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Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.27 20:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Gatu Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:37:28 Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:36:51
Originally by: Xaen
1) You steal from wreck. 2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy). 3) I warp out and come back in something nasty. 4) ???? 5) profit!
So... what happens when you get back, the wrecks are gone and so is the ninja? (Hint: it should be listed under part 4 of your "how to outsmart a ninja salvager just as soon as ccp fixes the rules" masterplan)
Edit: close quotes ftl.
So you can loot 50 wrecks from 20km to 70km away in the 90 seconds it will take me to switch ships?
I didn't think so! - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.27 20:55:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Gatu Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:37:28 Edited by: Gatu on 27/06/2008 20:36:51
Originally by: Xaen
1) You steal from wreck. 2) I get aggro rights to you (you don't get aggro rights to me - that's how it works slappy). 3) I warp out and come back in something nasty. 4) ???? 5) profit!
So... what happens when you get back, the wrecks are gone and so is the ninja? (Hint: it should be listed under part 4 of your "how to outsmart a ninja salvager just as soon as ccp fixes the rules" masterplan)
Edit: close quotes ftl.
So you can loot 50 wrecks from 20km to 70km away in the 90 seconds it will take me to switch ships?
I didn't think so!
Don't bother - It's impossible to change another's opinions or stance on a issue, or even get at least one rational, logical, and meaningful statement or admittance, when they are so addicted to being on easy street - people don't like/dread/fear change - it's like asking them to cut off one of their legs; they won't do it. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Hmm. So, let me get this right... I steal your loot, and you don't shoot me, but rather, warp out. You're thinking that I'm going to just stay within range to see what you're bringing back?
You have approximately 90 seconds to get away from the warp in point before I return. Even with a MWD destroyer you're looking at 100km tops. And there's no reason to go that far as you'll be way past any of the wrecks. So more than likely you're going to be within 50km of the warpin.
In deadspace my vagabond covers 1679m/s. How fast is your destroyer?
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Pro Tip: Check my Corp Name. I do this for a living, and I sure as hell don't make the noob moves you're accusing me of.
That's funny coming from a*****y amateur. Especially when you're accusing me of the same.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Last time I checked, Mission Runners usually fly their Missions in their version of 'something nasty'. Sure, there might be those who have a PvP ship in reserve, but most are just carebearing it up in their PvE fit ships.
Last time I checked I mission in a drake on my main, Golem on my alt. And I have several pvp ships in reserve this very moment. I don't do stupid **** like engage players in mission ships, especially a drake. In fact, the only reason I use a drake is the omgafktank that lets me aggro the whole room on purpose.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Even if you do return to omgwtfpwn my little salvaging frigate (sub-500k, btw) in your "OMG I'm so freaking Uber" ship of Doom, I'm still returning to make your life miserable.
Good, it'll be fun to fight the ship you think is so badass.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Hope you have insurance.
Hope you fit something nice for me.
Actually, I don't mission in Motsu anymore. In fact, I hardly ever mission on this character at all, excepting the ole faction grind for Minmatar. And my alt doesn't mission in motsu either.
So this is all pretty academic really.
And TBH, I would enjoy the pvp encounters resulting from aggro rights from salvage****gotry more than I would care about protecting my salvage. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:05:00 -
[64]
again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...
how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.
if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.
Originally by: Quelque Chose The Great Whine Cycle:
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. "one more spam thread will get you a warning. - Thanks Hutch. " isn't a warning of a warning a warning? or just a warning of a warning? didnt he just get 'the warning'?
my head hurts |
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:06:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...
how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.
if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.
Originally by: Quelque Chose The Great Whine Cycle:
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
FYI, he probably has a pvp ship in reserve. If you engage in your mission ship you're a freaking moron. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Xaen
And TBH, I would enjoy the pvp encounters resulting from aggro rights from salvage****gotry more than I would care about protecting my salvage.
yes. anything that promotes combat in eve is good anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
as for the above, engaging in mission ships. that a pilots call at the time whether to bug out and get a pvp ship or not. either way its silly to try and break it down to 'what ifs' and scenarios. makes as much sense as 'what if 1v1' thread.
its the principle of the matter, that i think we can agree on "one more spam thread will get you a warning. - Thanks Hutch. " isn't a warning of a warning a warning? or just a warning of a warning? didnt he just get 'the warning'?
my head hurts |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
On the contrary, sir. My idiotic response was coherent, completely logical and as concise as I could make it. I suppose I should also point out that unless you're using text- to- speech you didn't actually listen to it. You're not a subvocalizer are you?
However, please don't interrupt your fit of moral outrage just for my sake. By all means, continue. ___________________________________________
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JanoMark
smoking blunts Mutual Assured Destruction
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:23:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Xparky
Originally by: "Nathanial Victor"
If you think about it, ppl that
run missions
in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).
Fixed that for you.
This.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:28:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then? After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvaging…
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente D00M. The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:34:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 27/06/2008 21:11:03 ?
Whats up with that? If they loot a can i can pwn them. If they salvage a wreck i can't.
Is there some programing reason this isn't the same and its really hard to fix? (i'd find that hard to believe). Is it intentional?
If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).
Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?
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edit: thanks for the clarification. This thread is now about discussing the ridiculous policy that wreck and their salvage is public domain while the loot inside of them is not.
It's because you're an abject failure, a.k.a. a carebear. If you were in 0.4 or lower, you would be able to shoot them regardless of what they're doing to your wreck.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente D00M. The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nathanial Victor anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then? After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvagingą
No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Nathanial Victor anything that promotes a free ride in eve is bad.
So you're saying we should do away with missions then? After all, they offer the same risk, for higher rewards, with less work, than ninja salvagingą
No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Good bye money maker alts, good bye newbies, good bye carebears, good bye CCP solvency.
Fool. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:41:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nathanial Victor again, getting pretty off topic about presuming its better a mission runner wouldn't want kill right, discussing the flaws of ppls setups if they even HAD the kill right, blah blah...
how does this sound? salvager touches my wreck, i get kill rights, i target. one of 2 things then happens, he dies or he runs off, either way i have accomplished my goal, salvager is not stealing my stuff.
if he wants to show up for a fight over salvaging, let him. viola, we suddenly have some trace of a risk vs a reward.
Originally by: Quelque Chose The Great Whine Cycle:
what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Well you arn't making any sense - if pro-salvage thief think that kill rights wouldn't be a problem for them, and that the mission runner has the wrong/flawed setups - then theres no argument and we should all be in agreement.
We aren't in agreement however, why this is?
It's because some people are absolutely happy with no risk, all this talk and debate is just a way to talk away from the matter at hand. However, this is all really pointless anyways.
The only real way salvage mechanics might be changed is if a political party is formed and enough support gets a voice on CSM, a voice that CCP will be forced to no longer ignore.
CCP has intentionally ignored this topic for a while, and they will always do so, until it's significant enough where they will have to listen wither they like it or not. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Nathanial Victor Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 27/06/2008 21:11:03 ?
Whats up with that? If they loot a can i can pwn them. If they salvage a wreck i can't.
Is there some programing reason this isn't the same and its really hard to fix? (i'd find that hard to believe). Is it intentional?
If you think about it, ppl that nija salavge in high sec are getting reward with 0 risk... especially if they are a member of newb corp (as you cant declare war on them).
Anyone want to clear this up for me? Am i missing something?
----------
edit: thanks for the clarification. This thread is now about discussing the ridiculous policy that wreck and their salvage is public domain while the loot inside of them is not.
It's because you're an abject failure, a.k.a. a carebear. If you were in 0.4 or lower, you would be able to shoot them regardless of what they're doing to your wreck.
^^^ this
I love how people/alts defend ninja salvager's and accuse carebears as having too much money for low risk, where it turns out the guys they are defending are actually practicing the most risk-free profession in the game - even more soft than mission running.
All the yarrs should be bashing the ninja salvager's for being the bigger of rich-cowards, not as much the carebears - the carebears you can at least shoot some of the time. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:54:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2008 21:55:13
Originally by: Bellum Eternus No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Funny that. All the ninja salvagers I've come across have been in PC corps…
Also, what would it solve, seing as how ninja salvaging isn't a problem?
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Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.27 21:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Bellum Eternus No. After 60 days, kick players out of the NPC noob corps and into an NPC holding corp that is able to be war decced. Problem solved.
Funny that. All the ninja salvagers I've come across have been in PC corpsą
I've noticed this too. That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then... ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.27 22:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Amastat That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then...
So quite soon™ then?
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Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.27 22:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Amastat That would be a cool thing to have, but cow's will fly before then...
So quite soonÖ then?
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Aphoticus
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Posted - 2008.06.27 23:05:00 -
[79]
Um...aside from the debate, has anyone concidered why the OP is not salvaging while engaged in combat?
I always have my tractor beams going; I got junk flying all around me as I battle and salvage it while on the go.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.27 23:45:00 -
[80]
cause u cant tractor and salvage from 40+ km maybe? you can approach the wrecks yes, but 1. bs speed is not much 2. high slots = weapons to break bs tanks 3. it totally frags up tactical positioing ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.28 08:12:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Chi Quan cause u cant tractor and salvage from 40+ km maybe? you can approach the wrecks yes, but 1. bs speed is not much
Fit an AB? Quote: 2. high slots = weapons to break bs tanks
Mission BS tanks can be broken with four medium weapons. Quote: 3. it totally frags up tactical positioing
It's a mission. The NPC are dumb as nails. They'll come to you and sit at the same distance no matter what your positioning is.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.28 08:43:00 -
[82]
FFS CCP needs to SORT OUT THEIR SEARCH FUNCTION OR BAN PEOPLE FOR MAKING THREADS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.28 08:48:00 -
[83]
I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time. ------
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.06.28 09:02:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Patch86 I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time.
You mean, like this:
Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecksą. This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you wonĘt always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesnĘt matter who just blew it up.
I've even got it here in "ready to paste" BB format.
------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.28 09:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Patch86 I really wish someone on CCP would say something useful like "there aren't supposed to be ownership rights on salvage" that I could just copy paste in to these threads. Honest to go, I'm losing the will to actually post a sensible argument for the billionth time.
You mean, like this:
Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecksą. This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you wonĘt always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesnĘt matter who just blew it up.
I've even got it here in "ready to paste" BB format.
Totally saved... ------
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Taritura
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Posted - 2008.06.28 10:08:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Taritura on 28/06/2008 10:10:37 This mechanic is totaly f...... If i steal your old car and leave the radio on street "concord" won't do anything.... This is sick. Let's say you are fisher. You catch some fish and someone steals them from you. "Ok there were dead meet,junk that any one can take ..... " Or better i wreck my car and any one .... What next maybe can "salvaging"... .
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.28 10:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Taritura This mechanic is totaly f...... If i steal your old car and leave the radio on street "concord" won't do anything.... This is sick. Let's say you are fisher. You catch some fish and someone steals them from you. "Ok there were dead meet,junk that any one can take ..... "
Except that your comparisons are way off.
They're not stealing your old car – they're collecting ash tray lids from burnt-out wrecks. They're not taking the fish you just pulled up – they're collecting the left-over bones. |
Tenebrion Darkness
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.28 11:20:00 -
[88]
CCP introduces salvage. In the begining, a wreck with loot would've needed to be empited before it could be salvaged, thus flaging potential ninja salvagers. Mission runners whined about how their holds were filling up with crap loot, when all they wanted was the salvage.
CCP than changes the mechanic to what we have now. At no time did wrecks ever belong to the pilot that poped them, however a mechanic was in place to discourage others salvaging "your" wrecks (note, empty wrecks have always been open season). So, if you'd like to blame anyone, blame mission runners.
I've never had a problem with ninja salvagers, than again I try and keep to low populated systems. Also, "in theory", one of the reasoning for the change was to increase the amnt of salvage circulating, in an attempt to bring down rig prices. |
Khanto Thor
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.28 11:36:00 -
[89]
I don't really see what the problem is, think of all the other wrecks you can salvage.
I often leave wrecks behind as I do not have a salvager fitted. These wrecks should be free for anyone to salvage, they should not be worried that they will get aggressed by salvaging them! |
Taritura
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Posted - 2008.06.28 11:42:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Tenebrion Darkness ... So, if you'd like to blame anyone, blame mission runners.
You must be kidding me. I should blame myself for salvage ninja... I f.. me when i hit some bs, for an hour and a sneaky little frigate witch no conseqences salvages my hard worked loot for nothing... I'm quiting eve for some time.. 1. Salvage rules are.. CCP must be insane... 2. Lags... Saila umokka... It realy nervs when you wait 2 minutes for lanchers to shoot ... 3. GTC 60d ... Is the only way to make players leave the game so others wouldn't have lags.. Yea you finaly made it i'm quiting.. less lags for others .. "To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings" You whant ot simplify make 1 ship per race .. That would be simple ..... Bye all
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