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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.15 22:02:00 -
[1]
For future Tournament announcements please join our in-game mailing list: EOH ANNOUNCE.
For those of you who don't know, the Eve Online Hold'Em thread can be found here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=681663
Eve Online Hold'Em is announcing a follow-up Tournament to the EVE Seris of Poker tournament held back in May. This will be a 1050 million ISK buy-in tournament with a minimum of 9 players, and no maximum. Due to the new Mavens 2.0 software this will be a true multi-table Tournament with tables that fold into each other. We love our new software =)
Tournament Time: 21:00 EVE time on Saturday the 19th of July.
★★★ Tournament Rules ★★★
The tournament will take place on Saturday the 19th of July at 21:00 EVE Time. If we do not have 9 participants by then, the tournament will be pushed back exactly one week, to the 26th of July.
The Buy-In for this Tournament is 1050 Million ISK, with all buy-ins to be directed towards Selene D'Celeste with 'TOURNAMENT BUYIN' as the reason. As before, 50 Million ISK from each Buy-In is rake for the House, and the other 1 Billion ISK goes into the prize pot. The payouts for this tournament will be three places, with 50% / 30% / 20% of the pot going to First, Second, and Third respectively.
For anyone wondering, we will not be using Chribba, as this extra precaution seems no longer necessary since many of you have played with us now and should know how the service works, and also since many of you have entrusted us with multiple tens of billions in deposits for our Ring game feature. If anyone would like to buy-in but have concerns with this setup, please contact me via evemail, convo, or post and we will try to work something out.
If you are participating or buying in last minute please join channel EOH Tournaments. We appreciate early buy-ins as this allows us to show participation in this thread and to encourage others to come and play.
★★★ How to Buy Into the Tournament ★★★
To buy into this tournament please send 1050 Million ISK to Selene D'Celeste with 'TOURNAMENT BUYIN' as the reason.
I will add names to the list below as they are received. Please evemail myself if you have any questions or for confirmation/clarification.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.15 22:03:00 -
[2]
★★★ Other Conditions ★★★
If a participant pays and does not show up to the tournament to play, they will be refunded 1000 Million ISK, with the rest retained for dealing with scheduling. If we are unable to meet the minimum of a full table of nine, all participants will be refunded in full unless the active participants agree at the time of the tournament to continue anyway.
The Poker Mavens software can sometimes experience lag issues and the occasional client bugs do exist. We highly recommend that all players use our service to get used to our software in order to be prepared to hastily deal with any technical difficulties that may arise during play. Before the tournament starts we will have a brief testing period where we will make sure that all participants can play on our tables without issues on their client. If we are unable to resolve a player's issues, we will refund them in full and ask them to step out of the tournament in order to allow others to play. This will be done before an official start to ensure a game for such a large amount of money goes as smoothly as possible.
In the unlikely event of server death, we will deal with this as we do normal games: anyone who has dropped out of the tournament has lost their buy-in, and the pot will be split evenly among all surviving participants. We do not allow refunds in case of disconnects unless the player has nearly all starting chips and it is within the first few hands, in order to prevent abuse.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.15 22:04:00 -
[3]
List of Registered Players:
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18.
Cancellation / Refund
1.
No Show / Late
1.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.15 22:10:00 -
[4]
And for those of you who can't afford a Billion ISK, we haven't forgotten about you. By the end of the summer I hope to truly see the Mavens 2.0 multi-table functionality in play and to host a large (50+ players, can we do it?) tournament with a buy-in of 105 Million ISK. Please use this thread for both feedback, questions, confirmations and other posts concerning the 1.05 Billion ISK tournament. Leave me evemails or post in the main forum thread if you are interested in a 105m Tournament, so I can gauge demand.
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.16 00:18:00 -
[5]
I haven't played tournaments since the ring game software existed, so here's a simple newbie question: Can we dodge a double rake by paying the tournament buy-in with chips we already have in our account on the cash tables?
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Zanphear
SIEGE. The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.07.16 00:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zhecao Vai I haven't played tournaments since the ring game software existed, so here's a simple newbie question: Can we dodge a double rake by paying the tournament buy-in with chips we already have in our account on the cash tables?
no, the chips you get on the tournament tables are preset chips for each tornament and have nothing to do with the cash game chips.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.16 15:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zanphear
Originally by: Zhecao Vai I haven't played tournaments since the ring game software existed, so here's a simple newbie question: Can we dodge a double rake by paying the tournament buy-in with chips we already have in our account on the cash tables?
no, the chips you get on the tournament tables are preset chips for each tornament and have nothing to do with the cash game chips.
Correct, this has no connection to the Ring games so this is handled separately.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:53:00 -
[8]
Somehow I missed this thread. I guess this isn't going to happen now?
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Somehow I missed this thread. I guess this isn't going to happen now?
I was too distracted to advertise it at all this week, date updated to the secondary date (which I expected to be the real date) and I will work this week to get the word out.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.21 02:33:00 -
[10]
Up to the top. Let's at least get a table of 9 for the big money =)
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:31:00 -
[11]
Bump. I'm guessing with Ring games now there's not as much interest for a game on this scale? Feedback please =)
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Jack McDonges
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.23 20:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Bump. I'm guessing with Ring games now there's not as much interest for a game on this scale? Feedback please =)
I'll be perfectly honest: I keep my poker bankroll entirely in Mavens right now, and I don't have enough liquid ISK in-game to buy in straight. I'd almost certainly buy-in if I could use Ring Game ISK/chips without getting double raked.
I'm sure this could be done for a special event like this, but since it can't/shouldn't be done for regular tourneys, I understand not making special exceptions and setting a bad precedent.
So, not really complaining. I understand. I'm just explaining why I'm not buying in (at least unless I manage to have a few exceptionally good days at the tables :P).
- Jack/Angelus Damelon
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.23 22:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 23/07/2008 22:13:24 Although I don't have the bankroll to be willing to play a 1-billion-isk buyin tournament, I would be much much more likely to play in low- and medium-stakes tournaments if the tournament chips could be taken out of my ring account without being double-raked. As of right now, I don't ever play in them, because, like Jack, I am not interested in taking an extra 10% hit for isk transfers (5% withdrawing from my ring game account, and 5% depositing back any winnings that I earn) on top of the built-in entry fee rake.
Just a thought :)
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.23 23:04:00 -
[14]
I didn't realize now that there are Ring ISK accounts that people prefer that over a manual system. In the end it's less overall rake for a Tournament setup not using Ring chips, so I don't see how you all are losing other than investing all of your liquid into the Ring accounts being the issue.
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Jack McDonges
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.23 23:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste I didn't realize now that there are Ring ISK accounts that people prefer that over a manual system. In the end it's less overall rake for a Tournament setup not using Ring chips, so I don't see how you all are losing other than investing all of your liquid into the Ring accounts being the issue.
I won't post a big post about my bankroll management etc, but I can elaborate in-game if you're curious. The main gist is that I didn't really invest most (certainly not all) of my liquid ISK into Ring accounts; rather, I spent more and more of the liquid ISK I'd set aside for poker as my Ring account balance went up. I never really kept much liquid ISK on hand before Ring other than the amount that was "only for Poker." Now that regular tourneys are rarer, there's just not much reason to keep more than a few hundred million liquid ISK around, so it gets spent on trading/GTCs/ships/whatever.
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.24 04:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste I didn't realize now that there are Ring ISK accounts that people prefer that over a manual system. In the end it's less overall rake for a Tournament setup not using Ring chips, so I don't see how you all are losing other than investing all of your liquid into the Ring accounts being the issue.
I want to keep the maximum amount of money I possibly can into my poker account, so that I can stay solvent at the highest possible stakes, which I can't currently do reliably. My "goal" is obviously to pay the minimum rake, which means that I pay 5% rake on the couple chips I bought to start and 5% rake on the rest of my winnings forever whenever I withdraw them.
If I wanted to play a 105M tournament, that's 5% withdrawal rake to get the money out of my account, which I don't mind, since I'll pay that 5% eventually anyway. Then it's 5% more rake for the entry fee (100-->105.) Then, if I do need to invest that back into my poker account, which is possible because I'm poor, it's 5% deposit rake and another 5% withdrawal rake when it comes back out someday. That means that tournaments are either costing me 5% more (at best) or 15% more (if I'm unlucky) than ring games do.
It seems to me like it would be fair to let folks pay for tournaments in chips, since you're already making a 5% rake if someone buys the chips fresh, and you could pay them back in chips, meaning a guaranteed 5% rake when someone withdraws them.
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Siren Sylvanis
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.24 08:48:00 -
[17]
I second this idea. It wouldn't be that hard to remove 1050 chips from someone's account and count them as regged for the tourney, and Zhecao has a good point about the rake system and how hard it punishes people who want to keep an active chip balance and an isk roll for tourneys. --- What doesn't manage to kill you... has made a tactical error.
That is a Templar, an Amarr fighter. It is a combat drone used by carriers. |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.24 14:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Siren Sylvanis I second this idea. It wouldn't be that hard to remove 1050 chips from someone's account and count them as regged for the tourney, and Zhecao has a good point about the rake system and how hard it punishes people who want to keep an active chip balance and an isk roll for tourneys.
Okay so I'm just not thinking with the new system. So here's my major concern. Say we charge 1 bil worth of Ring chips to enter. In order for registering to have any real meaning, we're still going to have to deduct the amount upon registering and not at the time of the tournament, and to have a small fee for those who don't show. Otherwise there is no way to coerce people to register, and then actually show up, knowing we have X people. Since EVE does not have the luxury of tapping into thousands of gamblers at any one point in time (demand < supply), I believe that saying "Tournament for X on Y day, uses Ring chips, show up to play" would epicly fail as well.
Thoughts?
I'm going to cancel this event and use this thread for a brief discussion on the issue, and then have it closed in a few days.
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CetusOfAsuran
well of Urd
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:54:00 -
[19]
could we open up maybe 1 or 2 of the tourney tables for chip play? we keep majority for the main channel games but giving people the option then to organise games themselves, use chips in their account and play when us overworked underpaid bankers arent around .
As for using ring chips as the deposit for the big one, how about a non-refundable deposit to reserve your seat in the tournament. 100mil paid upfront towards the total cost of entry paid from non chip source. The rest to be paid on the day by either isk deposit or chip deposit. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=792173&page=2 |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.24 21:44:00 -
[20]
The "refundable deposit" idea could work if I asked for 50m up front, to be refunded if they show up for the tournament. Alternatively, and working with instead of against the Ring concept, I could simply pull 1 bil in chips from anyone who registered, mark them down as being in the tournament, and if they register but don't show, I'd just refund 0.95 back into the accounts. Y/N?
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Zhecao Vai
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.24 22:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste The "refundable deposit" idea could work if I asked for 50m up front, to be refunded if they show up for the tournament. Alternatively, and working with instead of against the Ring concept, I could simply pull 1 bil in chips from anyone who registered, mark them down as being in the tournament, and if they register but don't show, I'd just refund 0.95 back into the accounts. Y/N?
Makes sense to me.
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Jack McDonges
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.24 23:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste The "refundable deposit" idea could work if I asked for 50m up front, to be refunded if they show up for the tournament. Alternatively, and working with instead of against the Ring concept, I could simply pull 1 bil in chips from anyone who registered, mark them down as being in the tournament, and if they register but don't show, I'd just refund 0.95 back into the accounts. Y/N?
Well, it'd actually be 1.05bil (10500 Ring Chips) / 1bil (10000 Ring Chips) refunded. 50mil (500 Chips) would still be the proper rake on top of the 1bil (10000 Chips) fee.
But yeah, that was essentially how I was thinking it could be done for "special" tourneys. It'd essentially be treated as a special "rake free" withdrawal that goes directly to you for the buy-in.
I figured you might be hesitant to do this simply because it sets precedent. It wouldn't cause you much work for this small of an event, but it would cause a decent amount of work for a smaller multitable, like a 250mil or something. And you'll inevitably have people asking for Ring chips to be usable for big heads up tourneys, or regular tourneys, etc, etc. Obviously you could limit it strictly to select special events, but I imagine you'll still have a few people here and there who expect the exception to extend to whatever their situation is.
Another problem (that I hadn't thought of): assuming someone buys-in with Ring chips, where do the winnings go -- do they get paid in ISK, or in Ring chips?
The most fair arrangement would be, I think, that up to 1bil (originally buy-in, minus rake) would be required to be re-added to their Ring account (and thus subject to the 5% cashout rake), and any winnings above that would be paid out in-game (therefore not subject to 5% cashout rake -- although it would be subject to 5% deposit rake if they wanted to add it into their Ring account, just like it would be for anyone who won the tournament with a straight ISK buy-in).
The reasoning behind this "original buy-in goes back into Ring, the rest is paid in ISK" is that a full ISK payout would essentially give the person a 1bil cashed out of Ring without paying a withdrawal rake; a full payout in Ring chips would subject them to 5% rake on winnings that those buying in with ISK would not face.
I hope that makes sense, it was poorly worded.
Being perfectly honest, the easiest thing in terms of buy-in and payout mechanics would be to remove rake from all tourneys (specials, regulars, heads up, whatever) and have all games paid for with Mavens chips, still subjected to deposit/withdrawal rakes.
I have no idea whether that'd be wildly unpopular among most players; I'd imagine it'd be wildly unpopular among bankers, but you'd know better than I would. And I don't know how your banking system/operation is set up exactly, so I don't know if that'd cause additional complications that would make more problems than it's worth.
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.25 05:09:00 -
[23]
Good feedback so far. Does anyone new (not having spoken yet) have anything to add here?
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.07.25 05:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Good feedback so far. Does anyone new (not having spoken yet) have anything to add here?
Sure.... 1+1=2. ok I'm done.
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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CetusOfAsuran
well of Urd
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jack McDonges alot of sense and nonsense
Think really payout could be done on persons preference, isk or chips, neither should cause problems. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=792173&page=2 |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.07.27 18:00:00 -
[26]
Okay we'll better organize this next time then. Might as well close this one =)
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