -
[25]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 10/06/2008 01:14:46
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Originally by: AstroPhobic Not sure what you qualify as "heavy hitter". Gallente and Amarr BCs hit harder than the cane...
Umm... Fairly certain that the Hurricane is the only BC with a double damage bonus. and it has enough grid to fit the weapons it needs. I'll tackle Myrms, Brutixi, and even Harbies before a Cane.
Nice try! Even with the double damage bonus, it's easily outDPS'd EVEN at AC's optimal range (This means not including falloff - where you ACTUALLY fight!). Brutix, Myrmidon, Harbinger, probably even the prophecy.
Quote:
Originally by: AstroPhobic ...and gallente and (probably?) even amarr cuisers hit harder than the rupture.
LOL. No. Ruppie is a beast in the right hands. (Sadly those hands are not mine )
Beast? Because it can fit a 1600 plate and ACs, maybe. Doesn't make it a "heavy hitter".
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Deschenus Maximus
Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:40:00 -
[26]
Tbh, things are the most balanced I've seen them since I started playing this game (almost two years now). There are still some fixing to be done, but things aren't grossly in favour of one particular race anymore.
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Clinically
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:47:00 -
[27]
Your friend is a dud, get new ones. ________________
Originally by: Evil Thug I wear pink panties.
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Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.06.10 01:52:00 -
[28]
Yup.
Megathron. One of the top BSs in the game. Easily. Dominix. Wicked tank + heavy drones. Ishtar. Dedicated drone-carrier, second to none. Heavies, anyone? Vexor. Mean cruiser, through and through. Most players love the Vex. Kronos. Nothing more needs to be said. Nyx. Coolest looking carrier, at least. The list goes on . . .
If anything, drones are *potentially* a huge advantage. Just exploit it. Bonuses to hybrids including blasters - the top damage dealer in the game. Bonuses to drones, too.
Yeah, Gallente suck.
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Spectre3353
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Amezyarak Yup.
Megathron. One of the top BSs in the game. Easily. Dominix. Wicked tank + heavy drones. Ishtar. Dedicated drone-carrier, second to none. Heavies, anyone? Vexor. Mean cruiser, through and through. Most players love the Vex. Kronos. Nothing more needs to be said. Nyx. Coolest looking carrier, at least. The list goes on . . .
If anything, drones are *potentially* a huge advantage. Just exploit it. Bonuses to hybrids including blasters - the top damage dealer in the game. Bonuses to drones, too.
Yeah, Gallente suck.
Yea, the list does go on:
Taranis. A crazy strong little suicidal blaster inti. Incursus. The Taranis's little brother. Thorax. One of the only two T1 cruisers that I am terrified of in 1v1 fights (that and the Rupture). How is it fair that a ship with this much firepower is also given the ability to fit 5x medium ECM drones? Myrmidon. Awesome looking ship, can be tanked in a variety of very effective ways. Ishkur. Probably one of the most effective and versatile assault frigates in the game ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.10 20:34:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/06/2008 20:36:06
Originally by: James Lyrus Your friend is wrong. Gallente is good. It's just not as far ahead of the rest as it was once upon a time.
Arguably not really ahead at all, unless the only thing you care about is EFT damage.
-Liang
Ed: I want to clarify that I don't think they're particularly behind either (except perhaps in recons... but the Pilgrim is admittedly even worse off). :) -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved. |
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