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Headmaster Lurch
Amarr L.U.R.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:30:00 -
[1]
This is a request for public investment capital. The people: Mephie - MissionRunner, Industrialist, Commandship pilot Dallas23 - MissionRunner, Haulerpilot Dr Agoraphobic - Mephie's alt, MissionRunner, Research, Haulerpilot
Yes, we're NPC corp carebears. We've sent Meph's and D23's full access API key to Shar to verify that we don't look like alts ourselves.
The plan: 1. Use public and private funds to purchase GTCs for a small(5 character) harem of miners. 2. Corp will be run by a character on one of our personal accounts, will be a one man corp. Miners will remain in NPC corp. 3. Use miners to mine ore while leveraging main characters' skills (MiningDir4, WarfareLinkSpec5, Command ships, perfect refine, jetcan haulers) for additional profit. 4. We plan to pay ourselves (the 2 of us) 15% (7.5% each) from every mining op. The remaining 85% will go to increase NAV and eventually pay dividends. 5. We will be operating with a projected NAV of 13bil, which will cover timecodes, skills, ships, and implants. Until we reach this value, there will be no dividends, and all mining op cash will go to corp, and we will pay ourselves from the leftover sharepile. 6. At the expiration of the plan, slated at one year, we will sell the harem, liquidate assets and buyback all shares at whatever NAV happens to be. Example: Starting w/13,000 of shares at 1mil each (13bil), if liquidating assets nets us 17bil, we will buy back shares at 1.3mil.
Dividends: Since we require approximately 12bil for 5 years of timecards (400m per 60 day GTC * 5 toons * 6 GTCs per toon), and the extra bil should cover ships, skills, and implants. We will not be paying dividends until this goal has been reached. Once we reach this goal, all cash over 1bil (rainy day fund) will be used to pay monthly dividends. Payment schedule (day of month) will be announced when we reach our 13bil goal. If we can procure GTCs for less than 400m on avg, then this excess will go to paying dividends.
We will host a shareholder mailing list to communicate with our shareholders on our progress.
Failed Launch Contingency: We need at least 4-5bil to get started (4 months of GTCs). If there does not seem to be enough interest in this plan, then any and all moneys sent to us for shares will be refunded.
Personnel Disclaimer: This should go without saying here in MD, but here goes: Eve-O investments require trust and faith. If you dont trust us, dont give us your money, it's not going to hurt our feelings. There are two of us, but we are often in the same car, so there is the possibility that we could both be 'hit by a bus'. Since we both know where each other live, and have been friends for over 10 years, either one of us scamming the other is not going to happen. We also dont forsee ourselves burning out and jumping ship to some other MMO. Nothing in the works currently tweaks our interest in the slightest, and we on occasion will take 2-4 day breaks to play other non-MMO games. We're here for the long haul, and both have skillplans in Evemon in excess of a year and a half.
Headmaster Lurch
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Headmaster Lurch
Amarr L.U.R.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:31:00 -
[2]
reserved
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Mephie
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:33:00 -
[3]
verifying that I am attached to this project and have reserved 700mil in shares for myself. --Mephie
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Dallas23
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:35:00 -
[4]
I'm attached to this and reserving 400mil in shares. D23
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Dr Agoraphobic
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:36:00 -
[5]
I am Meph's alt. --Agora
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:41:00 -
[6]
Confirming that I have API keys and performing audit. (Give it a day or so please.)
Reserved Spot for Audit Report and any other pertinent matters.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Zanphear
United EVE Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Headmaster Lurch
6. At the expiration of the plan, slated at one year, we will sell the harem, liquidate assets and buyback all shares at whatever NAV happens to be. Example: Starting w/13,000 of shares at 1mil each (13bil), if liquidating assets nets us 17bil, we will buy back shares at 1.3mil.
Does this also mean that if you fail to rais 13 bill in one year via mining the buyback will be less then the original investment ?
Example: starting w/13,000 of shares at 1 mill each (13bil), if liquidating assets nets us 6.5 bil, we will buy back shares at 0.5mil. ?
Maybe Im looking at this more in the respect that it would be a bond, but if you really plan to buyback the shares in one year time, do you have any plan on calculations to show that you could acctually pull it off to make 13 billion isk NAV, plus paying dividends and taking 15% of the total profit to your selfs ?
Also on a second note, how much do you plan on paying in dividends, you say you will take 15% for your self and put 85% towards the corp total NAV.
How much of the total corp NAV will be paid in dividends and how often ? or did you have any other plan on paying :)
Hope Im not beeing to annoing :)
Zanphear
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Mephie
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zanphear
Does this also mean that if you fail to rais 13 bill in one year via mining the buyback will be less then the original investment ?
Example: starting w/13,000 of shares at 1 mill each (13bil), if liquidating assets nets us 6.5 bil, we will buy back shares at 0.5mil. ?
If the character market tanks that badly, yes. We're including the 5 miner characters in the NAV.
Originally by: Zanphear
Maybe Im looking at this more in the respect that it would be a bond, but if you really plan to buyback the shares in one year time, do you have any plan on calculations to show that you could acctually pull it off to make 13 billion isk NAV, plus paying dividends and taking 15% of the total profit to your selfs ?
Also on a second note, how much do you plan on paying in dividends, you say you will take 15% for your self and put 85% towards the corp total NAV.
How much of the total corp NAV will be paid in dividends and how often ? or did you have any other plan on paying :)
Hope Im not beeing to annoing :)
Zanphear
Well after we cover the GTCs and the 1bil RainyDayFund, 85% of however much we can mine in a month without destroying our sanity will go to pay dividends. our current plan is a few hours every other day, and periodic long ops. Also, with the character setups and skill plan we've chosen, we can have our miners in Retrievers w/T1 Strips in about 14days. So if there is enough interest in the IPO, it's possible we could have light dividends starting first month.
--Mephie
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:07:00 -
[9]
Riskiest investment opportunity I've seen since I started reading MD forums 5 months ago.
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Frenden Dax
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:08:00 -
[10]
This looks slightly questionable. I'm not accusing you of attempting to scam, but rather stating that not paying dividends to shareholders while taking a cut of the profits for yourselves is dodgy business. I also note that since you apparently plan to be doing nothing but mining for a year, the risk of burnout is massive.
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Zanphear
United EVE Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zanphear on 02/07/2008 23:18:08 Like thouse 2 above said this seems very risky and dodgy,
You seem very outfront on what your plan is, so if you dont mind could you give us some numbers to look at, then I mean some calculations or estimate profit numbers for the mining per month, the skill list the mining chars will have after the year so we have the total skill points and aprox value of them.
if you plan on paying the full 85% in dividends and then buyback shares in one years time then the total NAV at the end of the year will simply be thouse 5 characters and how well their auction goes ?
so to make back what the initial investment was each char has to be worth atleast 2.6 billion isk
and to make this investment acctually worth something Im guessing a 5% a month return ?, this is where Im new here comes in since I dont acctually know much on what is a good intrest rate, but Im assuming it has to be better then just having your isk in a bank so Im guessing somewhere around 5 - 10%
that means you HAVE to make ATLEAST 765 million a month to make this investment make decent return for the investors, and thats only a 5% a month return
So please, tell me how you plan on doing that :)
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Letias
Caldari Poofdinkles
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:18:00 -
[12]
13b for 5 miners seems ridiculous care to break down what exactly will cost so much?
The way i see it, 5 hulks 700 mill with fittings, skills maybe 100 mill each each char time codes 350/60d so 700 mill for two of those would be enough to get you hulked up and able to buy your own so 940 mill call it 1 bill per char.. 5 bill whats the other 8 for? _____________________________
Originally by: Damini Frostmane Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)
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Chaos Wraith
Rubra Libertas Militia R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Headmaster Lurch
Dividends: Since we require approximately 12bil for 5 years of timecards (400m per 60 day GTC * 5 toons * 6 GTCs per toon), and the extra bil should cover ships, skills, and implants. We will not be paying dividends until this goal has been reached. Once we reach this goal, all cash over 1bil (rainy day fund) will be used to pay monthly dividends. Payment schedule (day of month) will be announced when we reach our 13bil goal. If we can procure GTCs for less than 400m on avg, then this excess will go to paying dividends.
What are the guarantees that you're gonna generate profit for the investors, not just reach your goal, slow down and just generate enough isk for yourself? I would prefer the case where you payed a set percentage every month... Also what is gonna stop you from lying to the investors? What are you projected profits? It should be relatively easy to calculate. Something like: time_online_pre_week * isk_per_hour / 2...
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Finedele
Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Finedele on 02/07/2008 23:25:33 Most Carebears i know go insane after less than 1 months of pure mining. so i expect this to falter not much later than maybe 5-6 months, always carrying on with the ipo in mind.
maybe i am not correct, but i am sure you'll iluminate, you want to raise as many funds you can get, skill up some chars and go mining like crazy. as soon as you reach 13 billion isk to cover up all gtcs, ships, imps and skills, you start to pay out dividends?
so tell me, how many billions do you think can you aquire per week/month of only 50 or less percent of the 13 billions were raised? when do you think can we actually EARN something back instead having it in the biggest toilet i saw here in recent times waiting to be flushed down? any shemes how much isk you can make first, second etc month? what do you think which returns can we expect?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:22:00 -
[15]
If I read this correctly (yell at me if I am wrong):
1. You plan on raising 13B in cash and then 2. Pay NO dividends for a year 3. Repurchase the shares at whatever the NAV is at the time.
Now the plan is out of the way, I can make some assumptions to calculate how you will make the money.
1. You mine in Hulks - jetcan mining 2. You mine in high sec 3. Max earnings per hr in high sec is about 6.5-9.0 M ISK per character (lets say 7.0M ISK) 4. To just earn your money back you will need to mine for 1857 hours 5. That is 154 hrs per month 6. 30 hrs per character per month
Now if you took out a loan on the 13B at 8% per month with no capital pay down, you would owe about 25B in total.
more calcs....
7. That works out to 3640 hrs of mining 8. 303 hrs per month 9. 60 hrs per character per month
As an investor I would like to see divs of a 5.6% per month, my expected return at 1 year would be 21.736B
more calcs...
10. 3105 hrs of mining 11. 258 hrs per month 12. 51.6 hrs per month of mining per character.
Questions
1. Can you confirm that each character will mine for 51 hrs per month? 2. A lot of work, wouldn't you agree? 3. Do you really want to spend 13 hrs a week mining? 4. Why as an unkown should you get 13B in which looks like an excercise in pain and suffering?
In my opinion you are aiming to high. It would be easier to simply mine for the GTC's.
1 GTC = 400m for 60 days 1 GTC = 200m per month 1 GTC = 30hrs per month in high sec
A lot less than your choice above.
Why not take out a small loan/bond for under 1 billion to buy the ships and skills and earn the ISk that way.
In fact if you want to mine I would be happy for you to mine for me, as I need a bucket load of minerals on a weekly basis.
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Zanphear
United EVE Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zanphear Edited by: Zanphear on 02/07/2008 23:18:08 Like thouse 2 above said this seems very risky and dodgy,
You seem very outfront on what your plan is, so if you dont mind could you give us some numbers to look at, then I mean some calculations or estimate profit numbers for the mining per month, the skill list the mining chars will have after the year so we have the total skill points and aprox value of them.
if you plan on paying the full 85% in dividends and then buyback shares in one years time then the total NAV at the end of the year will simply be thouse 5 characters and how well their auction goes ?
so to make back what the initial investment was each char has to be worth atleast 2.6 billion isk
and to make this investment acctually worth something Im guessing a 5% a month return ?, this is where Im new here comes in since I dont acctually know much on what is a good intrest rate, but Im assuming it has to be better then just having your isk in a bank so Im guessing somewhere around 5 - 10%
that means you HAVE to make ATLEAST 765 million a month to make this investment make decent return for the investors, and thats only a 5% a month return
So please, tell me how you plan on doing that :)
Oh and I forgot to mention, with "only" making the investors 5% a month with gettin in 765 mill isk a month via mining, which to me seems rather impossible with only 5 mining chars unless you plan on sucking on arkon and bistot 23/7 that would only gain you about 57 mill a month.. or a round 700 million after the full year, whats to stop you running away with all the isk since your making such a tiny ammount of profit once its time to buy back the shares ?
whats to stop you to run of with the massive initial investment of 13 billion when your only looking at making such a tiny ammount :) ?
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Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:51:00 -
[17]
How will your earnings be affected by your characters being singled out and specifically targeted by jihadswarm?
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Athre
Minmatar The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:57:00 -
[18]
suggest you mine in Metro or Heimetar ;) Goons dont want to fly to Minnie land.
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Ava Santiago
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.03 00:12:00 -
[19]
It is not clear where the hauler comes into the picture. Is the mining formen going to be doing the hauling? Or is your prospectus missing a GTC cost for a dedicated hauler? Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts. |
Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.03 07:44:00 -
[20]
This offering seems incredibly poorly thought out on a number of levels. You need profit projections, you need contingency plans as the investors recieve nothing for a year and the chance of burnout is high. You also need a breakdown of what the 13 bil will be used for as it seems ludircously high for what you are proposing. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.07.03 08:58:00 -
[21]
I'm quite surprised that Shar even agreed to do an audit. Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.03 09:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau How will your earnings be affected by your characters being singled out and specifically targeted by jihadswarm?
I am sorry but I laugh when I read that line. By the by I though Jihadswarm had slowed down/stop I dont much hear about them attacking hulks.
PS no need to single me out I dont mine much.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm quite surprised that Shar even agreed to do an audit.
These gentlemen applied to Ricdic (ebank I guess) for auditing services and was directed to me. I was not privy to the specifics of the IPO, though I would have preferred to be privy as it would improve my ability to asses, nor have I allowed myself to form an opinion on this IPO (as of yet). Equally, there has been no discussion of any fee for me doing this audit either. So, when one is completed I'm sure that the other will be as well.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:31:00 -
[24]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 03/07/2008 10:31:33
Most Carebears i know go insane after less than 1 months of pure mining. so i expect this to falter not much later than maybe 5-6 months, always carrying on with the ipo in mind.
Just what the lady said. Scamming these days requires more effort than what the OP served us.
Motherships |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm quite surprised that Shar even agreed to do an audit.
These gentlemen applied to Ricdic (ebank I guess) for auditing services and was directed to me. I was not privy to the specifics of the IPO, though I would have preferred to be privy as it would improve my ability to asses, nor have I allowed myself to form an opinion on this IPO (as of yet). Equally, there has been no discussion of any fee for me doing this audit either. So, when one is completed I'm sure that the other will be as well.
Looking forward to it Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:57:00 -
[26]
Audit Complete. In case anyone wonders, I used Rafabot to download, and thus review, these api's: /char/AccountBalance.xml.aspx /char/AssetList.xml.aspx /char/CharacterSheet.xml.aspx /char/IndustryJobs.xml.aspx /char/Killlog.xml.aspx /char/MarketOrders.xml.aspx /char/SkillInTraining.xml.aspx /char/WalletJournal.xml.aspx /char/WalletTransactions.xml.aspx I did not bother with any of the corporate api's as both of these accounts had no characters in a player corporation. I also didn't bother with a fee and I'm not in a position at the moment to consider investing in this IPO. (This is not an opinion on the IPO - I'm refraining from giving one.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
jna
Caldari Black Ash Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:41:00 -
[27]
Edited by: jna on 03/07/2008 11:45:18 I know Mephie, Dallas and Dr A pretty darn well (we're all members of the SAK veterans channel), and both Mephie and Dallas were co-referees with me in the highly successful SAK cruiser tournament (which had over 370 pilots participating, and paid out over 3B isk in prize money). It was also covered extensively by ISD.
So I'd definitely put this - from personal knowledge of the guys involved - in the "not a scam" category. You might still choose to describe this IPO as 'risky' in terms of the lack of a concrete dividend structure and the lack of exact information about the proposal (the 1B isk rainy-day fund), but I know it's not a dodgy scam-attempt (or "scrungy", which seems to be MD-word-of-the-month).
Personally I'd like to see a much more solid dividend plan in this IPO, that is unaffected by whether you raise 4B, 5B or 12B. From a purely selfish perspective I'd recommend a reissue at the minimum you require (say 4B), with a dividend payout plan starting from the end of Month 1 - in which case I'll take the whole offering (if you don't mind a single investor), or if you're really keen to run it as a public company then I'd happily go splits with another person/other people.
Once it's up-and-running, and returning dividends to the shareholders with 4B of investment you can always expand as necessary, starting from a basis of trust and track-record with the public (beyond the personal one you have with me).
And, you guys! Ya should have run this by me before posting in the shark-infested waters of MD
Edit: superfluous comma ------------------------------------------------- Caeleste naves interretis res gravissimas sunt |
Mephie
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:44:00 -
[28]
Awesome, now this is a bloodthirsty mob that I've come to love from MD lurking.
Now I dont know why my transaction history only goes back 90 days, I just installed EMMA the other day and was wondering about that myself.
Originally by: Shar Tegral
In closing, the only thing troubling to my mind is that there is obviously a third, maybe fourth, account involved in this. That there is another account involved that the API key was not disclosed always brings a down check on any audit.
Sorry, I would be more than happy to hand you DrAgora's API key if you wish.
Originally by: Letias
The way i see it, 5 hulks 700 mill with fittings, skills maybe 100 mill each each char time codes 350/60d so 700 mill for two of those would be enough to get you hulked up and able to buy your own so 940 mill call it 1 bill per char.. 5 bill whats the other 8 for?
So we dont burn out early. If we had to start with 2 months of GTCs and try to make our first 2 bil in 2 months, that's asking for burnout and possibly a tri-state killing spree. We want to get the GTCs covered before (or at least 4 months worth) so we can simply make our selves a schedule and get it done.
Originally by: cosmoray
1. You plan on raising 13B in cash and then 2. Pay NO dividends for a year 3. Repurchase the shares at whatever the NAV is at the time.
No, we dont pay divs until we have all the gtcs paid for (or enough money in the coffers).
Originally by: Ava Santiago
It is not clear where the hauler comes into the picture. Is the mining formen going to be doing the hauling? Or is your prospectus missing a GTC cost for a dedicated hauler?
No, I'm the Foreman, and DrA and D23 will haul. These 3 accounts will be paid by us, from our own pocket.
Now for the numbers, let me get some more coffee in me, eat some breakfast, and put together a proper xls. --Meph
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Sophie Daigneau
Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.03 12:04:00 -
[29]
This is just a crazy idea, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Is there any reason why you can't mine first, then start paying for the GTC's yourself without needing an IPO?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:26:00 -
[30]
Just read Shar's audit.
Question:
If you own a Golem and have good PVE skills, why don't you grind lvl 4's in high sec. They earn more per hr than high sec mining?
Also, I would still like the confirmation that to mine your way through this IPO you need to mine 50-60 hours a month to give a 6% ROI for investors as the IPO stands. With more than 1 character to handle it is very intensive mining. These figures are assuming 5 hulk miners.
If there are 4 miners then it 60-70 hours a month.
Are you willing to mine that much???
Not bloody likely!!
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