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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:13:00 -
[1]
CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
The CSM explained that there were three main concerns, the lack of the 30 day game time codes so that players were forced to make larger purchases at once, the price increase compared to the old game time codes, and the communication between Marketing and the players (players did not buy the story). Furthermore, Eva (CSM Ankhesentapemkah) requested CCP to consider lowering the price of their 60 day game time code to 29.95, instead of 34.95 as it is now.
CCP replied that the current 60 day game time code will likely become the standard in the near future, and that supporting separate products is more expensive. Nevertheless, they will relay the complaints about the removal of the 30 day game time code to the Marketing department. They are working on making more payment methods available for subscribers, so that players that previously used game time codes can use these methods to pay for Eve instead.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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Ranges
Against all Rules Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:29:00 -
[2]
I have something to add to this, that may (or may not) make sense from a business point of view;
30 day GTC's provide old-timers with cancelled accounts a low barrier to re-entering the game. I can imagine that, if i had a character with a billion in wallet, and CCP launches one of those juicy expansions, that i'd be signing up for another 30 days. (with all the horrid dangers of being sucked right back in. )
Now, paying up to 150m to do that, is a good deal. A player could do that about 6 times, 7 times if he earned some money during his re-subs.
However, if a player has to pay 300m (or more?), he won't be able to re-sub as often without paying RL cash to CCP himself. This could reduce the number of lost customers returning to the game.
The point here is that most players come to eve for their personal favorite thing to do (such as; pirating, 0.0 alliances, industry, mining, exploration.. And i probably missed some). CCP cannot possibly address all these preferences in a single patch, although they're VERY welcome to try. The more times a player can re-sub while another player pays the bills, the better the chances are for CCP to draw a player back into the game as a returning customer.
I think this is a consideration that should be weighed by CCP, although perhaps it already has been weighed.
-Ranges
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:52:00 -
[3]
I guess a lack of subscriptions will show CCP if they made the right or wrong decision here. I have 8 accounts, 2 of which always remain active. The other 6 I had running on 90d gtc's so they were relatively cheap to keep running even if not used too much. Now with all these changes all 6 of the accounts remain idle and one may be activated from time to time when needed but that's it.
So I dare say from myself alone CCP is losing about 4-6 subscriptions per month. Not a threat, just an honest statement. My two main accounts will likely never stop paying regardless of price |
Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:09:00 -
[4]
Coming from the other side of the Pacific, down here in the Philippines, I can speak for most of the EVE-players that I've talked to that the removal of the 30day GTC and the price hike of the 60day have all but made them not to continue their accounts.
Some have resorted to more illegal methods of maintaining their accounts.
The vote is unanimous here that we want the 30day back. -
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.11 10:32:00 -
[5]
getting 60 days for the price I got 90 days is
I don't like running missions so much, generating an extra 1.8 bil a year just sucks (and that is with lovely discounted gtcs from alliance mates)
I want to go back to -10, but that doesn't work out so when I'm buying gtcs. some days I have gotten very lucky. some days isn't enough to pay for gtcs
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.11 10:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Coming from the other side of the Pacific, down here in the Philippines, I can speak for most of the EVE-players that I've talked to that the removal of the 30day GTC and the price hike of the 60day have all but made them not to continue their accounts.
Some have resorted to more illegal methods of maintaining their accounts.
The vote is unanimous here that we want the 30day back.
I would rather have the 90d back
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.11 10:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ricdics I guess a lack of subscriptions will show CCP if they made the right or wrong decision here. I have 8 accounts, 2 of which always remain active. The other 6 I had running on 90d gtc's so they were relatively cheap to keep running even if not used too much. Now with all these changes all 6 of the accounts remain idle and one may be activated from time to time when needed but that's it.
So I dare say from myself alone CCP is losing about 4-6 subscriptions per month. Not a threat, just an honest statement. My two main accounts will likely never stop paying regardless of price
and this, I will probably be keeping 2 accounts active, and one training a month long skill, and not active for a month (20-30days)... I have lots of month long skills. looks like I will be doing carrier, dread, fighters, capital energy turret 5, and sentry drone op 5. in the next year or so
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.11 11:31:00 -
[8]
yeah... bring the 30 and 90 days back...
give people the options...
and yeah, we dont need to copy wow....
(although I can see how the gtc issue is related to the Euro/conversion issue...hence the new 60 days price.. )
but yeah, a happy customer will bring in more customers...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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SunglassesInSpace
SPACE DUDES
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Posted - 2008.07.11 11:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
Other MMOs are not 'premium products'? That's a pretty subjective statement to make.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.11 13:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: SunglassesInSpace
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
Other MMOs are not 'premium products'? That's a pretty subjective statement to make.
and the creditcard payment method is still the same price as it was previous to the change.
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Bane Glorious
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Posted - 2008.07.11 19:58:00 -
[11]
I made a point during this meeting to ask for at least 30-day timecards to return, since they seem to be the most commonly used. |
Hamfast
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.11 20:47:00 -
[12]
As one of those that bought GTC's to sell for ISK (I used it to buy a Freighter) I can tell you that I was starting to wonder how low the price (in ISK) a GTC would have to get before people would stop selling them...
Now we have a 60 day card that costs us more, but sells for less... again, lowering the reasons we have to buy and sell them.
As the people like me stop offering up GTC's to our fellow players, how many of those players will find alternate ways to pay... or will they move on to other games they may not like as much as well, but can afford to play.
I also worry that those that currently use GTC's to finance their play (unlike me who used it to finance a special purchase) will decide it just costs too much...
But the 60 day cards are Awesome... really...
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Karu Manara
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Posted - 2008.07.11 21:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
For a premium product, you sure do have a lot of bugs!
I've already let one account (out of three) expire and have no plans on resubscribing it under current conditions. I'll probably let another expire and not resubscribe. So you gain a little extra money from a single subscription costing more, but lose a lot more money from losing two subscriptions. Bright move, that!
30d and 90d GTCs should be brought back.
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Jon Doe
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Posted - 2008.07.12 02:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Karu Manara
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
For a premium product, you sure do have a lot of bugs!
I've already let one account (out of three) expire and have no plans on resubscribing it under current conditions. I'll probably let another expire and not resubscribe. So you gain a little extra money from a single subscription costing more, but lose a lot more money from losing two subscriptions. Bright move, that!
30d and 90d GTCs should be brought back.
I totally agree.
For me giving CCP my credit card details is simply not an option after they decided they could not stop themselves from acting like a kid in a candy store my credit card. Even though I have barely played EVE for the past year I have kept 2 accounts active via GTC purchased for ISK. With this change 1 account will defiantly be cancelled.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.07.12 08:14:00 -
[15]
I don't think only having 1 option for GTC's is very good for the market. 30, 60, 90 day GTC's will even out the supply and demand.
Oh well, whatever. At least I'll have battleship level 5 when / if I come back to eve :\
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.07.12 10:41:00 -
[16]
Why don't CCP simply sell electronic timecodes directly from the website, for the same price as a monthly subscription ? It would remove the loss of income from a reseller, it surely can't cost all that much (being just bytes, you could offer as many time-lenghts as you want for very little cost).
One issue I see with more expensive isk/GTCs is that it give isk sellers a boost. When the cost of people 'legitimately' buying isk through GTCs goes up, the room for the isk sellers to operate in goes up. As obviously they would have to be cheaper in order to justify the fact that you're probably going to lose any isk you buy.
Of course you couldn't expect third party stores to sell the GTCs for the same price CCP would directly, and this would mean many people would probably lose the money they're currently gaining from refering people to certain GTC sites (myself included). But overall this would be a good thing. It was a tiny bit broken before that certain large alliances were essentially gaining large amounts of ingame isk via these referals, so that people could avoid paying the Euro price.
Primarily I see the move to the more expensive 60 day GTCs as move by CCP for the following reasons 1) to force Euro customers to pay more (as it's now more attractive for them to sub directly vs buying GTCs in USD) 2) to limit the people that are doing dark training (subbing for 30 days, then training a long skill while unsubbed, paying for the account via isk / things like datacores) 3) to gain back the profit they were losing to people that were subscribing via GTCs (because the GTCs were sold cheaper in bulk to allow for commission paid to resellers)
The statement that it 'is the standard' or 'will be the standard' I find offensive, as if we are being treated like idiots who won't know better. I don't blame CCP for doing what is in the best interests of running a company, but being fed a bullshit reason like that makes me more angry.
I agree that Eve may be more expensive because it's a premium product, I quite like not having to pay for expansions etc. But the issue I think is that the game isn't just more expensive in general, it's more expensive depending on where in the world you are and how you choose to pay for it. (granted a physical card from a store should obviously be more expensive as it obviously has distribution and commission costs, but that's not the exact issue here).
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Sir SmellyFart
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:17:00 -
[17]
Timing sure sucks for ccp, I was just setting up a second account, but with the inflated prices, that's going into the gutter after the 14 day period
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Smacko Thug
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.12 20:57:00 -
[18]
Its good to see the question of why GTC users have to pay more for eve than anyone else, was completely ignored.
Mat, sweep... typical
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Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:00:00 -
[19]
bring back the 30 and 90 day GTCs please... With prices that are more inline with credit card pricing, thanks === Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.13 03:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shinzann bring back the 30 and 90 day GTCs please... With prices that are more inline with credit card pricing, thanks
Seconded. I used to pay the equivalent of 280m for a 60d, now its going to cost me 380m for the same.
Stealth price hike, not cool.
Click me! You know you want to... |
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Rogue Wing
Gallente Infernal Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.13 03:11:00 -
[21]
This is ridiculous. Eve doesn't nearly have the play base of WoW, and trys not to mimic them. Except when there is profit in it. Accept it or not, CCP is losing accounts because they have decided they don't want to lose some cash here and there to make their customers happy. This didn't get nearly the attention it deserved, CCP is just going to ignore it. With a response of "So what if you have to pay, we rule!", I find it less appealing to put my money into this game.
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eliminator2
Gallente Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:01:00 -
[22]
what the marketing side of CCP don't understand is that if they higher prices of GTC's now and cut down on the choice wise of GTC's etc getting ride of 30-90 day gtc's will result in people leaving they consider there selves permium now but what do the customers think. my points of view is that you guys earn well enough from us as we are now but the lack of custumer help etc petitions been answered in answered i dont mean time wise i mean in the fact that we get the same old answers back that say somewere in the answer we can not find this in our logs, maybe you guys delete them and say this because i no i have set my cach on low but i still get the messages that indicate there is a log of this and leads to the server's fault etc lag.
the future we are not bothered about we live in the present not the future you guys on marketing side should look at the present that people are buying 30 60 90 and higher GTC's for a settled good price and with the increase of petrol electrice gas and other stuff does not help with the price rise because everything is highering part from our wages so if anything CCP marketing side should take this to consider and leave the GTC's how they used to be and maybe work harder than sitting in a chair counting money.
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eliminator2
Gallente Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:04:00 -
[23]
and i use 90 day GTC's since they are good for there price and it saves me hving to find the cash/isk within 1-2 months
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Seiver D'amross
Subach-Tech Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2008.07.13 20:18:00 -
[24]
i can see this killing eve, there are many of us who paied for the game with GTC bought with isk. and now your makeing it harder for us to pay to play, my account will be going on carrer 5 when the begenning of next month rolls around. _____________________________________________________ I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power |
Iesiama Nobalte
Chinese ISK Farmers
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Posted - 2008.07.14 07:56:00 -
[25]
Someone, please think of us poor ISK farmers! :(
Ok, serious note, Eve is not a Porsche. While eve players seem more loyal than most, gamers tend to be extremely fickle. Make it unattractive to play Eve for one reason or another (such as with a price hike), and you'll end up alienating a significant part of your customer base.
In eve, as with all other MMOs, premium is NOT the key. Volume is. Volume is NOT achieved by alienating your customers by raising prices. Volume is achieved by offering a good product, AND having competitive pricing. The key here is competitive pricing.
Raising the price of GTCs (as has been done with the 60 day GTC being more than twice as expensive as the old 30 day GTC, and almost as expensive as the old 90 day GTC will only make your customers upset.
Please note that I'm saying this as a GTC seller, who made sure to stock up on 90 day GTCs before this happened. I'm making almost 50% more ISK on each GTC I sell these days, which is good for me in-game, but I still think it totally sucks, and I'm no longer sure if I can keep selling GTCs for ISK, nor keep up running eight accounts of my own.
Post with your main or STFU |
Belmarduk
Amarr de Prieure Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.07.14 14:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Iesiama Nobalte
Raising the price of GTCs (as has been done with the 60 day GTC being more than twice as expensive as the old 30 day GTC, and almost as expensive as the old 90 day GTC will only make your customers upset.
Hear Hear.... CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.14 21:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Smacko Thug Its good to see the question of why GTC users have to pay more for eve than anyone else, was completely ignored.
Mat, sweep... typical
Probably because CCP wan'ts to make the same money per subscription, and you're going through a middle man to get GTCs, and said middleman also wants to make money.
You do realize you're asking why it's more expensive to buy at a retail store than directly from the manufacturer, right?
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Joseph Marsh
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Posted - 2008.07.15 16:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Karu Manara
Originally by: CCP Wrangler CCP told the CSM that pricing of the game time codes is a business issue, and that Eve might be more expensive than other MMOs on the market because it is a premium product.
For a premium product, you sure do have a lot of bugs!
I've already let one account (out of three) expire and have no plans on resubscribing it under current conditions. I'll probably let another expire and not resubscribe. So you gain a little extra money from a single subscription costing more, but lose a lot more money from losing two subscriptions. Bright move, that!
30d and 90d GTCs should be brought back.
yes, indeed a lot of bugs and lag. And even before the changes of GTC EVE was the most expensive MMO. But know, will be simply unplayable for many players.
And the second thing! Why the players from Europe have to pay more than the rest of the world?????? I mean now the 1 Euro is aprox. 1.6 dollars. so as an european i have to pay 23.92 dollars per month, while the rest of the world is paying 14.95. Even considering that because i am from europe i have to pay VAT to, but with VAT is 17.79. So why i am paying an extra 6.1 dollars a month for the same product? Buying time codes over the internet was an options (not always a good one, but it was), but now i am forced to pay for 2 months in advance if i want to play EVE. And in this conditions, what if you, CCP, will make a patch and with that patch i will consider that EVE is not worth playing any more with this patch, but i already pay for 2 months in advance. Or with a new expansion a horrific will be in game (never happened until now because EVE is "premium" ) and i will be so angry that i will want to quite EVE. Or i will just get bored at a moment. Then what? I will be forced to play for almost 2 months or simply lose my money? This is not a good perspective, for me at least.
So from my point of view you have 2 choices. Make the same price for Europe and for the rest of the World, or make available the 30 days GTC.
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Mama Hauler
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.15 16:37:00 -
[29]
so.. you say premium product.. well that much lag and all these bugs makes it very special! even premium!
on a serious note: CCP, you've tried to fix what's not broken and you broke it. Because people already are canceling their accounts and CCP is losing their customers and income. Bringing back 30d or 90d or reducing 60d GTCs price probably would fix it.
Afterall, not being able to enjoy main feature of eve (pvp) because of the lag, node crashes (you name it) doesn't make this game premium, seriously.
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Belmarduk
Amarr de Prieure Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.07.15 19:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Seconded. I used to pay the equivalent of 280m for a 60d, now its going to cost me 380m for the same.
Stealth price hike, not cool.
Same here - Thats a very bad move - Many people might close second accounts or alltogether their account because of this... CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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