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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
gfldex
376
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Posted - 2012.03.15 01:37:00 -
[151] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote:I would say instead of newbie corps, a system that gives you a list of registered player corps relevant to your career path and forces you to join one is a nice idea. It dumps you in the game with people who play how you want to and who actually want to help you because they benefit from it as well.
You mean the match making system that is in the game for years but is not mentioned in the tutorial? Don't worry, as honesty is not enforced, it doesn't work anyway. The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
44
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Posted - 2012.03.15 02:04:00 -
[152] - Quote
Perhaps if CCP gave tech I cruisers and frigs a little love, maybe new players wouldn't feel so useless the first 5 months of the game. (Unless they fly minmatar, in which case they're at least semi useful.) |
Roh Voleto
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
107
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Posted - 2012.03.15 02:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
Kolya Medz wrote:(Unless they fly minmatar, in which case they're at least semi useful.)
My hair is a bird It takes three hours to fly a Rifter. Your argument is invalid. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
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Posted - 2012.03.15 02:51:00 -
[154] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Cearain wrote:I never said you needed more than one gang booster per gang. What are you talking about? This is what you said: Cearain wrote: Perhaps they see that pvp has more to do with having expensive booster alts that you dual box off grid rather than piloting skill.
I'm sure not many new players like the idea that they have to create alt dual box alts.
What you quoted from me does not say you need to have more than one booster per gang. Did you think it does?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
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Posted - 2012.03.15 02:54:00 -
[155] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: So yes, you most assuredly did say that new players MUST train their own gang boosters. Which is ******* bullshit.
Is this topic upsetting you? If they want to be competitive at small gang pvp they will need a booster alt in the gang. Of course if they just want to join big blobs of maelstroms and get lead around like a herd of cattle they donGÇÖt need to. But if they want to do allot of small gang pvp then they will need to train them or be with someone else who has.
Liang Nuren wrote:Cearain wrote: Would you agree these off grid boosters give a large combat advantage? I havenGÇÖt heard your answer to this question. ... Right we can just fight at a large disadvantage.
Gang boosters give meaningful bonuses when used appropriately, but most of the time their bonuses just aren't very useful. The most useful bonuses are trivially the skirmish links, followed by either armor or shield - though you'll normally run with no more than one or the other. Info links are very specialized. It is entirely possible to fight without disadvantage regardless of whether you have gang bonuses. I can, and frequently do.
This is changing. You and I may just have to agree to disagree on this. More and more I am finding that especially as a solo or small gang pilot these booster alts are making the difference in fights.
Liang Nuren wrote:Cearain wrote: IGÇÖm not sure what you mean. But I am fairly sure we will continue to see that a higher and higher percent of gangs or GÇ£soloGÇ¥ pilots will use booster alts. Do you disagree?
No, the population density of booster alts is going to go down because there's only one or two desired per fleet. This means that the noob that you're telling me must train his very own dedicated booster alt isn't going to have a whole hell of a lot of use for it.
I guess you are assuming the average size of gangs will increase. This may be true.
But the question is are the people you will be fighting against going to be more or less likely to have these advantages as time goes on. I think its pretty clear it will be more likely they will have them. If you are solo you will be fighting at a big disadvantage. If you are in a gang then you or someone in your gang will need them or you will be at a large disadvantage.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1068
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Posted - 2012.03.15 02:54:00 -
[156] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Cearain wrote:I never said you needed more than one gang booster per gang. What are you talking about? This is what you said: Cearain wrote: Perhaps they see that pvp has more to do with having expensive booster alts that you dual box off grid rather than piloting skill.
I'm sure not many new players like the idea that they have to create alt dual box alts.
What you quoted from me does not say you need to have more than one booster per gang. Did you think it does?
The underlined section says that every new player must train their own personal gang booster. This is bullshit.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1068
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Posted - 2012.03.15 03:00:00 -
[157] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Is this topic upsetting you?
No, I talk like that all the time. Yes, really.
Quote: If they want to be competitive at small gang pvp they will need a booster alt in the gang. Of course if they just want to join big blobs of maelstroms and get lead around like a herd of cattle they donGÇÖt need to. But if they want to do allot of small gang pvp then they will need to train them or be with someone else who has.
You mean like they might want to be with someone who's trained up DPS or tackle or some other specialization that helps out small gangs? Amazing.
Quote: This is changing. You and I may just have to agree to disagree on this. More and more I am finding that especially as a solo or small gang pilot these booster alts are making the difference in fights.
How much do you think a gang boosting ship helps a Megapulse Oracle or an Arty Tornado 80km off the fight? It really doesn't. No, the gang boosts help the people deep in the fray - like the brawlers and tacklers. If you don't want to run with gang bonuses, there are ways to do so and be successful.
Quote:I guess you are assuming the average size of gangs will increase. This may be true.
But the question is are the people you will be fighting against going to be more or less likely to have these advantages as time goes on. I think its pretty clear it will be more likely they will have them. If you are solo you will be fighting at a big disadvantage. If you are in a gang then you or someone in your gang will need them or you will be at a large disadvantage.
Three things: - These days people unironically claim that 50 man gangs is "small gang PVP". In 2008, those were "alliance fleet ops" for even major alliances like Goonswarm. Gang sizes are going up. - Holy ****, someone that's solo is at a disadvantage to a small gang in a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online Game. Say it ain't so. - There's no reason to believe that every person has to train up gang boosts - whether on their main or on an alt. Especially if gang boosts continue to grow in popularity to the point that every gang has them. Again, noobs catch up through specialization - amazing.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Ai Shun
364
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Posted - 2012.03.15 03:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Perhaps they see that pvp has more to do with having expensive booster alts that you dual box off grid rather than piloting skill.
I'm sure not many new players like the idea that they have to create alt dual box alts. It turns a game into a chore.
But don't take my word for it ask new players what they think about continuing in a game where that is required.
I'll pull it back to the beginning, because my reading of your posts seems to agree with the point Liang is making and I don't think you're seeing it Cearain.
You are making the point that all new players will require a booster alt. Your last sentence in that initial paragraph was like me asking you:
"Would you like to eat this even though it tastes like poop?"
I'd hope you would say no, unless of course you like eating poop. So no is the response you would get from new players as well when you put an impossible barrier in front of them, especially if that barrier is not required. You have primed the question to get the response you want.
You later changed your tune to show this:
Cearain wrote:If they want to be competitive at small gang pvp they will need a booster alt in the gang.
Which seems a bit better. This clear communication thing is hard, huh? |
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2012.03.15 03:45:00 -
[159] - Quote
Bring the UI into the second decade of the 21st century. That would be an excellent start. Time to-áCOMPLETELY REDESIGN THE U.I. FROM SCRATCH: - End the click fest & Multiple Window fest - Streamline and Simplify it-á - Improve scalability-á |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
173
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Posted - 2012.03.15 04:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
1. its more expensive and less accessible than other mmos 2. it takes a year to be able to do anything rewarding or entertaining 3. the pve is ******* terrible 4. the pvp is (now) becoming exclusive in far too many ways (isk down, stakes raised everywhere) 5. 0.0 is empty due to risk free high sec isk faucets that are completely exclusive (see 1, 2, 3) so you're kinda stuck with low sec or alpha blobs in gewns. neither of which is welcoming to new players. 6. eve is fundamentally boring as **** unless you do nothing but pvp relentlessly with a 70m sp character and have friends with tech moons to finance it for you. and this is fast becoming a case of the same 5k or so dudes fighting each other week in and week out. 7. you need multiple accounts to do anything fun or lucrative. 8. the economy is fantastically broken and almost completely at the mercy of third world botters and hoardes of non-english speaking rmters. 9. there is literally nothing to do for 6 months in this game except go afk or grind pve. the much vaunted romantic notions of yore no longer apply; you are not useful in a rifter. those days are long, long gone. 10. there is no incentive financially or in terms of roi to training a new character from scratch over just say, dropping $200 on one + lots more ad nauseum |
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Ender Karazaki
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.03.15 08:33:00 -
[161] - Quote
Holy One wrote:1. its more expensive and less accessible than other mmos
2. it takes a year to be able to do anything rewarding or entertaining
3. the pve is ******* terrible
4. the pvp is (now) becoming exclusive in far too many ways (isk down, stakes raised everywhere). there are only half a dozen ships/fits worth flying if you actually want to win. most of them are minmatar.
5. 0.0 is empty due to risk free high sec isk faucets that are completely exclusive (see 1, 2, 3) so you're kinda stuck with low sec or alpha blobs in gewns. neither of which is welcoming to new players or attractive to established ones. in fact **** it, I'll go balls deep here and say sov 0.0 is ******* horrible and futile; the isk is ****, the ctas are ****, the fleet doctines are ****, the lag is **** and the inhability for any smaller alliance to resist the larger ones because the game is fundamentally unfair (boo hoo) is in the eyes of many newcomers err, pretty ****.
so you whittle away at your player base until the only guys left are professional eve players, bitter vets in 'elite' alliances and dumb sheeple who havent yet realized they're bored (but do within a few months and move on). the high sec dwelling hoardes of aspies and high functioning sociopaths who dont want to 'play with anyone else anyway' pay your wages. so you give them stuff to do. which is not appealing to the other 9bn folks on the planet sadly. but keeps ccp in business.
6. eve is fundamentally boring as **** unless you do nothing but pvp relentlessly with a 70m sp character and have friends with tech moons to finance it for you. and this is fast becoming a case of the same 5k or so dudes fighting each other week in and week out. you cant do that anyway because nobody trusts or wants newbies around. new players (of the sort ccp advertising brings in) are generally incompatible with the mindset and intellectual challenge posed to them and just a burden that soak up all your time and enthusiasm then quit after 2-6 months.
7. you need multiple accounts to do anything fun or lucrative. so yeah, the constipation caused by having a game which demands all your time and $$$ and enthusiasm (and then some) to get any good at, or to grind around even just the most basic of **** like moving around or moving assets from one place to another, coupled with the total lack of demand for this kind of gameplay among consumers nowdays, err, puts people off. normal people that is.
ccp doesnt seem to have realized that people dont want to spend 8 hrs playing eve every day in the pursuit of 3 minutes of actual fun (which is always at the expense of weaker, dumber, poorer and less experienced players who will soon quit). and even if they do, most dont have that luxury and rapidly realize they dont have the isk (or the rl money or time to make the isk) to keep it up. and quit. or go find other games that indulge their laziness and desire to feel special and powerful asap. of which there are many and all of which have lots more people to 'be friends' with. for less cost.
so your entire player base are basically either high paid dudes who sperge in safe space or unemployed guys with above average IQ's who want to grief idealists and 'retards' out of the game. since most of those tend to be phsycially repellant young men of college age or sad middle aged losers on the dole, the target audience is pretty limited. since eve is not 'aspirational' or 'self esteem compensating' enough for the wow crowd, you're once again looking at finding new and inventive ways of retaining the attention of and/or gratifying weirdos.
8. the economy is fantastically broken and almost completely at the mercy of third world botters and hoardes of non-english speaking rmters for whom eve is not entertainment but a ******* career move.
9. there is literally nothing to do for the first 6 months in this game except go afk or grind pve. the much vaunted romantic notions of yore no longer apply; you are not useful in a rifter. those days are long, long gone.
dichotomy between pve and pvp skills training and ignorance among new players of the distinction between the two just makes people quit when they get bored of missions and can't pvp because they a) have literally no ******* clue how and even if they do, they can't afford to lose thei rocket fit cynabal more than once or twice before they're broke (not that they will risk it anyway, being nerdy cowards) and b) their skills they spent months patiently working on are ******* useless for the task.
10. there is no incentive financially or in terms of roi to training a new character from scratch over just say, dropping $200 on one + lots more ad nauseum
tl;dr eve only appeals to 'pro' mmo players who are sadists or masochists or mentally handicapped in some way. its expensive, time consuming and unrewarding except at the highest levels; which are inaccessible to people who are not able to spend 5+ hrs a day playing eve ie. folks who can stump up the mandatory $2-400 to get a character and assets that can realize that ambition quickly enough to maintain their interest.
which isnt usually very enduring because: the core game is **** and the pvp is fast becoming **** due to incursion based inflation and propagation of faction hulls and other ******** **** that is far too common and far too good compared to everything else on offer.
I suppose that rant was cheaper than two hours of therapy. |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
173
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 10:09:00 -
[162] - Quote
Ender Karazaki wrote:[quote=Holy One] I suppose that rant was cheaper than two hours of therapy.
Not sure I can hear you over the sound of 10.2m subscribers hazin' me. Oh, wait .. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
289
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 10:37:00 -
[163] - Quote
Holy One wrote:1. I'm unemployed and can't understand long sentences with difficult words, so I never even try
2. I believed the guys in NPC corps and grinded missions instead of doing something fun
3. I read mission walkthroughs so I couldn't fail them and then grinded the same missions over and over and over and over and over again
4. I'm also spacepoor and can't work out my own fits and believe everything they say on Battleclinic Ships & Modules
5. I've never heard of wormholes either
6. I'm an unimaginative person and can't set my own goals
7. I'm afraid of challenges and prefer instant gratification, even though I get quickly bored with that too
8. I don't understand much about economy, but I'm comfortable with making grand claims about it
9. Nobody held my hand when I was a noob, which is unfair because I'm a bit simple and can't figure out things on my own
10. I don't value things I create myself, and hate :effort: because someone else has more shineys
FYP
You want to play this http://toyreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/brio-first-train.jpg
And complain because there actually is a game that caters to people who have the time, dedication and resources to indulge themselves on something this http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1140/569960420_080f54800f.jpg
Both are ultimately pointless, but serve their intended audiences. If you can't handle EVE, find something suitable for your capacity.
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Irya Boone
Escadron leader
0
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Posted - 2012.03.15 10:57:00 -
[164] - Quote
The problem In eve that make news players left , is some little things put together
1-¦ When you see the trailers you say Oh ma gad i gonna control a Ship and pew pew BUT no you just Right click everywhere For evrything when you'are used to control your toon with the mouse ou the keyboard ( zqds) it's disturbing.
2-¦ When you play eve and look your screen You are terribly ALONE in most mmo when you play you can see other avatars near you etc etc here a line in fleet Window ...
3-¦ It take Too F.... much time To do something cool and people who say the contrary are liars .
4-¦ Pve is hummmm how to say that ... Boring as hell it would be cool To make some Boss ( i mean serious ones ) in Missions pocket Like Big BIG BIG ship to destroy. etc etc Some LIving Forms ( like In Star wars the clone wars i saw once Big Whales eating gas in nebulae to kill etc etc
5-¦ Except in wormhole If you are in a litlle corp you'are nothing .
6-¦ The Incoherence in Traninig skills: me I like Big Ships I want to make Pvp With a BS .. it take SO ******* much time To be useful and in the other hand If you like and want to pvp in a frigate ... 2 month and It's Ok ...
If CCp want new players stay make options like controlling the ship with the keyboard or else , make the items ( asteroids, pirates ships , structures Bigger |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
289
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 11:05:00 -
[165] - Quote
Thank you, no further questions.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
82
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Posted - 2012.03.15 11:43:00 -
[166] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Where exactly are these numbers coming from. Did someone see the player base down after the last bot ban and jump to conclusions or something
Eve has always been niche, any attempt to dumb it down will just drive away the core who have a big investment in the game already and replace them with low attention span thrill seekers who will desub in a couple of months anyway
Sure the tutorial system needs improving and some real content for new players that isn't missions (the worst, most pointless thing in eve) would be nice but if you compare it to what has gone before eve is constantly improving in that regard. I don't think there was a tutorial at all when i started never mind the flood of implants, skills, ships, isk, standings, training speed bonus and attribute swaps new players get now
What ccp should really do is implement the npc "school" corps properly and run them with volunteers. That might step on certain "train noobs in our terrible image" player organisations though. Just thinking aloud after reading your post regarding your last idea. Heres the gist of it. Expand the ISD for each faction in the Eve-uni/RvB style of play. Merge all three starter NPC corps into one. As with the character creation changes it really doesnt matter WHERE you start now stat wise its only a cosmetic choice anyway. Then give each new starter corp its own "alliance" chat tab in the channels list but label it "faction" instead. Have this be run by RPing ISD volunteers to give a combined newbie alliance and corp feeling within the starting home as well as an RP value with live events created by CCP and the ISD volunteers for each faction for the RP element. Also create a "faction RvB" style corp where you can leave the starter corp to join but STILL go back to the original starter corp if you dont like it run in the RvB style. Cheap ships lots of fights in only a few systems. This would essentially become a feeder for the "faction warfare" NPC corp which also will have a chat tab as well. But then not have that the main FW chat tab. As itll reduce the likelihood of spies, sure theres already many but still. Same with the RvB ones.
On the boards set up private forums or forum sections for each new racial mega alliance. As well as subforums for each subset and corp.
So in short combine the newb experience into the structures already established with players as well as what the playerbase has given us in systems that work, RvB and Eve-Uni, and integrate that with FW as well. Trying to create basically a full "faction" feel. Making each race now its own little entity and giving it more life and power for people to stick to a race or within faction space. Hopefully this will, given the help through the ISD members as well as letting them try different ares of Eve and get used to the structures in a more loosely knit alliance that the real player corps and alliances use while not limiting them to joining and never going back but allowing them to maintain the connections they build up in the first few weeks or months.
By creating player wide live events or even the standard alliance OP style play where anyone in the faction can join in or do it creates a sense of purpose and fun to it. Though the organization can be loose and the "ops" themselves can consist of just a few things it shows newbies how to do things, form fleets, gangs, operate together allowing them the ability to "drop" in on these events. Maybe low sec mining ops, but then coincide them with an RvB or FW event IN that system as well. Basically allowing inadvertent "cover" or "escort" for the miners while giving some PvP tastes and styling in low sec space in case of "pirate" or player interaction. So if a hostile entity shows up to attack the miners the faction RvB or FW FCs can change tactics and attack it instead. Again giving that unity of Alliance approach while allowing for branching out into the "dangerous" areas as a group early on. Scavenger hunts, player created races, 1v1 or 2v2 mini tourneys either within FW, RvB or open to anyone like we have the alliance tourney. Then links or adverts or youtubes of the big Alliance Tournament to show where this kind of play can lead. Basically make the live events teasers to the real activities. Even small scale sanshas incursions that can only be repulsed by members of each faction. That arent valuable in the isk sense to older players but give players under 3 months the ability to go in groups and get things done under volunteer leadership. As frankly if your under 3 months though you can be in a BS by then you shouldnt be in anything more than frigates or cruisers so the isk needs are lower but again teasers.
By using such a system the idea of factions and faction space can really be implemented. Ironically the SAME idea can also be used for NPC null space, just with the pirate factions by creating a player run pirate corp in each space with the same ideas. Again staffed by volunteers but on a much smaller scale and less rewards and hand holding in keeping with the the brutal nature of null but that gives a null experience for the more adventurous. Again for the null NPC corp thered have to be some hard line limits for it to remove massive abuse of it by null sec bots and such. Perhaps SP or age limits to that one. IE once your here and you step out of the kiddie pool you know how to swim go find your own way now.
Anyway just rough ideas. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:23:00 -
[167] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:
The high barrier to running Incursions and runaway inflation due to riskless "PVE" in high-sec would drive any new player away from the game. Think about it, running missions or frigate mining/hauling for paltry ISK sucks when the Incursion fleet you can't join is devaluing ISK faster than you can earn it. What possible incentive does a new player who doesn't hook up with a decent player corporation really have for staying subbed to Eve? Oh snap!
You're pretty fail TBH. You can incursion in a logi, which is cheap and quick to get into. You can get in in a t3 cruiser. you can get in in multiple battleships. Wormholes still make generate more income than Incursions, they have been "devaluing isk" since 2009. It is quicker to get into a BS than it used to be if you do want to missions, and you can still easily purchase a plex every month with minimal time investment if you choose to mission. While you are complaining about the inflation of costs, you are not complaining about the inflation of income that mission salvagers are seeing right now. That is very typical in the current inflation debacle. everything you buy costs more? well yeah, everything you sell costs more too. fancy that.
Fail? I doubt it. Do you really want a quick noob logi in an incursion fleet with you? Sure SOME might work out but to have inexperienced logis, the backbone of keeping an entire fleet alive, in my fleet means I couldnt run with them and Ive dropped quite a few fleets cuz of bad logis. Thats the worst thing a noob should be told to get into. Id sooner have sub par DPS and good solid logis than the reverse.
Inflation for salvaging? Ive watched prices fall steadily since the introduction of the noctis so I cant see your sound logic behind that statement. Tbh as someone that still cleans up missions with a second account Id love to see the pre-Noctis highs for salvage values. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
118
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:42:00 -
[168] - Quote
Biggest problem is to link old and new player to do something together, EVE is about team play.
Most of new players do not want answers they want to figure things out itself.
EVE is complex game and people do not want to play complex games, because they want to have fun without using months to learn something that is just a game.
After month of two new players figure out that they will never easily learn how to play it. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
Archdaimon wrote:For many new players the biggest cause so far is griefing wardecs in High-sec and ganking on miners. (New players rarely transport anything of value hence logistic ganking is less of a problem).
I'm not saying it should be different and I have done it myself, but it is really tough for a new player wanting to play with your friends facing more experienced players than yourself who war dec's corporations in high sec for money or tears.
People constantly claim more and easier pew pew in high sec. I get the point why, but honestly it will only cause more problems with people who are either learning the game or who have less interest in pew pew.
On the other hand rewards should ofcourse follow and an overall empire tax of 5-10% on missions, trade and mining could be a solution. On the other hand make it harder to wardec corps and alliances non-consensual.
The biggest cause for new players to quit is the fact that even after the improved newbie-tutorial-missions-experience, they still feel they get dunked into the middle of the ocean, barely knowing how to swim. Best solution would be to join a well-established corp with a good newbie program, but there are just too many ****** corps, polluting the waters. Badly-run corps that fall to shambles at the first sign of trouble, giving newbies for a disheartening experience.
Personally I think the best time to learn about the harshness and cut-throat pvp nature of this game (and I don't mean just the pew-pew) is when making mistakes is still cheap. And as long as they're in a good corp, newbies will bounce right back.
The new recruitment possibilities are certainly a step in the good direction. CCP should expand on that.
Also with the permitted dec shield exploit, running empire wars is quite pointless right now. And in my opinion non-consensual warfare is vital for the health of empire space. Every carebear should have a few of these under their belt, whether they enjoyed it or not, because it makes them better players. [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif[/img]
This needs fixin' |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:53:00 -
[170] - Quote
The only reason it's a slow hemorrhage of players is that players are joining slowly. Ordinarily players leave Eve in droves as soon as they see what a screwed up game it is for a new player.
New players are humiliated in local, taken advantage of by older players, fare at least a year of playing before they are anywhere close to having competitive skills, listen to 12-18 year old boys talk unmitigated trash, and on and on. The killer is usually when they learn what suicide banking is, how stupid and useless it is, and how it epitomizes the whole game mindset.
Then they come home for a bit of relaxation at one of the activities that should be fun and low risk, like mining or missioning, and some jerk halfway across the works starts to **** with them. You wonder why people don't play this game? They are looking for relief from real life, not the constant interaction with assholes that comprises 95 percent of eve.
New players quit Eve because there's almost nothing left here but jerks. |
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Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.03.15 13:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
My suggestion for this problem is a Mentor Program.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=923774#post923774
I am very aware of the excellent work done by EVE-Uni, RvB and a lot of other corporations and alliances. I think we need a more structured aid to help Newbies stay. Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
369
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:00:00 -
[172] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: New players quit Eve because there's almost nothing left here but jerks.
I'm just going to stay quiet after 2nd-ing this. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Doddy wrote:Where exactly are these numbers coming from. Did someone see the player base down after the last bot ban and jump to conclusions or something
Eve has always been niche, any attempt to dumb it down will just drive away the core who have a big investment in the game already and replace them with low attention span thrill seekers who will desub in a couple of months anyway
Sure the tutorial system needs improving and some real content for new players that isn't missions (the worst, most pointless thing in eve) would be nice but if you compare it to what has gone before eve is constantly improving in that regard. I don't think there was a tutorial at all when i started never mind the flood of implants, skills, ships, isk, standings, training speed bonus and attribute swaps new players get now
What ccp should really do is implement the npc "school" corps properly and run them with volunteers. That might step on certain "train noobs in our terrible image" player organisations though. Just thinking aloud after reading your post regarding your last idea. Heres the gist of it. Expand the ISD for each faction in the Eve-uni/RvB style of play. Merge all three starter NPC corps into one. As with the character creation changes it really doesnt matter WHERE you start now stat wise its only a cosmetic choice anyway. Then give each new starter corp its own "alliance" chat tab in the channels list but label it "faction" instead. Have this be run by RPing ISD volunteers to give a combined newbie alliance and corp feeling within the starting home as well as an RP value with live events created by CCP and the ISD volunteers for each faction for the RP element. Also create a "faction RvB" style corp where you can leave the starter corp to join but STILL go back to the original starter corp if you dont like it run in the RvB style. Cheap ships lots of fights in only a few systems. This would essentially become a feeder for the "faction warfare" NPC corp which also will have a chat tab as well. But then not have that the main FW chat tab. As itll reduce the likelihood of spies, sure theres already many but still. Same with the RvB ones.
"ISD-run 'NPC' newbie corps"
I really like this idea a lot. Keep the newbies from wandering off and getting themselves 'griefed'. ISD guys running a few scheduled mining and fleet-ops, to train the newbies in the habit of cooperation. I don't know if at some SP level players should be still be allowed in it though. And it certainly can be a great breeding ground for FW if it combines safe zones with warfare zones between these 'NPC' newbie corps. Biggest problem would be bittervets, rerolling chars for this
[img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif[/img]
This needs fixin' |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:02:00 -
[174] - Quote
The main thing that needs to happen to fix this game is that the pvp GODS need to stop telling the rest of us how to play and how we're supposed to enjoy the game. Non-consensual pvp in high sec is a complete turnoff. People who think more of that is going to bring more people to this game are in a dream world. That's already driven thousands and thousands and thousands of players out of the game.
There are staggeringly more people who have quit this game than those of us who have stuck with it. Somebody needs to start talking to them and stop listening to the HARDEN THE **** UP idiots who want nothing from the game except other people's unhappiness.
People play WOW and Sttar Wars in droves because they can play casually and they can choose how much upset they want brought into their lives by other players. Players in Eve are told to get screwed and learn to like it. So which game do you think the most people will try? And which game do you think the most people will stick with? This is not hard to understand. People leave the game because it's a mean game, people are proud of how mean it is, and people constantly rub your face in it.
The very notion that the game needs to be made harder and unfriendlier in high sec is so completely moronic that it doesn't even deserve to be debated But it will, because this game is overrun with borderline sociopaths. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5562
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:05:00 -
[175] - Quote
Holy One wrote:1. its more expensive and less accessible than other mmos I don't get it. Why do people keep claiming this nonsense when it's so blatantly obviously not true. This goes for point #2 (and #6 and #9, which are just #2 repeated), for and #7 as well.
Why are people being such abject griefers as to shove this kind of nonsense down new players' throats? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
highonpop
Void.Tech BLACK-MARK
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:07:00 -
[176] - Quote
Who in the hell said 0.0 was empty?
you're ********. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
432
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:13:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The very notion that the game needs to be made harder and unfriendlier in high sec is so completely moronic that it doesn't even deserve to be debated But it will, because this game is overrun with borderline sociopaths.
So very, very true.
Expect the flames to follow, of course. Last two words in your sentence apply.
p/
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:37:00 -
[178] - Quote
I wish people would stop using the terms PVE and PVP, the border doesn't exist in EVE. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1241
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 15:05:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The main thing that needs to happen to fix this game is that the pvp GODS need to stop telling the rest of us how to play and how we're supposed to enjoy the game. Non-consensual pvp in high sec is a complete turnoff. People who think more of that is going to bring more people to this game are in a dream world. That's already driven thousands and thousands and thousands of players out of the game.
There are staggeringly more people who have quit this game than those of us who have stuck with it. Somebody needs to start talking to them and stop listening to the HARDEN THE **** UP idiots who want nothing from the game except other people's unhappiness.
People play WOW and Sttar Wars in droves because they can play casually and they can choose how much upset they want brought into their lives by other players. Players in Eve are told to get screwed and learn to like it. So which game do you think the most people will try? And which game do you think the most people will stick with? This is not hard to understand. People leave the game because it's a mean game, people are proud of how mean it is, and people constantly rub your face in it.
The very notion that the game needs to be made harder and unfriendlier in high sec is so completely moronic that it doesn't even deserve to be debated But it will, because this game is overrun with borderline sociopaths.
So..... you are amazed that a 9 year old game has more people that have left the game over time than are currently playing it?
Really?
I know you don't realize this, or perhaps refuse to believe it, but EVE is quite well known in the gaming industry. it has a reputation for being a dark and dangerous place, a game where only the smart and streetwise survive long.
This is the draw that EVE has, and it is the reason that subscriptions have risen steadily throughout it's incredibly long lifespan... and despite claims to the contrary in this thread, still is.
You can dissagree all you like with the concept of "no place is truly safe" in EVE, but the truth is that if EVE were laid out with PVP free area's and/or consentual PVP only, EVE would at this time be only a dim memory of a mediocre game.
Fortunately CCP understands this very well, even if part of it's player base do not.
Also, looking at your earlier post, what exactly is "suicide banking" and how do I make a withdrawl?
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Cipher Jones
356
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 16:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:
The high barrier to running Incursions and runaway inflation due to riskless "PVE" in high-sec would drive any new player away from the game. Think about it, running missions or frigate mining/hauling for paltry ISK sucks when the Incursion fleet you can't join is devaluing ISK faster than you can earn it. What possible incentive does a new player who doesn't hook up with a decent player corporation really have for staying subbed to Eve? Oh snap!
You're pretty fail TBH. You can incursion in a logi, which is cheap and quick to get into. You can get in in a t3 cruiser. you can get in in multiple battleships. Wormholes still make generate more income than Incursions, they have been "devaluing isk" since 2009. It is quicker to get into a BS than it used to be if you do want to missions, and you can still easily purchase a plex every month with minimal time investment if you choose to mission. While you are complaining about the inflation of costs, you are not complaining about the inflation of income that mission salvagers are seeing right now. That is very typical in the current inflation debacle. everything you buy costs more? well yeah, everything you sell costs more too. fancy that. Fail? I doubt it. Do you really want a quick noob logi in an incursion fleet with you? Sure SOME might work out but to have inexperienced logis, the backbone of keeping an entire fleet alive, in my fleet means I couldnt run with them and Ive dropped quite a few fleets cuz of bad logis. Thats the worst thing a noob should be told to get into. Id sooner have sub par DPS and good solid logis than the reverse. Inflation for salvaging? Ive watched prices fall steadily since the introduction of the noctis so I cant see your sound logic behind that statement. Tbh as someone that still cleans up missions with a second account Id love to see the pre-Noctis highs for salvage values.
Way to be a douchebag semantic lawyer. I clearly meant the reprocess-able mission loot that anybody who is salvaging takes with them. It is clearly worth more money due to inflation and if you are salvaging anything but incursions you know this.
Crying about player retention but mentioning the noctis over and over... oh wait, a new player can now get in a noctis and salvage incursions and missions and make WAY more money than I could (have when i was new) in a god damned thrasher, and easily pay for a plex.
If you are not the type of player who is willing to teach a new player the ropes then don't ******* cry about not retaining them. I have flown with at leas 1/2 a dozen logis on their first day of logi 4, and never lost a ship. I have flown with lots of maelstrom and raven pilots on their first incursion. I have flown with drakes, and even once a caracal. Anytime we pull a new person we educate them.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
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