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Chruker
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Posted - 2008.07.09 18:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Chruker on 09/07/2008 19:11:30 With the latest official database dump now nearing its 7th month of being outdated, I think it would be nice to have CCP commit themselves to giving this information sharing a bit higher priority.
And while something was done from around april where t20 and prismx started to make the dumping process slicker, it still makes me fear that even though the process might be faster now, the datadump process still need to be prioritized and assigned to someone during the launch of a new version.
It would be nice if CCP would commit themselves to say: "The db dump will be released with the clients", or something similar achievable. Just so we know what to expect.
An alternative would be to expand the current icon generating functionality of the /webtools command so that it could generate a set of datafiles with the starmap, items and data. This should be something the client already have in its files. The rest of the static data from ex mapCelestialStatistics and/or mapDenormalized can then be published normaly if they would generate too much traffic.
The datadump process need to be prioritized higher and assigned to someone during the launch of a new version of EVE
Quote: [21:09] <CSM Member> Now edit your post at the bottom to say like: "CCP, please consider shipping the data dump on the same day as the patch. This will make sure all third-party tools are up to date"
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Chruker
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Posted - 2008.07.09 18:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Chruker on 09/07/2008 19:11:30 With the latest official database dump now nearing its 7th month of being outdated, I think it would be nice to have CCP commit themselves to giving this information sharing a bit higher priority.
And while something was done from around april where t20 and prismx started to make the dumping process slicker, it still makes me fear that even though the process might be faster now, the datadump process still need to be prioritized and assigned to someone during the launch of a new version.
It would be nice if CCP would commit themselves to say: "The db dump will be released with the clients", or something similar achievable. Just so we know what to expect.
An alternative would be to expand the current icon generating functionality of the /webtools command so that it could generate a set of datafiles with the starmap, items and data. This should be something the client already have in its files. The rest of the static data from ex mapCelestialStatistics and/or mapDenormalized can then be published normaly if they would generate too much traffic.
The datadump process need to be prioritized higher and assigned to someone during the launch of a new version of EVE
Quote: [21:09] <CSM Member> Now edit your post at the bottom to say like: "CCP, please consider shipping the data dump on the same day as the patch. This will make sure all third-party tools are up to date"
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Hojojitsu
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:03:00 -
[3]
Alot of people don't get why we feel this is important so I wanted to add a note that maybe people will understand.
The datadump we so eagerly want is used in the killboard software, without it we don't have accurate information on newer ships or fittiing slot changes.
Just one example.
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Hojojitsu
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:03:00 -
[4]
Alot of people don't get why we feel this is important so I wanted to add a note that maybe people will understand.
The datadump we so eagerly want is used in the killboard software, without it we don't have accurate information on newer ships or fittiing slot changes.
Just one example.
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Jameroz
Echoes of Space
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:05:00 -
[5]
Aren't they working on new system that allows them to easily publish the data. So for next patches we should get it much quicker, I hope.
Should release it already for EA tho
Our small corporation is recruiting mission runners |
Jameroz
Echoes of Space
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:05:00 -
[6]
Aren't they working on new system that allows them to easily publish the data. So for next patches we should get it much quicker, I hope.
Should release it already for EA tho
Our small corporation is recruiting mission runners |
Dern Morrow
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.09 19:23:00 -
[7]
I think this is a very important issue that CCP should address.
-- im in ur stargate pwning ur noobz |
Salvis Tallan
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:26:00 -
[8]
Yes. The data dump needs a much higher priority than what it is currently given. ------
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Ix Forres
Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:37:00 -
[9]
The fact is, the datadump should be released in advance of expansions, not months afterwards. This applies also to updated APIs.
If CCP is going to support developers, it needs to apply the same level of professionalism it would to any other aspect of the developmental process. The rule that traditionally companies should 'focus on what brings in the money and keeps people happy' does not hold true or can be deceptive when working with third-party developers. While a small group of people, there are few groups of people who hold as much sway over the happiness of other players. Killboards and EVEMon are two great examples of programs that have really added something to the game; if CCP continues to neglect developers, the rest of the community starts to feel it. Ultimately, anything that affects developers affects the majority of the community in time.
I hope CCP will see through the mistakes they have made in the past with managing the API and datadump projects and place these two projects, along with further supporting tools, ahead in the priorities list. Communication also desperately needs to be improved; I find it sad that while our old API developer (CCP Garthagk) is still in the #eve-dev channel in coldfront, months after his departure from CCP, we have yet to see our new API developer even join once to converse with developers. This lack of communication has hurt the process of development and the morale of third party developers hard, and pushed the relationship between the developer community and CCP apart like a wedge.
CCP needs to address these issues before the problem develops any further. People seem to take it for granted that applications like the EVE-Dev Killboard used by most corps/alliances just keep themselves up-to-date and working; developers work long and hard on applications (I've spent around 10 hours today on EVE Metrics, for example) and to some extent CCP are just shunning all this work that's being done for them. The sensible move from a business and CRM perspective here is to prioritise the API and datadump, with another developer if needed, and to get developers in better contact with the devs working on the tools. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | RLS-EVE | Blog |
Lilima Zennen
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:45:00 -
[10]
I aggree with Ix. Third-party developers have a huge sway on the way people interact with the game and priotiseing them into new client updates will help keep the community as a whole much happier.
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Vessper
Indicium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.09 22:51:00 -
[11]
Agree entirely with this. To have to wait several months to update 3rd-party applications that rely on a lot of the static data is just frustrating, especially when you see that Garthagk managed to release the last export BEFORE the Trinity patch. I can appreciate that some work was being done on the export procedures but in all honesty, it shouldn't take anywhere near this long to release an update.
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EveHQ Character App | Item Database |
Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:16:00 -
[12]
I agree. There's no reason that an updated datadump shouldn't be released with each new patch, and while that may be CCP's intention already, it's important enough to be formally addressed.
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Nightblade
Black Avatar Lost Sheep Domain
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Posted - 2008.07.10 01:44:00 -
[13]
Something should be done to make all the sad people in this thread happy.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=724413
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Vreena
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.07.10 07:36:00 -
[14]
Signed. -----
The above does not reflect the views and/or opinions of my corporation or alliance...well it could, but let's not be presumptuous, okay? |
Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.07.10 09:36:00 -
[15]
First alternate to CSM.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.07.10 10:17:00 -
[16]
I will be bringing this up at the soonest possible meeting.
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MenanceWhite
Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:38:00 -
[17]
yes. ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Nerith Gorn
Salamander Salvage and Custom Rigging
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:41:00 -
[18]
Signed
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Da'Neth
Federation Zone Operations Command
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Posted - 2008.07.10 12:29:00 -
[19]
my name is Da'Neth and I approve of this message
Join ZOCOM / useful info IGB |
Baron Erique
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:03:00 -
[20]
Nice OP, and very good comment from Ix. |
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Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:33:00 -
[21]
---------- |
Sky Grunthor
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.10 13:57:00 -
[22]
most definitely get the data. AND the images Search: Sky Grunthor |
Dronte
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:44:00 -
[23]
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Elissen
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.10 21:23:00 -
[24]
I totally agree and Ix has put it down perfectlty. Updated API and data dumps should be available before patchday. ---- Weeks of programming can save you hours of planning. Jumpplanner - Routeplanner for all jumpcapable ships! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.10 21:36:00 -
[25]
Sounds like a plan to me. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Yorick Downe
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.10 21:45:00 -
[26]
The data dump is something that CCP give us out of the goodness of their hearts (hopefully, also, a business reason), and it is much appreciated. The data dump and the API set EvE apart from other games, in that incredibly useful out-of-game tools can be created.
We have just been informed that it takes two senior developers to create a data dump. I don't know how much time they need to make it happen, but it's clearly "non-trivial".
Given that it takes this long - and we're 7 months overdue - and assuming that the availability of 3rd-party tools is sound business for CCP, I'd much rather see T20 and Prism take the time it takes to create an AASADDDT (Automated All Singing All Dancing Database Dump Tool) and hit the "dump" button rather than creating a manual dump. If that means we'll have to wait a little longer now and it'll be fast in future, I'll deal.
That'd need CCP management buy-in - a tool typically eats up more resources (time) up-front, whereas it will save lots of resources over the medium, and most certainly long, term.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.11 22:24:00 -
[27]
Yes. -
DesuSigs |
SoleDeo Gloria
Mission Runners Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.11 22:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ix Forres The fact is, the datadump should be released in advance of expansions, not months afterwards. This applies also to updated APIs.
This ^
My EVE Online Screen Captures Blog |
Adrielle Firewalker
WASTELAND MINERS Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 00:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Elissen I totally agree and Ix has put it down perfectlty. Updated API and data dumps should be available before patchday.
Well, probably right after anyway. I do know its a lot of work, especially as there's only two people doing it. Plus we keep being told it'll be ready 'for the next big patch', which was supposed to be Empyrean Age, but nothing happened again.
Anyway, I'm all for this! ================
~Adrielle
Original MinmatarT |
Will Morrisson
Defcon One Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.13 00:42:00 -
[30]
Agree, definitely need this dump
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