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Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:10:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
Nope it's determined by the developers, not you
You found your way all the way here, Ashen? I'd have thought clicking several links in a row might have been too hard for ya.
Good going, sport!
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Xelios Xarxes
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:21:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Serenity Steele This issue was raised by the Council of Stellar Management at the first CSM meeting on 19th June, together with a set of solutions. CCP are aware of it.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:23:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Ashen Angel
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Ki An So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
i was thinking more in the way of logic, but choose your own adventure..
So it's logical to apply realism to the degree of voiding insurance, or even to the degree of removing suicide ganks, but it is illogical to apply it to the degree of slow, lazy and incompetent cops who you are able to run away from?
Which means, basically, that Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you. Gotcha.
Nope it's determined by the developers, not you
I also do believe its not the developers "lobbying" for change by starting multi alt whine threads again and again and again and again.... etc
No its whining "pvp flaggers" who KEEP bringing up real life "logical points" (its obvious innit!) about real life insurance yet then totally disapear from the thread when Ki Ann carries this logic to its obvious conclusion.
SKUNK
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:47:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Empyre on 19/07/2008 00:48:13
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Ki An So basically, Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you?
i was thinking more in the way of logic, but choose your own adventure..
So it's logical to apply realism to the degree of voiding insurance, or even to the degree of removing suicide ganks, but it is illogical to apply it to the degree of slow, lazy and incompetent cops who you are able to run away from?
Which means, basically, that Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you. Gotcha.
wow, i said all that? hold on.. <elevator music> ..didn't think so. which means, basically, that you've got a thing for making assumptions like that last troll in this thread. (not to be confused by the next troll, which will come inevitably)
PS I remember that one time, when you tried to troll me before.. ah, good times, good times.
Originally by: Le Skunk No its whining "pvp flaggers" who KEEP bringing up real life "logical points" (its obvious innit!) about real life insurance yet then totally disapear from the thread when Ki Ann carries this logic to its obvious conclusion.
SKUNK
Look quick Ki! You've got your first fan boi!
You're doing it wrong. |
Likche
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:56:00 -
[335]
"Suicide Ganking" is not suicidal. So when you're doing your little "is this realistic?" debates, quit acting like it is.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:58:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Likche "Suicide Ganking" is not suicidal. So when you're doing your little "is this realistic?" debates, quit acting like it is.
can we get a gold star sticker for captain obvious here?
You're doing it wrong. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.19 02:52:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Likche "Suicide Ganking" is not suicidal. So when you're doing your little "is this realistic?" debates, quit acting like it is.
can we get a gold star sticker for captain obvious here?
How much did you lose when you got suicided BTW i cant be arsed to scroll back through the thread?
SKUNK
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Zurrar
Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.07.19 02:58:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Empyre The "level of realism" that I refer to has obvious limitations in a video game.
Originally by: Empyre The "level of realism" in a video game.
Originally by: Empyre a video game.
i like you
seriously, if you want to be 100% safe wow or hellokittyonline is for you
Originally by: Malcanis CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
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Modrethen
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:05:00 -
[339]
I think that if a ship is destroyed in non concensual p v p in high sec the first that shoots should not get their insurance back.
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Ana Borisovna
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:17:00 -
[340]
There's a very easy fix: insurance should not cover losses inflicted by Concord. It's not irrational that an insurance policy wouldn't cover losses caused by law enforcement. If that were changed, suicide ganking would be more balanced. It would still happen for really juicy targets, but the cost/benefit analysis would be more even.
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Karu Manara
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:44:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
So instead of finding another game more to your liking, you want to change this one so it suits you.
I like Eve how it is, thank you.
Jim, exactly what is it you do in-game? Because obviously you're spending way more time on the forums than not.
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LittleTerror
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:19:00 -
[342]
Edited by: LittleTerror on 19/07/2008 07:20:47 This games gonna get ruined like every other game gets ruined because people are dumb ***** |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:42:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Empyre Edited by: Empyre on 19/07/2008 00:48:13
Originally by: Ki An
So it's logical to apply realism to the degree of voiding insurance, or even to the degree of removing suicide ganks, but it is illogical to apply it to the degree of slow, lazy and incompetent cops who you are able to run away from?
Which means, basically, that Eve should have realism to a degree determined by you. Gotcha.
wow, i said all that? hold on.. <elevator music> ..didn't think so. which means, basically, that you've got a thing for making assumptions like that last troll in this thread. (not to be confused by the next troll, which will come inevitably)
PS I remember that one time, when you tried to troll me before.. ah, good times, good times.
How come you don't just answer the question? There would be no need for me to troll you if you could just give a straight answer. Why is it logical to apply a degree of realism to the point where you think it's enough, but illogical to apply a degree of realism to a point further down the line?
Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Le Skunk No its whining "pvp flaggers" who KEEP bringing up real life "logical points" (its obvious innit!) about real life insurance yet then totally disapear from the thread when Ki Ann carries this logic to its obvious conclusion.
SKUNK
Look quick Ki! You've got your first fan boi!
Hardly. Just answer the question, troll.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:09:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Empyre troll troll troll
You're fond of that word, I notice. Let's see if you can do better.
I'm asking you 2 straight questions here. They should be easy to answer, since a "yes" or "no" will do fine for both:
Do you think Insurance in EvE should work as it does in real life, specifically with respect to what circumstances merit payment?
Do you think that more "real life" insurance conditions should also be balanced with more "real life" CONCORD response times and levels?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.19 13:59:00 -
[345]
Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 19/07/2008 14:02:03 I wish we had a pvp culture in eve like in 04/05 where people did not cry about this sort of stuff, but rather would use this sort of thing to gank pirates. . .you know. . .attract PvP?
People are getting soft. This is a ruthless pvp game, not a miner/mail-man space game. Market pvp is one thing, but high sec hauling should have people looking to take advantage of lone, rich haulers. Just like the Caldari vid from way back. . .too many people these days trying to pacify eve - and CCP letting it get softer is breaking my black heart. ----
GO BLUE!! |
Kulat
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:24:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Kulat on 19/07/2008 14:25:33 Haven't bothered reading through all of this , I'm guessing some people want game mechanics changed because there lazy and not very bright , If your cargo is valuable .... 1. Dont travel afk ( oh yes its boring and means effort welcome to a taste of life in 0.0 ) 2. Have you seem what a t2 hauler can tank properly fitted? omg ... 3. Afk will get you killed this isn't a economy Sim you know .... 4. Gota move a freighters worth of stuff ? cant help you but i guess like the endless meddling in game mechanics pvpers have had to put up with for years and years now you'll have to find a way to adapt to the current climate rather than just cry here for the Dev's to make the game easier for you . A thought would be to make yourself an unprofitable target somehow , maybe you should be less greedy .
Edit : Oh by the way for gods sake this ISNT real life .
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:02:00 -
[347]
BLOCKQUOTE font class=quote size=9px face= Verdana img src= /images/icon_quote_message.gif border= 0 b Originally by: /b i Le Skunk /i hr height=1 noshade How much did you lose when you got suicided BTW i cant be arsed to scroll back through the thread? br br SKUNK br br EDIT: Just occured to me that in two rapid posts in succession you berate a poster for making assumptions and then flip 360 and mock the next one for stating the obvious . br br [pvp flag OFF [wude word filter "ONYou're doing it wrong. |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:27:00 -
[348]
Edited by: Ki An on 19/07/2008 16:27:28
Originally by: Empyre jibberish
Can you please fail more? I don't think this messed up post is quite fail enough.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:30:00 -
[349]
The fact that you typed about 500 words to avoid asking 2 perfectly straightforward and relevent questions is answer enough.
You know perfectly well that what you're advocating is illogical, unbalanced and inconsistent, and we know it too. Calling Ki An and me trolls and babbling your babble won't change that.
Still, do it a few more times if you like. Who knows: you might get a little closer to convincing yourself.
Welp time to log back in. You have fun never knowing when you'll get suicide ganked; I'll have fun knowing I'll never get suicide ganked.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Carnelian X
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:38:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Empyre
1) never been suicided, tyvm. you won't find either freighter alt of mine, either. you see, i'm careful.. but i still don't agree suicide ganking is anything 2) more than people with an inferiority complex that lack creativity.
2) btw, your second paragraph makes crap for sense. how does 'making assumptions' = 'stating the obvious'? while you can make an assumption that states the obvious, the assumption itself does not necessarily dictate that that which is stated is obvious. and thats just one example of the contrast between the two points. try harder.
OH ITS SO TERRIBLY VULGAR
1) Most suicide gankers are doing it to make isk. As a method of making isk you complain it "lacks creativity". I would argue that in the "creative stakes" it at least matches:
clicking on asteroids and occasionally dragging ore into a can. Lowering market sale prices by 0.01 isk every 10 mins Running the same mission again and again semi afk whilst reading the breakfast news
Whilst some suicide ganking involves merely sitting on a gate and brute force scanning anything that comes past. OR killing anything in a hulk for the hell of it... Other ganks involves weeks of research, following movement patterns, and hours of dull stalking of the target.
____________________________ UNCREATIVTY MOMMIES BOYS
You then trot out the old "sucide gankers suffer inferiority complexs, they live in their grandmas basement etcetcetcetc"
Whilst I realise you are trying to be all scatching and witty. I will point out the incredibly hypocracy you AGAIN indulge in when you then carry on in the same post to criticise someone for doing the same thing
Quote: " my brevity in response to your last post i figured would indicate to you that your input is not very valuable and you were just repeating others. i didn't want to be so direct about it, but since you can't even respond to me without practically plagiarizing posters within 5 posts of yours, i'm not going to take you seriously."
So we should not take you seriously?
____________________________ ITS THE LOGICAL INNIT?
2) In terms of the "realism" you grasp hold on so tightly as a justification for nerfing suicide ganking you show incredibly and breathtaking double standards in criticizing concords response to suicide ganking as unrealistic, and then brushing off as totaly inconsequential any other point about realism in the game.
I personally think its unrealistic that you can run a mission in jita - and fly out to fight a horde of -10 sansha rats who open fire on you- without concord or the navies lifting a finger. If a player -10 char flys to jita however - he gets chased around and concorded if he fires.
Why do mission runner kill the same "public enemy number" time and time again. Why do insurance companies pay out to the 0.0 pilot who flys into a warzone. Why do they pay to self destructed ships. Why do asteroids grow etcetcetc
However, I realize it is a game, and it would be impossible to run missions in high sec if you didn't suspend a slice of disbelief in the universe.
ITs a game, and certain "unrealistic" events and mechanics are in the game for players to use if they wish for the purposes of making the game fun and interesting.
Your arguments in this thread have twisted round themselves to such a point that you are contradicitng yourself from one post to the next.
I believe you have a "gut feeling" that suicide ganking is wrong and should be nerfed, but cannot really come up with a solid reason why this should be so. As such, your defense of the idea, has fallen lacking in the face of people criticizing you from different angles.
SKUNK (posting on an alt)
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Bodhisattvas
Wife BEATERS
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:09:00 -
[351]
It ****es peeps off
Carry on.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:27:00 -
[352]
The cost of a battleship + Insurance is higher than the insurance payout.
Don't look straight at the "Payout: 100 million" and think "OMGZ INSURANCE IZZ PROFITZ". Look at the 30 million isk cost to insure.
90 mil + 30 mil - 100 mil for the insurance payout =... *drumroll...* You still lose 20 million. Plus modules.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:05:00 -
[353]
wow. what amazes me most about situations like these, is how quickly the defensiveness of some folks can turn into complete delusional regard to what is written.
i guess what i'm trying to say is, since i've stated at least once that this was my opinion, that i'm touched you 3 or 4 so far here would start rolling out the proverbial army of reasoning to support your own.
it makes me realize i'm on the right track.
You're doing it wrong. |
Ki An
Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.07.19 21:42:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Empyre wow. what amazes me most about situations like these, is how quickly the defensiveness of some folks can turn into complete delusional regard to what is written.
i guess what i'm trying to say is, since i've stated at least once that this was my opinion, that i'm touched you 3 or 4 so far here would start rolling out the proverbial army of reasoning to support your own.
it makes me realize i'm on the right track.
It should actually make you realize that you're wrong, but whatever floats your boat.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:09:00 -
[355]
I think now it is time to "end suicide ganking as we know it." After all with factional warfare there are lots of fat soft targets available to the people who like such things (too bad they ended the remote rep from neutrals thingy, but CCP will be sure to throw you guys an offsetting bone sometime.) Let me see, when was the last time Empire got thrown a bone, Oh right, they didn't let anyone build capitals in empire anymore; or was it when they first put guns at the warp gates?
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 22:17:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Reangorette Bianie I think now it is time to "end suicide ganking as we know it." After all with factional warfare there are lots of fat soft targets available to the people who like such things (too bad they ended the remote rep from neutrals thingy, but CCP will be sure to throw you guys an offsetting bone sometime.) Let me see, when was the last time Empire got thrown a bone, Oh right, they didn't let anyone build capitals in empire anymore; or was it when they first put guns at the warp gates?
Seriously, you want capitals in empire? You think this will somehow help you?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.20 00:44:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Ki An It should actually make you realize that you're wrong, but whatever floats your boat.
in anticipation of an actual display of pure, 100% high grade irony, i'd like you to explain how my statement is 'wrong'.
You're doing it wrong. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.07.20 02:56:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 20/07/2008 02:58:08
Originally by: Empyre wow. what amazes me most about situations like these, is how quickly the defensiveness of some folks can turn into complete delusional regard to what is written.
i guess what i'm trying to say is, since i've stated at least once that this was my opinion, that i'm touched you 3 or 4 so far here would start rolling out the proverbial army of reasoning to support your own.
it makes me realize i'm on the right track.
Well, you know, if you really dont want to engage in debate then perhaps you, you know, shouldnt write big 3000 word posts specificaly talking to people, quoting what they say and refuting parts of it?
So the point we find ourselves in is:
you have an opinion which you have stated you feel overwhelmed by the "..army of reason.." which is telling you your opinion is illogical and unworkable your leaving the thread?
TBH - as someone has pointed out - the second half of this thread is pretty much just an exercise in forum debate - as the *spit* CSM have passed on their recommendations to CCP and the matter is ranked as fairly urgent in their priorities.
SKUNK
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Saint Lazarus
C R Y O
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Posted - 2008.07.20 03:14:00 -
[359]
Existential crisis is a concept in existentialism describing a state of panic or feeling of intense psychological discomfort about questions of existence. It is presumably more common in cultures where basic survival needs have been overcome.
Since 2001, this phrase has also been applied to politics, to describe crises in national security, especially in the Middle East.
It is quite similar to the sociological concept of anomie. It has also been likened to a mid-life crisis. The implication of an existential crisis is that the crisis itself stems from some sort of existential realization or understanding. -----------------
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.07.20 05:35:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Le Skunk Well, you know, if you really dont want to engage in debate then perhaps you, you know, shouldnt write big 3000 word posts specificaly talking to people, quoting what they say and refuting parts of it?
So the point we find ourselves in is:
you have an opinion which you have stated you feel overwhelmed by the "..army of reason.." which is telling you your opinion is illogical and unworkable your leaving the thread?
TBH - as someone has pointed out - the second half of this thread is pretty much just an exercise in forum debate - as the *spit* CSM have passed on their recommendations to CCP and the matter is ranked as fairly urgent in their priorities.
SKUNK
uh.. wut?
yes. no. these bullet point things are super ghey.
Well, you know, if you really want to make a point you, you know, should maybe go back and read the origin of the posts you are talking about? I've only quoted in response, save one that I posted for humor, thus the lack of any real substance, but could care less what you think of it.
TBH - Thanks for the useless information. I'll continue to not use it in any sort of meaningful way, and I'll think of you every time I do not use it.
<3
You're doing it wrong. |
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