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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:01:00 -
[1]
Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.
I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.
CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.
Thankyou.
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Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:06:00 -
[2]
MOAR THREADS!!!!!
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:09:00 -
[3]
Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply ___________________________________________
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:12:00 -
[4]
Just give us a new line of ships with the hugginns web range bonus for the other 3 empires. No nerfs and new ships, what can possibly be bad about that!
And seriously I am no fan of nano but even I think all these nano posts are getting to be too much...
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:13:00 -
[5]
lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Yeah that should do it! Oh wait...
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Yeah that should do it! Oh wait...
Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
Hmmm... the claymore has no web bonuses so i may as well fit an ibis with webs and overload them for a fantastic 13k range! Yeah that should do it! Oh wait...
Claymore can fit warfare link mods though, one of them increases the range of your stasis webifiers.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:26:00 -
[10]
Kale Kold thread
why did I post in
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Haakelen Kale Kold thread
why did I post in
Obvious troll is obvious!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:27:00 -
[12]
Actually, I think 'fixing' nanoships, is as simple as making precision heavy missiles actually able to hit something vaguely fast for sensible amounts of damage. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:27:00 -
[13]
I'm the troll
yes
You can put the link on a drake if you want, it won't work as well but every little bit helps.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
So months of training for HACs and/or Recons and months more to max out Navigation skills, rigging skills, gunner skills, missile skills and drone skills in order to be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
I can understand constructive criticism but this "omg I need to train more skills than my target" bullcrap is senseless. Do you also whine that you need a destroyer to kill a frigate? Or a battleship to destroy a battlecruiser?
And don't throw the "oh, but you can kill a frigate with a frigate" speech at me, because that also applies to nanoships.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Lilith Velkor
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
No, they work on battlecruisers too. Having a pilot skilled for leadership isnt a bad idea for any gang, and the warfare links are blatantly overlooked in the dps-frenzy of the eft-warriors.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: James Lyrus Actually, I think 'fixing' nanoships, is as simple as making precision heavy missiles actually able to hit something vaguely fast for sensible amounts of damage.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:58:00 -
[18]
Nanos are not the problem, neither is webs. Its militia pilots that is the problem.
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Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:59:00 -
[19]
Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?
The man brings up a very good point, Kale.
Kale, what happens with faction and officer webs? What happens with overheating? What happens with the afformentioned warfare links you think are unreasonable to train for? You do realize that someone with Domi webs, overheated, with a maxed claymore in fleet (not unreasonable, at all, anymore), they'd probably be able to web out to 200km?
No.
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Flipout
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kale Kold Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.
I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.
CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.
Thankyou.
Alright! Perfect idea! Then while we are at it lets just take interceptor's out of the game since they will be useless!
Hell yeah!
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Havohej be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!
There is your problem, My crow is 25 million to fit My recon is 150 million to fit
Thats a good 6 to 1 in cost but my recon can't be killed by an indy.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
epic lolified
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Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:18:00 -
[24]
Why stop at 24? Over 9000 tbh.
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Dallas23
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Posted - 2008.06.24 00:27:00 -
[25]
personally I do not think there is any issure with nanos, overdrives, or even inertia stabs. what needs to be fixed is micro warp drives. possible fixes: -treat mwd like warp, no targeting or being targeted. -increase acceleration time to speed boost multiplier, mwd gives 600% then have it take that much longer to accelerate. -remove inertia in the same way that the heavy interdictor suffers when turning on a warp disruption generator.
these are jsut some suggestions any change would need to be tested so it does not become another issue in of it self.
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Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 01:28:00 -
[26]
Buffing web would def make nanos more balanced, but guess what ship you just made completely useless... the hit-and-run vagabond, which is legit unlike ships such as the hit-while-running nanoomgwtfbbqishtar.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 01:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
This.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 01:45:00 -
[28]
Didn't webs used to have a 20k range?
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overcorpse
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?
The man brings up a very good point, Kale.
Kale, what happens with faction and officer webs? What happens with overheating? What happens with the afformentioned warfare links you think are unreasonable to train for? You do realize that someone with Domi webs, overheated, with a maxed claymore in fleet (not unreasonable, at all, anymore), they'd probably be able to web out to 200km?
No.
So everyone should train up minmatar recons to stand a resonable chance of killing nanos.
Yup everything here looks balanced alright
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El Mauru
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:05:00 -
[30]
Actually- I like that idea :-P
Put in webs with about 1.5 to 2.5 times the range but half the velocity modifier.
That way a single ships with one or even two of these "new" webs would not really be able to stop an experienced nano-pilot, but several of them might.
It also wouldn't make the hugin/rapier obsolete (actually- they'd end up overpowered :-S), but would make the whole nano-affair a bit more challenging. -
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ShardowRhino
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
So months of training for HACs and/or Recons and months more to max out Navigation skills, rigging skills, gunner skills, missile skills and drone skills in order to be an effective nanoHAC/Recon pilot in order to take down noobs with less than half the training and paid less than a third of the cost of my nanoHAC/Recon? Hmmm, something sounds like it's balanced... and that's if you can learn how to play the game instead of whining about how somebody is better than you!!!
FAIL!!!!!!!!!!! Lets not forget the fact that others ALSO use nav,rigging,gunnery ,missle and drone skills! All so we can't hit someone that can decide to warp off when they like. Also,no one is forcing you to sink X amount of isk in order to counter 99.9% other configs.
We can easily turn it around and say that if you learned to play the game you wouldn't need to drop so much isk into a ship to have a chance. We could say your a complete noob since your using what is equal to a ship full of unnerfed warpstabs.
1 kind of setup shouldn't be effective against all but 1 t2 ship of a specific race. Especially when theres various nano ship set ups.
Also it makes no sense that no one would come out with weapons and mods to counter this nanononsense. If anything Amarr and Caldari should be the ones with ships that get web range bonuses due to the fact that the other sides have ships meant for speed.
Again CCP should come out with various range and sizes of webs. Of course scripts would also help.
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Crowman7000
Morning Star Operations
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:20:00 -
[32]
Why not just simply make it so that we you have ODs or I-stabs or polycarbs all of them or any of the three your max warp disruption range is decreased. Or when above a certain speed make it so that strength of a warp scrambler can no longer effectively target a warp core. Give a tracking speed to warp scramblers (I mean it already shoots out little rings like it is shooting) something that is really low so that your transversal is high it is unable to track the warp core of a ship. Or some RP BS. When a low dps Nano ship can no longer orbit and warp scramble outside of web range they will have to fly with ships that can survive up in up close battles. So you won't have nano blobs but mixed fleets. Now this doesn't solve the Nano ships being untouchable but it makes it so that people would have something to target in these fleets and a lone vaga couldn't take out a BS.
I know that is a mish mash of text and random thought that isn't very well put together so sue me I don't give a hell and this is my main who flies a vaga or whatever flavor of the week. ^^ Originally by: CCP Prism X ----------------------------------------------- There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
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Arachnid Vampire
Phoenix Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:26:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Arachnid Vampire on 24/06/2008 02:26:36 Your idea is fail.
Making webifiers do AOE omgwtf damage like in the Empyrean Age trailer. Now that's an idea. --- I haven't thought of a signature yet. |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:27:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 24/06/2008 02:27:52
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
So let me get this right. You are suggesting that a perfectly adequate solution to the nano "problem" is fielding a fleet that contains a Claymore--the Minmatar tech 2 Battlecruiser (aka command ship) that requires the most training--and Huginns or Rapiers--two tech 2 recon cruisers (recons)?
So then, if I've got this right you are saying that, unless you field a fleet with multiple people having over 20 million SP in Minmatar ships (realistically) you should just expect to die/and or be unable to catch nano-gangs? And something doesn't sound wrong with this to you?
Because if that's the way you think it should be, then I think gank fit ships should require highly skilled pilots in Command Ships and Recons to take them out and hold them. Otherwise I should be able to escape whenever in my gank Mega.
-K
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Aeo IV
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.06.24 03:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Amy Wang
Problems arise if the nano ship uses trackingless weapon systems like drones (best example is prolly the nano Ishtar which incidentally also has the highest effective dps of all hacs when nanod) or missiles. Those weapon systems can do damage while the ship using them is going way too fast to get hit with anything which arguably is a tad unbalanced.
QFT
The problem with nanos isn't that they move to fast, the problem is that, some ships, when nanoed, do not experence the negative effects of moving that fast, even if they should be.
The only suggestion that I feel would (probably) fix this is to limit missiles and drone use on ships that are moving that fast, ether by incuring a dronebay size nerf per nanofiber/overdrive, OR, causing missiles/drones to explode at those speeds
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.24 05:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aeo IV
The only suggestion that I feel would (probably) fix this is to limit missiles and drone use on ships that are moving that fast, ether by incuring a dronebay size nerf per nanofiber/overdrive, OR, causing missiles/drones to explode at those speeds
so your saying if you want to fly fast your not aloud to do any damage?
fail.
these threads are all so stupid, its really a simple method of TRYING new things, instead of *****ing.
Don't say you've tried it all, ive seen guys say apocs can't hit nano's, with pulse. BULL. it happens, alot, zealots too, most of the "sniper" hac's can easily track a nano ship, but it sounds like you guys are ****ed your battleships can't.
Bad news, an interceptor can likely sig tank your guns WITHOUT a mwd on at all, and do MORE damage than he could at speed.
Battleships are meant to shoot battleships. Anything else, they are worse shooting at.
Is that hard to comprehend for some reason?
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Kasilof
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Posted - 2008.06.24 05:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Aeo IV
Originally by: Amy Wang
Problems arise if the nano ship uses trackingless weapon systems like drones (best example is prolly the nano Ishtar which incidentally also has the highest effective dps of all hacs when nanod) or missiles. Those weapon systems can do damage while the ship using them is going way too fast to get hit with anything which arguably is a tad unbalanced.
QFT
The problem with nanos isn't that they move to fast, the problem is that, some ships, when nanoed, do not experence the negative effects of moving that fast, even if they should be.
The only suggestion that I feel would (probably) fix this is to limit missiles and drone use on ships that are moving that fast, ether by incuring a dronebay size nerf per nanofiber/overdrive, OR, causing missiles/drones to explode at those speeds
I like the idea of reduced drone bay size and or reduced CPU or powergrid for equiping poly carbs and overdrives. You equip speed mods you go fast but it significantly impacts your ability to fit other items and use drones.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:13:00 -
[38]
the reduced armor is quite a good tadeoff tbh (and vice versa, eh.. yeah): - minnies focus a lil on shields and mostly on speed as defense, they're allowed and supposed to move fast. - caldari have the slowest ships and are not exactly great on lowslots. snakes can blow this out of proportion, too of course, but they are the slowest in comparison one way or the other. - amarr generally miss the med slots to remedy the loss of HP with an extender along with the other stuff. - gallente... nano and blasters doesnt go together all that well, nor do rails with mwd... just the drones boats are the problem -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dallas23 personally I do not think there is any issure with nanos, overdrives, or even inertia stabs. what needs to be fixed is micro warp drives. possible fixes: -treat mwd like warp, no targeting or being targeted. -increase acceleration time to speed boost multiplier, mwd gives 600% then have it take that much longer to accelerate. -remove inertia in the same way that the heavy interdictor suffers when turning on a warp disruption generator.
these are jsut some suggestions any change would need to be tested so it does not become another issue in of it self.
Dear Idiot
Please go die in a fire. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 06:30:54
Originally by: Karlemgne Edited by: Karlemgne on 24/06/2008 02:27:52
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto lol nub. Use a claymore in your half-assed fleet, and then train overloading. You get a highly long range web without faction webs or recons.
So let me get this right. You are suggesting that a perfectly adequate solution to the nano "problem" is fielding a fleet that contains a Claymore--the Minmatar tech 2 Battlecruiser (aka command ship) that requires the most training--and Huginns or Rapiers--two tech 2 recon cruisers (recons)?
So then, if I've got this right you are saying that, unless you field a fleet with multiple people having over 20 million SP in Minmatar ships (realistically) you should just expect to die/and or be unable to catch nano-gangs? And something doesn't sound wrong with this to you?
Because if that's the way you think it should be, then I think gank fit ships should require highly skilled pilots in Command Ships and Recons to take them out and hold them. Otherwise I should be able to escape whenever in my gank Mega.
-K
What about just fitting one to one of your 1000 drakes, they can fit warfare links too.
A drake with a warfare link, a mindlink and skills at 4 will give you a bonus so you can web at 17km, now all you monkeys need to do is MOVE _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
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DK Metz
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:33:00 -
[41]
nano using pilots sucks.. they ues em cause they have no real skill... end of story.. all cxan do a nano boat... :) not all can pvp. nano fitted is NOT skilled pvp. ________________________________ Radio for YOU
Elder eve player. My mom met a jove!
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Through Actions
Weapons Grade Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
This.
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Stork DK
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: DK Metz nano using pilots sucks.. they ues em cause they have no real skill... end of story.. all cxan do a nano boat... :) not all can pvp. nano fitted is NOT skilled pvp.
lol ___________
- Stork DK |
Zephyr Rengate
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: DK Metz nano using pilots sucks.. they ues em cause they have no real skill... end of story.. all cxan do a nano boat... :) not all can pvp. nano fitted is NOT skilled pvp.
Troll post in troll thread.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
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PsychoBones
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:48:00 -
[45]
Edited by: PsychoBones on 24/06/2008 06:52:23
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Haakelen Kale Kold thread
why did I post in
Obvious troll is obvious!
You're new to this, aren't you?
Originally by: overcorpse
So everyone should train up minmatar recons to stand a resonable chance of killing nanos.
Yup everything here looks balanced alright
Actually, Amarr recons do quite nicely as well. Oh, and missile ships. Oh yeah, and anything with heavy neuts. Not to mention anything that actually has a tank.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:54:00 -
[46]
Originally by: DK Metz nano using pilots sucks.. they ues em cause they have no real skill... end of story.. all cxan do a nano boat... :) not all can pvp. nano fitted is NOT skilled pvp.
What would you say take the most skill.
Maneuvring your ship at high speed requiring good coordination and good reflexes to avoid your ship comming within 13 km of any ship while managing your cap, having to slow down.
Or just sit in your buffer tanked slowboat and hammer your forehead against the F buttons.
I'll let you decide.
Also, lol @ your name. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:59:00 -
[47]
oh noes we have to train specific ships and skills to combat certain setups! RUN FOR TEH HILLZ!!
It's like complaining that you need falcons to beat a gang of 3 logisitics cruisers and remote repping battleships. -
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Nexus Kinnon
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:17:00 -
[48]
INCREASED TENFOLD
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
INCREASED TENFOLD
MOAR DEV BLOGS! ... srsly.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Dihania
Mucho Dolor
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:50:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Dihania on 24/06/2008 07:55:05 Edited by: Dihania on 24/06/2008 07:54:11 A nano pilot needs at least 15 mil SP to start doing anything, over 20 to be good. If do not believe me please train all the skills, you will see you need the: *navigation skills (which people who do not fly nano do not train all the way) *gunnery skills/missiles/drones *the ship skills *rigging skills *overheating *implants too (probably a new mouse a couple of moths or so )
You should train about the same to be able to counter it. and you can
gang assist modules fit on battlecruisers. drones also help. like the ew and neut and web drones. implants too
. EVE: "The Hand-holding Age". I need isk!Accepting donations. Renting sig space.Taking various jobs. |
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2008.06.24 08:17:00 -
[51]
I sort of agree with the Op... the speeds of nanoships (especially combined with massive server-side lag) is totally out of proportion compared to the anti-nano tools. Heavy Neuts may have the range but they can only be fitted on BS with are both slow at locking targets and slow at pursuing the nano. Webs on the other hand have laughably short ranges... in the time it takes a nanoship to pass through the 20 km "globe" in which I could web him it's pretty much impossible to lock the nanoship and web him down to any sort of speeds that will help me. Usually the server side lag is so extreme that the web will only activate once the nano is already on 40km and won't actually have any effect. Even if the server wasn't laggy as hell the timeframe in which you can catch a nanoship with webs is still way way to short.
Either slow down the entire game by factor 10 so you don't have a timeframe of only 0,01 microseconds to web or balance nano in some other way (for instance by nerfing topspeeds and boosting webs.
Personally I'd prefer it most if CCP simply decreased the speed of eve... so a nano-fag will still fly 15km/s but on my screen those 15km/s would only be as fast as 1,5km/s are today. That way the vaga would still be really fast (relatively speaking) but it wouldn't require me to be able to react within 0,01 microseconds before the vaga is outside of webrange again.
This would also decrease the massive lag... the game would still lag like hell but at least you wouldn't have to depend on being able to lock targets within minuscule timeframes (that are further decreased due to the fact that all your actions only take effect 0,5 seconds to 5 minutes later (depending on how lagged the node is).
Maybe now that more then 2% of the customers are actually noticing just how broken eve really is CCP may finally be forced to deal with the two major problems that are present for the past years: game breaking lag and nano-ships which use this lag to be pretty much invulnerable.
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DK Metz
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Posted - 2008.06.24 08:27:00 -
[52]
and u say 15 to 20 mill sp is skilled ??? i say thats a n00b... all have 15 to 20 mill sp.. ________________________________ Radio for YOU
Elder eve player. My mom met a jove!
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Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.24 08:38:00 -
[53]
OP has completely missed the point. The problem isn't the range of webs, it's that webs do not web. All they do is reduce the max speed of the target and the inertia carries them forward. There's no actually webbing going on. If the web had a decelerative effect that wasn't just 'wait for them to stop', they'd be a hell of a lot more useful. At the moment they're only useful if your target hasn't already got to speed or isn't sufficiently on the ball to get out web range before they slow down. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Upright
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.06.24 08:52:00 -
[54]
First up ive got to lol at the FW whining about nanos...
Increasing the range of stasis webifiers will achieve nothing other than pushing nanos to go faster and a longer range. And you will kill majority of nano ships effectiveness, and just make people get Cerb's to go fast.
Really all that needs balancing is polycarbs, and snakes.
If both of these items get nerfed a tad. While they should still both give decent bonuses, when people stack snakes, polycarbs, faction mwd's and overdrives with gang bonuses, yes most hacs/recons and even some BC and BS's still can reach speeds at which aint really i believe what CCP intended in the nano tank mechanic.
The reason nano's have increased over the past 6 months or so is the fact that people started to notice how effective this combo can be, while costing and arm and a leg its probably you wont need to buy another one again.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 09:07:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 09:07:05
Originally by: DK Metz and u say 15 to 20 mill sp is skilled ??? i say thats a n00b... all have 15 to 20 mill sp..
A player can have 5mill SP and know 3 times more about the game, the mechanisms and how to kill various ships than a 30m player, you have just shown it.
You are a ******* tool.
15-20 mill SP is a year of training, 1 year. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Aslann
Win and God
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Posted - 2008.06.24 09:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Benedic Why stop at 24? Over 9000 tbh.
WHAT, OVER NINE THOUSAND!?! ______________________
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 09:23:00 -
[57]
The OP is right about something, webs are the problem, not their range, but their absolute strength.
It forces people to create setups that avoid webs, which eliminates a ton of otherwise viable ships.
Webs should have twice the range, but half the strength and should have reduced effect on ships with stronger engines.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
Ioci
Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.06.24 09:44:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Anubis Xian The OP is right about something, webs are the problem, not their range, but their absolute strength.
It forces people to create setups that avoid webs, which eliminates a ton of otherwise viable ships.
Webs should have twice the range, but half the strength and should have reduced effect on ships with stronger engines.
And size. Nano debate aside, it never made sense a crow could shut down an Abaddon with the same energy base as it takes to slow a Cerb or another crow.
On the Nano thing, it's why I didn't get too excited about FW. I've been in 0.0 long enough to know what they provide to combat fields. It has been around long enough, we know CCP won't change it. Why should they? |
Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 13:34:00 -
[59]
Why not have scripts in Webs?
One for range and one for strenght. i.e. to deaden the inertia too!
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:58:00 -
[60]
There needs to be a slight fix with the inertia part imo, it's way too easy to pull out with inertia at the moment. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
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BobbyCarter
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:15:00 -
[61]
Just give every race a *** **** ship with a web range bonus and be done with it. Thats really the only problem, is that people that have to start from scratch to cross train Minny ships and weapons don't want to do that to counter just one setup. Every faction should have a ship that gives the bonus the hugin receives, or at least close to it.
On a more serious note, the level of ******ation of some of the suggestions in this thread implies that I share new eden with some severely handicapped individuals. Seriously? How do some of you manage to feed and clothe yourselves? Government assistance? Hired help? Still living in your parents basement?
Slow the game down by a factor of 10? Double web ranges? R U SEARIUS? |
FORD ESC0RT
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:38:00 -
[62]
what's wrong with having a 24km web? it doesn't make sense we have 24km disruptor and a 10km web. why max only 10km? my drake > your nano ship. it's s BC. boohoo my****abond isn't soloing gangs of battleships.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:40:00 -
[63]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT what's wrong with having a 24km web? it doesn't make sense we have 24km disruptor and a 10km web. why max only 10km? my drake > your nano ship. it's s BC. boohoo my****abond isn't soloing gangs of battleships.
Vagas don't solo gangs of battleships.
24km web would create 200km Huginns.
24km web makes interceptors completely suicidal.
Level 4 missions are not PvP, Caldari muppet. Drakes are not the end all be all of internet spaceships, perhaps if you tried another one you might realize this. Stop posting.
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Lieutenant Isis
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dallas23 -treat mwd like warp, no targeting or being targeted.
This is THE best nano-nerf ever! Please impliment this.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:51:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Alz Shado on 24/06/2008 15:54:07 Scripts. Cut the default effectiveness in half across the board for ALL webs. Remove any stacking penalties.
Now add a range doubler which halves the effective speed (or, 25% of what it is today) And add a strength doubler, which halves the effective range but doubles effectiveness (to 100% of today)
Close-range tacklers are still effective, but long range boats can now get a chance to hit someone orbiting 5000k/s @ 20km.
Yes, the Huginn can now reach @ 80km with T2 webs. Deal.
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:52:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lieutenant Isis
Originally by: Dallas23 -treat mwd like warp, no targeting or being targeted.
This is THE best nano-nerf ever! Please impliment this.
And nerf every ship that depends on an mwd for range management.
Which means every ship but missile boats.
Clever, really clever. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Solera Prime
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT why max only 10km? my drake > your nano ship. it's s BC. boohoo my****abond isn't soloing gangs of battleships.
And this, this is why I am growing tired of discussing this "issue" with you and your caldari militia friends who obviously thinks that ravens, drakes and caracals are the ultimate in EVE.
It isn't.
**** off.
Now. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:57:00 -
[69]
Problem isn't the webs, its the fact that people tend to follow the least risk factor and the biggest i-win factor. The problem is the next muppet who joins the line of the already overpopulated nano fleets.
Based on pure incurred damage, speed tanks rule. Plus, speed doubles as modified warp stab to get the heck out whenever they want. So as near impossible as it is to kill one with missiles, drones, and turrets... it's equally near impossible to tackle one to even begin to do damage.
Nano rules, because even though you have webs to counter... they very rarely kill a nano. Nano's will run and run and run away.
Killing one and countering one are two VERY different things. So, until CCP sees that nanos (and cloaks for that mattter) are ruining the game, players will continue exploit these tactics beyond the games design.
Those people have their own greed in mind, and not the quality and future of this game.
--------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Problem isn't the webs, its the fact that people tend to follow the least risk factor and the biggest i-win factor.
You mean... like blobbing and/or generating lag? Of course not! Valid tactic! That'll show those mean older players!
Quote:
Plus, speed doubles as modified warp stab to get the heck out whenever they want.
Just like ECM.
Quote: So as near impossible as it is to kill one with missiles, drones, and turrets...
You mean... you might have to organize a balanced, diverse fleet? How terrible.
Quote: Killing one and countering one are two VERY different things.
Stop looking at PvP through the mindset of missions.
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Foocurr
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:06:00 -
[71]
THIS GAME IS WAY TOO HARD FOR ME. MAKE IT EASIER THX.
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Problem isn't the webs, its the fact that people tend to follow the least risk factor and the biggest i-win factor. The problem is the next muppet who joins the line of the already overpopulated nano fleets.
Based on pure incurred damage, speed tanks rule. Plus, speed doubles as modified warp stab to get the heck out whenever they want. So as near impossible as it is to kill one with missiles, drones, and turrets... it's equally near impossible to tackle one to even begin to do damage.
Nano rules, because even though you have webs to counter... they very rarely kill a nano. Nano's will run and run and run away.
Killing one and countering one are two VERY different things. So, until CCP sees that nanos (and cloaks for that mattter) are ruining the game, players will continue exploit these tactics beyond the games design.
Those people have their own greed in mind, and not the quality and future of this game.
So, not only are you now ****ed that ships go fast, but you don't like cloakers either?
You heard it here first folks, the next mega whine session will be recons if they get this done.
ITS NOT FAIR, I CAN'T SEE HIS PAPER THIN SHIP TO KILL IT!!! NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!
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Funkcikle
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:18:00 -
[73]
/me Orbits thread @ 10km a sec Spamming 1 liners
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Funkcikle
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:20:00 -
[74]
on a more serious note, i Did have a fight with me vs 74 caracals the other night , killing 7 before the rest ran away. Make of that what you will (boost ceptors cargoholds so I can carry moar ammo next time)
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:20:00 -
[75]
1. blobbing is not a ship... its not unbalanced against anything.
2. ECM can't jam (or out run) a fleet.
3. All fleets are diverse, except a nano fleet. Using multiple diverse ships still doesn't get nano kills. that is why its flawed. you can't force people to all fly huginns. that is a pointless attitude in a game for everyone.
4. i have no idea what you mean about looking through the mindset of missions. you need to stop looking thru your big ego head and realize pvp is encompassing. and when its so lopsided to nanos, there IS a problem.
so yea... you failed on all attempts to prove anything to me. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Pithecanthropus
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 16:22:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
So, not only are you now ****ed that ships go fast, but you don't like cloakers either?
You heard it here first folks, the next mega whine session will be recons if they get this done.
ITS NOT FAIR, I CAN'T SEE HIS PAPER THIN SHIP TO KILL IT!!! NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!
sad attempts make my day
--------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Steel Tigeress
Steel-Wolfs
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:22:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Foocurr THIS GAME IS WAY TOO HARD FOR ME. MAKE IT EASIER THX.
Buy a Vaga, and fit spped mods.... Now your game is much easier, and you can claim mad skillz at the same time...
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus 1. blobbing is not a ship... its not unbalanced against anything.
2. ECM can't jam (or out run) a fleet.
3. All fleets are diverse, except a nano fleet. Using multiple diverse ships still doesn't get nano kills. that is why its flawed. you can't force people to all fly huginns. that is a pointless attitude in a game for everyone.
4. i have no idea what you mean about looking through the mindset of missions. you need to stop looking thru your big ego head and realize pvp is encompassing. and when its so lopsided to nanos, there IS a problem.
so yea... you failed on all attempts to prove anything to me.
You are so wrong I won't even bother commenting any further on this. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:24:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: Foocurr THIS GAME IS WAY TOO HARD FOR ME. MAKE IT EASIER THX.
Buy a Vaga, and fit spped mods.... Now your game is much easier, and you can claim mad skillz at the same time...
Buy a Drake, and fit Passive shield tank mods.... Now your game is much easier, and you can claim mad nerfz at the same time... _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:25:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus 1. blobbing is not a ship... its not unbalanced against anything.
Thank you for proving my point. You are crying that people who have invested more time and effort into this game can avoid you.
Quote: 2. ECM can't jam (or out run) a fleet.
Not every engagement is 50 ships versus 3, you know. And You've obviously never been in a situation where a Falcon jams a 3-ship gatecamp and GTFOs.
Quote: 3. All fleets are diverse, except a nano fleet.
Really? Because I've seen a lot of the otherwise.
Quote: Using multiple diverse ships still doesn't get nano kills.
It does if you know how to fit ships and aren't a moron/aren't being led by a moron.
Quote: you can't force people to all fly huginns. that is a pointless attitude in a game for everyone.
And you can't force everyone to fly Drakes and Caracals.
Get out.
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VenutianLoVe
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:27:00 -
[81]
Pith makes very valid points, Ive FC'd versus many nano gangs and my fleet was diversified as hell and we still couldnt do anything about the nano's, cause the fact of the matter is that nanos dont fight fleets unless they have the favor, they run and pick and choose their battles, which makes them that much more annoying, its all about that gorilla warfare ;( I wish dictors could drop web bubbles also that would be fun ;)
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:38:00 -
[82]
Originally by: VenutianLoVe Pith makes very valid points
Of course I do... I've played 5+ years.
Haak is just that... a hack. There are people who actually play this game, and he has only witnessed about 10% of Eve. Stupid nanoweenies are just ego maniacs who are too scared to fight true pvp without running away. They're just a bunch of little girls who like tinkerbell wings and fancy warp stabbed ships.
--------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
VenutianLoVe
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:40:00 -
[83]
I know im on my alt, but ive been here since beta, never been much of a complainer though just a watcher of sorts lol
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:46:00 -
[84]
What about proving your so called "Veteran Status" by posting on your mains? Every single idiot on this forum can get an alt and post that he's a 5+ year veteran, I'm not buying it. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Ford Sengir
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:47:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kale Kold Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.
I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.
CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.
Thankyou.
Gee, I wonder how hard you will be moaning the first time your own pwnboat gets webbed by a rapier at 74 km.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:51:00 -
[86]
When you weight the nuts and bolts of it all. Nano's simply are too overpowered. Even those who play nanos agree. Big ships traveling fast is flawed. I laugh at all the reasons people like Hack conjure up... pulling ridiculous arguments out of his arse... no sense of anything. Not to mention the few who think the problem is countering and being organized. Cuz quite frankly, there's nothing organized and thought out about flying a nano. It's a gank fit. It's for griefers. It lessens what pvp is.
They'll never see the big picture. I'm beginning to think they argue just to argue about it. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:53:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Haakelen on 24/06/2008 16:53:27 griefers
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Pithecanthropus
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 16:54:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tenuo What about proving your so called "Veteran Status" by posting on your mains? Every single idiot on this forum can get an alt and post that he's a 5+ year veteran, I'm not buying it.
Ask me if I care. Part of the thrill is knowing you don't buy it. Knowing my knowledge of this game is far more extensive than yours just ****es you off.
--------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Pithecanthropus
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 16:55:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 24/06/2008 16:53:27 griefers
took an edit to post that? had to make it bold? LOL --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Dingi223
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 16:59:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Dingi223 on 24/06/2008 17:03:46 So the vagabond, which is described as:
"The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat"
actually performs it's role, and everyone is unhappy? Everytime a specific example comes up, it's always a vaga. Hey, guess what - that Vaga is performing EXACTLY what it's role is. And I bet for fewer skillpoints, and a cheaper fit, I can fit a Drake with a passive tank that the vagabond will not break. Use EFT, prove me wrong. Then figure out what falloff does to DPS, and I'll prove you wrong. All for less iskies too.
Caldari, with the falcon, one of the most effective recons ships in the game. It can effectively lock down 3 targets where they cannot do *anything* save run away. However, now people want to take the Minmatar recon and make it useless with changing how webs work? Sure, let's give everyone a 24 km web, I'll take being able to effectively use ECM as well. Let's lose all diversity in the game. We can invalidate Minmatars HAC, as well as Minmatars recon, in a single change!
Unfortunately only about 5% of people actually consider what trash they spew forth and consider the implications. The majority are simply Caldari FW whiners that are upset their passive PvE fits are not as leet as they once thought, and want the rest of the game to adapt to their tactics.
And no, I don't fly nano's, I fly Minmatar recons, and I actually appreciate having a role in the game.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:00:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 24/06/2008 16:53:27 griefers
took an edit to post that? had to make it bold? LOL
You've run out of bad arguments so while you make some up you pick on how people edit their forum posts.
Amazing, also LOL at your comment above, through all the nano threads you've shown how little you actually know about the game and how little you've actually PvP'd in 0.0 and low sec. Sure you may have played 5 years.
IN MOTSU!
I also find it pretty hilarious that you whiners either ignore every single post we make with counters and how to kill them or plain simply just quote it and say "DOESNT WORK" without actually trying it. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:01:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dingi223 So the vagabond, which is described as:
"The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat"
actually performs it's role, and everyone is unhappy? Everytime a specific example comes up, it's always a vaga. Hey, guess what - that Vaga is performing EXACTLY what's it's role is. And I bet for fewer skillpoints, and a cheaper fit, I can fit a Drake with a passive tank that the vagabond will not break. Use EFT, prove me wrong. Then figure out what falloff does to DPS, and I'll prove you wrong. All for less iskies too.
Caldari, with the falcon, one of the most effective recons ships in the game. It can effectively lock down 3 targets where they cannot do *anything* save run away. However, now people want to take the Minmatar recon and make it useless with changing how webs work? Sure, let's give everyone a 24 km web, I'll take being able to effectively use ECM as well. Let's lose all diversity in the game. We can to invalidate Minmatars HAC, as well as Minmatars recon, in a single change!
Unfortunately only about 5% of people actually consider what trash they spew forth and consider the implications. The majority are simply Caldari FW whiners that are upset their passive PvE fits are not as leet as they once thought, and want the rest of the game to adapt to their tactics.
And no, I don't fly nano's, I fly Minmatar recons, and I actually appreciate having a role in the game.
Spot on my friend, SPOT ON! _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:02:00 -
[93]
At least three times in the past TWO WEEKS I've had to disengage from a WT in a Drake, because their passive tank wasn't getting nicked very much, and I was running out of cap/having to take some damage inbetween MWD cycles. I would like to acquire one of these I-Win buttons, because I sure as hell don't have one.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:03:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kale Kold Since the Faction War expansion nano fitted ships have increased ten fold. Trying to catch 'em is severly limited due to the absolute downright inadequate range of Stasis Webifiers. Just one pulse of a Micro Warp Drive and your webs are completely useless as their inertia carries them out of range in seconds.
I know some recons get a bonus to the range of webs, but, c'mon, recons always go pop first in any fight, thus totally negating their effect on a nano fleet.
CCP, please increase the range of webs to 24k to match the distrupters.
Thankyou.
Web scripts, such as +100% range, -50% effectiveness (or whatever is balanced) would be good. A 10k/sec crow would go down to 5k/sec, still fast enough to do its thing. A 6k/sec vaga would go down to 3k/sec, meaning you need 2-3 people weabing him - Or 1 rapier/huggin.
--
Billion Isk Mission |
Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:03:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Haakelen it's cool i just know what's up now
you got killed (probably a few times) by someone in a fast ship and now you're on a holy crusade to nerf them, because you assume that with fast ships nerfed, you won't get killed as easily. until you encounter a remote rep BS gatecamp
no Haak, he was ****ed when he somebody said we manually fly our ships. Hes spent the past 23 hours trying to figure out how, and he's pretty bitter right now.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:06:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
no Haak, he was ****ed when he somebody said we manually fly our ships. Hes spent the past 23 hours trying to figure out how, and he's pretty bitter right now.
I almost think we need another Armageddon day, so people who haven't ever flown a poly'd HAC can find out how difficult it is to properly use it. Except the last one lagged so horribly, it wouldn't work so great.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:07:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 23/06/2008 23:25:40
Originally by: Haakelen Hint: Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
So months of training for command ships and months more for warlinks in order to take down ships that require half the training and are half the cost? Hmmm. something sounds like it needs balancing... and thats if you can lock them before they warp!!!
Just to point it out: a command link affect a whole squad/wing/fleet, not a single ship. It is so hard and unreasonable to get 1 player with that skill in the whole fleet to get the bonus for all the players?
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Steel Tigeress
Steel-Wolfs
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:08:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Dingi223 So the vagabond, which is described as:
"The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat"
actually performs it's role, and everyone is unhappy? Everytime a specific example comes up, it's always a vaga. Hey, guess what - that Vaga is performing EXACTLY what's it's role is. And I bet for fewer skillpoints, and a cheaper fit, I can fit a Drake with a passive tank that the vagabond will not break. Use EFT, prove me wrong. Then figure out what falloff does to DPS, and I'll prove you wrong. All for less iskies too.
Caldari, with the falcon, one of the most effective recons ships in the game. It can effectively lock down 3 targets where they cannot do *anything* save run away. However, now people want to take the Minmatar recon and make it useless with changing how webs work? Sure, let's give everyone a 24 km web, I'll take being able to effectively use ECM as well. Let's lose all diversity in the game. We can to invalidate Minmatars HAC, as well as Minmatars recon, in a single change!
Unfortunately only about 5% of people actually consider what trash they spew forth and consider the implications. The majority are simply Caldari FW whiners that are upset their passive PvE fits are not as leet as they once thought, and want the rest of the game to adapt to their tactics.
And no, I don't fly nano's, I fly Minmatar recons, and I actually appreciate having a role in the game.
Spot on my friend, SPOT ON!
Now where in that description does it say that Vaga's should be faster than inties, or any other ship in the game... It doesnt. It just says they are built to be the fastest CRUISER in the game.... They could go just 250m/s and fit that criteria.
The problem isn't just with Vaga's though, its with the speed mods themselves, not with the ships.
Explain to me Why MWD's arnt allowed in missions... not the RP reason, the actual reason given by CCP, then explain why that reason does not describe exactly what speed is doing to PvP now as well.
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Kyusoath Orillian
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:10:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus When you weight the nuts and bolts of it all. Nano's simply are too overpowered. Even those who play nanos agree. Big ships traveling fast is flawed. I laugh at all the reasons people like Hack conjure up... pulling ridiculous arguments out of his arse... no sense of anything. Not to mention the few who think the problem is countering and being organized. Cuz quite frankly, there's nothing organized and thought out about flying a nano. It's a gank fit. It's for griefers. It lessens what pvp is.
They'll never see the big picture. I'm beginning to think they argue just to argue about it.
/agree.
i love thinking thru a great HAC setup, and then remembering that the first nanosh1t that comes along will either kill me or **** me off while my tank holds up completely, and at all times he is safe and can run away.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:11:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Now where in that description does it say that Vaga's should be faster than inties, or any other ship in the game... It doesnt. It just says they are built to be the fastest CRUISER in the game.... They could go just 250m/s and fit that criteria.
My alt's Vaga, right now, goes 5,971m/s. My Ares goes 7,250. My Alt's Claw goes 7600. I have seen a crow approach 20km/s. I have see Machariels go 12km/s. I have seen Interceptors go 1,200m/s. You do not know what you're talking about.
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Kyusoath Orillian
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:12:00 -
[101]
'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:14:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Dingi223 So the vagabond, which is described as:
"The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat"
actually performs it's role, and everyone is unhappy? Everytime a specific example comes up, it's always a vaga. Hey, guess what - that Vaga is performing EXACTLY what's it's role is. And I bet for fewer skillpoints, and a cheaper fit, I can fit a Drake with a passive tank that the vagabond will not break. Use EFT, prove me wrong. Then figure out what falloff does to DPS, and I'll prove you wrong. All for less iskies too.
Caldari, with the falcon, one of the most effective recons ships in the game. It can effectively lock down 3 targets where they cannot do *anything* save run away. However, now people want to take the Minmatar recon and make it useless with changing how webs work? Sure, let's give everyone a 24 km web, I'll take being able to effectively use ECM as well. Let's lose all diversity in the game. We can to invalidate Minmatars HAC, as well as Minmatars recon, in a single change!
Unfortunately only about 5% of people actually consider what trash they spew forth and consider the implications. The majority are simply Caldari FW whiners that are upset their passive PvE fits are not as leet as they once thought, and want the rest of the game to adapt to their tactics.
And no, I don't fly nano's, I fly Minmatar recons, and I actually appreciate having a role in the game.
Spot on my friend, SPOT ON!
Now where in that description does it say that Vaga's should be faster than inties, or any other ship in the game... It doesnt. It just says they are built to be the fastest CRUISER in the game.... They could go just 250m/s and fit that criteria.
The problem isn't just with Vaga's though, its with the speed mods themselves, not with the ships.
Explain to me Why MWD's arnt allowed in missions... not the RP reason, the actual reason given by CCP, then explain why that reason does not describe exactly what speed is doing to PvP now as well.
You clearly have no clue
What about shutting up. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:15:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
"Properly".
Explain what properly is
Oh right, YOU made it up so YOU could have an excuse to come cry on the forums.
THIS IS A SANDBOX GAME WHAT PART OF PLAY IT AS YOU LIKE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
DO YOU WANT A GAME WHERE EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN SHIP IS PIDGEONHOLED IN TO A ROLE?
I ******* DONT.
CLEAR ENOUGH? _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:16:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
I know you just got through with dealing with PL, but chill a bit ok
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:18:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
I know you just got through with dealing with PL, but chill a bit ok
PL are said to be some of the biggest "nanofags" in this game.
Yet still they use *gasp* Battleships in fleets and *gasp* regularly use BS RR gangs.
The whole thing about nano gangs taking over is pure bull****, there are SO many things they can't do and so many ships that have other roles. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kyusoath Orillian
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:18:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
"Properly".
Explain what properly is
Oh right, YOU made it up so YOU could have an excuse to come cry on the forums.
THIS IS A SANDBOX GAME WHAT PART OF PLAY IT AS YOU LIKE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
DO YOU WANT A GAME WHERE EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN SHIP IS PIDGEONHOLED IN TO A ROLE?
I ******* DONT.
CLEAR ENOUGH?
i require more caps you ***********got.
upset about the threat of having your overpowered 'play style' removed ?
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Jane Vladmir
Warmongers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:18:00 -
[107]
No no no and no.
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Lawk
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:19:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Haakelen
I know you just got through with dealing with PL, but chill a bit ok
This is gold.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:19:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Originally by: Tenuo
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian 'every single person that thinks nano setups are somehow overpowered is wrong.'
that is what nanofags expect us to believe.
you will be nerfed and forced to play this game properly.
"Properly".
Explain what properly is
Oh right, YOU made it up so YOU could have an excuse to come cry on the forums.
THIS IS A SANDBOX GAME WHAT PART OF PLAY IT AS YOU LIKE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
DO YOU WANT A GAME WHERE EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN SHIP IS PIDGEONHOLED IN TO A ROLE?
I ******* DONT.
CLEAR ENOUGH?
i require more caps you ***********got.
upset about the threat of having your overpowered 'play style' removed ?
Try again.
I don't fly them, but I know how to counter them.
What about trying other insults.
And caps seems to be the only thing getting through your skull, the rest of our reasonable posts are just overlooked. Like talking to a door _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kyusoath Orillian
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:21:00 -
[110]
i agree , nanofaggotry is not 'taking over' , and proper ships, with proper setups still are used.
but 1 nanofag is too many. enjoy it while it lasts
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:22:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Haakelen on 24/06/2008 17:24:25
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian i agree , nanofaggotry is not 'taking over' , and proper ships, with proper setups still are used.
but 1 nanofag is too many. enjoy it while it lasts
i lost a cyno ares.
cyno ares
i think i have more right to be mad than you about fountain, don't take it too seriously
e: also sup Lawk, ex-KOS represent itt
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:24:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian i agree , nanofaggotry is not 'taking over' , and proper ships, with proper setups still are used.
but 1 nanofag is too many. enjoy it while it lasts
Once again you say "proper ships" and "proper setups"
WHATS THE ******* MATTER WITH YOU?
Read my above post.
Oh wait, it's pro-nano, i'll just skip it. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:25:00 -
[113]
Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:26:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:27:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 17:27:19
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
You could just kill it's drones.
Just sayin'
or outrun them, I heard something about Heavy drones not being nano'd. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Lawk
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:31:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 24/06/2008 17:24:25
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian i agree , nanofaggotry is not 'taking over' , and proper ships, with proper setups still are used.
but 1 nanofag is too many. enjoy it while it lasts
i lost a cyno ares.
cyno ares
i think i have more right to be mad than you about fountain, don't take it too seriously
e: also sup Lawk, ex-KOS represent itt
High5, my failed alliance brosef.
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Call'Da Poleece
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:41:00 -
[117]
ITT: Nanofags mock anyone who thinks speed tanks are unbalanced |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:54:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece ITT: Nanofags mock anyone who thinks speed tanks are unbalanced
ITT: Nanowhiners keep spewing out stupid arguments, keeps overlooking posts and throwing away viable counters while being unable to play the game and adapting to changes. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:03:00 -
[119]
The post has been reported. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:06:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 24/06/2008 20:07:37
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
Originally by: Tenuo Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 17:27:19
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
You could just kill it's drones.
Just sayin'
or outrun them, I heard something about Heavy drones not being nano'd.
It's also going to have 325-375m3 worth of drones before it runs dry, and then it just runs away, unless the pilot is an absolute moron and decides to zoom in to web range for no apparent reason.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:12:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 20:13:43
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 24/06/2008 20:07:37
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
Originally by: Tenuo Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 17:27:19
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Vagabond is fine, it can't do damage while zipping around. Things like nano ishtars are just bad and deserve a nerf (and then maybe replace the useless med hybrid bonus with something it could take advantage of so it doesn't simply turn into a subpar smaller domi).
You could just kill it's drones.
Just sayin'
or outrun them, I heard something about Heavy drones not being nano'd.
It's also going to have 325-375m3 worth of drones before it runs dry, and then it just runs away, unless the pilot is an absolute moron and decides to zoom in to web range for no apparent reason.
That wasn't what we were discussing, use one of the counters mentioned in the 1000 other threads about nanos please.
Also, the ishtar is absurdely broken on fitting. 3 gun slots and it can't even fit 4 guns? wtf? And try fitting mwd, dual mar and an electrochem along with tackle gear and hardeners and then try fitting guns. They dont fit, you can fit 2, leaving you with 3 high slots, not enough grid for another gun and certain not enough cpu to fit anything in the last 3 highs really.
The ship is limited on cpu and grid that it isn't even funny. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Dominatus Crispus on 24/06/2008 20:14:20
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Of course I ... like tinkerbell wings and fancy warp stabbed ships.
there i fixed it for you... :) ____________________
ravetrax.com ... player owned and operated |
Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Tenuo Also, the ishtar is absurdely broken on fitting. 3 gun slots and it can't even fit 4 guns? wtf? And try fitting mwd, dual mar and an electrochem along with tackle gear and hardeners and then try fitting guns. They dont fit, you can fit 2, leaving you with 3 high slots, not enough grid for another gun and certain not enough cpu to fit anything in the last 3 highs really.
Yes I'm aware of that, which is why I mentioned its hybrid damage bonus as being useless previously and should be replaced with something more useful.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on.
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Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:17:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on. Myrmidons can use 5 heavies and have spares?
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:20:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dominatus Crispus Edited by: Dominatus Crispus on 24/06/2008 20:14:20
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Of course I ... like tinkerbell wings and fancy warp stabbed ships.
there i'm an idiot. :)
You fail at life. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:21:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
Gallente don't deserve a good HAC, you are so right sir
The only thing ishtar could possibly do is nano, you are so right sir
I am right because without nano it's a 100M ISK Myrmidon you can't insure and can't fit **** on.
Myrmidons can use 5 heavies and have spares?
No, but it can fit guns and get a higher dps if you do a double LSE fit on the myrm and put neutrons on and MFS in the low. Personal repping is a no-go in gangs and plateing a HAC goes against the concept of having a mobile BC like ship .... _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:24:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus You fail at life.
lol... your probaly right, but at least not as much as the guy who has played internet spaceships for 5+ years... ____________________
ravetrax.com ... player owned and operated |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:33:00 -
[129]
i'd like to have the kind of money these pubbies do, because i sure as hell can't afford to throw away an extra 75M ISK for a ship that tanks slightly worse, has half the EHP, and does at best 75 DPS more than the equivalent BC.
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Hurtado Soneka
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:39:00 -
[130]
nothing wrong with fast ships...
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:05:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Huugin with 24km baserange webber anybody?
Now how about Huginns with 240km web range?
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:07:00 -
[132]
The hilarious part of the 'zomg just boost webber range' people (idiots) is that their justification for it is that it makes minmatar recons less omnipresent in PvP, when in reality it will make them completely and totally overpowered and people will use them even more.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:11:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Haakelen The hilarious part of the 'zomg just boost webber range' people (idiots) is that their justification for it is that it makes minmatar recons less omnipresent in PvP, when in reality it will make them completely and totally overpowered and people will use them even more.
No but seriously, webbers should have longer distance than warp disruptors, it'd benefit the fights more as you can bring speeds down to get a shooting match going but people can still disengage if they play it smart. Also it being harder to bring someones speed down than completely shut down their capability to warp out somehow throws me for a loop.
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
SirMoric
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:16:00 -
[134]
What I find stunning are the method missiles use for engaging targets, they simply point towards the target until they hit, like this:
Even modern missiles tries to calculate the path of the target versus the path of the missile to get a good hit, like this:
This would make the missile deadly against nanoships.... Unless fired from behind.... Or the ship alters course and start flying away from the missile.
just a thought.
rgds
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:18:00 -
[135]
Originally by: SirMoric seriously guys why can't you just make the drake the best ship?
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Steel Tigeress
Steel-Wolfs
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:45:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Steel Tigeress on 24/06/2008 21:46:02 Its kinda funny how these debates sound just like all the ones last time speed was nerfed. All the Nano Domi pilots badgering everyone who claimed it was broken.... screaming "IT'S NOT BROKEN" right up untill they got the nerfbat.... Expect it again soon.
No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.... Which is why MWD's are not allowed in missions. The same principals apply to both, tank the damage or avoid it, or kill all opposition befor they can do damage.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:46:00 -
[137]
That's not why MWDs are disallowed in missions, they're disallowed in missions to make farming them harder. Would you stop comparing missions and PvP please jesus christ
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:47:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 21:47:50 Quote from Jade Constantine on SHC after the latest CSM meeting:
Originally by: Jade Constantine Nano's didn't formally get raised.
I had a couple of informal chats with the devs on the subject though - and they are seeing some nano use as a problem (up in the 8000mps+ bracket) where the game logic breaks down. And that ties into some comments that Mistress Suffering has made previously on these forums.
But its one of these areas where the solution if anything might be pretty radical with a whole bunch of knock on effects - like buffing ab's and making them the orbit module while mwds are for burn-outs and point to point travel. Its complicated though so no idea whats going to happen there ultimately. Reminded me a bit of the buff AF's discussion where ccp were saying this is an area that might need to re-write the webifier and scrambler logic first.
Its probably fair to say that "nano" usage in the 3000-4000 mps mark isn't much of a problem, whereas the snakes, polycarbs, drugs and heat fueled 8000mps+ stuff does break the game engine a bit.
They think that the absurd speeds are out of line which is what I think too, but the normal nano speeds are fine.
Does this mean we win Can i get a killmail or will it nano away? _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:50:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tenuo Edited by: Tenuo on 24/06/2008 21:47:50 Quote from Jade Constantine on SHC after the latest CSM meeting:
Originally by: Jade Constantine Nano's didn't formally get raised.
I had a couple of informal chats with the devs on the subject though - and they are seeing some nano use as a problem (up in the 8000mps+ bracket) where the game logic breaks down. And that ties into some comments that Mistress Suffering has made previously on these forums.
But its one of these areas where the solution if anything might be pretty radical with a whole bunch of knock on effects - like buffing ab's and making them the orbit module while mwds are for burn-outs and point to point travel. Its complicated though so no idea whats going to happen there ultimately. Reminded me a bit of the buff AF's discussion where ccp were saying this is an area that might need to re-write the webifier and scrambler logic first.
Its probably fair to say that "nano" usage in the 3000-4000 mps mark isn't much of a problem, whereas the snakes, polycarbs, drugs and heat fueled 8000mps+ stuff does break the game engine a bit.
They think that the absurd speeds are out of line which is what I think too, but the normal nano speeds are fine.
Does this mean we win Can i get a killmail or will it nano away?
:toot:
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:51:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Steel Tigeress No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.
Because I can already kite mission rats in a drake that doesn't even have an afterburner on it? Because it's easier than rebalancing the rats? Because rats are about as similar to real people as apples are to oranges?
Say what you want about speed in pvp but cluttering up the equation with mission rats is frankly goofy as hell. ___________________________________________
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 21:54:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Steel Tigeress No one has still explained why speed tanking is considered overpowered in PvE, but not in PvP.
Because I can already kite mission rats in a drake that doesn't even have an afterburner on it? Because it's easier than rebalancing the rats? Because rats are about as similar to real people as apples are to oranges?
Say what you want about speed in pvp but cluttering up the equation with mission rats is frankly goofy as hell.
Yes, and people already speed/transversal tank (same thing really) 0.0 belt rats. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:08:00 -
[142]
the op is right. nanos are so broken. the second FW came out the number of nanoships in eve multiplied by ONE BILLION. THEY ARE SO OVERPOWERED because the only way to kill a nano is to web it. There's no other module in the game that could kill a nanoship. I mean last night there was this 3.5km/s ishtar zooming around me at 20k. My raven was helpless to complete my FW objective solo... even when I brought my friends in ravens I couldn't STOP HIM!!
I hope people keep making threads pointing out this rediculous imbalance that no one can counter without webs.
Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head. -----
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Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:59:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:04:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
I'm fairly certain you couldn't kill Kery's hauler alt if he flew a shuttle into a smarty BS of yours.
Just' sayin.
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SirMoric
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:06:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: SirMoric seriously guys why can't you just make the drake the best ship?
Hmm, yeah, that would do it too
rgds
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:26:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Kery Syander Thank you FW for encouraging morons like the OP to pvp and then head to the forums when they find themselves incapable of actually doing well in pvp.
Thank you to the op for both making me laugh, and want to put a nail in my head.
I've never been involved in FW why should i, i'm a pirate. Oh wait you must be still sore after losing your alts hauler the other day???
oh man, you must have. I lost it while autopiloting from jita to amamake and just went afk for a few hours.
So you're gonna admit that you're a pirate who is incapable of defeating the ALMIGHTY NANO or to make an intelligable post discussing them? You obviously aren't very good if you continue to not kill nano ships that stray into web range. -----
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:26:00 -
[147]
The problem is not range, but the fact that webs don't actually do what they say they do.
Webs are supposed to "entangle the target" in it's place. Instead, all they do is cut the max speed, and the target continues forward by inertia until it's out of web range.
They did the right thing with heavy dictors, affecting their mass/agility (don't remember which one), so that once activated, their actual speed rapidly drops. Same needs to be done with webs. == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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supr3m3justic3
ACE'S OVER 8'S The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:31:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Quelque Chose Dear OP:
Please die in a fire.
Thanks, Your Pals at New Eden Roller Disco Supply
epic lolified
OMG....ha ha ah lol.....lol....rofl....
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Cpt Branko
Surge. NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.24 23:42:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/06/2008 23:45:41 Webs are simply overpowered. Anything undersized gets murdered far too much with 90% webs, and it's preety much the only module which reduces a attribute by 90%, without a counter-module, either.
Long-range webs promote even more blobbing anyway (since it makes it much harder to run and much easier to tackle, even in ships which shouldn't be tackling; and imo, a cruiser SHOULD be able to get away from a BS-gang, they should be forced to bring and bloody well risk tacklers), and nerf most short-range ships on top of things. So, no. Too much collateral damage.
Originally by: ShardowRhino
1 kind of setup shouldn't be effective against all but 1 t2 ship of a specific race.
You mean, effective vs anything but: - 2 minmatar ships - 1 amarr ship (ever hear of the curse?) - multiple interceptors (which are cheap, anyway) - gangs (or solo-ers) with a specific warfare link - blood raider ships - ships with heavy neuts - any expensive configs with domination/etc webs
And, yes, other fittings/ships sometimes force you to bring X ISK to the table to kill them. Except that they're easier to just blob to no end.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:33:00 -
[150]
Originally by: VenutianLoVe Pith makes very valid points, Ive FC'd versus many nano gangs and my fleet was diversified as hell and we still couldnt do anything about the nano's, cause the fact of the matter is that nanos dont fight fleets unless they have the favor, they run and pick and choose their battles, which makes them that much more annoying, its all about that gorilla warfare ;( I wish dictors could drop web bubbles also that would be fun ;)
I've bolded the important part here. OMG PEOPLE DON'T ENGAGE UNLESS THEY HAVE AN ADVANTAGE!!!!!!!!
what an insight. That's not a problem with nanos, it's a sound concept. -
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:44:00 -
[151]
Cleaned.
Please stay on topic and flame free.
Any post that wishes harm on another player will be dealt with severely.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang |
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.25 03:14:00 -
[152]
i'm just glad that the moderators are gracious enough to keep 4-5 nano threads open at once so that I always have a place to go and whine.
Just to stay on topic here... NANOS ARE LIKE OVERPOWERED AND STUFF. CCP MAKE NEW MODS AND STUFF SO I CAN CATCH THEM. IF THEY DON'T DIE TO MY RAVEN THEY ARE UNBALANCED.
eve-o is a lost cause.... /me retreats to SHC -----
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:35:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Haakelen 4000 posts.
Wow. Replying to every single whine won't actually make you feel better.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:09:00 -
[154]
[Rapier, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Hakim's Modified Stasis Webifier Large Shield Extender II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I
enjoy - putting the gist back into logistics |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:24:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider [Rapier, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Hakim's Modified Stasis Webifier Large Shield Extender II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I
enjoy
Now where did I put the Hakim bin?
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Achura Angel
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:29:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Lorna Loot
MOAR THREADS!!!!!
Nobody needs to post now....seriously - nano isn't the problem, its the people that don't know how to and keep getting killed by them and complain that is a problem instead of training minnie recons...
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:38:00 -
[157]
Since nanos are all the rage it'd make sense if all races developed counters.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
deadmeet
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:50:00 -
[158]
OMG kale, can you explain me, with your suggested modification, what are the interest of the rapier and how a vagabond can win a battle ?
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Noelle Fay
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:52:00 -
[159]
Webifiers wouldn't be considered a problem if it weren't for all the nanofags and broken polycarb rigs.
But yeah.. there is a problem. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke. |
Sekse Seske
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Posted - 2008.06.25 13:11:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Sekse Seske on 25/06/2008 13:13:51
CCP WILL NOT! Do a thing concerning NANo Fitted ships because they affriad the losers will cancel subscriptions.
EVE is on its last leg. CCP sucks!
I will be canceling 3 accounts if the NANO fitting /webby issue are not resolved.
People fly nano because when you have a lot of them the only ones that die are the ones stupid enough to get tackled by huggins. Usualy though that does not happen and NANOfit is like easymode pvp you risk nothing and can never be caught by anyone unless you are just plain stupid. I have killed 400 players and only died once because of NANOfit.... I know wtf I am talking about
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Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.25 13:21:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Sekse Seske
I will be canceling 3 accounts if the NANO fitting /webby issue are not resolved.
CCP will nerf nanos! . |
Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.06.25 13:41:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Kale Kold on 25/06/2008 13:41:40
Originally by: deadmeet OMG kale, can you explain me, with your suggested modification, what are the interest of the rapier and how a vagabond can win a battle ?
Basically no one ship should be able to win a 'battle'. For example we had an istar on the gate the other night and the four of us in an Onyx (HIC) 2 drakes and a hurricane couldnt touch it. Hmmmm.... somethings overpowered.
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Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.25 13:47:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Basically no one ship should be able to win a 'battle'. For example we had an istar on the gate the other night and the four of us in an Onyx (HIC) 2 drakes and a hurricane couldnt touch it. Hmmmm.... somethings overpowered.
Couldn't catch his drones either? Ishtar with no drones = useless ship. Far from overpowered :) . |
Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:09:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 25/06/2008 14:09:07
Originally by: Xparky Couldn't catch his drones either? Ishtar with no drones = useless ship. Far from overpowered :)
As I've said elsewhere you'll have to kill 325-375m3 worth of drones, and after you wipe all them out you're not getting a ship kill unless you just happen to be in a minmatar recon (because these are counter ships, but they are only 2 of many ships that exist in the game), you throw a ridiculous amount of inties at it, or the nanoishtar pilot is a complete moron. If none of those more-or-less extreme conditions are met he runs away at at least 3 km/s.
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Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:16:00 -
[165]
... How skilled was this hurricane?
In my experience Autos can track me fine and Canes are one of the ships I am weary about. Just another ship on the list of things I cant engage in case a competent pilot is using it. (which is quite a big list btw)
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Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:19:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus
As I've said elsewhere you'll have to kill 325-375m3 worth of drones, and after you wipe all them out you're not getting a ship kill
True, but you caused ISK damage, especially if they're T2 drones. Also you've taken the Ishtar out of battle.
"Ok", you'll say, "Ishtar's a drone boat, but what about shooters ?". Well I dunno... Lower their optimal ? Screw up their tracking ? Jam them ? Dampen then Neut ? In fleets you can spare midslots (no tackle), might as well use them for some anti nano stuff. . |
Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:20:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Tankn00blicus Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 25/06/2008 14:09:07
Originally by: Xparky Couldn't catch his drones either? Ishtar with no drones = useless ship. Far from overpowered :)
As I've said elsewhere you'll have to kill 325-375m3 worth of drones, and after you wipe all them out you're not getting a ship kill unless you just happen to be in a minmatar recon (because these are counter ships, but they are only 2 of many ships that exist in the game), you throw a ridiculous amount of inties at it, or the nanoishtar pilot is a complete moron. If none of those more-or-less extreme conditions are met he runs away at at least 3 km/s.
I have 5 ogres, 5 sentries, 5 hammerheads and 5 warriors.
After my ogres are gone I have to resort to sentries, which are stationary and die pretty easily to the missile blob.
Then I am left with medium drones, if already 75% of my drone bay is dead from just a few vollies then am I going to kill anything? No.
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Bo Bojangles
Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:03:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 25/06/2008 13:41:40
Originally by: deadmeet OMG kale, can you explain me, with your suggested modification, what are the interest of the rapier and how a vagabond can win a battle ?
Basically no one ship should be able to win a 'battle'. For example we had an istar on the gate the other night and the four of us in an Onyx (HIC) 2 drakes and a hurricane couldnt touch it. Hmmmm.... somethings overpowered.
Yes, your gang was imba man. You had no fast tackle. HICs are for securing gates and Canes are for close-range hi dps. Had you traded in a one or two of those Onyx's for webbing Crows it would've spelt a welp day for the Ishtar.
A nano-Ishtar was camping our station yesterday, kiting two BS's and a Rook. My corpie and I decided to help these guys, he in his carrier across the system and me in my Stiletto. I scrammed, webbed, and fighter bombed him, and the BS's and Rook were able to finally do dps to him as well. We got him into structure before his Bouncers killed the Rook and then he was able to neut me and escape.
Rock, paper, scissors gents. The tools are available to all to counter and kill nanos, bring them with you.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:09:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Kale Kold Edited by: Kale Kold on 25/06/2008 13:41:40
Originally by: deadmeet OMG kale, can you explain me, with your suggested modification, what are the interest of the rapier and how a vagabond can win a battle ?
Basically no one ship should be able to win a 'battle'. For example we had an istar on the gate the other night and the four of us in an Onyx (HIC) 2 drakes and a hurricane couldnt touch it. Hmmmm.... somethings overpowered.
Ask your hurricane to stop using emp/hail
And fit some ambit extension rigs, they really help, also in normal combat
Ask him to load barrage.
Then this happens
This is an OBVIOUS sign of how nanos use peoples stupidity to their advantage. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Kale Kold
Caldari Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:30:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Kale Kold on 25/07/2008 17:30:51
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=574
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!
MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! THANKYOU CCP!!!
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Jaala Creed
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.07.25 18:07:00 -
[171]
For people who say they need a Huginn...
Much easier, faster and cheaper to train up an Hyena. Minmatar Electronic Attack ship.
Heavy Neuts or web drones work too.
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gtcsellalt
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Posted - 2008.07.26 04:39:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Jaala Creed For people who say they need a Huginn...
Much easier, faster and cheaper to train up an Hyena. Minmatar Electronic Attack ship.
Heavy Neuts or web drones work too.
true
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mishkof
Caldari Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.26 05:56:00 -
[173]
The one thing that is for certain with decreased speeds; we are gonna find out who forgot or never learned how to scout and use a scanner.
When I started this game your scout was your single best pilot, not the guy with the most cash. I will actually enjoy going back to those days.
I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me |
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