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ECM!? Is this crap?

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Eve Goetterdaemmerung	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:30:00 - [1] Hello all I am not a pirate or PvP player, so I lack experience in this area even though I already play EVE for nearly 2 years. I started looking into the ECM modules when I wanted to fortify my POS. These ECM POS modules are really great... but when I checked the same for a ship fitting I could not believe what I saw: The multispectral ECM modules have something around 2.4 jamming strength in all 4 areas. So I would need to fit 8 to 10 modules into my ship to jam a BS (with around strength 22)?!? I mean even ships like the blackbird that get 10% ECM strength increase per skill lvl would still need 6 to 7 multi ECM modules to do the job!?! Do I miss something important here or is this completly useless!? ... well you will now tell me that I need to go for the more specialized ECM modules, but then I only have a 1:4 chance of beeing fitted correctly. That does not sound like a chance I like to take... So are these ECM modules completly useless or do I miss something here? Eve G.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:39:00 - [2] Chance based.
tarin adur Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:42:00 - [3] Forgive me if i'm wrong, but from what i know, the sensor strenght on the ecm doesn't have to be higher then the target ship's sensor strenght. the hsip's sensor strenght just shows how hard it'l be.
Shiodome Caldari Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:43:00 - [4] Edited by: Shiodome on 07/07/2008 23:44:03 with an 'average' skilled ECM pilot (most skills at IV, including recon IV) and a normal ship fitting, you'd get: Multi spec strength: 8.1 Racial jammer strength 12.2 which very roughly gives a 36% and 55% chance to jam respectively per cycle. given that you'd have 6 or 7 jammers fitted on the ship, all cycling every 20 seconds it's not that hard to get regular jams. It's just a combination of ship bonuses, modules (eg: Signal distortion amplifier boost the modules strength), and skills that all together increase the 'chance' of jamming. don't bother picking at the maths, it's just meant to be a simple easy to follow example. _____________________________________ today i am this cool: [uncool]================[*]====[cool]
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:45:00 - [5] Multispecs are pretty useless. And 2.4 is an unmodified number. If you have decent skills and some mods you can hit around 7 points on each type with Mulit specs. Some people like them but w/e. Racials are the best bet. You can hit a solid 11 in a BB, and 14 in Recon. with 4 and 5's in the off racial slots for that mod. With proper skills, SDA's and the right ship you will ruin someones day.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.07.07 23:53:00 - [6] You missed how the modules work. For example, a 2.5 jam strength would have a 25% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Four 2.5 jam strength modules would have a 68.4% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength.
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 00:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Dahak2150 You missed how the modules work. For example, a 2.5 jam strength would have a 25% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Four 2.5 jam strength modules would have a 68.4% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Yes, otherwise you could make a carrier practically unjammable with 2x ECCM mods (sensor strength is 269 iirc). Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.08 01:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Originally by: Dahak2150 You missed how the modules work. For example, a 2.5 jam strength would have a 25% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Four 2.5 jam strength modules would have a 68.4% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Yes, otherwise you could make a carrier practically unjammable with 2x ECCM mods (sensor strength is 269 iirc). Well such a carrier would be a total bastard to jam anyhow. I worked out that a Falcon with max skills and six racials would have a 27.3% chance of jamming a Thanatos with 2 ECCM's per cycle. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 01:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Stuart Price Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Originally by: Dahak2150 You missed how the modules work. For example, a 2.5 jam strength would have a 25% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Four 2.5 jam strength modules would have a 68.4% chance of jamming a ship with 10 sensor strength. Yes, otherwise you could make a carrier practically unjammable with 2x ECCM mods (sensor strength is 269 iirc). Well such a carrier would be a total bastard to jam anyhow. I worked out that a Falcon with max skills and six racials would have a 27.3% chance of jamming a Thanatos with 2 ECCM's per cycle. It is, but throw in an Arazu to damp and the relock time is long enough to kill anything around the carrier that just lost its logistic support. :( Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.07.08 03:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Stuart Price Well such a carrier would be a total bastard to jam anyhow. I worked out that a Falcon with max skills and six racials would have a 27.3% chance of jamming a Thanatos with 2 ECCM's per cycle. Thats still like once for 3 cycles. NERF! _______ ◕◡◕
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.08 03:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Stuart Price Well such a carrier would be a total bastard to jam anyhow. I worked out that a Falcon with max skills and six racials would have a 27.3% chance of jamming a Thanatos with 2 ECCM's per cycle. Thats still like once for 3 cycles. NERF! Naw, he dies after the first cycle to the 100 BS he doesn't have the racials to jam My favorite part was the skill remark. That made my day
Eve Goetterdaemmerung	Posted - 2008.07.08 06:33:00 - [12] Aha! So the thing I missed is, that it is based on chance (and not absolute numbers) and you just have to try several times and "some day" you will jam. So next question: if this works so unreliable, why not use the same amount of (scripted) remote sensor dampers? This would surely work and with 3 or 4 of them the max targeting range is reduced to close combat range (I calculated max targeting rangs is reduced to about 20% with 4 scripted RSD). This effectively means the victim loses his target (=> jammed). And even if he comes closer fast, he is likely not fitted for that distance. So compared to RSD the ECM is still crap! Any opinions on that!? Eve G.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.08 06:50:00 - [13] You are talking about a single hostile ship to take out of combat. Thats no challenge for a dedicated ecm ship. A Falcon would in 99% of cases be able to perma-jam a single hostile ship, given the victim doesn't have ECCM fitted. But if youre using dampeners and enemy got sensor booster youre screwed too. What you cannot do with dampeners, is take out multiple enemies out of combat at once. If you're lucky, have good skills and good modules, you can take out like 5 to 6 enemy ships at once with a Falcon/Rook. That is max numbers ofc. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Kuria Pang	Posted - 2008.07.08 07:09:00 - [14] Please consult this link for lots of helpful tips, relatively new topic http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=816635&page=1
Market AltLOLOLOLO	Posted - 2008.07.08 07:11:00 - [15] ECM is a different type of EW from dampners etc. You could say that if a trget is ECM'ed, they are dampend to infite power and tracking disrupted to infinite power as well. Not only that, you can force the enemy to lock nothing for 20 seconds, which is the same as re-logging delay. Thats why ECM is out of balance because you can permajam a most ships. And if they fit ECCM, you put another ECM on them. Tbh each race should have their own racial ECM in addition to their flavor of EW that makes sense. So minmatar get Tracking Disrupters + Amarr ECM racion bonus on their EW ships (TD's make most difference vs Amarr). Caldari get Painters and Gallente Racial bonus (I mean, caldari are suited for painters) and Minmatar get Dampners bonus and Amarr racial ECM bonus (to force people to fight close range). Amarr get Web bonus and Minmatar racial ECM bonus (since webs vs fastest ships of minmatar makes sense). Basically all races should have stuff to counter their enemy but nope. ECM rules over all types of EW because of the nature of it.
Eve Goetterdaemmerung	Posted - 2008.07.08 21:42:00 - [16] thx 4 the feedback. I think I got it now and will change my fitting CU online, Eve G.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.08 22:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Farrqua Multispecs are pretty useless. And 2.4 is an unmodified number. If you have decent skills and some mods you can hit around 7 points on each type with Mulit specs. Some people like them but w/e. Racials are the best bet. You can hit a solid 11 in a BB, and 14 in Recon. with 4 and 5's in the off racial slots for that mod. With proper skills, SDA's and the right ship you will ruin someones day. actually, multispecs do a wonderfull job in screwing up anything smaller than a BC. specially tacklers. oh yes, a 4 racials + 2 multispecs as backups/"GTFO" card if a tackler or 2 come close = pwn --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.

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