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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 01:08:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Le Skunk
1) You clearly said "NOOB SHIPS WORK" - this (as i pointed out) is incorrect - as the noob ship is instapopped by sentries and therfore would not summon a concord spawn.
That was the first glaring error in your post
2) The one concord spawn from your sacrificial BS lamb, would ONLY NEGATE ONE GANKER BATTLESHIP (or two if you are playing it safe)
Certainly not 5 EXTRA CERTAINLY not 10 (as you ludicrously post) - as you maintain. How do I know? Because I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
SKUNK
edit: I seem to remember a post about a failed freighter gank in JITA by BOB - perhaps that squads amaetuerness by BOB 'elite' pilots has made you think its difficult to do?
1. You need your glasses checked, where did I say use a noobship? I said to use a tanked BC.
2. I've probably suicide ganked more than your entire corp when I was in tri. Unless the mechanics changed, its quite easy to avoid being ganked in a freighter.
lololol. No.
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:13:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 10/07/2008 09:13:25
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Hertzsprung Russel
Problem is that I haul that kind of stuff on a daily basis.
The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.
Precisly - So this character has been hauling and profiting on a "daily basis" sucking in oddles of isk into his wallet.
Whilst I feel sorry for his loss - He was happy to take the plus side of the freighter (afk hauling of large amounts of ship for easy profit) but not the flip side.
Im sorry that freighters are not riskless afk isk printing machines
SKUNK
Dear guys,
My mate hauls the hundreds of T2 ships that our corp produces, yes. But you are wrong and unfair considering that this is "easy" or "riskless" profits.
We managed to develop a strong industry in EVE afters years of dedication and thinking. Our corp bought all his T2 bpos and is still inventing a lot of bpcs.
You are wrong considering that EVE is only pvp. The industry in EVE is something really unique and its makes thousands of players stick to the game just because producing and trading is fun. To the ones who call indy chars "Carebears" I answer that we don't risk some crappy ships in pvp but tens of billions in trades and speculations regularly. We lost some T2 cruisers in an attack in a 0.5 place, so what ? It's just a scratch to our wallet tbfh, no need to whine about it.
To Quelque Chose : stick that in your mind : no brain = no money To Le Skunk : Freighters are not printing machines, industry is not easy profit, as long as you don't know where the stuff/isks of someones comes from, don't post silly shortcuts
Now : is high-sec freighter ganking is a threat for us ? No, we already found a way to deal with that Would high-sec ganking make weakier players and indutrials renounce to play EVE ? Yes imo
Something should be changed into the game mechanics, I don't know what, I agree that high-sec piracy must be permitted, but not if it kills the good reputation of EVE and disgust newcomers.
Lara Dantreb CEO of New Horizons
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:28:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Quelque Chose on 10/07/2008 09:34:56
Originally by: Lara Dantreb To Quelque Chose : stick that in your mind : no brain = no money
Well today that's worked itself out hasn't it? After all, that's pretty much just a low- rent way of saying "a fool and his money are soon parted."
It's obvious that your logistics scheme has a crapton of flaws in it so I'm going to offer you two hints free of charge:
1. Your product can't get sploded if it never leaves the station until after you've sold it.
2. You know what's a really hard ship to gank in high sec? A covops.
I'll let you chew on that and see if you can't figure out where you went wrong today. ___________________________________________
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:47:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 10/07/2008 09:47:22
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Lara Dantreb To Quelque Chose : stick that in your mind : no brain = no money
Well today that's worked itself out hasn't it? It's obvious that your logistics scheme has a crapton of flaws in it so I'm going to offer you two hints free of charge: 1. Your product can't get sploded if it never leaves the station until after you've sold it. 2. You know what's a really hard ship to gank in high sec? A covops. I'll let you chew on that and see if you can't figure out where you went wrong today.
Our logistic scheme is fine : we lost one freighter after thousands of freighter moves. It's a very good stat
Do you know that your clever advices makes you look so smart, please keep posting such superior thoughs
lol
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Chaos Breeze
HellCorp Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 12:04:00 -
[305]
Ican tell that theres only a handfull of people in this thread who actually knows how suiciding works, suiciders dont risk anything...??!!?? its just getting into a bs, shoot, profit its sooo easy money in 5 mins.... NOT!!!! try it and then tell me you make isk fast, cause there is no isk sink in failing ganks or loot not dropping it takes a shit load of time to actually setup and find a target fyi some mission runners get stalked for days before they go pop, sometimes do to crappy scanners or players who actually knows what they are doing
Theres a ton off ways to avoid being ganked many have been posted in this thread, and some...... your afk sorry.... AFK traffic is like coming across a house in RL with open doors and a note "Gone on vacation from this date to this date" you want the police to stand and guard your house beacuse off your own stupidity
since your all talking about risk vs. rewards, what risks did you all take buying deadspace equipment in jita? what risks did you take mining in high sec and producing stuff in high sec? NONE , we the suicide gankers are the risk deal whit it. no this is not inteded towards 0.0 alliances as they apparently know how to get their billons around.
you wanna go around flashing your goods and not being killed and looted? go play Guild Wars or something
If you change the insurance on concorded ships then i want private contracts to show so i can see whos the real hauler of a bought item.... no?.... why? seems only fair , make it harder for me to gank someone, and make it harder for you to haul items that you did nothing but shoot some rats in some dead 0.0 system for 3 days to get isk for.
NOTE: i have been suicided and now i am suiciding ...full circle and the guys who ganked me is actually the guys i fly with today.....
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
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Posted - 2008.07.10 12:12:00 -
[306]
Edited by: d026 on 10/07/2008 12:15:50
imho suicide ganking is fine and it should stay in game. what i have a problem with is how luctrative it is to do it on a regular basis. remove insurance payout for agressors in high sec and everythign is fine. suiciding would still be an option but only if the target is really worth the isk.
ps i have "suicided" if poping haulers in 0.0 or lowsec and then getting jumped by a fleet counts as that:D
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Inmuxis
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Posted - 2008.07.10 12:27:00 -
[307]
Originally by: d026 ... remove insurance payout for agressors in high sec and everythign is fine. suiciding would still be an option but only if the target is really worth the isk ...
Thats It. Fast, easy and helpful. ;)
This will make ganking not abailable to 'everyone', and will cut off the problem.
Saludos!!
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:04:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Inmuxis
Thats It. Fast, easy and helpful. ;)
This will make ganking not abailable to 'everyone', and will cut off the problem.
Saludos!!
Oh **** it! I'm done arguing with imbecilles who don't know how to play the game, nor what's in their best interest. Now I'll support CCP making this change just to hear the cacaphony of whines when all the consequences of it becomes readily apparent to the whinebears of the community. What a glorious day that will be!
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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The Wounded
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:12:00 -
[309]
STOP BEING TOO LAZY TO DO MULTIPLE JUMPS
really ur only ganked if its worth it. just make sure ur not worth it.
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:18:00 -
[310]
Remove insuarnces. You'll see alot of Stealth bombers about, 5m Per roll.
Increase the Sec hit? : You'll see Istabed BS's flown by flashy -10 Pirates warping into the gank site half a sec before the hauler melts. (tricky but possible, as we have done it for shits and giggles)
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Sorted
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:19:00 -
[311]
Originally by: The Wounded STOP BEING TOO LAZY TO DO MULTIPLE JUMPS
this is what it boils down to realy. Decrease gank risk. If they want to risk it and run 5Billion in one go fine. but it is a risk. want to play it safe? multi runs.
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Terry Zen
Qermi Innovations
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:30:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Terry Zen on 10/07/2008 13:35:34 The major problem imo is that freighters cant be tanked or anything. The freighter pilot can do nothing and thats the problem nothing against a suicide gank. You need a certain amount of people and its done doesnt matter if autopiloting or not, doesnt matter if youre the best pilot in eve or the worst.
If that would be fixed suicide ganking would be fine.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:48:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Terry Zen The major problem imo is that freighters cant be tanked or anything. The freighter pilot can do nothing and thats the problem nothing against a suicide gank. You need a certain amount of people and its done doesnt matter if autopiloting or not, doesnt matter if youre the best pilot in eve or the worst.
The problem seems to be that people consider freighters to be soloable riskfree isk printing machines and gets ****ed off when they after 5000 problemfree runs find out its not 100% safe only close to 100%.
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The TX
Gallente Earth Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:50:00 -
[314]
****Posting in an epic thread****
Suicide ganking is within the game mechanics. Toughen your ship up and stop whining, FFS.
Oh, and STAY THE **** OUT OF JITA!!!!
-------------------- [Signature]
[/Signature]
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hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:52:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Terry Zen Edited by: Terry Zen on 10/07/2008 13:35:34 The major problem imo is that freighters cant be tanked or anything. The freighter pilot can do nothing and thats the problem nothing against a suicide gank. You need a certain amount of people and its done doesnt matter if autopiloting or not, doesnt matter if youre the best pilot in eve or the worst.
If that would be fixed suicide ganking would be fine.
Slave set will give you an Armour boost? No?
You can get implants that increase your hull HP.
Have a corpmate to web you, to get out quicker?
Have a corpmate escort you in a logistics ship to remote rep you?
Oh look, i have successfully survived a suicide gank.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:23:00 -
[316]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 10/07/2008 14:24:30
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
We managed to develop a strong industry in EVE afters years of dedication and thinking.
Now : is high-sec freighter ganking is a threat for us ? No, we already found a way to deal with that Would high-sec ganking make weakier players and indutrials renounce to play EVE ? Yes imo
Firstly - respect to you for the reasonable attitude regarding your loss.
I would suggest that, to the contrary to your point though,that the more 'industrial' powerhouses like youself (t2 bpos, big wallets, massive production lines etc) that suffer, the more chances the lone traders, and the new guys will have in the game to profit.
Presently, they cannot compete with people like yourselves who are already well enough established to shrug off a 6 billion loss.
Freighter ganking provides opportunities for the little man. The little man safely and sensibly hauling one or two ships and turning a small profit. Freighter ganking is in fact increasing the player base (14k to 40k in 2 years) and putting more money into CCPS pockets. I applaud freighter ganking in this context.
The ways to avoid a ganking are there for you to use, and have been discussed many times. I suggest people use them.
SKUNK
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:23:00 -
[317]
Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 10/07/2008 16:25:58 Anyway only time will tell if suicide ganking has a positive or a negative influence on the amount of active subscribers. (I like when ccp makes $$$ because they deserve it)
Nevertheless, the quantity of posts around this subject reminds me when everyone (including large alliances) were whining because Privateers were dec'ing tens of corporations and alliances. We both know how this ended.
edit : a large part of noobs lurks at freighters, tell them that they'll need a full support fleet to do trading
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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:30:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
Anyway only time will tell if suicide ganking has a positive or a negative influence on the amount of active subscribers. (I like when ccp makes $$$ because they deserve it)
Well, time has passed... about 5 years actually... and subscribers have increased in numbers. I guess you have your answer.
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
Nevertheless, the quantity of posts around this subject reminds me when everyone (including large alliances) were whining because Privateers were dec'ing tens of corporations and alliances. We both know how this ended.
Yep, this is a very likely outcome of this.
Originally by: Lara Dantreb
edit : a large part of noobs lurks at freighters, tell them that they'll need a full support fleet to do trading
They don't. They can trade in smaller ships. When they get up to freighters they are no longer noobs, and ought to have aquired a few friends along the way.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.18 20:53:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Empyre i say nerf suicide ganking. how realistic is it for a person to... blah blah
May I assume that you also want CONCORD to be more realistic as well? realistic response times, realistic response level, realistic fits, finite numbers, etc.
If so, cool, let's discuss more realistic scenarios.
Or would it be more realistic to say that you just want non-consensual PvP removed from hi-sec?
i think its more realistic to say that your A.D.D. had you replace the fitting responses to your inquiry with "blah blah."
i'll tell you what, make as many assumptions you want but let me do my own expression of opinion. in return, i'll pretend that i don't realize you're just trying to get a rise out of me.
You're doing it wrong. |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.18 20:58:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Inmuxis
Thats It. Fast, easy and helpful. ;)
This will make ganking not abailable to 'everyone', and will cut off the problem.
Saludos!!
Oh **** it! I'm done arguing with imbecilles who don't know how to play the game, nor what's in their best interest. Now I'll support CCP making this change just to hear the cacaphony of whines when all the consequences of it becomes readily apparent to the whinebears of the community. What a glorious day that will be!
Yeah man. I'm laying in beer and popcorn for the flood of "Waaah there's no profit left in manufacturing, people are selling at negative margin" threads.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.18 21:03:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Empyre i say nerf suicide ganking. how realistic is it for a person to... blah blah
May I assume that you also want CONCORD to be more realistic as well? realistic response times, realistic response level, realistic fits, finite numbers, etc.
If so, cool, let's discuss more realistic scenarios.
Or would it be more realistic to say that you just want non-consensual PvP removed from hi-sec?
i think its more realistic to say that your A.D.D. had you replace the fitting responses to your inquiry with "blah blah."
i'll tell you what, make as many assumptions you want but let me do my own expression of opinion. in return, i'll pretend that i don't realize you're just trying to get a rise out of me.
It's hard to avoid making assumptions when you won't answer a straight question.
Do you think that realistic insurance and legal sanctions sould be balanced be realistic concord response times and levels?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.18 21:40:00 -
[322]
I've been suicide ganked. IMHO, aside from the fact that insurances giving more money than ship cost has driven the "fat target" threshold a bit too low, suicide ganking is fine... ------------------------------------------
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:04:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Malcanis It's hard to avoid making assumptions when you won't answer a straight question.
Do you think that realistic insurance and legal sanctions sould be balanced be realistic concord response times and levels?
Fine, I'll play your silly little grammatically challenged game.
Yes, they should. But first I want you to go out and run a quick survey of concord response times. Be sure to emphasize details, as they are important. Such things that should be considered are:
Fuel Logistics Fleet Maintenance and Upkeep Retention level of experienced ship commanders and crews Unrest/War forcing weapons on-load facilities to shut down Current budget income and expenses
I think you get the idea. Let's get this ASAP so we can answer that important question of yours.
Or we could simply say that someone has to draw the line somewhere, that CCP are the only ones that are going to do this and that you are just as much of a suicide fanboi as I dislike it and agree to disagree.
PS. The "level of realism" that I refer to has obvious limitations in a video game. I don't expect anything is real about an almost immediate concord response every time just as much as I don't expect a pilot to return 30 minutes later in a new ship after they committed ship suicide with their last one. If this crap happened in real life, most of these pirate pansies would be dead by now instead of hiding behind their computers and cheetos bags while harassing folks in this manner repeatedly.
Unless outer space is like Richmond, CA.. then all bets are off. Concord wouldn't even bother responding.
You're doing it wrong. |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:09:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Malcanis It's hard to avoid making assumptions when you won't answer a straight question.
Do you think that realistic insurance and legal sanctions sould be balanced be realistic concord response times and levels?
Fine, I'll play your silly little grammatically challenged game.
Yes, they should. But first I want you to go out and run a quick survey of concord response times. Be sure to emphasize details, as they are important. Such things that should be considered are:
Fuel Logistics Fleet Maintenance and Upkeep Retention level of experienced ship commanders and crews Unrest/War forcing weapons on-load facilities to shut down Current budget income and expenses
I think you get the idea. Let's get this ASAP so we can answer that important question of yours.
Or we could simply say that someone has to draw the line somewhere, that CCP are the only ones that are going to do this and that you are just as much of a suicide fanboi as I dislike it and agree to disagree.
PS. The "level of realism" that I refer to has obvious limitations in a video game. I don't expect anything is real about an almost immediate concord response every time just as much as I don't expect a pilot to return 30 minutes later in a new ship after they committed ship suicide with their last one. If this crap happened in real life, most of these pirate pansies would be dead by now instead of hiding behind their computers and cheetos bags while harassing folks in this manner repeatedly.
Unless outer space is like Richmond, CA.. then all bets are off. Concord wouldn't even bother responding.
So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:14:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Empyre The "level of realism" that I refer to has obvious limitations in a video game.
Originally by: Empyre The "level of realism" in a video game.
Originally by: Empyre a video game.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Sikander 2
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:33:00 -
[326]
Originally by: hall monitor
Originally by: Lorna Loot Can I have the stuff that didnt go pop?
hahahahahahahaha... I mean no. I'm trying to make a point here. OK by your's and other's rationale, it's ok to have jolly green giant-shaped ships. It's would be perfectly ok to have things happen which WOULD NEVER HAPPEN in any feasible reality including the sci-fi universe of EVE.
Some cowboy/girl mozey's into high sec and shoots a ship...ok I can see that happening; but then him or his buddies get to loot the wreck right under the noses of Concord? Are we supposed to believe that would happen? You punch a cop and then send your uncle to take his wallet?
The answer to this is...yes, it would happen. The people of eve lost their home world, everything when the wormhole closed, and now they will do anything. Remember - this isn't like real life - its a game. Even in real life this can happen. So, yes, in the game, it can - its legal and fair, so deal with it by avoiding it.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:33:00 -
[327]
Edited by: baltec1 on 18/07/2008 22:34:20 All this threadnought has done is make me want to go kill things in my battle badger.
Suiciding is always going to happen in eve. The trick is doing something the suicider doesnt expect. The worst thing that can happen to a ganker in high sec is for a badger to get a jam cycle on it and laugh as concord rip the attacker apart.
Equaly fun is a badger geting a point on a bantam that thought it was a good idea to raid its can of ore and slowly pick it apart.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:55:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Ki An So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
i was thinking more in the way of logic, but choose your own adventure..
You're doing it wrong. |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:59:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Ki An So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
i was thinking more in the way of logic, but choose your own adventure..
So it's logical to apply realism to the degree of voiding insurance, or even to the degree of removing suicide ganks, but it is illogical to apply it to the degree of slow, lazy and incompetent cops who you are able to run away from?
Which means, basically, that Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you. Gotcha.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar AA Mining
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:08:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Ki An So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
i was thinking more in the way of logic, but choose your own adventure..
So it's logical to apply realism to the degree of voiding insurance, or even to the degree of removing suicide ganks, but it is illogical to apply it to the degree of slow, lazy and incompetent cops who you are able to run away from?
Which means, basically, that Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you. Gotcha.
Nope it's determined by the developers, not you
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