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FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:21:00 -
[121]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 13/06/2008 21:31:54
Originally by: RC Denton Precision missiles should have their explosion velocities upped to around 10k-15km/s.
Way too much, 5-7km/s should be quite sufficient
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:26:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Euriti Edited by: Euriti on 13/06/2008 21:15:11
Originally by: RC Denton
Originally by: Euriti All those people saying "missiles dont do ****!", it's not nanos that are the problem there, it's missiles being broken on that point.
This is something that I totally agree with. Precision missiles should have their explosion velocities upped to around 10k-15km/s. This with the missile velocity bonus's you can get from ships and rigs and skills would serve as a very nice nano counter as they would take full dmg from precision missiles which are exactly the type of weapon that should do full dmg to them.
Full damage would be a bit over the top, the damage should be brought in line with turrets hitting same target, aka if turrets get 30% cut off their dps because of the speed precision missiles should too.
I'm a fan of buffing, since nerfing just wastes peoples training and isk and ****es them off.
I agree that full damage would be too much. However I also agree that precision missiles need some help (especially the poor lamentably bad heavy precision missiles).
Basically a max killed precision missile needs to be able to hit a max fast nano ship of the same class for a 'reasonable' amount of damage.
It's tricky because it's not like the nano can reduce the damage by clever piloting (hey maybe we could make defenders not suck?) like they can with turret damage but the nano shouldn't be able to go "lolimmune" to missiles either like they can now.
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:29:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Euriti on 13/06/2008 21:29:34
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: RC Denton Precision missiles should have their explosion velocities upped to around 10k-15km/s.
Way too much, 5-7km/s should be quite sufficient
Fix your quote I did not say that :-p
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Zey Nadar
Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:15:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Ulstan
Ah yes. The reliable "If it's expensive it's ok for it to be overpowered" response.
Yes, the bane of balance.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:27:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
web would help if nanos came withing 40km of you... let alone 10km to have webs work!
you fail.
If they're 40km from you, why not warp out?
An Arazu can easily point you from that range. Stop trying to defend your "I Win" button with bull**** statements.
I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an Arazu. Or a Lachesis for that matter.
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Chinkies IV
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Posted - 2008.06.13 23:46:00 -
[126]
This thread is turning into overly much theorycraft and rubbish in general. The fact of the matter is that it's only natural for an organized fleet to wtfpwn the living daylights out of an unorganized blob. You need to stop whining.
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.14 03:18:00 -
[127]
Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise, also the best to have teamed up with a huginn.
Can't say that about blasters ...
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.06.14 05:05:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Jebidus Skari of course you can - get the correct ships like rapiers or at least fit webs!
I just trained for my rapier, I'm so sad if nano's are nerfed.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Podruski
Cosmic Fusion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 05:06:00 -
[129]
yeah.... invicta.. foam.... 2 fleets into tama today, 100% nanofleet of 20+. ^^^^^^^^^ ____________________________________________
Pirating sucks. |
Spineker
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Posted - 2008.06.14 06:40:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Spineker on 14/06/2008 06:43:37
Good job FC James D.
nano what Nano fleet?? WTFPWNED
Run girlymen run!
Spineker Corporation: State Protectorate Alliance: None Kills: 8 Real kills: 8 Losses: 0 Damage done (ISK): 339M Damage received (ISK): 0M
Please keep flying your pew pew ships.
Look at me Mom I am fast... I am badass... I am dead
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Squatdog
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:20:00 -
[131]
Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious. |
Spineker
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:24:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Squatdog Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious.
Originally by: Squatdog Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious.
They are in ships that can only run. I smell the color yellow... laughing in my Eagle with 390 wrecking shot with 250mm II.
But missile can't hit the yellow streak very well at all it is insane. The best thing nano's do is run. Period
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Virasza
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Posted - 2008.06.14 07:41:00 -
[133]
Hi,
i've been playing this game for a while now (almost 5 years i think) and i've got enough pvp experience.
Lived most my eve life in 0.0 and usually don't whine about the topic of the month (nos, gankageddon, nano's, heck, even the first blob forming) I have killed nano'd ships, and i have been killed by them also.
The point is, something really just doesn't seem right when ships go that fast. The small ships are supposed to be the fast ones. But interceptors get passed by cruisers.
I can understand the complaining, but every time something is changed (like nos, ganks, etc..) there's always the next thing that pops up. And the complaining starts again.
The other side of the coin is that there are a LOT of nano gangs flying around. And if there is such a high percentage flying 1 type, the balance is off, there's no denying. And the counters to nano? What if i don't want to learn for the specialised ships. What if im a dedicated command ship pilot? (now this is a rethorical question, i've got 60 mil sp's and own a nano ship of my own, a ishtar. and with 14m sp's in drones it's a killer)
i can already guess that somebody's going to make a remark about the tank of a command ship and the low damage output of a nano ship.
In the end, isn't it a more fun game if there are all sorts of different setups beeing used. You never know what you might run in to, and each time you set up your ship, you've got a debate about what to use those midslots for.
atm, it's mwd, web, scr, and then the rest.
oh, and a lot of ppl seem to have it easy by saying that players should use expensive ships (relatively) or setups. There ARE new players out there, who are still saving up for their first cruiser. Don't forget about them, you where one once aswell.
Look, now i've gone off ranting for so long, i kinda forgot my point.
Anyway, hope to see you guys out there, in whatever setup you want to fly
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Lee Thrace
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.14 08:07:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Lee Thrace on 14/06/2008 08:07:29 Virasza,
you have a point there...you're the 1st i see in this thread that can convince me that nano may be overpowered or could use a nerf. a lot of people just seem frustrated because they know of no way to tackle one, or are incapable of doing so. which is really not the case, but i think that has been said enough in this thread allready.
I myself am a nano*****, i nano alot of my ships and it works fine for me. i've died sometimes and most of the time i live. which has more to do with the fact that i dont engage in a situation of which i cant see where it will lead, then just being the fasted ship out there and thus getting away.
i'd hate to see a future where every fight would be a nano fight, really. that being said i do not think that will happen! As there are just so many ways to counter nanoships with normal (slow moving) ships, i dont see this becoming a problem. kick me if f'm wrong...
one tip: this is a game guys, try to enjoy it. all this stress is no good for any of us
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 10:11:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Virasza The other side of the coin is that there are a LOT of nano gangs flying around. And if there is such a high percentage flying 1 type, the balance is off, there's no denying.
This is true but you do really see alot of RR gangs too and if nanos were to be nerfed we'd just have BS gangs, and that would be it, and then the balance is really off.
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Nexus Kinnon
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.06.14 10:40:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Squatdog Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious.
yes, but if they go at their non-MWDing speed, around 500m/s.... then missiles can hit them. Which forces the nano ship to activate its MWD.
Try reading the post you idiot.
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:04:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Euriti on 14/06/2008 11:03:59
Originally by: Squatdog Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious.
It's like you're closing your eyes when people come with arguments against your hopeless and stupid crusade.
The only nanoboats that go over 4600 are the ones with snake implants or vagabonds or the pimped ones. Pimp'd is win to kill, vagabond HAS to stop mwd.
Use the inside of your skull before posting again, please.
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Demitria Fernir
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:49:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Euriti
The only nanoboats that go over 4600 are the ones with snake implants or vagabonds or the pimped ones. Pimp'd is win to kill, vagabond HAS to stop mwd.
Use the inside of your skull before posting again, please.
1. most nanoboats can easily do over 5,5km / s thanks to rigs
2. vaga orbiting 22km with t2 point can easily hit you with AC, and in case of rapier, can always try to mwd away (all about skill in that)
3. snake implant on a well-fitted nanoship like vaga or mach can get it to do OVER 10km/s, wich means DAMN AWESOME.
and yes, more money on it means you get an overpowered ship. it doesn't mean however that you can easily kill anything on a normal situation, and you have to be cautious when huggins/rapiers/hyenas are even in the system.
yep, so much overpowered... 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 12:58:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir
Originally by: Euriti
The only nanoboats that go over 4600 are the ones with snake implants or vagabonds or the pimped ones. Pimp'd is win to kill, vagabond HAS to stop mwd.
Use the inside of your skull before posting again, please.
1. most nanoboats can easily do over 5,5km / s thanks to rigs
2. vaga orbiting 22km with t2 point can easily hit you with AC, and in case of rapier, can always try to mwd away (all about skill in that)
3. snake implant on a well-fitted nanoship like vaga or mach can get it to do OVER 10km/s, wich means DAMN AWESOME.
and yes, more money on it means you get an overpowered ship. it doesn't mean however that you can easily kill anything on a normal situation, and you have to be cautious when huggins/rapiers/hyenas are even in the system.
yep, so much overpowered...
******* bull****, post with your main, if you are, don't even post on balance issues again.
Ishtar requires snakes to go over 5km/s. Zealot needs snakes for it, Rapier needs snakes for it, Huginn needs snakes for it, Sacriledge needs snakes for it, Cerberus needs HG snakes and some pimp **** for it. Don't post again please.
A vagabond will NEVER hit you when he's mwd'ing, he can hit you and you can hit him.
Vagabond also needs full LG snakes, 5% rogues, Zor's implant, 3 ODs and 2 polycarbs to hit 10,2, and it will never orbit at that speed at any reasonable range.
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Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.14 13:02:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Squatdog Caldari are pretty good for dettering nanoships actually. Missile fire forces them to constantly MWD else face rapid demise
LMFAO!!!
Missiles CAN'T HIT nanoboats if they go over 4,600ms!
Some of the denial on this thread is hilarious.
firstly only the more expensive nanoboats go that or faster.
secondly you try permarunning your mwd in a nanoboat.
just try even making a reasonable turn.
missiles. oh yeah :)
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Deja Thoris
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 14:45:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Podruski yeah.... invicta.. foam.... 2 fleets into tama today, 100% nanofleet of 20+. ^^^^^^^^^
I'm shocked and appalled that your OSPREY couldn't take us out.
Your tears are delicious by the way and you make your corp look like a bunch of noobs with your crying. If the situations were reversed I'd kill us all or force us off with just 5 ships of the right type mixed in amongst your fleet.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:20:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Xaen No, it was because they allowed you to escape from any fight you didn't want to commit to without any drawbacks whatsoever. Nanos are expensive as hell and you completely give up tanking, and if you go really fast you have tracking issues of your own.
Ah yes. The reliable "If it's expensive it's ok for it to be overpowered" response.
The price isn't a justification, just another drawback.
Originally by: Ulstan Also, if you fit all your slots with WCS, you gave up all your tank. So don't pretend stacking WCS didn't have any drawbacks. Nano'ing, however, gives you an *excellent* tank as long as you can maintain your speed.
Speed tanking isn't really tanking because if you bump into an asteroid or get webbed your only measure of defense evaporates. Bumping into asteroids won't stop your shield booster or armor repper. Getting hit with a single module from another player won't turn off your shield booster or repper, or passive tank instantly. So don't try and say speed tanking is tanking.
Let's also not forget that you cannot rescoop drones at nano speeds, so if your primary DPS is drones, then you need to be prepared to sacrifice them every time you launch them. For Ogre IIs, that's basically 5M for each flight. And in the case of the Ishtar, if it happens twice in one fight, you become nothing more than a 250M interceptor that doesn't go very fast. These are the reasons I don't fly an ishtar.
And think about the results of the change you're proposing, what role do HACs have without speed? They don't tank as well or DPS as well as tier 2 battlecruisers, let alone command ships. They don't have any special abilities. They'd be as useful as assault frigates. That is to say, not useful. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:26:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir 1. most nanoboats can easily do over 5,5km / s thanks to rigs
Complete bull****. Seriously. Show me an EFT setup for each nano you're talking about that goes over 5.5km/s. Proof or stfu.
Originally by: Demitria Fernir 2. vaga orbiting 22km with t2 point can easily hit you with AC, and in case of rapier, can always try to mwd away (all about skill in that)
Vaga is supposed to be fast. This isn't changing.
Originally by: Demitria Fernir 3. snake implant on a well-fitted nanoship like vaga or mach can get it to do OVER 10km/s, wich means DAMN AWESOME.
Like a vaga? what other ship can do this? Do you realize a vagabond can't hit you going that fast? With missiles & drones, yes, but not guns.
Originally by: Demitria Fernir yep, so much overpowered...
There are far too many generalizatoins, and anecdotes in your post to reach this conclusion from the premises stated. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Miss Artica
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:42:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Podruski End nanos, now. Enuf ****ing around. Ohh, were going to make them expensive.. ohhh were going to increase mass. Remove Polycarbons from the game entirely and put a stacking penalty on overdrives.
Theres a reason everyone flies them... because you cannot kill them. This has been an issue for over a year I think? and what have you done about it? Introduced new ships.... slow ones, like interdictors... Nerfed nos too, remember?
Oh... and undo the nos nerf ^^^ watch how much better pvp gets.
Shut up.
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HakanSherif
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:47:00 -
[145]
My vaga goes over 40k cry more
Est Sularus oth Mithas |
Chinkies IV
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:58:00 -
[146]
Cry more noobs.
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Miss Stella
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Posted - 2008.06.15 20:26:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Miss Stella on 15/06/2008 20:26:55 Why does invicta think they are good? you have 20+ nano ships and you talk ****. I dont know if you dont get it, but it makes you look like the biggest morons ever. YOU GUYS CRY SO MUCH BECAUSE I NANO MY SHIP! thats like saying.... STOP COMPLAINING, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE SHOULD BE LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA! go back to jita nubs... nano isnt pvp.
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Ulic Vos
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 21:32:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Miss Stella Edited by: Miss Stella on 15/06/2008 20:26:55 Why does invicta think they are good? you have 20+ nano ships and you talk ****. I dont know if you dont get it, but it makes you look like the biggest morons ever. YOU GUYS CRY SO MUCH BECAUSE I NANO MY SHIP! thats like saying.... STOP COMPLAINING, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE SHOULD BE LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA! go back to jita nubs... nano isnt pvp.
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Heisenburg Principle
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Posted - 2008.06.15 21:40:00 -
[149]
Target is invulnerable... target is invulnerable... Locking 2s...1s... locked and activate web and oh **** he's 20km out side my range cos he's going stupidly fast.
Sound familiar? thats why its broke.
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Myheart Aflame
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Posted - 2008.06.15 21:59:00 -
[150]
I was flying my nano Kestrel around tonight, no serioulsy I was. It didn't die either.
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