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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.17 12:39:00 -
[1]
So one thing that makes this game pretty great is the fact that over time you can get into better ships and have more power behind those ships. But I have been thinking that unfortunately while at the same time it makes it great it might turn off the newer players to eve. This game is dominated by the older players with no way of anyone new coming tot he game of really competing. I thought that maybe if some kind of newb player areas were introduced that perhaps it would bring more folks to eve. get them into the action faster. and I don't mean like high security space I mean like newb low sec or some such where those nwere to eve could pvp each other without the older players poping them or harassing them till they are ready to get out into that kind of thing. Alot of the newer players I believe get turned off by the fact that it takes so long to get anywhere even close to the older players and they can hardly compete in anything like pvp or what not with them. This game certainly takes a long while to get into alot of exciting things but I believe if some newb areas were introduced it would be alot more interesting right off the bat.
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Lia Gaeren
Caldari Pole Dancing Vixens
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Posted - 2008.07.17 13:38:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ciryc Lagrej So one thing that makes this game pretty great is the fact that over time you can get into better ships and have more power behind those ships. But I have been thinking that unfortunately while at the same time it makes it great it might turn off the newer players to eve. This game is dominated by the older players with no way of anyone new coming tot he game of really competing. I thought that maybe if some kind of newb player areas were introduced that perhaps it would bring more folks to eve. get them into the action faster. and I don't mean like high security space I mean like newb low sec or some such where those nwere to eve could pvp each other without the older players poping them or harassing them till they are ready to get out into that kind of thing. Alot of the newer players I believe get turned off by the fact that it takes so long to get anywhere even close to the older players and they can hardly compete in anything like pvp or what not with them. This game certainly takes a long while to get into alot of exciting things but I believe if some newb areas were introduced it would be alot more interesting right off the bat.
If only there was something like... oh, I don't know... a Faction Warfare system where the ship sizes were limited to cheap low end craft, making it easier for new players to compete on the same playing field as older players, learn some starter PvP skills and get generally get their feet wet.
If only, eh?
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.17 15:08:00 -
[3]
ah but thats where your wrong. The faction warfare system also has other more skilled players competing in it. What im talking about is with only those players of the lower skill in the area not all the players. a small cheap ship fitted with T2 is still fairly destructive.
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Karille
Gallente Lordless
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Posted - 2008.07.17 15:10:00 -
[4]
Join. A. Player. Corp. _________________________________________________________
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.17 15:24:00 -
[5]
Perhaps but what the point of what I am suggesting is to make the game alittle more interesting at first. Joining a corp sure it MIGHT be interesting depending on the corp. and alot of new players dont nessacerily want to join a play corp at first. They are too shy, too good for it, want to get acclimated or whatever to the game first. I remember the first corp I was in it wasn't all that exciting...rat here etc etc. I personally think the best thing about this game is pvp but the newer folks cant compete with the older players in that at all and end up leaving or just not signing on anymore even if they are in a player corp because they are blown out of the sky easily.
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Karille
Gallente Lordless
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:43:00 -
[6]
That's the funny thing about eve. Everyone is blown out of the sky easily.
Finding a corp who will run pvp gangs isn't that hard especially now that faction warfare exists. All you have to do is get in a frigate, join a gang, and hope someone else is primary. _________________________________________________________
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:42:00 -
[7]
yes everyone is but when your new to eve and all you do is get blown out of the sky it becomes very difficult to find reasons to stay. and as for joining a corp and such well some can do it some cannot all depends on circumstance and well I just would not rather leave it up to circumstance anymore. I think that adding areaas that only newer players can go into would make it easier for them to get into fighting rather than having to join or such.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.18 09:18:00 -
[8]
First thing's first, you need to learn how to hit the enter button and make paragraphs. Grammar wouldn't hurt you either.
Second, over twenty thousand players have already gone through the "noob" mess you're talking about. This is a sandbox game, every time you're going to try something new it'll be in different places around EvE and it just doesn't make sense to make 'noob-only' areas.
If you don't want to be blown up, stay in high sec and get the experience you need in order to not get blown up. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.18 19:11:00 -
[9]
ignoring the grammar comment seeing as it is irrelevant.
Why doesn't it make sense? Getting experience takes alot of time which is just fine but it is not fine for the fact that it wont keep a lot of potentially long term players interested in the game before hand.
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Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.18 21:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ciryc Lagrej ignoring the grammar comment seeing as it is irrelevant.
Why doesn't it make sense? Getting experience takes alot of time which is just fine but it is not fine for the fact that it wont keep a lot of potentially long term players interested in the game before hand.
The n00b areas already exist. 1.0 through .5 systems. They are in a NPC corp immune from war decs. The only thing have to worry about in these systems are suicide ganks (in which they at this stage, they should have little or nothing to give reason to get ganked) and their own stupidity.
I mean how much codling do you think is needed?
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:27:00 -
[11]
I'm talking about noob low sec areas as well though. Call it what you will but I think it would get more folks interested in this game if they could face those of their own or similar skill and SP lvl. Give them something to do and yet have it so that what they do doesn't mean immediate explosion for exploring the funner aspects of this game. I would rather help them then hinder them to have more folks in this game.
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Dominin
Gallente Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.07.19 01:12:00 -
[12]
I joined a corp and have been having a great time in low security space.
Quote: Alot of the newer players I believe get turned off by the fact that it takes so long to get anywhere even close to the older players and they can hardly compete in anything like pvp or what not with them.
If some new players don't enjoy the game because they haven't any patience then their leaving is no big loss. I manage to compete. Not very well but getting blown up is half...ok, so a quarter maybe....of the fun. One of the best things about EVE is that you can go anywhere you've got the b@lls to go and the other guy's got the right to kill you if you do.
If a new player wants to play against others on a level playing field then he can go to the test server. -or- He can join a corp and learn in a group with mentors. -or- He can have patience.
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.19 01:14:00 -
[13]
alright I understand where your coming from and I don't really have any arguments against that as that is your opinion about it but I must say I just don't see it that way
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.21 23:58:00 -
[14]
Its called high sec. . . ----
GO BLUE!! |
Ishkur
Policy Research Group
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Posted - 2008.07.22 16:22:00 -
[15]
I think EVE needs a smoother transition from the actual newbie tutorial and then the rest of the game.
I think the agent mission system from levels 1-3 should actually *teach* about the game mechanics, and not just send you flying around space. Isn't that an interesting concept?! For example, you might get a skillbook as a reward and then some description about how it works. Maybe you'd need to use a particular skill along the way... Something to that effect.
The problem with EVE is that it has a huge learning curve. That's really not a *bad* problem -- it's more fun than being simplistic. But it is also a deterrent to new players, one that CCP should be eager to resolve, if only from a bottom-line standpoint.
But it would also make the game more fun for the rest of you if a way can be found to teach people more of the fundamentals before they are doing L4 missions without knowing what a target painter is or how to use one.
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Baifang
Gallente Stormfront A.W.
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Posted - 2008.07.23 10:40:00 -
[16]
Hi Circyc,
As a new player myself, having only just reached 1mil SP today, I can in some ways relate to your arguments, but I believe the essential problem here is a question of mentality; specifically the mindset of a new player when approaching the EVE MMO concept and build as a whole. I will digress a little and get to that a little further if you don't mind indulging me.
Straight off the bat, this game is not easy. It's not hard, but its not easy. Tutorial is definitely helpful, and it covers the essentials. The rest comes from experience, the rookie channel and a little further, from the corp mates you make, as well as non corp buddies you meet and befriend along the way. It is clear from the get go the emphasis is on you- no silly NPC ships with glowing green question marks above their head, no stupid quests to get "x" amount of "y item" to create "z anime scenario" for +100% xp gain.
Self reliance is the name of the game. Adapt, struggle, push, learn and enjoy. EVE solves the endless problem of "lack of endgame content" by being without a endgame scenario. People have been playing for years and I've yet to see even a percentage claim that they have reached "the end" and have nothing left to do.
I referred to mentality earlier. No MMO should cater to every single potential player and personality type in my opinion. EVE caters to a specific type, and does so exceedingly well. This game requires an inquiry and persistant mentality, a personality who appreciated and, dare I say, demands that not everything is handed to you on a gold plate, but rather wants to earn through time and effort the appropiate rewards.
There are no shortcuts in this game. Consider even the ISK economy. It doesnt matter that a new player on day 1 could purchase a billion ISK from some farming website. What are they gonna do with it except have access to only what they learnt to have access to?
I appreciate this game is not for everyone. And yes, it can scare away those looking for a simple challenge. But not all of us are here for an easy and short ride to power and some half baked status easily acquired. Eve is not a MMORPG.
Its a simulation, an enviroment, modelled in fiction but paralled in build with a reality close to RL.
I dont want an easy ride. I want a challenge. I want to earn my status and reputation in this simulation by effort, perseverance and intent. This game reserves that simple quality which has so escaped SO much of the online content:
The satisfaction of accomplishment.
I hope you stay Ciryc, and anyone else who has been challenged by this game. I thank you for at least having the patience to read through this, if you did, and will go off and struggle some more in game, loving every second of it. I hope you will join me there mate.
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Ciryc Lagrej
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Posted - 2008.07.24 01:24:00 -
[17]
I am not a new player player myself I've been on here for a few years. I was just rather concerned about alot of the complaints that my friends who *would've played the game brought up. and I like how you explained it all and such and I agree just what I still would like to see implemented are better ways of getting new players involved quickly rather than it taking forever. Yes it is very different from many other games which is its boon and its bane. I think though that if just abit more immediate action would keep more people interested early on.
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Farrqua
Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.24 01:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ciryc Lagrej I am not a new player player myself I've been on here for a few years. I was just rather concerned about alot of the complaints that my friends who *would've played the game brought up. and I like how you explained it all and such and I agree just what I still would like to see implemented are better ways of getting new players involved quickly rather than it taking forever. Yes it is very different from many other games which is its boon and its bane. I think though that if just abit more immediate action would keep more people interested early on.
Just sit in NPC chat for a litle bit. And you will see all the crap that fills these new players heads. And the crap is coming from these guys/gals that has NEVER left the NPC system let a lone ventured anywhere outside of their comfort zone.
Having noob zones would compound this I think.
Getting them involved earlier and quicker has little to do with overall SP and ooh shiny toys tbh. It has more to do with being social and able to work with in the system. There are plenty of noobs that flourish much faster if they take the initiative. The ones that struggle are usually the ones not willing to put the effort in.
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Suboran
Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.27 11:58:00 -
[19]
Skillpoints dont dictate anything exept the most perfect situation. competeing with older players is all in the mind, a 3 year old player could be a complete idiot. it is just how you deal with it is what counts, and after a few months in the game you will have enough skillpoints to start leveling the playing field in that regard.
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Zaranya Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.28 22:40:00 -
[20]
I support your goal of making the game more fun for newcomers. The game is boring at the beginning. However, newb only zones might not be the best method. I think the problem is not that newbs can't compete, eventually they can when they finally understand some of the complexities of EVE, it is just that there is not a whole lot of satisfaction when starting the game.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.08.29 18:52:00 -
[21]
NO NOOB AREAS.
EVE shouldnt be a game that holds your hand, in any way. [/url] |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.09.08 14:43:00 -
[22]
This is now WoW, SP does not equal "Pwning noobs". People with a lot of SP lose expensive shit in stupid ways all the time.
That being said the game has a huge, very populated, and comfy newbie area called high sec. When you feel ready you should skip low sec altogether and move into 0.0, NPC 0.0 if you have to. Don't go out in your most expensive ship, don't try fighting the first thing you see, learn how to run. A large portion of this game seems to be terrified of leaving high/lowsec when even CCP states it would like more players to migrate into 0.0.
Also for the love of god learn to line break.
------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
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MoriaCZ
Caldari Elektrum Bullet
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Posted - 2008.09.12 21:41:00 -
[23]
wth? Just keep flying, just keep flying... :)
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booger goober
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Posted - 2008.09.23 12:32:00 -
[24]
i think this could be implemented. simply put, 1.0-0.5 to be carebear still-no change make 0.4-0.2(maybe just 0.3)to 0<5mill sp pvp only, if you have more, concord come along and say g'day. and 0.1-0.0 where its pretty well free game for anyone/anything. this way the 'noob' players can still pvp but with some safety from people with 30+mill SP that would just 1 shot them
thats my 2 bobs worth....now, i just need to find 2 people named bob
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Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.09.26 12:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: booger goober i think this could be implemented. simply put, 1.0-0.5 to be carebear still-no change make 0.4-0.2(maybe just 0.3)to 0<5mill sp pvp only, if you have more, concord come along and say g'day. and 0.1-0.0 where its pretty well free game for anyone/anything. this way the 'noob' players can still pvp but with some safety from people with 30+mill SP that would just 1 shot them
thats my 2 bobs worth....now, i just need to find 2 people named bob
So how do the carebears get from 1.0-0.5 to null sec, that would segregate a fair percentage of players considering that to get to high sec from null sec you cross low sec...
Quite simply put Eve already has the tools for new players to learn the game via the tutorial, missioning and now factional warfare. You already have new player zones i.e where you do your tutorials. Eve caters for a certain mind set and basically if your not going to be self sufficient you will get no where (excludes JITA scammers). My comments are my own and arent neccesarily anything to do with my corp.
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steejans nix
Amarr 0beron Construct Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2008.10.01 12:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ciryc Lagrej So one thing that makes this game pretty great is the fact that over time you can get into better ships and have more power behind those ships. But I have been thinking that unfortunately while at the same time it makes it great it might turn off the newer players to eve. This game is dominated by the older players with no way of anyone new coming tot he game of really competing. I thought that maybe if some kind of newb player areas were introduced that perhaps it would bring more folks to eve. get them into the action faster. and I don't mean like high security space I mean like newb low sec or some such where those nwere to eve could pvp each other without the older players poping them or harassing them till they are ready to get out into that kind of thing. Alot of the newer players I believe get turned off by the fact that it takes so long to get anywhere even close to the older players and they can hardly compete in anything like pvp or what not with them. This game certainly takes a long while to get into alot of exciting things but I believe if some newb areas were introduced it would be alot more interesting right off the bat.
This would be about the worse thing for new players ever !
You will shelter them in the early days when they basically pvp on a lvl playing field just against similar sp pilots making them feel nice and safe in their ignorance. Then when they feeling uber in a bc or a bs with 3 mil sp's or whatever you turn them out of this safe hunting ground of low sp players and low and behond a pilot in a cruiser or even a frig comes along and tears them a new one, losing them a expensive fit bc or bs thus pulling the rug completely out from under their feet and making them drown in the knowledge that all the learned up to then is not a lot of use and they got to go back to frigs and cruisers themselves as just lost all the ships and isk they made up to this point.
Better they put a time limit on being in npc corps and get players in player run corps where they can learn the trade they choose under guidence and mentorship of others.
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