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levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:00:00 -
[1]
Hi,
i'm trying to get my nighthawk good for a pvp gang. So it must be compare to a drake cause they are similar on a number of point, but there is some important differances :
Drake has a wider shield capacity with the same recharge time. Drake has a smaller capacitor capacity with higher recharge time. Drake has a smaller cargo capacity. Drake has more powergrid.
So, for those reasons, the drake must be a passive tank and then nighthawk an active tank.
The real problem of the nighhawk is the powergrid, it can be resolve by fitting a ancillary current router.
Here is my loadout :
6 x Heavy missile launcher t2
1 x faction shield booster 1 x invulnerability field t2 1 x photon scattering field t2 1 x medium capacitor booster t2 (with cap 200) 1 x large shield extender t2
3 x ballic control system t2 2 x power diagnostic system t2
1 x CCC 1 x ancillary current router
Do you think it's a good fit ? or a passive drake is better in a gang ?
(Sorry for my english)
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:09:00 -
[2]
Quote: Do you think it's a good fit ? or a passive drake is better in a gang ?
Only because it's cheaper... I'm not a huge fan of the Nighthawk at all. :-/
-Liang |
FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:12:00 -
[3]
moar drake threads... |
Miastir Teragban
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote: Do you think it's a good fit ? or a passive drake is better in a gang ?
Only because it's cheaper... I'm not a huge fan of the Nighthawk at all. :-/
-Liang
Yes, i forgot to mention it. |
Miastir Teragban
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: FOFOFOF moar drake threads...
it's a nighthawk thread... |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: levidec So, for those reasons, the drake must be a passive tank and then nighthawk an active tank.
BZZT, wrong. Unless you plan to go faction-fit plus MWD and heavy cap booster, there's no reason to go active with a Nighthawk. Overall, yeah, a NH has a slightly worse DPS tanked and EHP in similar passive fits, but it compensates by focusing most damage resistance on the thermal/kinetic side, so you can actually get away with a single hardener (or one plus invul) on most PvP fits, leaving one or two slots free for MWD and/or scram.
Quote: Drake has more powergrid.
And yet, a NH is still easier to fit than a Drake, thanks to fit only 6 launchers that deal the DPS of an equivalent 8 launchers on a Drake. Not only is a NH easier to fit grid-wise, but also CPU-wise.
All that being said, still, I'd prefer a Drake over a Nighthawk in PvP, but only because of the price difference.
1|2|3|4|5 |
levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:50:00 -
[7]
Thanks for replying. I will take your advise with attention and trying to make a passive nighthawk
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FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:24:00 -
[8]
Passive tanking does use cap (because the SPRs cut into your cap recharge rate), and you need cap to run your active hardeners, so the Nighthawk is not at a disadvantage when passive tanking. In fact, my passive tank setups require good cap skills/implants to run properly (permarun). When set up for passive tanking, my Nighthawk out tanks and out DPSs my Drake by a fair bit (as it should for the cost).
I wouldn't fly either ship in PvP - I'd fly a Cerberus, Raven or Caracal instead (if I wanted to fly a Caldari missile boat). ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:33:00 -
[9]
What kind of role do you give to your cerberus in a gang ? |
Fist1
Conclave of Shawdows StarFleet Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Fist1 on 12/06/2008 23:03:17 a NH with 3 BCU's and 2 SPR's can perma run 2 invl vields and a photon scattering amp. gives the same tank as a drake w/ 2 BCU's and 2 SPR's, but has a lot more punch.
or just go full passive tank w/ a gang assist module and fit whatever weapons you can fit after.
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Orar Ironfist
Capital Produce
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: levidec What kind of role do you give to your cerberus in a gang ?
nano that beetch out....or passive it to hell
Pirate for Life(no matter my sec)
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Miastir Teragban
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Miastir Teragban on 12/06/2008 23:29:27
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levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: levidec on 12/06/2008 23:29:35
Originally by: Fist1 Edited by: Fist1 on 12/06/2008 23:03:17 a NH with 3 BCU's and 2 SPR's can perma run 2 invl vields and a photon scattering amp. gives the same tank as a drake w/ 2 BCU's and 2 SPR's, but has a lot more punch.
or just go full passive tank w/ a gang assist module and fit whatever weapons you can fit after.
You are definitly right. I think for pve the nh must have 2 bcu and 3 spr and for pvp 3 bcu and 2 spr. in this case the nh has enough dps to be usefull in a gang (not against inty). But to fit a gang assist module, i suppose that it must be fitted with an active tank or r a rig with powergrid bonus (?)
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Miastir Teragban
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Orar Ironfist
Originally by: levidec What kind of role do you give to your cerberus in a gang ?
nano that beetch out....or passive it to hell
woulden't thought that the cerb would be good in nano or passif tank... must try it !! :) |
Lucipher03
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lucipher03 on 12/06/2008 23:43:50
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: levidec So, for those reasons, the drake must be a passive tank and then nighthawk an active tank.
BZZT, wrong. Unless you plan to go faction-fit plus MWD and heavy cap booster, there's no reason to go active with a Nighthawk. Overall, yeah, a NH has a slightly worse DPS tanked and EHP in similar passive fits, but it compensates by focusing most damage resistance on the thermal/kinetic side, so you can actually get away with a single hardener (or one plus invul) on most PvP fits, leaving one or two slots free for MWD and/or scram.
BZZT, wrong. You can't fit a MWD and a Heavy cap booster on a NH, you cant fit a heavy cap booster on a NH period.
Faction fit is the only way to go. Works damn well for me. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:34:00 -
[16]
Typo. Med, not heavy. Just enough to run the MWD. Still, even more reason NOT to active-fit.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:54:00 -
[17]
Two points:
First, using a NH in PVP is kinda silly. It's not a bad ship, but it is expensive, uninsurable, and screams "primary me!". Everyone likes command ship killmails. While it has more capabilities than a drake, it is not better enough to justify the price difference.
Second, just about all the fits I am seeing here for a PVP NH (or drake) are suggesting SPRs. That is a bad idea. When you are fitting a ship for PVP, the important aspect of your tank is how much raw damage can you absorb before you pop, not how much can you tank sustained. The NH has a great tank, but put it next to two armageddons and a harbinger and even with a very expensive set of faction hardeners, it's still going to die. Fights tend to be gang vs. gang, or gang vs. you if you try to solo. You just have to last long enough for you to either kill the enemy, run away, or survive until help arrives. Remove the SPRs and put in PDUs. The regen numbers drop, but the hitpoint buffer goes up. So does your cap, so you can ignore the pesky curses and other neut-boats that will destroy an SPR passive-tank NH by killing off the active hardeners. |
FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil Two points:
First, using a NH in PVP is kinda silly. It's not a bad ship, but it is expensive, uninsurable, and screams "primary me!". Everyone likes command ship killmails. While it has more capabilities than a drake, it is not better enough to justify the price difference.
Second, just about all the fits I am seeing here for a PVP NH (or drake) are suggesting SPRs. That is a bad idea. When you are fitting a ship for PVP, the important aspect of your tank is how much raw damage can you absorb before you pop, not how much can you tank sustained. The NH has a great tank, but put it next to two armageddons and a harbinger and even with a very expensive set of faction hardeners, it's still going to die. Fights tend to be gang vs. gang, or gang vs. you if you try to solo. You just have to last long enough for you to either kill the enemy, run away, or survive until help arrives. Remove the SPRs and put in PDUs. The regen numbers drop, but the hitpoint buffer goes up. So does your cap, so you can ignore the pesky curses and other neut-boats that will destroy an SPR passive-tank NH by killing off the active hardeners.
This is true - and use extender rigs, not shield recharge rigs. |
Skitza
Aluzion.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:58:00 -
[19]
Nighthawks aren't good pvp ships, this is a statement not up for discussion |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.13 17:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Skitza Nighthawks aren't good pvp ships, this is a statement not up for discussion
Poor slot layout, poor tank when fit for PVP, woefully inadequate PG, unable to fit gang mod without multiple fitting mods, useless precision bonus... yeah, no more discussion please...
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.13 18:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Miastir Teragban
Originally by: Orar Ironfist
Originally by: levidec What kind of role do you give to your cerberus in a gang ?
nano that beetch out....or passive it to hell
woulden't thought that the cerb would be good in nano or passif tank... must try it !! :)
Needs snakes to reach good nano speeds. |
levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Originally by: Impolite Andevil Two points:
First, using a NH in PVP is kinda silly. It's not a bad ship, but it is expensive, uninsurable, and screams "primary me!". Everyone likes command ship killmails. While it has more capabilities than a drake, it is not better enough to justify the price difference.
Second, just about all the fits I am seeing here for a PVP NH (or drake) are suggesting SPRs. That is a bad idea. When you are fitting a ship for PVP, the important aspect of your tank is how much raw damage can you absorb before you pop, not how much can you tank sustained. The NH has a great tank, but put it next to two armageddons and a harbinger and even with a very expensive set of faction hardeners, it's still going to die. Fights tend to be gang vs. gang, or gang vs. you if you try to solo. You just have to last long enough for you to either kill the enemy, run away, or survive until help arrives. Remove the SPRs and put in PDUs. The regen numbers drop, but the hitpoint buffer goes up. So does your cap, so you can ignore the pesky curses and other neut-boats that will destroy an SPR passive-tank NH by killing off the active hardeners.
This is true - and use extender rigs, not shield recharge rigs.
Clearly... better tank with extender rigs
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Miastir Teragban
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Skitza Nighthawks aren't good pvp ships, this is a statement not up for discussion
Poor slot layout, poor tank when fit for PVP, woefully inadequate PG, unable to fit gang mod without multiple fitting mods, useless precision bonus... yeah, no more discussion please...
So the nighthawk was only made for pve ? i have trid a haml mwd drake and i think it is better in pvp than a nighthawk.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:58:00 -
[24]
The only way a Drake is better than a Nighthawk is if you forget two simple rules:
1) If you are fitting SPRs, you are wrong.
2) If you don't have a gang mod, you are wrong.
Fit the correct setup on both ships, and the Nighthawk has more damage, more HP, and more passive regen. The only problem with the Nighthawk is it requires faction PDUs to make everything fit, give it the long-overdue grid boost and it's just fine as a PvP ship.
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.14 00:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Stefan F on 14/06/2008 01:02:51 Edited by: Stefan F on 14/06/2008 01:02:04 For gang purposes (no tackle needed) NH > drake For solo purposes (tackle needed) Drake > NH (lot cheaper, more mids, extra rig slot)
With point and mwd: Drake 85000 ehp - 590 dps NH 86000 ehp - 649 dps
Thats a whopping 10% dps increase for triple the price.
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levidec
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Posted - 2008.06.14 01:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin The only way a Drake is better than a Nighthawk is if you forget two simple rules:
1) If you are fitting SPRs, you are wrong.
2) If you don't have a gang mod, you are wrong.
Fit the correct setup on both ships, and the Nighthawk has more damage, more HP, and more passive regen. The only problem with the Nighthawk is it requires faction PDUs to make everything fit, give it the long-overdue grid boost and it's just fine as a PvP ship.
So, has it was said by Impolite Andevil, the nighthawk must have 3 power diagnostic system t2 and 2 core defence field extender to be able to fit a gang assist module with decent tank.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:54:00 -
[27]
If you are not afraid of being energy neutralized try fitting:
6 x Heavies + Energy Neut or Gang warfare link Large Shield Booster, Amp, 2-3 Hardeners and Warp Disruptor 3-4 PDS and 1-2 BCS
2 x CCC rigs
ALL FITS WITH T2 -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Gamesguy
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.14 08:05:00 -
[28]
Fleet fit drake
High: 7x HML II Nud: 10mn MWD II, 2x LSE II, 2x Invul II, Fleeting SB Lows: 3x BCS II, RCU
Extender rigs if you want, other wise an em resist rig wouldnt hurt.
Probably not the best for roaming gang though
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celada1
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark If you are not afraid of being energy neutralized try fitting:
6 x Heavies + Energy Neut or Gang warfare link Large Shield Booster, Amp, 2-3 Hardeners and Warp Disruptor 3-4 PDS and 1-2 BCS
2 x CCC rigs
ALL FITS WITH T2
Without a mwd you are pretty much dead meat.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.14 10:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: celada1
Originally by: Pinky Denmark If you are not afraid of being energy neutralized try fitting:
6 x Heavies + Energy Neut or Gang warfare link Large Shield Booster, Amp, 2-3 Hardeners and Warp Disruptor 3-4 PDS and 1-2 BCS
2 x CCC rigs
ALL FITS WITH T2
Without a mwd you are pretty much dead meat.
Which is the fundamental problem with a Nighthawk. You can do some lovely passive tanked, buffer tanked, or active tanked fits, just as long as you discard the 'mandatory PvP mod'.
And why it'd be ok, with just a little more grid. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
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