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Chinkies IV
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:17:00 -
[1]
I'm having issues understanding how someone can put items up at standard price or so when there's huge margins to be gained.
Yesterday, for example, a trade hub was devoid of Ballistic Control System IIs. I brought in 30-ish and put them up for 2.5m a piece (great margin, obviously). A few hours later, some guy decided to bring 100 and put them up at 1.25m. WHY? That means he gains virtually nothing (1.25m is like, Jita price). Why not just put it up at 2.4m, or maybe even 2m? They would still sell, and he'd make money.
Do some people just like crashing the good deals, or am I missing something?
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Confuzer
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:45:00 -
[2]
He probably made them himself so his margin is still good, and he wanted a quick sale? ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Valandril
Exiled. Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Valandril on 24/06/2008 07:51:03 Quanity and time saving, it's better to make 50mil in 2 hours than 100 in 5 days. If you are so sure that you will easly sell them for over 2mil, they just buy him out and resell them higher. ---
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sahalis
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Posted - 2008.06.24 07:54:00 -
[4]
In some trade hubs bcu II's are selling close to 1.0 each (Rens is 1.05 mil, Essence is 0.99 mil). This guy is a large scale reseller or manufacturer. He brings in a 100 and wants to sell them quickly for 250K profit a unit if he is reselling. He doesn't want to sit there bump his order and wait for people to decide to pay up more than 2x the price. He apparently wants to sell them quickly and has reasoned that 1.25 price is optimal for him. Whether he is right or not depends on what sort of volume he manages to sell.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.24 10:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: *****ies IV Do some people just like crashing the good deals, or am I missing something?
What you are missing is the details of the other person. I have a friend who is a pirate. He collects up loot from all the people he kills and eventually, when he decides he needs money, he uses a trade alt to dump stuff on the market. He doesn't care about maximizing his gain, he only wants to offload as quickly as possible. This is just one possibility of several. Feel free to imagine others as you decide on buying up his stock and flipping it back onto the market.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.24 12:34:00 -
[6]
There's also the matter of volume. 100 bcs is a lot more to move than 30. If he plays the 0.01 game with you (and assuming you both get equal time exposed as lowest sell order), by the time you've sold your stock of them, he's only sold 30% of his stock.
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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.24 13:56:00 -
[7]
Now you might not undercut, you might leave yours up, or something, and his will sell. Manufacturers, if he is one, probably don't want to **** around with .01ISK pricewars, so they just put the items up and leave them.
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:06:00 -
[8]
To **** you and other sellers off. It's a valid undercutting tactic, and judging by this thread, it worked. Now all he needs is for you to cry and leave the region.
Undercut him back.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:33:00 -
[9]
Quote: Why not just put it up at 2.4m, or maybe even 2m? They would still sell, and he'd make money.
Would they sell as fast? Probably not.
What would prevent you from undercutting his 2.4m? Maybe he doesn't feel like having to babysit his orders or wait for a long time to free up his funds?
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:16:00 -
[10]
So buy his 100, mark them up to 2.5, and hope he doesn't have more in stock.
Nice margin for you if they sell, and he still gets the profit he expects.
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:35:00 -
[11]
Aye, if he's selling them at Jita prices, you've just saved yourself a trip to Jita. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Mossreach
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:16:00 -
[12]
The reality probably is that he made 10% of the potential profit by investing 5 minutes in the deal, and whoever buys hims out will make 90% of the profit by investing an hour nurturing the sell order. Looked at that way, he's making a better return on his time than you are :) In real world terms, you could say he's selling wholesale and you're selling retail. |
Mazzarins Demise
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 24/06/2008 18:20:27 He's probably doing that to garner a quicker return on his investment. Even though you're making a huge margin when selling these items over the course of time, he'll probably sell them much quicker than you because of his lower price. Good for him and potentially good for you if you want to risk buying out all his stock and reselling it at a high price. I would advise against this though since he's probably expecting it and will just throw up another order hoping you buy it out quickly, netting him nice profits and one extra sell order.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:54:00 -
[14]
While all the argument about a quick sale are true, it seem that most players running for the quick sale are keeping the market depressed in the long run.
Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
Alarmist, short sighted and just plain wrong. The only unhealthy thing for the market, in Eve, is the number of people who think that the market is simply some sort of automated I win situation. LOL, I find myself getting ready to explain why higher market prices can be equally unhealthy but I realized that I'm preaching to the clueless. Far better to go pee into the wind; more feedback and, depending on how I waggle my weenie, more worthwhile interaction.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Venkul Mul While all the argument about a quick sale are true, it seem that most players running for the quick sale are keeping the market depressed in the long run.
Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
The only depressed part of the market is your perspective. Cheap goods listed on the market for a quick sale are an opportunity to make isk.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.06.25 01:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Venkul Mul While all the argument about a quick sale are true, it seem that most players running for the quick sale are keeping the market depressed in the long run.
Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
Walmart seems to do OK with this model. :) It was something like 15% of the US's GDP last year, so I don't see how that could be construed as being unhealthy for the market.
There, now that's 3 people who've flamed you. Welcome to MD.
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Lo Lightshard
Insurrection Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.06.25 02:18:00 -
[18]
The cost of inventing/building these is around 500k with decent invention skills. So, this guy (if he's a producer) makes as much as you do, makes it faster and jacked you off enough to make you post here.
It's all good, the system works. [IMA6E REMOVED] |
Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.25 06:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Venkul Mul While all the argument about a quick sale are true, it seem that most players running for the quick sale are keeping the market depressed in the long run.
Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
The people looking for a quick sale don't put up sell orders, they sell immediately to buy orders. I don't think it makes sense to talk about "healthy markets" in eve since there are no recessions in eve.
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Midas Man
Dzark Asylum
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:44:00 -
[20]
Check the Market Average, my bet is that the person massively undercutting you is selling their stock around the Market average. In my time trading I have noticed it numerous times. Some people just don't understand or don't use market history. They simply pull up the sell box and set there price to the regional average, weather this is by there own design or just stupidity is open to debate but my own thoughts are they are just too stupid to realise that regional average includes sales made to buy orders. and hence is much lower than the true sell value.
In any case if you have the money Buy them out, even if they have more stock, you know the volumes/price you can get in that Hub and this will not change much from hub to hub if you end up with more stock than you can comfortable sell in that area set a courier contract or move the goods yourself to another local sales hotspot and list them there at your normal price. profit.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Venkul Mul While all the argument about a quick sale are true, it seem that most players running for the quick sale are keeping the market depressed in the long run.
Essentially it is Wall Mart setting the price for all items. Probably unavoidable seeing the number of sellers against the number of players in EVE but not that healthy for the market.
Walmart seems to do OK with this model. :) It was something like 15% of the US's GDP last year, so I don't see how that could be construed as being unhealthy for the market.
There, now that's 3 people who've flamed you. Welcome to MD.
Already been there and as flames goo it was at worst a first level burn. Yes, the post was cut very short so it lacked a lot of arguments and explanations. Essentially it is the old problem of a lot of market players evaluating the work they do (mining/moving the stuff/getting the loot to sell/ecc.) and the time spent to do it at 0, so a low return is acceptable.
The OP history seem a pretty valid example of that (depend on a lot of factors not know by us or the OP); the modules can be brought at 1 million in in some trade hub, but the region hasn't them. So we can reasonably suppose it is pretty far from those trade hubs.
So if the underbidder was aiming for a good return from moving the modules form a hub the region, why he then has priced them so low? If he has done 30 jumps to get the items from the market to the sell stations it mean he has spent at least half an hour to do that (I am aware he could have moved several different items but then his trip would have been slower).
So for him half a hour (discounting the return trip), is worth 25 millions.
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Absimi Liard
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Posted - 2008.06.25 17:25:00 -
[22]
I constantly face this issue, from the other side.
I'm a manufacturer. I know how much it cost me to build something. So every time I bring product to market I face the pricing issue.
Do I price it high, with the other sellers, and thus make a hefty profit? If I do I will face undercutting, and my sales will be slowed by that.
Do I price it low, wayyy lower than everyone else, if I do I'll get quick sales and not face as much undercutting. But I won't get as large a profit margin.
Every time I face this decision I remind myself that I'm a manufacturer NOT a trader. I remember that time is ISK. I keep high in my mind the fact that if ISK isn't flowing I'm not making a profit at all, and that ISK in sell orders is much like ISK in the bank, it isn't making more ISK.
And every time I think about it, I price hideously low.
Show me a market where most folks are selling an item for 220k and I can build it for 120k, and I'll dump a day's production on the market at 150k. (in a hot second)
It's all about my motto, "The ISK Must Flow".
And making my opposition cry tasty tears. Markets are still PvP you know. Just because I don't pew pew doesn't mean I don't like tasty carebear tears..... (yes, I know that cannibalistic, so?)
-abs
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