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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:17:00 -
[1]
As anyone who's tried to scan for people in a system with POS in it can testify the litter of unoccupied ships at the POS makes it a nightmare.
I suggest an overview option to remove unoccupied ships - which would then also translate on to directional scans. (Or even just an option in the directional - or something in the ship name to tell us if its unoccupied or not).
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.15 16:55:00 -
[2]
It must be annoying to someone other than me?
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Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.15 22:52:00 -
[3]
Aye. |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.16 01:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/07/2008 01:33:35 Most definitely /signed. It gets truly annoying trying to figure out if someone is a POS hugger and I should just move on, or if that ship on my scanner is actually unoccupied and the person I'm looking for is 20km off my starboard bow in a cloaked recon/black ops.
EDIT: Forgot to check the little Box of DoomÖ. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.16 03:14:00 -
[5]
Ships that aren't under the control of a player shouldn't show up on the scanner period imo. The minimal power usage wouldn't be found by anything short of how-powered probes, or the over view's close range sensors.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.16 06:44:00 -
[6]
It could be argued that cluttering a system with empty ships to hinder hostile scanning efforts is a valid counter-intelligence tool though. My initial reaction to this is that being able to filter empty ships from occupied ones makes scanning a little too easy, and that if you want to know if a specific ship has been abandoned you should probe it out and get on grid to take a look for yourself.
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.16 08:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon It could be argued that cluttering a system with empty ships to hinder hostile scanning efforts is a valid counter-intelligence tool though. My initial reaction to this is that being able to filter empty ships from occupied ones makes scanning a little too easy, and that if you want to know if a specific ship has been abandoned you should probe it out and get on grid to take a look for yourself.
That's an interesting argument - have you ever tried to scan out a belt ratter in a hostile system with multiple POS though? I wish I had some screenshots handy but I've actually seen cases where a 360 degree scan does not fit on one screen of the scanner (even expanded). Yes you can narrow that scan down but often the moons and belts are close enough together that it's virtually impossible.
Here is another example, you jump into a system and find a lone ship on the gate. There are 4 hostiles in local but you decide to risk engaging anyway for fun. You open the scanner and hit scan to see if there are any hostiles nearby...but oh look its useless because there is a POS nearby with 17 ships at it.
I can come up with other examples too but I'm sure you get the idea :)
Being able to find abandoned ships with the scanner is good, but being able to tell the abandoned from the occupied ones is essential.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2008.07.16 13:07:00 -
[8]
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Gaogan
Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:29:00 -
[9]
Yay!
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:42:00 -
[10]
this would most likely result in logged of ships no longer showing up. how would one get the loggofskis than? ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: darkmancer on 16/07/2008 19:05:53 Loggoffskiis ships are still occupied and so detectable.
Besides it should be a option to ignore unmaned ships. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Boomershoot
Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:26:00 -
[12]
nah, it's fine.
i'd rather make a mark to see if it occupied, instead of just removing unmanned ships from scanner.
or add some options to scanner.
/approved cus something must be done __________________________________________________ Not A Signature. Will be Replaced by A Signature Soon(tm) |
ceyriot
Entropians on Vacation
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:21:00 -
[13]
yes. /signed, and all that.
Faction Store - Killboard |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zikka That's an interesting argument - have you ever tried to scan out a belt ratter in a hostile system with multiple POS though? I wish I had some screenshots handy but I've actually seen cases where a 360 degree scan does not fit on one screen of the scanner (even expanded). Yes you can narrow that scan down but often the moons and belts are close enough together that it's virtually impossible.
Actually, I'm in c9n right now and Stain Empire have empty ships in POSs all over the damn place! It helps to move around the system and incrementally adjust angles and ranges, but yes, it's still difficult to find anything just with the directional scanner in that situation.
Some things should be difficult though, especially if your opponent has taken time and effort to make it so .
Quote: Here is another example, you jump into a system and find a lone ship on the gate. There are 4 hostiles in local but you decide to risk engaging anyway for fun. You open the scanner and hit scan to see if there are any hostiles nearby...but oh look its useless because there is a POS nearby with 17 ships at it.
Again, I think using empty ships to act as decoys is a pretty smart move, and not something that should be disallowed, especially when another means of figuring out which ships are empty and which are occupied (recon probe launcher and warping to look for yourself) already exists. -----------
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Petra Arkania
Ajo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.16 22:48:00 -
[15]
Make it an option.
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Dihania
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.17 08:53:00 -
[16]
Nice checkbox there will be good.
[hr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.17 10:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Zikka That's an interesting argument - have you ever tried to scan out a belt ratter in a hostile system with multiple POS though? I wish I had some screenshots handy but I've actually seen cases where a 360 degree scan does not fit on one screen of the scanner (even expanded). Yes you can narrow that scan down but often the moons and belts are close enough together that it's virtually impossible.
Actually, I'm in c9n right now and Stain Empire have empty ships in POSs all over the damn place! It helps to move around the system and incrementally adjust angles and ranges, but yes, it's still difficult to find anything just with the directional scanner in that situation.
Some things should be difficult though, especially if your opponent has taken time and effort to make it so .
Except that they haven't taken time and effort. They just haven't bothered to tidy up their POS and have left ships in space instead of in the maint bay.
Hell, bring back POS bowling and then we can steal them and they can store them in the maint bay instead of leaving them in space!
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Quote: Here is another example, you jump into a system and find a lone ship on the gate. There are 4 hostiles in local but you decide to risk engaging anyway for fun. You open the scanner and hit scan to see if there are any hostiles nearby...but oh look its useless because there is a POS nearby with 17 ships at it.
Again, I think using empty ships to act as decoys is a pretty smart move, and not something that should be disallowed, especially when another means of figuring out which ships are empty and which are occupied (recon probe launcher and warping to look for yourself) already exists.
The trouble is that all those things take far too much time - you can't realistically scan out a belt ratter or look for reinforcements coming to a fight or anything else which needs to give you the information in just a few seconds.
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Jim Raynor
Shinra
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Posted - 2008.07.17 10:13:00 -
[18]
add a toggle [x] Show unboarded ships
problem solved.
and yes it is annoying ------ I'll make a sig later. |
eliminator2
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.07.17 10:20:00 -
[19]
i agree fully
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.17 11:40:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zikka on 17/07/2008 11:41:18
Originally by: Jim Raynor add a toggle [x] Show unboarded ships
problem solved.
and yes it is annoying
Yup, that's almost exactly what I had in mind - although overview settings and/or another column showing the boarded status of scanned ships would both also fix the problem.
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Lucai
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.17 13:05:00 -
[21]
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A Whisper
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Posted - 2008.07.18 10:00:00 -
[22]
:)
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Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.18 10:05:00 -
[23]
Yeah, it's annoying, but I don't think you should be able to tell on scanner which ships are occupied. Just deal with it, keep towers on overview and learn to directional scan?
I hate signatures with no distinct break from the body of the post. |
Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.18 13:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kelron Queldine Yeah, it's annoying, but I don't think you should be able to tell on scanner which ships are occupied. Just deal with it, keep towers on overview and learn to directional scan?
I have towers on overview, I can directional scan.
Belts and moons both orbit the same planet.
Simple example, jump into a system. One hostile, hit scan.
Right, we have 3 ravens, 4 ishtars, a falcon, 5 belts, 2 planets and 2 control towers.
Aim for first planet, scan: 1 raven, 2 ishtar, 2 belts, 1 planet, 1 tower.
Aim for second planet, scan: 2 raven, 2 ishtar, falcon, 3 belts, 1 planet, 1 tower.
Warp to first planet. Use directional again. Ahhh ok, all the ships are in the tower.
Warp to second planet, use directional. They are all in the tower there too - because the raven that was in the belts has had 3 minutes of you warping around eliminating empty ships in which to safe up.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.18 17:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zikka
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Some things should be difficult though, especially if your opponent has taken time and effort to make it so .
Except that they haven't taken time and effort. They just haven't bothered to tidy up their POS and have left ships in space instead of in the maint bay.
Unless you have an alt in Stain Empire or have asked them yourself, you don't know what their reasons are. And their reasons in that particular case are irrelevant: using decoy ships at a POS to lure roaming gankers into a trap (or just make them waste time chasing shadows) is a valid defensive strategy for those willing to spend time setting it up, and you're seeking to nerf it for no particularly compelling reason other than that the basic directional scanner only gives you basic information and you don't want to spend 35 seconds probing.
Quote: Hell, bring back POS bowling and then we can steal them and they can store them in the maint bay instead of leaving them in space!
POS bowling is not the only way to get at hostile ships inside a forcefield (ask Roadkill about their password security).
Quote: The trouble is that all those things take far too much time - you can't realistically scan out a belt ratter or look for reinforcements coming to a fight or anything else which needs to give you the information in just a few seconds.
Against a ratting BS who is awake its virtually impossible to enter system and catch them in a belt anyway - if they're watching local and sensible with their actions and fittings they'll be warping out by the time you decloak on the gate, especially if they have a working intel channel to forewarn them of roaming hostiles. -----------
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NanDe YaNen
The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.07.18 18:47:00 -
[26]
It's annoying as hell to the attacker and defender if there is actual action going on, so it's not a defensive strategy in the sense of actual defense.
The fact that you have a POS to leave ships at means what you should be using for protection against the lone raider is the POS instead of a pile of trash at your POS to buy you time for being lazy and unaligned.
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Grann Thefauto
Minmatar Running with Knives
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Posted - 2008.07.18 18:48:00 -
[27]
No. There's no reason why the directional scan should give a 100% accurate assesment of the tactical situation. It needs to leave some room for actual recon work and skill. Its quite easy to figure out whats in a POS and what isn't, just takes a couple more seconds.
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WishBlade
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:18:00 -
[28]
/... Signature |
Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.20 19:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grann Thefauto No. There's no reason why the directional scan should give a 100% accurate assesment of the tactical situation. It needs to leave some room for actual recon work and skill. Its quite easy to figure out whats in a POS and what isn't, just takes a couple more seconds.
As its so easy surely you won't mind sharing this insight with us?
In 'a couple more seconds' you have no time to warp anywhere...so in the situation where you have multiple POS, belts, and moons on scanner - potentially even in the same 5 degree - how do you do this?
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.20 22:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kelron Queldine Yeah, it's annoying, but I don't think you should be able to tell on scanner which ships are occupied. Just deal with it, keep towers on overview and learn to directional scan?
learn to directional scan learn to directional scan learn to directional scan learn to directional scan
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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