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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.16 15:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2008 15:19:39
Originally by: Esmenet Then why dont you make a "Caldari militia get your shit together" post instead.
Get WHAT shit together ? Do you mean "get all those minimal standings alts trained up for T2 ships instantly" ? Or would that be "force people to PvP in highsec when they were promised lowsec mindless fun" ? Oh, wait, you want all people who only CASUALLY try out PvP to LEAVE the militias ? Remind me again, what the funk was the purpose of FW again ? So how about I make a "shut your ignorant piehole" post instead ?
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.16 15:19:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2008 15:18:16
Originally by: Esmenet Then why dont you make a "Caldari militia get your shit together" post instead.
Get WHAT shit together ? Oh, wait, you want all people who only CASUALLY try out PvP to LEAVE the militias ? Or, remind me again, what the funk was the purpose of FW again ? So how about I make a "shut your ignorant piehole" post instead ?
Yes because stopping a small gang in Jita takes massive effort and dedication.
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Funkcikle
Gallente MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.16 15:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2008 15:19:39
Originally by: Esmenet Then why dont you make a "Caldari militia get your shit together" post instead.
Get WHAT shit together ? Do you mean "get all those minimal standings alts trained up for T2 ships instantly" ? Or would that be "force people to PvP in highsec when they were promised lowsec mindless fun" ? Oh, wait, you want all people who only CASUALLY try out PvP to LEAVE the militias ? Remind me again, what the funk was the purpose of FW again ? So how about I make a "shut your ignorant piehole" post instead ?
You said Funk, sweet, I own you now report to Villore for Bridesmaid duties at once
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.16 15:25:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Esmenet Yes because stopping a small gang in Jita takes massive effort and dedication.
Getting people to blob into Tama is already an acheivement, do you honestly expect any kind of rapid response whenever most don't even LOOK at the militia channel before they get wasted by trying to dock at jita 4-4 while lagged out loading the grid and dead before they actually get a chance to even see their pod pop ? So, yeah, the NUMBER of militia pilots present might have been remotely similar... with the key difference being in the Caldari side, half were docked and AFK, a quarter were loading grids, and an eight were alts just gawking at it all.
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.17 07:19:00 -
[65]
So, anybody else got any other bright ideas about the navies, or tales of their failures to tell today ?
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 08:00:00 -
[66]
sad to see Gallente defending what's blatent abuse of game mechanics
I'm sure it was CCP's intention for 2 pilots not even involved in Factional Warfare to turn it into a low-sec system for all FW players. Totally.
...
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 11:55:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 17/07/2008 11:55:26 When CCP rekoned drawing aggro onto one aggressor being repped by neutrals was 'working as intended', I knew hi-sec NPCs were in the toilet . Having non-militia member gain the aggro of all the spawns is just salt for the festering wound really. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 19:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 17/07/2008 11:55:26 When CCP rekoned drawing aggro onto one aggressor being repped by neutrals was 'working as intended'
Not anymore. ...
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.17 20:06:00 -
[69]
Ups, looks like somebody made a fool out of them selves. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.17 20:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 17/07/2008 11:55:26 When CCP rekoned drawing aggro onto one aggressor being repped by neutrals was 'working as intended'
Not anymore.
You apparently don't understand what the news item was talking about.
faction nuetrals who take the agro of npc faction navy is considered the no no... I forget where it was mentioned on how it was happening, they may have removed the thread |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.17 21:06:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/07/2008 21:07:18
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg When CCP rekoned drawing aggro onto one aggressor being repped by neutrals was 'working as intended' having non-militia member gain the aggro of all the spawns is just salt for the festering wound really.
Not anymore. And no comment on the first part
Fixed your post & quote
P.S. Now, if only CCP would start handling the rest of the issues as exploits until the NPCs are revamped/fixed/upgraded, it would be just peachy.
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 21:37:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Akita T you just need one to get aggro and tank it all whichever way he sees most fit.
I never realised that the Caldary militia was so **** poor that it cannot kill a ship even when it has the aggro from 10 NPC spawns.
I am willing to accept your surrender on behalf on the Gallente Federation now.
Let smack, more retaking that system we're holding.
You might want to look up the tanking capabilities of the vulture. Then look up how well a logistics ship can boost someone. Now combine the two.
Oh look, a vulture that tanks as much DPS as an Aeon, possibly more.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 21:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Wayward Hero
A Raven undocked, war target to the Gallente militia. The 'cane locked him down, and 5 or 6 other HACS and BC's decloaked right off of him.
Pretty much doubt they decloaked, as you cannot cloak in ennemy faction space (see whine threads about recons and bombers not working for highsec faction warfare). Invent a better story next time.
Yes you can, it's just worthless if your FW spawn isn't targeting someone else yet. There isn't some anti-cloak mechanic in FW.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 21:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: oilio The Militia can't shoot the ship with aggro. It isn't a war target, and any ship that fired on it would be CONCORDed immediately.
However the Faction Navy is shooting at it. And boy do those guys hurt. If only there was a way of breaking the spider tank without annoying CONCORD.
Any ideas?
Is this where you try to act witty by saying to do something like bump them? If so, please let me know so I can inform you why that won't work if they're doing it right.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:00:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Seriously. If you spent a tenth the effort thinking about ways to solve the problem yourself, rather than have CCP solve them, you would've scored quite a few very expensive kills by now, gone miles towards dissuading people from making these raids in the future, and earned some respect for a militia that badly needs it. I'm genuinely not trying to smack here. The reputation of the CalMil is "when raw numbers can't win, whine on the forums." This is an easy puzzle to solve if you look at all the pieces, and you could score some REALLY nice loot as a side.
Sounds like someone's bitter that they keep finding out their tricks aren't allowed.
I know 'skilled' players like yourself love finding kinks in the game so that when you get some highsec kills you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but your tears of "omg stop 'whining' and adapt(to exploits)" are just lovely. What will you do if/when ships in EVE have real AI, and the Caldari Navy actually starts making heavy use of its strength, you know, ECMing the sweet jesus out of everything? I already know how I'll counter the Gallente Navy Ewar.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:03:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2008 15:19:39
Originally by: Esmenet Then why dont you make a "Caldari militia get your shit together" post instead.
Get WHAT shit together ? Do you mean "get all those minimal standings alts trained up for T2 ships instantly" ? Or would that be "force people to PvP in highsec when they were promised lowsec mindless fun" ? Oh, wait, you want all people who only CASUALLY try out PvP to LEAVE the militias ? Remind me again, what the funk was the purpose of FW again ? So how about I make a "shut your ignorant piehole" post instead ?
They mean "spend a lot of time rallying them so that the heavy amount of alts and spies everyone has in various militias can undermine it like they do most militia fleet ops".
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:16:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 17/07/2008 11:55:26 When CCP rekoned drawing aggro onto one aggressor being repped by neutrals was 'working as intended'
Not anymore.
You apparently don't understand what the news item was talking about.
faction nuetrals who take the agro of npc faction navy is considered the no no... I forget where it was mentioned on how it was happening, they may have removed the thread
Hmmm, where was that mentioned? Oh I know, the very first post in this thread
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Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:37:00 -
[78]
So here is my question: I have a sufficient negative standing with the Federation, plain and simple. For example: I leave my corp and join Caldari Provisions, but stay in contact with friends in the Caldari militia; some of whom are looking to roam around Federation high sec ganking Feds in their high sec bases. I offer to scout for them, which will draw aggro from the Federation Navy is this the exploit?
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FlameGlow
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:44:00 -
[79]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 17/07/2008 22:45:06
Originally by: Dex Nederland So here is my question: I have a sufficient negative standing with the Federation, plain and simple. For example: I leave my corp and join Caldari Provisions, but stay in contact with friends in the Caldari militia; some of whom are looking to roam around Federation high sec ganking Feds in their high sec bases. I offer to scout for them, which will draw aggro from the Federation Navy is this the exploit?
me thinks, if you gather all navy spawns to attack you then yes, if you only have yours then no But that question you should direct to GMs through petitions, not to forum crowd
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:52:00 -
[80]
Edited by: P''uck on 17/07/2008 22:52:43
Originally by: Thorradin Yes you can, it's just worthless if your FW spawn isn't targeting someone else yet. There isn't some anti-cloak mechanic in FW.
yes there is, lol. go try it. cloak in hostile highsec, i wanna see that.
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Daelin Blackleaf
The Reclaimed
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Posted - 2008.07.17 22:59:00 -
[81]
Before any real discussion of the Faction Navies can take place we need some kind of statement from CCP on what their exact purpose is.
Not telling us may give the impression of a more "sand box" style game by handing us content and not telling us what to do with it, but declaring it an exploit shows that there is a clear purpose behind the Navies to be obstructed.
It would help to know the reasoning and purpose behind a great many game mechanics and balance choices, and a statement of intent on such things via the Dev Blogs would be a great use of an underused resource.
[humor]As your beta-testers[/humor] once we know what your trying to do we can give better feedback on how well it is working and improve the quality of any suggestions we might put forward. Without that definition we can't tell what the intended features are, let alone what the bugs are.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.17 23:56:00 -
[82]
Thank god CCP's taken at least *one* step in the right direction.
They're best bet is to make the Navy NPCs alot weaker than they already are so that a spawn *can* be tanked and destroyed just like a normal 0.0 belt spawn (whether they drop loot or not is a different arguable point). On top of that, if you warp away, rather than engaging the nearest target, whatever NPC's spawned for you should despawn and respawn at your location.
They could even keep the 10 spawn cap in then. In that case, I really wouldn't care if each spawn was being speed-tanked by a nano pilot or dps-tanked with the aid of a neutral repper (if they really needed it!). If swarm tactics work against the navy by simply outnumbering them and keeping them down or simply avoiding them, awesome. Just don't let that swarm be *one* pilot being remote-repped by some neutrals at a somewhere.
10 pilots tanking, fine. One pilot soaking, bleh, borked. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Oftherocks
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.17 23:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Before any real discussion of the Faction Navies can take place we need some kind of statement from CCP on what their exact purpose is.
This
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Victoria Ehr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.18 01:21:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon I find myself wondering if you're even vaguely aware of the isk, skillpoints, and time required to develop a navy-tanking system. I also find myself wondering if you realize how easy to disrupt that system it is - including when the people doing it aren't even militia targets.
Seriously. If you spent a tenth the effort thinking about ways to solve the problem yourself, rather than have CCP solve them, you would've scored quite a few very expensive kills by now, gone miles towards dissuading people from making these raids in the future, and earned some respect for a militia that badly needs it. I'm genuinely not trying to smack here. The reputation of the CalMil is "when raw numbers can't win, whine on the forums." This is an easy puzzle to solve if you look at all the pieces, and you could score some REALLY nice loot as a side.
Learn to beat it. Imitate it in Dodixie and Oursulaert and Hek and (insert Minmatar mission system here, don't know it offhand, sorry.) The Navy isn't going to provide the kind of security you want. You should know that by now - it's been made clear. Start providing it yourself. The system is pathetically easy to disrupt, and the rewards far outweigh the risk.
Step up and make a name for yourself on something other than the forum.
You are making quite a name for yourself Friedrick, your famous for destroying Bruce and now you have an exploit made for you,
17.7.2008 Exploit notification Using neutral characters to tank Faction Navy NPCs to stop them from attacking players involved in Factional Warfare with that faction is considered an exploit. Action will be taken against users found engaging in this activity.
*claps* well done man, your tact(ics) are epic -------------------------------------------- The path to power is up!
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Wayward Hero
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.18 03:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Wayward Hero
A Raven undocked, war target to the Gallente militia. The 'cane locked him down, and 5 or 6 other HACS and BC's decloaked right off of him.
Pretty much doubt they decloaked, as you cannot cloak in ennemy faction space (see whine threads about recons and bombers not working for highsec faction warfare). Invent a better story next time.
they probably undocked next to the raven.
omg, nerf undocking in high sec.
I had no idea you couldn't cloak in enemy faction space, so what Faife said is probably what was happening, they must have been docking up.
___________________________________________ The Forgotten Children of EVE |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.18 04:40:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Victoria Ehr Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 18/07/2008 01:49:45
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon I find myself wondering if you're even vaguely aware of the isk, skillpoints, and time required to develop a navy-tanking system. I also find myself wondering if you realize how easy to disrupt that system it is - including when the people doing it aren't even militia targets.
Seriously. If you spent a tenth the effort thinking about ways to solve the problem yourself, rather than have CCP solve them, you would've scored quite a few very expensive kills by now, gone miles towards dissuading people from making these raids in the future, and earned some respect for a militia that badly needs it. I'm genuinely not trying to smack here. The reputation of the CalMil is "when raw numbers can't win, whine on the forums." This is an easy puzzle to solve if you look at all the pieces, and you could score some REALLY nice loot as a side.
Learn to beat it. Imitate it in Dodixie and Oursulaert and Hek and (insert Minmatar mission system here, don't know it offhand, sorry.) The Navy isn't going to provide the kind of security you want. You should know that by now - it's been made clear. Start providing it yourself. The system is pathetically easy to disrupt, and the rewards far outweigh the risk.
Step up and make a name for yourself on something other than the forum.
You are making quite a name for yourself Friedrick, your famous for destroying Bruce and now you have an exploit made for you,
17.7.2008 Exploit notification Using neutral characters to tank Faction Navy NPCs to stop them from attacking players involved in Factional Warfare with that faction is considered an exploit. Action will be taken against users found engaging in this activity.
*claps* well done man, your tact(ics) are epic
Oh and mister high and mighty Fried, The State isn't desperate for respect, but you clearly are, keep bringing it FOO'M, just tried not to exploit this time.
lol. you think this is what we do? FOOM has not exploited any system and we do not conduct our high sec raids in the manner you apparently think we do. Search: Sky Grunthor |
Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.18 05:58:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 18/07/2008 05:59:36 FOOM knew about this exploit from the beginning, and we never used it. Our systems (we have two or three now) require no one to risk being Concorded to stop us, and can be stopped by any Caldari militia member with the slightest bit of careful thinking. A little time and understanding of how Concord works, and you can plow our tactics over easily.
Sorry Victoria, but what FOOM does isn't covered here, and has never been a problem from CCP's point of view - our tactics can be easily countered by any Caldari force that can be bothered. Since no such force exists, you'll have to continue shedding tears. I dare say CCP isn't likely to do anything about stopping a tactic that one Caldari militiaman in a cheap ship can disrupt, killing hundreds of millions of isk in ships.
But thank you for the applause. We will indeed keep bringing it, and we will indeed be in your highsec soon, again - not exploiting, just like before. :)
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Carrier Eleven
Gallente EVE Posting Service
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Posted - 2008.07.18 07:33:00 -
[88]
Caldary preferred tactic: 7000 squids crying copious tears in an attempt to flood their systems and drown the enemy!
Hasn't worked yet, but man look at em go!!!
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.18 08:48:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/07/2008 08:54:14
Originally by: Thorradin
Sounds like someone's bitter that they keep finding out their tricks aren't allowed.
I know 'skilled' players like yourself love finding kinks in the game so that when you get some highsec kills you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but your tears of "omg stop 'whining' and adapt(to exploits)" are just lovely. What will you do if/when ships in EVE have real AI, and the Caldari Navy actually starts making heavy use of its strength, you know, ECMing the sweet jesus out of everything? I already know how I'll counter the Gallente Navy Ewar.
They do that already, and cheat and using a flat chance with the same chance to blinding a frigate or a BS, regardless of the sensor strength of the ship sensors.
It is easy to counter Gallente EW, sensors boosters work against NPC sensors dampers, while ECCM don't work against NPC ECM.
Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/07/2008 15:19:39
Originally by: Esmenet Then why dont you make a "Caldari militia get your shit together" post instead.
Get WHAT shit together ? Do you mean "get all those minimal standings alts trained up for T2 ships instantly" ? Or would that be "force people to PvP in highsec when they were promised lowsec mindless fun" ? Oh, wait, you want all people who only CASUALLY try out PvP to LEAVE the militias ? Remind me again, what the funk was the purpose of FW again ? So how about I make a "shut your ignorant piehole" post instead ?
They mean "spend a lot of time rallying them so that the heavy amount of alts and spies everyone has in various militias can undermine it like they do most militia fleet ops".
You mean that "do nothing and whine on the forum" is better than "spend a lot of time rallying them"?
It is curious that Gallente, Minmatar and I think Amarr too can do militia fleet ops, Caldari, with the largest militia can't.
All the above have noob alts in the militia (I can confirm it, my noob alt is one of the Gallente noobs) so it is not a problem of the "quality2 of the militia members, it is the lack of someone willing to organize them (and as Caldari have the highest number of militia players, logic dictate that they will have a significant number of alt and spies in the other factions militias).
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.07.18 08:58:00 -
[90]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 18/07/2008 08:59:15 This is actually a bigger problem than just the fleet AI - it affects all AI in the game. Simply because there is none. In fact, I'm using this utter lack of AI as the basis for my PhD application for agent-based systems. Once I'm done maybe CCP will let me re-write the AI logic, because it's a complete state.
As an aside, that's why missions are so boring - not because the missions are all the same, but because the rats always behave the same way, and fit the same equipment. By making them adaptive it would increase the fun, and you'd never know what you were going to face - imagine finding a logistics cruiser being spawned to support a sniper rat BS in a mission! Imagine having to fit full PvP gear to PvE because you didn't know what you were going to face! Some of those things can be done right now.
As a further aside, I see no reason why missions can't be dynamically created - I've written code to emulate it, only took about five minutes.
In fact, does CCP have anyone looking at AI? You hear about HCI/GUI specialists, they've got a economics person in, what about the AI? The entire universe could be made alive with dynamic NPCs - not just the ships, but the corporations, too. Imagine if FW had happend by itself!
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
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