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Ed Gein
Omega Modz
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:09:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ed Gein on 13/07/2008 02:12:35 Way back in the day, like way back, when I still had a girlfriend, ANYWAY, capacitors and cap skills were really important. The older guys would always stress training capacitor skills first. This made a lot of sense then.
The current pvp scene today, however, dictates every BS should be flying around with at least one heavy neut, and one capacitor injector. These two modules alone pretty much eliminate the need for every other capacitor module or skill in pvp.
From a fun standpoint, capacitors just aren't. There is nothing fun about them, and they only cause headaches. No one likes getting neuted out, no one likes hauling around cap charges, but its currently a necessary evil. Even from the ratters point of view, its boring. You have to sacrifice numerous modules slots just to get a maintainable cap for your method of tanking, leaving you with a ship that resembles nothing you would fly in pvp (at least not a ship you would plan on flying home in <_<).
Okay, so then what do we replace cap with? We can't have people running around using three large armor reps, and two shield boosters, that would silly and no one would ever die. Why not further flesh out the heat system. Make all modules generate base heat, so you can run your triple reps, just not for very long. It is sort of like cap, but more interesting.
Perhaps your ship could handle 12,000 units of heat, and run fine, no heat damage, etc. Lets say your guns generate 1,000 heat, and your large armor rep generates 4,000 heat. Your ships has 8 guns so.. 8,000 heat (guns) + 4000 heat (armor rep) = 12,000 heat You are generating 12000 heat. That means your ship could run its rep and guns forever. Lets say over-loaded your guns would generate 1,500 heat (for a total of 8x1500 being 12,000 heat). That means you could run your guns over-loaded forever, perfectly fine, but you couldn't armor rep or you will start taking heat damage.
A change like this would do a lot in the way of making pvp fresh again. You would see a lot of ships with radically new tactics just because they aren't trying to cram neuts and injectors onto them. All the ships that have boring capacitor and weapon energy use bonus could be replaced with much more interesting heat bonuses. Balancing issues like the current mwd/nano problem/craze/ULTIMATE SOLUTION (depending which side of the fence your standing on today) could be solved by simply increasing the amount of heat generated by an mwd. You couldn't run it forever if your ship is melting. Fights in general would probably be more tactical since tanks would be more reliable and promote longer fights. This could even help the development sub system targeting down the road. More ships would actually make use of the extra missile slots that normally get ignored. Also, think of all the modules that could be removed from the database, hundreds at least. That could make things a bit faster.
These are just my drunken thoughts from last night, feel free to troll, flame, spam, lock, insult me, or maybe even agree on some level gasp
discuss? --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/07/2008 02:13:24 Why? Cap is still nessissary. MWDs for one are huge cap hogs and shield, cap, and armor transporters are always useful. Reppers and boosters still have their uses. Not to mention you could throw balance out the window. _______________
CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears. |
Ed Gein
Omega Modz
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 13/07/2008 02:12:53 Why? Cap is still nessissary. MWDs for one are huge cap hogs and shield, cap, and armor transporters are always useful. Reppers and boosters still have their uses.
sigh, you obviously didn't read it
failsauce --------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Gruxella
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:15:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gruxella on 13/07/2008 02:18:27 Edited by: Gruxella on 13/07/2008 02:16:22 Cap is one more thing to manage. You're suggesting we do away with something that at least 7 ships specialize in. 3 cap warfare boats, 2 logistics cruisers which transfer cap and two carriers which also transfer cap.
I do not support "ez mode" eve.
edit: Can you imagine my megathron permanently overloading its neutron blasters because my guardian is remotely "cooling my guns down".
You don't want to be on the recieving end. I can see that you tried to think this out. I'm sorry that you hate cap warfare. I hate people jamming me with regular e-war but guess what.
It's part of the game.
---- VHI - We Haul Your Cargo For Free ---- We Miss you Red 7. |
DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/07/2008 02:22:50
Originally by: Ed Gein sigh, you obviously didn't read it
failsauce
You seem to be saying the current system fails. Which quite frankly fails. I'm saying what would this do besides totally fubur balance and **** off 3/4 of EVE who are comfortable with the current system. Oh and don't forget all the SP people have in cap skills will be thrown away. You can't just go around making sweeping changes that change the fundimental principles of EVE as we know it for kicks.
Sorry but you're one of those people who don't seem to know what "consequences" are. Next time you get an idea take a moment. Then think about what you're saying would do to EVE as a whole before you open your mouth. Please. _______________
CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears. |
Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:21:00 -
[6]
Of course we need caps, where else would we keep our mana?
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Cadde
Gallente Dragonian Freelancers Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:25:00 -
[7]
I find your proposal well formulated and it might hold some value. But when i think about it, in my opinion it will only replace the capacitor we have today with heat... We will then have heat sinks for that (Not the weapon upgrade ones) and coolant systems and heat generators for the EW variants. The same thing just different, nothing really changed in the end. Maybe a combination of the two could work somehow, the more energy you press through your system, the more heat is generated and if you keep it up it will damage your ship? This goes for both sides ofc. Just trying to be constructive in my critique. --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp! |
Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:39:00 -
[8]
I'll admit, I didn't read most of your thread. But cap skills are incredibly important still, there are ships that aren't passive drakes and battleships with injectors. Even still, the cap skills are epically important ---------- I need a good sig, someone make one for me. |
Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.07.13 02:57:00 -
[9]
We could then create a highslot module such as a remote heat synchronizer, and heat projectors, as well as liquid coolant injectors, and we are right back where we started... -- this is my sig. |
Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.07.13 03:03:00 -
[10]
You'd be replacing cap with something else that would have the same effect as cap. I'd be more in favor of just adjusting cap.
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Hellspawn666
Minmatar Master Miners Intruders.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 03:34:00 -
[11]
Odly enough i kind of like this idea, i mean at first it looked like a pile of frack but it would sort of balance tanking and make heat a more interesting part of the game. But it would mean redesigning the entire game pretty much, tons of ship bonus's would have to change the way the guns work meaning minmitar have no cap usage is one of the things that makes them balanced with amarr which have heavy cap use.
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Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.13 03:40:00 -
[12]
CCP should spend time fixing bugs and adding new interesting content and working on balance issues.
This doesn't really fall into any of these categories. Maybe neuts and cap injectors need tweaking, I agree its stupid to have a required module across all ship classes. But removing cap completely would be overkill.
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nutbar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.13 04:38:00 -
[13]
There are quite a few modules which base their usefulness on capacitor (like the failsauce poster mentioned) - mwds, abs, jumping, etc...
Perhaps an alternative route is to remove cap neutralizers from the game or something and replace them with something that affects ship heat as you had mentioned.
I like your idea but there'd be way too much to change to implement it and it would re-start the whole whineage about some ships being better than others.
Or, perhaps you could change corp tactics - introduce more support ships. Have them cap rep the ships getting drained, and have neut-specialized ships drain your enemies to leave your battle ships fully set up to battle without worrying about capacitors.
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:26:00 -
[14]
so basically under this system, all the cap effecting mods and shit would effect heat right? So if if neut transfers heat to your ship, how is this any different then cap?
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Galan Amarias
Amarr The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:35:00 -
[15]
Aside from the obvious you'd just be renaming cap heat. IO did notice that you want to be able to permanently overheat your guns. Do you realy want to see plate baddons and plate geddons on permanent overheat?
-Galan
The answer to empire ganking |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:48:00 -
[16]
From reading the post - all that came accross to me was that you were affirming how important cap management is to PVP (and PVE for that matter). IE: saying that alot of people focus on things that either bolster their own source of energy or screw with someone elses. As far as I'm concerned, that's just right.
The use of an available energy source is a very imporantant thing no matter what you look at (RL and sci-fi/fantasy).
In EVE, I see about 3 or 4 different ways that people handle it. - reinforce their own (cap injectors and cap recharger modules - run some guardians/basi's in gang) - screw with someone elses (neuts/nos - run some curse/pilgrims or nos domis/myrms/apocs in gang) - decrease the reliance on big amounts of cap being used individually (remote repping plated gangs with guardian or basi in tow (repping bots (oneiros?)) - obliterate someones cap before theirs or yours even becomes an issues (blobbing - this option sucks)
Cap is very important. Hence why alot of strategies and tactics revolve around it and it's direct and indirect effects.
And ofc, moar dev blogs.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 06:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ed Gein ...a bunch of words...
While you are at it, I think we should remove shield/armor/hull hp's. Who needs them anyway.
I think it would be much better if, after fitting your tank of choice your ship got a set of 'scores' for the shield/armor/hull. When engaging in combat the game will start rolling dice for each ship, if the die roll exceeds the shield score then the shield dissapears, then moves on to armor and then hull.
This change would remove the need to fit silly wateful things like shield and armor reps, and all you will have to worry about is fixing your resists.
-=^=-
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