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Nikita Alterana
Gallente Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:31:00 -
[1]
No, highsec should not be safe, yes I shouldn't fly into Jita carrying billions of isk in a shuttle, and yes freighters should be hard to move around. BUT, suicide ganking is not the answer, regardless of whether your a gankie or a ganker, you should agree that its a very strange, unrealistic mechanic, it makes no sense from an RP perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective. I understand CCPs desire for a dark universe, and there should be a mechanic that allows for highsec robbery, ganking and murder. But the mechanic of avoiding Concord just long enough to kill something is fairly stupid. In fact the entire operation of Concord is fairly stupid, they should act like a real police force, with the same strengths and fallacies, I understand that they are supposed to protect you in highsec, but their AI is stupid, and the mechanic behind them (dropping tons of ships on you instantly) isn't a good way of running them. I'm not saying it should be easy to avoid a concordokken, but at the same time It shouldn't be impossible. Concord is stupid and suicide ganking is simply exploiting that stupidity. There should be a mechanic where players can pirate in highsec and sometimes avoid capture, but the current suicide ganking mechanic is just bad. __________________________________________________ |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.19 07:34:00 -
[2]
once more... CONCORD DOES NOT DEFEND ANYONE... GET IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111oneoneoneleven
they just punish... and that works perfect.
suicide ganking is ok. tyvm
PS: no im not a suicide ganker myself... ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:01:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/07/2008 08:02:53
Concord magically popping up like superman is something I would change personally if I was in charge of Eve. They should warp in like a gang and have good ships, and bring in reinforcements if they are taking casualties, but not have ships that cannot be killed or dps that is clearly many times more than a player ship. It doesnt make sense.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:02:00 -
[4]
no avoiding concord....
remember MOO!!!!!!
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mika Meroko no avoiding concord.... remember MOO!!!!!!
It was a completely different game back then too.
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Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
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Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:04:00 -
[6]
/wall of text did not read
Btw: Its a perfectly good mechanic. If you are worried you will be ganked, heres what u can do: 1) Dont AFK 2) Bring a Logistics to web you and rep you 3) Stay docked
Remember:
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Taikun Brunel
Gallente Gecko Enterprises Teldar Paper
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Taikun Brunel on 19/07/2008 08:15:01
Originally by: Riho suicide ganking is ok. tyvm
Sure is. I agree.
However the REAL problem is insurance is broken. THIS situation makes the perception that suicide ganking is stuffed, which it is not.
Taikun
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Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taikun Brunel Edited by: Taikun Brunel on 19/07/2008 08:15:01
Originally by: Riho suicide ganking is ok. tyvm
Sure is. I agree.
However the REAL problem is insurance is broken. THIS situation makes the perception that suicide ganking is stuffed, which it is not.
Taikun
/agree
not to sound like a whiny carebear.... but insurnace is the broken thing here ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar /wall of text did not read
Btw: Its a perfectly good mechanic. If you are worried you will be ganked, heres what u can do: 1) Dont AFK 2) Bring a Logistics to web you and rep you 3) Stay docked
Remember:
Actually, a logistics repping doesnt really help.. considering most ganking last less than 10 secounds.. 1 (x4) cycle isnt gonna help much..
buffer tank is better imho....
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:28:00 -
[10]
Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed.
Until then, suicide ganking is the only way to introduce some risk to the npc corp mission runners with 6b CNR fits.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:30:00 -
[11]
No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana In fact the entire operation of Concord is fairly stupid, they should act like a real police force, with the same strengths and fallacies […] I'm not saying it should be easy to avoid a concordokken, but at the same time It shouldn't be impossible.
So, in other words, you want them to roam around the galaxy in limited numbers, and whenever they get the call, they start moving towards you using the same warp+startgate travel as everyone else…? And once they arrive, they will use pretty much the same equipment as everyone else, hoping that their larger numbers and coordination will be enough.
Also, only the closest available unit(s) will respond – if more are needed, they are pulled from elsewhere and have to travel to your location as well.
Put another way, you want:- Response times that can be counted in several minutes
- CONCORD ships that can easily be lured into traps and blown up
- The ability to divert every single CONCORD ship to a remote location so your big score can be done unmolested
- The ability to essentially put CONCORD out of business by reducing their assets to zero
…and yet, it seems you want to somehow reduce the number of attacks in high-sec at the same time. I hope you understand that, saying that CONCORD should work like the real police means that concordoken will not be "easy" to avoid – it will be impossible not to avoid unless you somehow manage to gank someone while you're AFK…
Quote: I understand that they are supposed to protect you in highsec
You understand wrong. They're not meant to protect you – they're meant to avenge you.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gamesguy Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed.
Until then, suicide ganking is the only way to introduce some risk to the npc corp mission runners with 6b CNR fits.
..... I am still curious... who uses those? (I have ship scanned alot of CNRs... and most of them are T2 fit...)
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 08:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Lothris Andastar /wall of text did not read
Btw: Its a perfectly good mechanic. If you are worried you will be ganked, heres what u can do: 1) Dont AFK 2) Bring a Logistics to web you and rep you 3) Stay docked
Remember:
Actually, a logistics repping doesnt really help.. considering most ganking last less than 10 secounds.. 1 (x4) cycle isnt gonna help much..
buffer tank is better imho....
yes while Buffer is generaly better, a freighter cant do that :p Also, Remote reps have a 5 second cycle time Stick 6 remote armour on a guardien and have fun :)
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Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 09:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana No, highsec should not be safe, yes I shouldn't fly into Jita carrying billions of isk in a shuttle, and yes freighters should be hard to move around. BUT, suicide ganking is not the answer, regardless of whether your a gankie or a ganker, you should agree that its a very strange, unrealistic mechanic, it makes no sense from an RP perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective. I understand CCPs desire for a dark universe, and there should be a mechanic that allows for highsec robbery, ganking and murder. But the mechanic of avoiding Concord just long enough to kill something is fairly stupid. In fact the entire operation of Concord is fairly stupid, they should act like a real police force, with the same strengths and fallacies, I understand that they are supposed to protect you in highsec, but their AI is stupid, and the mechanic behind them (dropping tons of ships on you instantly) isn't a good way of running them. I'm not saying it should be easy to avoid a concordokken, but at the same time It shouldn't be impossible. Concord is stupid and suicide ganking is simply exploiting that stupidity. There should be a mechanic where players can pirate in highsec and sometimes avoid capture, but the current suicide ganking mechanic is just bad.
Allow me to sympathise with the following thought:
Stop whining, you whiney whiner.
You lost a ship, you knew the risks, suck it up.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Zephyr Rengate
dearg doom
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Posted - 2008.07.19 09:32:00 -
[16]
Whining is a bad mechanic.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I will not liek human meat but the naerest I tried is human chesse. I don't want to tried again ...
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vaal Erit No to any form of pirating in high security space. New players should not be victim to older players with billions of disposable assets. New players are always needed to keep the game fresh and continuing on.
Except its not new players being suicide ganked, but rather stupid old players hauling billions around in a t1 hauler. So your point is moot.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed.
Until then, suicide ganking is the only way to introduce some risk to the npc corp mission runners with 6b CNR fits.
..... I am still curious... who uses those? (I have ship scanned alot of CNRs... and most of them are T2 fit...)
When I was in tri we ganked deadspace fitted CNRs several times a day, and this was just a small group of maybe 20-30 people doing it on a regular basis to fund their wallets.
Most are t2 fit/low end faction fit ya, but every now and then you run into the guy with gist xl boost and cn launchers and dread invuls etc.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:38:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/07/2008 10:38:45
Originally by: Malcanis CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
You know, you really should correct you signature to read
"CONCORD provide consequences which the SCC promptly negates, not safety; only you can do that."
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Gamesguy Suicide ganking should be nerfed hard when NPC corp protection/corp hopping to avoid wardecs is removed.
Until then, suicide ganking is the only way to introduce some risk to the npc corp mission runners with 6b CNR fits.
..... I am still curious... who uses those? (I have ship scanned alot of CNRs... and most of them are T2 fit...)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=708473&page=1
Video links have been removed by mitnal :(
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Armoured C
Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana There should be a mechanic where players can pirate in highsec and sometimes avoid capture, but the current suicide ganking mechanic is just bad.
YEAH THAT SUICIDE IS GANKING
you might not like it but you got to live with it concord doesnt provide saftey they only provide consequence and the conquencse of shooting someone in high sec is that you get blown up
if the agressors wern't blown up then there something to complain about
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:11:00 -
[22]
People wouldn't be suicide ganked if they didnt make themselve a target.
Putting 1 billion in an untanked badger with low slots and rigs filled with cargo expanders is not a good idea.
Putting 100 million in a blockade runner with rigs and low slots that help it align faster and a cloaking device is a good idea. Even if you do somwhow get ganked in it you won't end up losing everything.
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Dzajic
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:18:00 -
[23]
Only, and only thing that should be done about suicide ganking is to remove insurance payout if you get CONCORDEKEN. Its absurd. "Hi mister insurance guy, can I have my policy money, I lost my ship to the legitimate interstellar police fore that attacked me when I committed to criminal activity, please mister insurance guy?" |
ISK Fairy
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:31:00 -
[24]
umm if your so concerned about getting ganked just amke your selves less of a target by using cargo containers so the gankers dont know what they could be getting, but dont peanalize the gankers for the stupidity of the haulers who dont even try to hide the fact that they are hauling huge ammounts of isk around.
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ZyNinja
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:46:00 -
[25]
who cares!!! What make you think they (CCP) are listing to you. Trust me, they don't care. Give your stuff to someone else, I don't want it.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 19/07/2008 11:48:41
Originally by: Dzajic Only, and only thing that should be done about suicide ganking is to remove insurance payout if you get CONCORDEKEN. Its absurd. "Hi mister insurance guy, can I have my policy money, I lost my ship to the legitimate interstellar police fore that attacked me when I committed to criminal activity, please mister insurance guy?"
"Hi mister insurance guy, can I have my policy money, I lost my ship to a blob when I went off to fight a war in it".
Insurance is a game mechanic, it is not supposed to make sense.
-
DesuSigs |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Malcanis on 19/07/2008 11:55:08 Edited by: Malcanis on 19/07/2008 11:53:41
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 19/07/2008 10:38:45
Originally by: Malcanis CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
You know, you really should correct you signature to read
"CONCORD provide consequences which the SCC promptly negates, not safety; only you can do that."
Unless you've got someone providing you with free modules, and then bringing you assembled fitted ships on their own time, and then hopping in to their T3 Frigate and using a Light Remote Sec Status Repair III on you, you're flat out wrong.
You just don't think that CONCORD provides enough consequences is all.
But I look around hi-sec and see thousands of non-blues not shooting each other except when someone does something outrageously stupid like AFK highly valuable cargoes, and I think the balance is fine.
Since you obviously think that suicide ganking is too prevalent (which is fine), please provide arguments and data to show why it's too frequent. Seriously: I'm open to persausion here. If you can give me a more substantive argument than "waaah it's not fair THIS WILL KILL EVE", then I'd love to hear it.
On a side note, how much would be "too little", and how much would be "just right"? To this day, I've never found anyone able to tell me.
For my part, I infer from (as noted above) the near complete lack of combat interaction by non-WTs in Empire a good indication that CONCORD are a very good deterrent. Additionally, given that people - with old characters mark you - still fly around AFK with valuable cargos, it's difficult to avoid concluding that the absolute risk of being ganked is still too low to make people fly with the minimum of attention required to warp to 0km even if they have a hold full of BPOs or faction goodies.
As a final thought: gank ships are almost free because the only thing holding up the price of T1 ships is the insurance value. This indicates to me that there is a negligible effect on empire industry from ganking. If producers were seriously suffering, ship prices would rise as less capable builders were driven out of business. Industrialists aren't suffering from suicide ganking: missionbears are. I lack sympathy for hi-sec level 4 mission runners because I know myself how insanely lucrative and risk-free the process is. Hearing these guys whine that it's not safe to use A-type boosters and officer cap chargers any more is like hearing some guy cry that his youngest kid can't afford to drive his H2 any more because petrol taxes are too high. Petrol taxes are high, but you still want him to shut his whine-hole.
Disclaimer: I have never suicide-ganked anyone, although I've had it tried on me. It turns out that cloaked agility-rigged nanoViators piloted by someone with Evasive Maneuvering 5 and an agility implant are not so easy to gank. I run a billion ISK or so of T2 mods, faction ammo, implants right through the Jita region without worry, because I pilot my ship.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
We are Legend
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Malcanis on 19/07/2008 11:58:49
Originally by: Dzajic Only, and only thing that should be done about suicide ganking is to remove insurance payout if you get CONCORDEKEN. Its absurd. "Hi mister insurance guy, can I have my policy money, I lost my ship to the legitimate interstellar police fore that attacked me when I committed to criminal activity, please mister insurance guy?"
Virtually none of the reasons that "insurance" in EvE pays out for would merit so much as a reply from a RL insurance company.
Off-hand, about the only scenario that might would be corp theft, and even the the loss-adjusters would probably have you bent and spread when it came to negotiating the amount. And that's one thing you don't get insurance payouts for in EvE!
"So you gave this guy executive power of attorney over your mining ships, right...?"
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Gonada
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:30:00 -
[29]
DONT AFK
there solved
ohh wait, the happy faced-carebear WoW generation still cant understand this.
Please, jump into traffic
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente Apocalypse Ponies
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:51:00 -
[30]
Actually i would love for better concord mechanics, though to still have suicide ganking in the game.
EG make them ****ing hard to escape from (every system with a losec gate in it has more concord) When a hostile act is detected, one concord officer warps in and will call for reinfocrements where needed. Concord will also protect those who are innocent (remote reps) providing there is anything left. This makes up for their lacking DPS. Also, like a proper police force, they will give you the ability to "come quietly" and have your ship impounded, with the release charge being set as the cost of your crimes, along with less of a sec loss.
While it dosent do anything for suicide ganking, it makes concord more interesting. Better than the "lets spawn 10 ships there and shoot at it" mechanic.
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