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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.09 15:46:00 -
[271]
Let's end it. CCP should face this thread. -
DesuSigs |
Hertzsprung Russel
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Posted - 2008.07.09 15:53:00 -
[272]
Just got ganked today
Picture
It never happened to me before
extract from the KM :
2008.07.09 14:19:00 Victim: Hertzsprung Russel Corp: New Horizons Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Fenrir System: Uedama Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 126058
Involved parties: Alliance: Against ALL Authorities Ship #1 : Typhoon Ship #2 : Raven Ship #3 : Raven Ship #4 : Raven Ship #5 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #7 : Raven Ship #8 : Capsule Ship #9 : Raven Ship #10: Raven
Destroyed items:
Cerberus, Qty: 13 (Cargo) Basilisk, Qty: 6 (Cargo)
Dropped items:
Deimos, Qty: 47 (Cargo)
I have no problem with that 10 T1 fitted BS destroyed my freighter, ok, I'd say good job AAA
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis. So if the same peeps do kill another freigther again, and again and again, after how many attacks will I have the right to petition it under the "harassment" section ???
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.09 16:04:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis. So if the same peeps do kill another freigther again, and again and again, after how many attacks will I have the right to petition it under the "harassment" section ???
Never. It's not harassment.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.09 16:05:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Nicho Void on 09/07/2008 16:05:23
Originally by: Crumplecorn Let's end it. CCP should face this thread.
Let's thread it. CCP should face this end?
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:52:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel Ship #1 : Typhoon Ship #2 : Raven Ship #3 : Raven Ship #4 : Raven Ship #5 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #7 : Raven Ship #8 : Capsule Ship #9 : Raven Ship #10: Raven
Destroyed items:
Cerberus, Qty: 13 (Cargo) Basilisk, Qty: 6 (Cargo)
Dropped items:
Deimos, Qty: 47 (Cargo)[/i]
But of course (according to so many here) this is all YOUR fault for not warping to zero or bringing or whatever whatever whatever.
Would any of those things have helped here, in your opinion?
Oh, and as to risk vs. reward, the folks in question lost ten T1 fit BBs, undoubtedly insured. They picked up 47 Deimos, each of which costs 1.5 to 2 times as much as one of those BBs.
Total losses - if those BBs were fitted with rat loot gained from grinding their sec status back up, effectively zero. We could perhaps figure in the cost of insurance but if we do then it would probably be fair to figure in the effect of the ratting to get the modules and the security status back up, meaning that before Concord fired a shot the op was running in the black.
Oh, and they got 47 Deimos too. That'll fund some PVP ops for awhile.
Ganking like this is awfully lucrative.
Perhaps the answer is for the economic drivers to stop making warships or contributing to the economy? May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:18:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Easier way to go about it is to have someone fly an alt to each gate on the route ahead of time and shoot something to draw Concord, noob ships works, disposable alts works. Lame, hell yeah!
Ther are FAR FAR FAR to many people in this thread who dont understnand suicide ganking and still piping in
1) The noob ship would be popped by the sentrys and no concord would spawn
2) assuming one concord spawn did magically arrive - then the one spawn would not effect the freighter gankers. They would simply have to bring along 1 or 2 more bs and still get the freighter popped - irrespective of the one conrd spawn
SKUNK
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Phintaiss
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:52:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Phintaiss on 09/07/2008 20:52:52 I'm going to have to agree with this one. Suicide ganking is exploiting the game. Why have wardecs, or even Concord for that matter if this is going to continue. There's no real penality, but the rewards are many.
Turning cans and other such pirate type tactics is one thing, but, suicide ganking is quite another altogether.
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:56:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Phintaiss Edited by: Phintaiss on 09/07/2008 20:52:52 I'm going to have to agree with this one. Suicide ganking is exploiting the game. Why have wardecs, or even Concord for that matter if this is going to continue. There's no real penality, but the rewards are many.
Turning cans and other such pirate type tactics is one thing, but, suicide ganking is quite another altogether.
Who are you agreeing with? Almost everyone, and definately including CCP, agrees that suicide ganking is a valid play style using valid game mechanics.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Phintaiss
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:06:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Phintaiss Edited by: Phintaiss on 09/07/2008 20:52:52 I'm going to have to agree with this one. Suicide ganking is exploiting the game. Why have wardecs, or even Concord for that matter if this is going to continue. There's no real penality, but the rewards are many.
Turning cans and other such pirate type tactics is one thing, but, suicide ganking is quite another altogether.
Who are you agreeing with? Almost everyone, and definately including CCP, agrees that suicide ganking is a valid play style using valid game mechanics.
If CCP does agree with it, show me the quote from CCP. This is the kind of crap that causes people to quit this game. It's money out of CCP's pocket. Hell, while were at it, lets all get a macro miner. At least you'll be getting your money's worth.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:09:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Nicho Void Edited by: Nicho Void on 09/07/2008 16:05:23
Originally by: Crumplecorn Let's end it. CCP should face this thread.
Let's thread it. CCP should face this end?
Let's face CCP. It should end this thread. -
DesuSigs |
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:10:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Ki An on 09/07/2008 21:10:12
Originally by: Phintaiss
If CCP does agree with it, show me the quote from CCP. This is the kind of crap that causes people to quit this game. It's money out of CCP's pocket. Hell, while were at it, lets all get a macro miner. At least you'll be getting your money's worth.
Linkage for ya, bud. Take special note of this line:
"This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space."
Wonder if Malcanis beat me to it.
Edit: He didn't \o/
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Phintaiss
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:53:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 09/07/2008 21:10:12
Originally by: Phintaiss
If CCP does agree with it, show me the quote from CCP. This is the kind of crap that causes people to quit this game. It's money out of CCP's pocket. Hell, while were at it, lets all get a macro miner. At least you'll be getting your money's worth.
Very good, they do have a rule. But........The game has grown far beyoud the original intent. I've been in this game for a couple of years, and I belive like everything else that becomes a problem for the majority, it needs to be nerfed like everything else they nerf.
It has become an exploit of the original intent of this game. Ships are more powerful, mods and scripts are better, and it's alot easier than it used to be.
It's beyond any reasonable balance in the game, and that's what CCP is said to be trying to accomplish.
2 years ago, 17k players online was a busy day, now it's double that.
Game Balance. Hell, it won't be long and this will be just another "ace's high" mmo. Maybe it's already evolved to that.
Linkage for ya, bud. Take special note of this line:
"This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space."
Wonder if Malcanis beat me to it.
Edit: He didn't \o/
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:58:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Phintaiss Very good, they do have a rule. But........The game has grown far beyoud the original intent. I've been in this game for a couple of years, and I belive like everything else that becomes a problem for the majority, it needs to be nerfed like everything else they nerf.
It has become an exploit of the original intent of this game. Ships are more powerful, mods and scripts are better, and it's alot easier than it used to be.
It's beyond any reasonable balance in the game, and that's what CCP is said to be trying to accomplish.
2 years ago, 17k players online was a busy day, now it's double that.
Game Balance. Hell, it won't be long and this will be just another "ace's high" mmo. Maybe it's already evolved to that.
Seriously, if you don't like it you have the option to quit. You asked me to provide proof of CCP's positive stance on suicide ganking. I did so. Now you're just second guessing CCP, and you're not doing a good job of it.
You don't like suicide ganking, that's been noted. Unfortunately for you, many people do like it, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 22:02:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel Ship #1 : Typhoon Ship #2 : Raven Ship #3 : Raven Ship #4 : Raven Ship #5 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #6 : Raven Ship #7 : Raven Ship #8 : Capsule Ship #9 : Raven Ship #10: Raven
Destroyed items:
Cerberus, Qty: 13 (Cargo) Basilisk, Qty: 6 (Cargo)
Dropped items:
Deimos, Qty: 47 (Cargo)[/i]
But of course (according to so many here) this is all YOUR fault for not warping to zero or bringing or whatever whatever whatever.
Would any of those things have helped here, in your opinion?
Oh, and as to risk vs. reward, the folks in question lost ten T1 fit BBs, undoubtedly insured. They picked up 47 Deimos, each of which costs 1.5 to 2 times as much as one of those BBs.
Total losses - if those BBs were fitted with rat loot gained from grinding their sec status back up, effectively zero. We could perhaps figure in the cost of insurance but if we do then it would probably be fair to figure in the effect of the ratting to get the modules and the security status back up, meaning that before Concord fired a shot the op was running in the black.
Oh, and they got 47 Deimos too. That'll fund some PVP ops for awhile.
Ganking like this is awfully lucrative.
Perhaps the answer is for the economic drivers to stop making warships or contributing to the economy?
Good - gives the smaller haulers a bit of a chance to make some profit without being muscled out by the multi alt freighter pilots
SKUNK
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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 22:11:00 -
[285]
Hey, guys, I don't like the fact that I can't kill BoB solo , please change the game so I can. if not I will quit, with my 5 chars.
I AM NOT HAPPY CCP
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:04:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 09/07/2008 11:43:13
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: CetusOfAsuran what is this web to warp thing? are you saying that by using a stasis webifier on a ship it makes it jump to warp quicker?
Also while i am being dump i hear of the cloak-warp trick a bit is that where you cloak use mwd then decloak?
Yeah the idea his that you hit warp when you're at 75% of max speed. Web II reduces your max speed by 90%, so you wait until the freighter is at 7.5% of max speed then web him: instawarp.
That is providing the freighter is aligned. Freighters have this amazing ability to come out of cloak facing in the opposite direction to their target gate. Since the speed of turn of a freighter is not dependant on it's forward velocity, webbing will not make it turn any faster. Therefore you still have >30 seconds of alignment time before it warps.
As for getting an alt to summon Concord before they reach the gate, all I can answer to that is two words: LOGIN TRAP. A suicide gankers favourite weapon.
Spoken like someone who has no idea wtf hes talking about.
All ships, after jumping through the gate, counts as aligned by the game. Your actual facing does not matter because the game doesnt store your alignment data. This means all you need to do is initiate warp(in any ship) and then have someone web you with a 90% webber, and you will warp instantly(again in any ship).
If you had been on a single freighter op you would know this. But as usual people like to spout random crap.
Logon trap would do nothing. Because you would warp as fast as your webber in an inty/hyena/rapier can web you, which is pretty damn fast(2-3 seconds).
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:06:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/07/2008 23:06:34
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Easier way to go about it is to have someone fly an alt to each gate on the route ahead of time and shoot something to draw Concord, noob ships works, disposable alts works. Lame, hell yeah!
Ther are FAR FAR FAR to many people in this thread who dont understnand suicide ganking and still piping in
1) The noob ship would be popped by the sentrys and no concord would spawn
2) assuming one concord spawn did magically arrive - then the one spawn would not effect the freighter gankers. They would simply have to bring along 1 or 2 more bs and still get the freighter popped - irrespective of the one conrd spawn
SKUNK
First of all, you cant just magically summon more ships, you only use the BC suicider as a last resort AFTER you had already jumped into a camp.
Secondly, one concord spawn will easilly negate the damage from 5-10 bs. They switch targets immediately after popping their primary and they will neut/ecm/kill their target in about 2 seconds. You would need at least 5-10 more BS to assure a gank. 99% of camps do not have 5-10 additional bs sitting by waiting.
Not to mention there's a very good chance your webber can lock and web you before any of the gankers can.
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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:08:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/07/2008 23:06:34
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Easier way to go about it is to have someone fly an alt to each gate on the route ahead of time and shoot something to draw Concord, noob ships works, disposable alts works. Lame, hell yeah!
Ther are FAR FAR FAR to many people in this thread who dont understnand suicide ganking and still piping in
1) The noob ship would be popped by the sentrys and no concord would spawn
2) assuming one concord spawn did magically arrive - then the one spawn would not effect the freighter gankers. They would simply have to bring along 1 or 2 more bs and still get the freighter popped - irrespective of the one conrd spawn
SKUNK
First of all, you cant just magically summon more ships, you only use the BC suicider as a last resort AFTER you had already jumped into a camp.
Secondly, one concord spawn will easilly negate the damage from 5-10 bs. They switch targets immediately after popping their primary and they will neut/ecm/kill their target in about 2 seconds. You would need at least 5-10 more BS to assure a gank. 99% of camps do not have 5-10 additional bs sitting by waiting.
Not to mention there's a very good chance your webber can lock and web you before any of the gankers can.
Have you tried this? We have, works a charm.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:43:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/07/2008 23:06:34
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Easier way to go about it is to have someone fly an alt to each gate on the route ahead of time and shoot something to draw Concord, noob ships works, disposable alts works. Lame, hell yeah!
Ther are FAR FAR FAR to many people in this thread who dont understnand suicide ganking and still piping in
1) The noob ship would be popped by the sentrys and no concord would spawn
2) assuming one concord spawn did magically arrive - then the one spawn would not effect the freighter gankers. They would simply have to bring along 1 or 2 more bs and still get the freighter popped - irrespective of the one conrd spawn
SKUNK
First of all, you cant just magically summon more ships, you only use the BC suicider as a last resort AFTER you had already jumped into a camp.
Secondly, one concord spawn will easilly negate the damage from 5-10 bs. They switch targets immediately after popping their primary and they will neut/ecm/kill their target in about 2 seconds. You would need at least 5-10 more BS to assure a gank. 99% of camps do not have 5-10 additional bs sitting by waiting.
Not to mention there's a very good chance your webber can lock and web you before any of the gankers can.
1) You clearly said "NOOB SHIPS WORK" - this (as i pointed out) is incorrect - as the noob ship is instapopped by sentries and therfore would not summon a concord spawn.
That was the first glaring error in your post
2) The one concord spawn from your sacrificial BS lamb, would ONLY NEGATE ONE GANKER BATTLESHIP (or two if you are playing it safe)
Certainly not 5 - as you maintain. How do I know? Because I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
SKUNK
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:53:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Secondly, one concord spawn will easilly negate the damage from 5-10 bs. They switch targets immediately after popping their primary and they will neut/ecm/kill their target in about 2 seconds. You would need at least 5-10 more BS to assure a gank. 99% of camps do not have 5-10 additional bs sitting by waiting.
lol
As I have tested thison TQ I can DEFINATLY without a shadow of doubt say you are wrong. It will negate 1 or 2, not 5-10bs.....
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JoDan Troikian
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:55:00 -
[291]
Originally by: JoDan Troikian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like to add something to this discussion. I have been suicide ganked once. It was a huge loss, and something that I have never forgotten. I like the ideas that are being bandied around. No insurance payout for suicide attackers..no brainer there. Trading of kill rights, might not be as a good idea as people think, but worth exploring. I think we are forgetting one easy solution to this. The heart of any suicide gank team is an expendable frig with cargo scanners fitted, floating off of Jita 4-4, or whereever. Why is that when you engage the cargo scanner, it is not an aggresive action? TBH, I have never understood in the two years of playing this game, that if you locked someone, it was not worth of return fire. So, I think that if I'm in a belt, undocking in Jita, etc..and you scan me...you get a message stating that you will be conkordded. Just a thought, flame away. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aggro in return for scaning is OK. CONCORDING:- NO!
I think you are missing what I am saying. This thread has degenerated along several lines...when i posted it was in reference to "how can we stop it, without making alot of changes, etc" line. I agree that if someone locks you, that by all means, resolve it yourself. Stay with me here...I'm saying, without changing alot of things to the code, etc, etc...how can we help slow it down...?? If they changed it to making cargo scanners an aggresive act, and worth of a concord response, then how fast would we see an end or a signifcant drop off in freighters getting popped? I'm not saying that it would stop, but how fast does it take to get the report back after you press the button? 1 sec, maybe 2? How fast does it take for Concorde to respond? varies...this of course would mean just more ships to scan, but.....if you know that pressing the F4 to scan means that your ass is going to get popped..it would take more time to calculate the report of what's being carried, all the while the freighter, hopefully is aligning, redocking, etc..
not saying it will stop it, but suicide gankers pick and choose their targets based on intel, not on instinct.
For the love of god, if you want to kill someone for looking at you, that's fine but man up and do it yourself.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:57:00 -
[292]
Pitiful how a supposed EVE powerhouse spend their time suiciding on the inside, don't they have better and more rewarding things to do? If not then yes something is truly broken and needs changing.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:01:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis.
The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind. ___________________________________________
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:01:00 -
[294]
As i said - this thread is full of idiots who
1) Have never had someone try to suicide gank them 2) Have never suicide ganked anyone
They should all STFU and post about something they do know.
SKUNK
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:03:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Le Skunk As i said - this thread is full of idiots who
1) Have never had someone try to suicide gank them 2) Have never suicide ganked anyone
They should all STFU and post about something they do know.
SKUNK
No you. Suiciders don't want their easy shit taken away and more than a few who have gotten suicided on has quit the game and a few more is too embarassed to admit they got had. I've not been suicided on, then again I avoid Jita and Uedama like the plague.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:05:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis.
The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.
Precisly - So this character has been hauling and profiting on a "daily basis" sucking in oddles of isk into his wallet.
Whilst I feel sorry for his loss - He was happy to take the plus side of the freighter (afk hauling of large amounts of ship for easy profit) but not the flip side.
Im sorry that freighters are not riskless afk isk printing machines
SKUNK
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:07:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis.
The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.
Precisly - So this character has been hauling and profiting on a "daily basis" sucking in oddles of isk into his wallet.
Whilst I feel sorry for his loss - He was happy to take the plus side of the freighter (afk hauling of large amounts of ship for easy profit) but not the flip side.
Im sorry that freighters are not riskless afk isk printing machines
SKUNK
Who said he made oddles of isk and that he was afk, you're making baseless assumptions.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:08:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Le Skunk As i said - this thread is full of idiots who
1) Have never had someone try to suicide gank them 2) Have never suicide ganked anyone
They should all STFU and post about something they do know.
SKUNK
No you. Suiciders don't want their easy shit taken away and more than a few who have gotten suicided on has quit the game and a few more is too embarassed to admit they got had. I've not been suicided on, then again I avoid Jita and Uedama like the plague.
So you've:
not been suicided, have never suicided, don't understand the mechanics
Yet you think your opinion should count for something?
Seriously go and post in a thread about the Swahili tennis league or something your equally qualified to debate on.
SKUNK
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.07.10 00:12:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Le Skunk As i said - this thread is full of idiots who
1) Have never had someone try to suicide gank them 2) Have never suicide ganked anyone
They should all STFU and post about something they do know.
SKUNK
No you. Suiciders don't want their easy shit taken away and more than a few who have gotten suicided on has quit the game and a few more is too embarassed to admit they got had. I've not been suicided on, then again I avoid Jita and Uedama like the plague.
So you've:
not been suicided, have never suicided, don't understand the mechanics
Yet you think your opinion should count for something?
Seriously go and post in a thread about the Swahili tennis league or something your equally qualified to debate on.
SKUNK
Again with the moron assumptions, who said anything about having to do something to understand the mechanics of it? I know how to build a bomb, have I, have I been bombed? Stop posting, save yourself from further humiliation.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.10 01:06:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Le Skunk
1) You clearly said "NOOB SHIPS WORK" - this (as i pointed out) is incorrect - as the noob ship is instapopped by sentries and therfore would not summon a concord spawn.
That was the first glaring error in your post
2) The one concord spawn from your sacrificial BS lamb, would ONLY NEGATE ONE GANKER BATTLESHIP (or two if you are playing it safe)
Certainly not 5 EXTRA CERTAINLY not 10 (as you ludicrously post) - as you maintain. How do I know? Because I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
SKUNK
edit: I seem to remember a post about a failed freighter gank in JITA by BOB - perhaps that squads amaetuerness by BOB 'elite' pilots has made you think its difficult to do?
1. You need your glasses checked, where did I say use a noobship? I said to use a tanked BC.
2. I've probably suicide ganked more than your entire corp when I was in tri. Unless the mechanics changed, its quite easy to avoid being ganked in a freighter.
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