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Tenzo
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Posted - 2004.05.25 22:49:00 -
[1]
This is my view - i know i will be in trouble for posting this but i feel i have to make my feelings known.
You have slated this Lottery on nearly all the threads - i just CANNOT understand some peoples way of thinking.
BIG has reserved the right to take a 10% cut - BIG has NEVER actually taken that 10% and BIG has never made any isk at all on the lottery.
BIG has not and will not EVER scam - this simply boils to morals and ethics. We just wouldn't and our track record shows this.
BIG has taken the opportunity to enrich the lives of more players rather than just one by spreading the jackpots out - surely you would be happier about this?
I do not think you understand the simply ASTOUNDING amount of effort Tornsoul puts into this. This guy is giving something to the EVE, and it is just Tornsoul, for no fee for no charge for nothing - just for the love of the game.
I will not and can not stand back and watch people slate the work and graft that Torn has put in. The guy is an enigma to me... he has started a corp that shares everything ( a risky thing to do in the world of EVE ) - and it has developed into a highly succesful Corp full of great people. He runs the BIG Lottery and the BIG Deal. Both highly succesful ventures in their own right. Both asking for the trust of every single customer. NEVER has he violated that trust.
From this Corp he has run an event that stretches that sharing ethic throughout the world of EVE....
And some of you have the gall to sit there and slate it all because the jackpot isnt what you thought it was going to be the first time round. The BIG Lottery is a good thing - a piece of harmless fun that has made the limelight and now is being slated because of its success - perhaps because changes were made that should or shouldnt have been.
Are some of you going to seriously sit there and say ' I wouldnt have entered knowing the jackpot was only going to be 1.75 Bill not 3.5 Bill'. Wake up and smell the freaking roses people.... sit back and re-evaluate your posts.
I know you are never going to please everyone but it winds me up to see the attitude of some of the posts.
Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
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nashi
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Posted - 2004.05.25 23:09:00 -
[2]
I will stand with Tenzo and second his statements.
- nashi another Proud member of BIG
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.25 23:33:00 -
[3]
Quote: Are some of you going to seriously sit there and say ' I wouldnt have entered knowing the jackpot was only going to be 1.75 Bill not 3.5 Bill'. Wake up and smell the freaking roses people.... sit back and re-evaluate your posts
Ok I have re-evaluated my post still think the odds is not in my favour with the new system. I wish you good luck with your new system but it's not for me and can I now have my money back. Since when I invested it you told me something diffrent. you have the right to change your mind but so have I.
And I don't think you will take any money from me or anything like that I just feel that BIG now might chance the deal when they so see fit and by doing that changing the odds for me compared to the guy that enters the next lottery because the next lottery will be payed for with part of my money no mather how many participate or if I can participate.
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Takari
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Posted - 2004.05.25 23:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Takari on 25/05/2004 23:53:13 I hate to walk into the middle of a multi part war but alas..
Originally by: Tenzo
Are some of you going to seriously sit there and say ' I wouldnt have entered knowing the jackpot was only going to be 1.75 Bill not 3.5 Bill'. Wake up and smell the freaking roses people.... sit back and re-evaluate your posts.
The problem here is that these people entered because they "knew" that the entire pot was going to be won in this next round of the lottery, they "knew" this because the rules said so. Whether one person wins it all or 100 people win a portion is not the argument. If they had "known" they were going to only be entering for a chance at the apoc and a share of 1.75bil alot of people would have still entered. I can't justifiably say "everyone" but a vast majority. The issue is that what people "knew" to be true based on previously stated rules was changed *after* they spent their money.
Quote: Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
Nor doesn't matter, there are lots of things I can't and/or won't do, does this effectively make it so that I am not allowed to comment on such things?
Takari
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DeathBunny
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Posted - 2004.05.26 04:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dubi
Quote: Are some of you going to seriously sit there and say ' I wouldnt have entered knowing the jackpot was only going to be 1.75 Bill not 3.5 Bill'. Wake up and smell the freaking roses people.... sit back and re-evaluate your posts
Ok I have re-evaluated my post still think the odds is not in my favour with the new system. I wish you good luck with your new system but it's not for me and can I now have my money back. Since when I invested it you told me something diffrent. you have the right to change your mind but so have I.
And I don't think you will take any money from me or anything like that I just feel that BIG now might chance the deal when they so see fit and by doing that changing the odds for me compared to the guy that enters the next lottery because the next lottery will be payed for with part of my money no mather how many participate or if I can participate.
Sorry to say maybe BIG's system was a little flawed with this drawing but what you expect from this being the first drawin? What I they did was probley the best way to do it giving more people to get a chance. Even though spliting it up in to a multi-lotto I might not be for its still cool.
Besides if you won the apoc would you still give it up and have them refund your money. Didn't think so.
Big congrats to BIG for putting up with all the abuse and keeping cool about it. Fear The Bunny
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 05:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DeathBunny
Originally by: Dubi
Quote: Are some of you going to seriously sit there and say ' I wouldnt have entered knowing the jackpot was only going to be 1.75 Bill not 3.5 Bill'. Wake up and smell the freaking roses people.... sit back and re-evaluate your posts
Ok I have re-evaluated my post still think the odds is not in my favour with the new system. I wish you good luck with your new system but it's not for me and can I now have my money back. Since when I invested it you told me something diffrent. you have the right to change your mind but so have I.
And I don't think you will take any money from me or anything like that I just feel that BIG now might chance the deal when they so see fit and by doing that changing the odds for me compared to the guy that enters the next lottery because the next lottery will be payed for with part of my money no mather how many participate or if I can participate.
Sorry to say maybe BIG's system was a little flawed with this drawing but what you expect from this being the first drawin?
This is hardly the first draw from BIG
Originally by: DeathBunny
What I they did was probley the best way to do it giving more people to get a chance. Even though spliting it up in to a multi-lotto I might not be for its still cool.
If you want to donate money for further events thats your business. personally I'd like to have a choise before I donate.
Originally by: DeathBunny
Besides if you won the apoc would you still give it up and have them refund your money. Didn't think so.
what does this have to do with anything. BIG didn't pay for the apocalypse and didn't earn anything. They should be glad that CCP chose to give them some free publicity.
Originally by: DeathBunny
Big congrats to BIG for putting up with all the abuse and keeping cool about it.
If anyone is putting up with abuse then its the players protesting TornSouls decision.
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Godless
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Posted - 2004.05.26 06:41:00 -
[7]
Well said Tenzo.
(Been hard not to get involved in all the other posts hasn't it...)
Godless.
Very proud member of BIG.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 07:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Godless Well said Tenzo.
(Been hard not to get involved in all the other posts hasn't it...)
Godless.
Very proud member of BIG.
lets have some more yes-men from BIG or affiliations of BIG telling how just and noble they are.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.05.26 07:21:00 -
[9]
Me and my Corp have no affiliation with BIG Nonamium
But well done to BIG and TornSoul for the way they have handled this lottery and for having the testicular fortitude to make a change that is for the best in the long run
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 07:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mrmuttley Me and my Corp have no affiliation with BIG Nonamium
congratulations!
Originally by: Mrmuttley
But well done to BIG and TornSoul for the way they have handled this lottery and for having the testicular fortitude to make a change that is for the best in the long run
did you pay the full 1M for an entry for the last round?... if so you're out 540k of that money, statistically speaking.
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Psiron
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Posted - 2004.05.26 07:48:00 -
[11]
I give up.
If you win.... blah blah blah the pot was not big enough... blah blah blah ..... I want it all.....
If you loose ..... blah blah blah It was rigged.... They changed the rules..... blah blah blah
A nice arrangment would be if you win, donate the money to me & ill refund your 1 million isk you paid originally as that way you have not spent any money. What did you expect from gambling. The money you pay to BIG you should expect to loose as no gambling is 100% win win (infact not even 1%)
When I entered, the pot was 1 billion. I like the idea of spreading it over a few lottery draws as it gives MORE chance of getting rich quick.
Oh and the fact that you loose out because they limited the pot size affects EVERYONE, not just you & I'm happy with that.
Keep up the good work BIG. |
NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 07:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Psiron I give up.
doesn't seem like it
Originally by: Psiron
If you win.... blah blah blah the pot was not big enough... blah blah blah ..... I want it all.....
If you loose ..... blah blah blah It was rigged.... They changed the rules..... blah blah blah
well put
Originally by: Psiron
A nice arrangment would be if you win, donate the money to me & ill refund your 1 million isk you paid originally as that way you have not spent any money. What did you expect from gambling. The money you pay to BIG you should expect to loose as no gambling is 100% win win (infact not even 1%)
Any serious gambler know that there are odds for a game, and if "the house" are manipulating the odds then its called... tadaaa... CHEATING!
Originally by: Psiron
When I entered, the pot was 1 billion. I like the idea of spreading it over a few lottery draws as it gives MORE chance of getting rich quick.
Good for you, now refund the money BIG to those who does not think this is a great idea
Originally by: Psiron
Oh and the fact that you loose out because they limited the pot size affects EVERYONE, not just you & I'm happy with that.
Yes, it affect the BIG corporation and the group of players who payed 3.8B isk for a lottery they later were told only has a value of 1.75B isk.
Originally by: Psiron
Keep up the good work BIG.
For the first and the last time... this is not as much about the money as it is about that BIG cheated the players. The broke an agreement and kept 2B isk to do with as they wish. It just so happens that they want to use the money for promotion of their lottery and as a safety buffer for the prizes on the lottery. I couldn't care less about what they use the 2B for... they scammed about 4000 players out of 2B isk. The short and the long of it.
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Gala Atomica
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Posted - 2004.05.26 08:13:00 -
[13]
BIG is the only corp I know who gave away free lab slots in the factory forum. So, start giving away yours then you can discuss who is greedy and who is not.
Originally by: Tenzo Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
I couldn't. It seems everyone here missed your question, Tenzo.
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.05.26 08:38:00 -
[14]
How do we know next lottery you won't turn around and say top prize is now capped at 100 million, you'll be using the left other money as buffer to make more millionares, the point is now you can change the rules whenver you liked, you could change the top prize to 100 isk for all we know.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 08:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gala Atomica BIG is the only corp I know who gave away free lab slots in the factory forum. So, start giving away yours then you can discuss who is greedy and who is not.
Originally by: Tenzo Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
I couldn't. It seems everyone here missed your question, Tenzo.
I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with most of the complaints written in the forum. The question is wether or not BIG cheated players out of a total prize pool of 3.8B isk. Not if this is hard for TornSoul or not. I'm sure that running a 4000 player event is though, but that's not the issue.
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Gala Atomica
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Posted - 2004.05.26 09:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: NoNamium
I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with most of the complaints written in the forum. The question is wether or not BIG cheated players out of a total prize pool of 3.8B isk. Not if this is hard for TornSoul or not. I'm sure that running a 4000 player event is though, but that's not the issue.
Oooh! It has a lot to do with the complaints written in the forum. The question is there are corps like BIG working HARD to make events like this and there are greedy players like YOU who are trolling the forums because it didn't go exactly the way you expected.
You can trust BIG, they have never cheated anyone so far and the devs said they would check carefully where goes the money so stop making noise, you are ridiculizing yourself and appear as a very greedy and little person in public.
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Erika Gracilus
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Posted - 2004.05.26 09:20:00 -
[17]
2 BIG and those, who tells about greed. Read this carefully.
If BIG announced at the start of lottery #27 that 50% going to the pot and 50% is donated for "future lotteries", 99% of current #27 round participants would enter anyway. I personaly would enter too. But in this situation, BIG forced people to donate 50% to "somebodies" future. By one man decision you forced people to participate in future. How do you know that all participants of #27 round planned to participate in that future? You didnt give peoples right to decide. You decided for 4000 people.
Just think about next decisions, BIG (and presonaly, TornSoul). Dont force people to do smth.
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Gala Atomica
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Posted - 2004.05.26 09:27:00 -
[18]
It's crazy, you guys obviously never organized anything. Sometimes you need to change some things, understand it. Organize an event this week end then come back tell us about it.
You whine because you will get ONLY 1Bisk if you win instead of 4? Come on... If it is not about greed what is it about?
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 09:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gala Atomica
Originally by: NoNamium
I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with most of the complaints written in the forum. The question is wether or not BIG cheated players out of a total prize pool of 3.8B isk. Not if this is hard for TornSoul or not. I'm sure that running a 4000 player event is though, but that's not the issue.
Oooh! It has a lot to do with the complaints written in the forum. The question is there are corps like BIG working HARD to make events like this and there are greedy players like YOU who are trolling the forums because it didn't go exactly the way you expected.
Exactly the way I expected. I didn't expect the rules of the game to be changed midway and I didn't expect to lose haf my entry fee from the prize pool. I don't care about BIGs hard work, like so many others I'm in it to win the prizes.
Originally by: Gala Atomica
You can trust BIG, they have never cheated anyone so far and the devs said they would check carefully where goes the money so stop making noise, you are ridiculizing yourself and appear as a very greedy and little person in public.
actually you're the one ridiculing yourself by using namecalling. No, I can't trust BIG... they've just proven it.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.05.26 10:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gala Atomica It's crazy, you guys obviously never organized anything. Sometimes you need to change some things, understand it. Organize an event this week end then come back tell us about it.
You whine because you will get ONLY 1Bisk if you win instead of 4? Come on... If it is not about greed what is it about?
If BIG will institute Draw 28 with:
First prize 1 Bill ISK 2nd prize 500 mill ISK 3rd prize 250 mill ISK 4th prize: 20 * 100 mill ISK
then all of our complaints are withdrawn. In fact, I'd applaud them for making 23 people rich instead of one person insanely rich.
If they insist on holding 2 billion over for future draws, then they HAVE cheated. That is a mathematically proven fact, and has nothing to do with what they're going to use the money for. If you steal for a good cause, you're still a thief.
_______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
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Tenzo
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Posted - 2004.05.26 11:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gala Atomica BIG is the only corp I know who gave away free lab slots in the factory forum. So, start giving away yours then you can discuss who is greedy and who is not.
Originally by: Tenzo Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
I couldn't. It seems everyone here missed your question, Tenzo.
This was and wasn't a question - it was directed at all the forum trolls. All i am basically saying is cut the guy some slack. He works very very hard on this Lottery and people have slated him for it. I just want people to get it into perspective. Torn does this for nothing... does it for free... does it for fun .
Put yourself in his shoes...It cant be easy.
NoNamium - Dude WTF are you smoking. Stop trolling these topics. NOONE is scamming you out of 2 Billion ISK. The pot is being shared into the draws that follow on. Making more people rich. This has never been about making money.... it has been about sharing it.
I understand the principle of people saying it was a bad decision and I will admit that the decision should have been made before the event but nooone foresaw the massive interest and huge amounts of money that would be involved. It is therefore a sensible idea to share the pot to more people.
However i will not let people like yourself sit there and make some bull**** that BIG are scamming. We aren't and CCP can check this.
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Kapacs
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Posted - 2004.05.26 11:11:00 -
[22]
Ok....so far I tend to think against the lottery and most of the times I shut up just to avoid the gory responses to my own opinion.
Now the hilarious part which Tenzo is trying to show here is that this is done "for the love of the game". Let me tell you something, give me a person in the world, anyone you consider an idol or perhaps someone that impressed you in some way, not looking at his social status that he/she has done something for the community out of pure pleasure and meant to satisfy the god loving society.
A second aspect at which these accusations could be seen is that BIG tryed for a propaganda. Who knows what price the pot went to? All of us look and see what he writes in the forum, no actual screenshots of ingame amounts are ever given. So the "love of the game" is a true concept, for the one who benefits from it. You people can blame me as much as you want for saying these lines in public, however never judge me for what I hav said since you might not speak the truth concisely yourself
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.05.26 12:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kapacs Ok....so far I tend to think against the lottery and most of the times I shut up just to avoid the gory responses to my own opinion.
Now the hilarious part which Tenzo is trying to show here is that this is done "for the love of the game". Let me tell you something, give me a person in the world, anyone you consider an idol or perhaps someone that impressed you in some way, not looking at his social status that he/she has done something for the community out of pure pleasure and meant to satisfy the god loving society.
A second aspect at which these accusations could be seen is that BIG tryed for a propaganda. Who knows what price the pot went to? All of us look and see what he writes in the forum, no actual screenshots of ingame amounts are ever given. So the "love of the game" is a true concept, for the one who benefits from it. You people can blame me as much as you want for saying these lines in public, however never judge me for what I hav said since you might not speak the truth concisely yourself
If you think BIG have gone that far then is that not a job for CCP send in a petition but IMHO you sir are a paranoid fool
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
Dyring
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Posted - 2004.05.26 12:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tenzo
NoNamium - Dude WTF are you smoking. Stop trolling these topics. NOONE is scamming you out of 2 Billion ISK. The pot is being shared into the draws that follow on. Making more people rich. This has never been about making money.... it has been about sharing it.
I understand the principle of people saying it was a bad decision and I will admit that the decision should have been made before the event but nooone foresaw the massive interest and huge amounts of money that would be involved. It is therefore a sensible idea to share the pot to more people.
However i will not let people like yourself sit there and make some bull**** that BIG are scamming. We aren't and CCP can check this.
Yes you are. its this simple. What most players asked for was a split pot. Instead of every ticket having 1 chance at the full pot, (0,000026 % chance of winning 3.8 billions), every ticket should have for example: 3*1 billion = 0.000072 % chance at winning 1 bil, plus 1*500 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 500 millions, plus 1*300 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 300 millions. that could be divided up in alot of different ways, but thats the principel of it.
Instead, youv split it like this. 0.000026 chance at 1 billion 0.000026 chance at 500 mil 0.000026 chance at 250 mil.
Tornsoul asked what we possibly lost from this. according to my above example it is rather obvious what we lost. This can not possibly be hard to understand? I think you are simply playing stupid. The players who have bought tickets for this lottery have been cheated/scammed/fooled out of a proportionally big chance at winning.
And you say it is not a scam because you are doing it for the community. New analogy time. I sell a scorpion on trade, and the player buying it doesent check, so he gets a merlin instead. Now, that would be a scam yes? But according to your logic, If I then give the money away to other players without keeping any of it myself, then it is not a scam? huh?
//dyring
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 12:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tenzo
Originally by: Gala Atomica BIG is the only corp I know who gave away free lab slots in the factory forum. So, start giving away yours then you can discuss who is greedy and who is not.
Originally by: Tenzo Ask yourself this - Would you or could you do what Tornsoul does?
I doubt it.
I couldn't. It seems everyone here missed your question, Tenzo.
This was and wasn't a question - it was directed at all the forum trolls.
Who's to say who the trolls here are... those FOR or those AGAINST TornSouls Decision?
Originally by: Tenzo
All i am basically saying is cut the guy some slack. He works very very hard on this Lottery and people have slated him for it. I just want people to get it into perspective. Torn does this for nothing... does it for free... does it for fun .
this is the worlds smallest violin playing JUST for TornSoul
Originally by: Tenzo
Put yourself in his shoes...It cant be easy.
If I had been in his shoes, I would have kept my word to the BIG lottery participants
Originally by: Tenzo
NoNamium - Dude WTF are you smoking. Stop trolling these topics.
I will say and defend what I say any way I see fit
Originally by: Tenzo
NOONE is scamming you out of 2 Billion ISK.
Not me specifically, but the protesters of the changes more likely.
Originally by: Tenzo
The pot is being shared into the draws that follow on. Making more people rich. This has never been about making money.... it has been about sharing it.
Then "share" all of it in the next lottery like TornSoul wrote he would.
Originally by: Tenzo
I understand the principle of people saying it was a bad decision and I will admit that the decision should have been made before the event but nooone foresaw the massive interest and huge amounts of money that would be involved. It is therefore a sensible idea to share the pot to more people.
I'll tell you what happened... TornSoul had christmas lights in his eyes when he realized how much money and attention the BIG lottery got because of the apoc. He let that blind him and made a "Wouldn't it be great if:"-decision because of it. Now he's trying/tried desperately to defend his decision, when actually what he should be doing is consider the protesters (such as my myself).
Originally by: Tenzo
However i will not let people like yourself sit there and make some bull**** that BIG are scamming. We aren't and CCP can check this.
You'll read this and you will take it wether you like it or not. I very much like your idea of contacting CCP... is this being done? I know that they are poker players many of them. Lets just see what they think about this.
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Detaitiv
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:00:00 -
[26]
Quote: 3*1 billion = 0.000072 % chance at winning 1 bil, plus 1*500 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 500 millions, plus 1*300 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 300 millions. that could be divided up in alot of different ways, but thats the principel of it.
Instead, youv split it like this. 0.000026 chance at 1 billion 0.000026 chance at 500 mil 0.000026 chance at 250 mil.
Quote: I think you are simply playing stupid. The players who have bought tickets for this lottery have been cheated/scammed/fooled out of a proportionally big chance at winning.
You are an idiot.
Total prizes drawn for this lottery sale exceed value of tickets bought. In order to come to your conclusion we have to assume the Imperial Apoc has zero value.
If that ship's value is zero and it's obvioiusly more valuable than most or all other ships in the game, then all other ships must have a negative value.
Under the model you propose I would like people to please start paying me to accept their ships. I will be accepting all battleships in Yulai today and all you will have to pay me to take them is 10isk. I'm offering only 10 isk less than the value of an Imperial Apoc! What a deal.
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:08:00 -
[27]
Quote:
You whine because you will get ONLY 1Bisk if you win instead of 4? Come on... If it is not about greed what is it about?
It's about the odds it's like entering a poker game an in the middle some takes away a card from you and all the rest of the players around the table just because he feels it's right. I changes the odds and I like to know the odds before I enter and I thought I did but hey people can change them when ever they feel like it. yeah sure but I'm not letting them get away with it. if people wana play with the new odds thats up to them I don't.
Quote: NoNamium - Dude WTF are you smoking. Stop trolling these topics. NOONE is scamming you out of 2 Billion ISK. The pot is being shared into the draws that follow on. Making more people rich. This has never been about making money.... it has been about sharing it.
I wouldn't claim BIG where Scamming. But for them to decide who I share my money with is not something I will sit back and watch. I have no problem giving away money. But I don't like other people making the desition for me. It's not about greed it's about controll and the right to decide for your self.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Detaitiv
Quote: 3*1 billion = 0.000072 % chance at winning 1 bil, plus 1*500 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 500 millions, plus 1*300 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 300 millions. that could be divided up in alot of different ways, but thats the principel of it.
Instead, youv split it like this. 0.000026 chance at 1 billion 0.000026 chance at 500 mil 0.000026 chance at 250 mil.
Quote: I think you are simply playing stupid. The players who have bought tickets for this lottery have been cheated/scammed/fooled out of a proportionally big chance at winning.
You are an idiot.
Total prizes drawn for this lottery sale exceed value of tickets bought. In order to come to your conclusion we have to assume the Imperial Apoc has zero value.
If that ship's value is zero and it's obvioiusly more valuable than most or all other ships in the game, then all other ships must have a negative value.
Under the model you propose I would like people to please start paying me to accept their ships. I will be accepting all battleships in Yulai today and all you will have to pay me to take them is 10isk. I'm offering only 10 isk less than the value of an Imperial Apoc! What a deal.
Detaitiv, the Imperial Apocalypse what given out by CCP to BIG for specifically the lottery, under the condition that they do not profit from it.
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Dyring
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Detaitiv
Quote: 3*1 billion = 0.000072 % chance at winning 1 bil, plus 1*500 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 500 millions, plus 1*300 millions = 0.000026 % chance at 300 millions. that could be divided up in alot of different ways, but thats the principel of it.
Instead, youv split it like this. 0.000026 chance at 1 billion 0.000026 chance at 500 mil 0.000026 chance at 250 mil.
Quote: I think you are simply playing stupid. The players who have bought tickets for this lottery have been cheated/scammed/fooled out of a proportionally big chance at winning.
You are an idiot.
Total prizes drawn for this lottery sale exceed value of tickets bought. In order to come to your conclusion we have to assume the Imperial Apoc has zero value.
If that ship's value is zero and it's obvioiusly more valuable than most or all other ships in the game, then all other ships must have a negative value.
Under the model you propose I would like people to please start paying me to accept their ships. I will be accepting all battleships in Yulai today and all you will have to pay me to take them is 10isk. I'm offering only 10 isk less than the value of an Imperial Apoc! What a deal.
ehm? Ok. so we state that the imperial appocalypse is worth a great deal more than 2 billions. ok. Ill accept that as your wiew.
It will still not change the facts. My example is still correkt. Big offered a chance at the imperial appocalypse AND the pot. They change the rules in a way that gives the participants a lesser chance of winning the cash. Its that simple. Calling me an idiot does not change this.
We do not know when Big will change the rules next time, since they have proven that they do not consider the rules theyv set up beforehand to be final, but hold the right to change those rules at any time. Thus, they can no longer be trusted.
//dyring
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:31:00 -
[30]
Quote: You are an idiot.
Total prizes drawn for this lottery sale exceed value of tickets bought. In order to come to your conclusion we have to assume the Imperial Apoc has zero value.
Who are the idiot the are taking 2.1bil and giving out 1.750bil. meaning they are taking more then 50% and the value of the apoc would be crazy. And I for one don't freeking care about that apoc and if I have gotten it and BIG changed the deal YES I would give it back because for me it's nothing more then a big ships that I can't fly don't wana fly the value in the apoc is simply the isk I could get for it. Now BIG changes the deal and desides to move money to another drawing a drawing I cannot participate in and a drawing that will have diffrent odds then the one I'm currently in. And I don't wana pay for someone else to get a diffrent chance then me. that like playing a lottery and having to kinds of lottery tickets 1 with a fix change of less then you bought it for and the other one with a chance depending on how many lottery tickes get sold of that sort. I would take the tickes that changes price because I like thoose better but now BIG is forcing me too either take the ones with a fixed chance or take both and pay double.
It's not about money it's about BIG changing the odds. I know some people play lottery for fun I play by odds because I know I can't trust my luck.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:31:00 -
[31]
Hmm not acheiving a lot apart from a few uclers and high blood pressure here are we.
Lets see if the anti chage people are able to move on a little. Given that IMHO BIG are not going to make another change to the rules here.
If there isnt going to be a 4 billion Isk pot next time (however you divide it up ) then what do the people who have a gripe with the way BIG have handled this think is the way forward?
I really am interested in how you think this can be resolved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:35:00 -
[32]
The easy solution to this is simple thoose that don't wana participate shouldn't hafe to I guess big would still have a big pot to play with since many would be to lazy or don't care about claiming a refund.
But it's quite obvious we are a few that care and don't wana participate in this new system and since big changed the system they should also be ready to compensate thoose that wants no part of this new system.
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Shinca
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dubi *snip* claiming a refund.
A little to late for that since they already participated in Imperial Apoc lotto, right...
shinca
----------------------------- (\_/) (X.x) (> <) WTB cookbook with bunny recipes |
Detaitiv
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:21:00 -
[34]
Quote: and the value of the apoc would be crazy
Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
You are all complaining that you did not have odds representative of your purchase. The total value of prize payoouts will in fact far exceed purchases thanks to the gift of the Imperial Apoc that CCP had decided to bestow upon the community. The idea that you are not getting your money's worth is silly.
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Tenzo
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Posted - 2004.05.26 16:56:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Tenzo on 26/05/2004 16:59:47
Originally by: Detaitiv
Quote: and the value of the apoc would be crazy
Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
You are all complaining that you did not have odds representative of your purchase. The total value of prize payoouts will in fact far exceed purchases thanks to the gift of the Imperial Apoc that CCP had decided to bestow upon the community. The idea that you are not getting your money's worth is silly.
I forgot we had Imperial Arma hehehe - Aaaah didnt we do well in that Det. We ruled. ( well nearly ruled... came close to ruling )
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.05.26 17:21:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Shevar on 26/05/2004 17:22:02
Originally by: Shinca
Originally by: Dubi *snip* claiming a refund.
A little to late for that since they already participated in Imperial Apoc lotto, right...
shinca
But then again because of that they shouldnt be allowed to change any rules at all I participated in the lottery for the apoc and the full isk gotten through ticket sales in the next lottery, not the imperial apoc and not even half the isk that was gained through ticket sales. (no im not going into details here about how the whole isk pot should be devided, yes they should hand out more smaller prizes instead of 1 4 billion isk prizepot). -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.26 21:23:00 -
[37]
Quote: Gold Magnate market value: 1 billion Current Bid on Imperial Armageddon: 2.2 billion
You're right. That value on the Imperial Apoc is crazy. You just mistake in which way the value would be in error.
Who would pay 2.2billion for a ship that will be the prime target in any engagement and a ship that every pirat in the game wana destroy. if someone do and the apoc from the lottery got sold for that price surely I will admite my misstake. but the point is I didn't not enter the lottery for a ship that I don't want. When I entered BIGs site the first thing I saw was a 1billion+ pot and I was thinging hell yeah. It was easy to just throw in 2mil to BIG games because under that big pot it sad that if you did you would have 1 chance at the apoc and 1 chance at the pot. Now big changed the pot and the deal is not at all as good as before.
And the fact that one the first drawing has allready been held is even worse because now they wana force us to stay in with the words you allready started can't get refund now. If they had stated this before the apoc drawing I would had demanded a refund right then now they didn't for some reson don't know why since the pot was that high even before the the drawing of the apoc so why didn't TornSoul come out with the statement before that so we could avoid this discussion about allready being in one of the 2 promised drawing.
And for thoose few comming here stating BIG is doing the right thing. We have allready told you good for you if you wana support them it's up too you but they should not be able to force thoose that don't wana participate to do so.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.05.27 19:05:00 -
[38]
I typed this up several hours ago and was waiting for another EG writer to append a counter argument. However I see that people are beginning to see what I saw so I decided to release sooner than anticipated.
And I know EG gets read more then the forums so I don't think that the numbers of people jilted will stay small, restricted to just the forums.
However since CCP decided to make the Apoc lottery "News", for everyone to see, I am disappointed that the "revisions" haven't made the news either.
Or is it safe to assume there is disappointment there too?
To say that BIG is not profiting from this? Bah! Humbug! And Balderdash! In this one little motion they not only fund the next few lotteries but I've not heard of what will be done with the ticket sales from those lotteries.
Also realize that at any time BIG could potentially shutdown the lottery. Who gets the last pot? Why BIG does since the lottery is no longer a "deficit" spending proposition. It is fully funded by the money taken from those who choose to be in this latest round.
I'm truly saddened by this though. I don't think BIG meant any harm, or will mean any harm. However it's the height of arrogance, or foolishness, to think that our community (a justifiably suspicious one) would not react to this. And react strongly.
As dangerous as people's secrets and plans are they trust me with them. They don't however trust me with their cash. You were above me in that regard, BIG, but alas you made a "marketing" decision and their is a price.
I am glad to have your example though. It reinforces my belief that you never ever change your given word.
When you do, you are done.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.05.27 23:16:00 -
[39]
First prize 1 Bill ISK 2nd prize 500 mill ISK 3rd prize 250 mill ISK 4th prize: 20 * 100 mill ISK
This I would have less of a problem with because you would actually give the players better odds which is what you claim you want to do. Or do you really just want to hold over the billions of isk for the next few lotteries? I suppose we shall see.
Changing the rules after they have been established is still Very shady of you BIG, I hope you dont expect to be trusted ever again.
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stalefish
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Posted - 2004.05.28 00:39:00 -
[40]
yea.. my opinions are split. I have to give it up to tornsoul for putting this gigantic event together...
but yea, if people paid for this drawing, the people should have a chance to win all the isk put in the pot. If BIG is going to save some of the isk for future lotteries, the people that paid should still have a chance to win the isk in those lotteries as well. So if it's going to take 10 more lotteries to deliver the isk from this drawing, everyone that paid should be included in those drawings as well.
I personally really like the idea of have 23 winners though.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 05:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 05:51:51
Quote: Ok I have re-evaluated my post still think the odds is not in my favour with the new system. I wish you good luck with your new system but it's not for me and can I now have my money back. Since when I invested it you told me something diffrent. you have the right to change your mind but so have I.
FFS man!?! Is it that hard for you to make 1mil ISk in the world of Eve? Imo, Tornsoul does a great job!, and afaik no BIG members can even take part in the lottery. So that make it very fair. On top of that she dosent even take the 10% she reserves the right to.
Quote: the odds is not in my favour
Also, why would you think the odds are ever in your favor? Do you play the lotto in RL? Do you lose every time and ask for your money back then too?
I have played the lottery many times but have yet to win... I even played the max amount of tickets in the last round.. and will for the next. If I win Great!, if not Big ******* deal. I can say you wont see me whine and grovel, and ask for my money back.
I think that Torn does a great and honest job on the lotto
nuff said.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: NoNamium
For the first and the last time... this is not as much about the money as it is about that BIG cheated the players. The broke an agreement and kept 2B isk to do with as they wish. It just so happens that they want to use the money for promotion of their lottery and as a safety buffer for the prizes on the lottery. I couldn't care less about what they use the 2B for... they scammed about 4000 players out of 2B isk. The short and the long of it.
Go fly a kite and while your at it get a clue
What a well formulated, well argumented and informative statement.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:54:00 -
[43]
It was in responce to you comment of 'they scammed 4000 people out of 2bil isk'... thats why I said get a clue.. so they changed up how the pot gets divided up and won.. still shows its going back out and not in their wallets
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: McFly It was in responce to you comment of 'they scammed 4000 people out of 2bil isk'... thats why I said get a clue.. so they changed up how the pot gets divided up and won.. still shows its going back out and not in their wallets
Well, this is more like it.
I just so happen to believe that taking money for a purchase and only giving less than half of what was agreed upon is a scam.
If this had been just one person buying a 2 run Scorpion BPC and only got a 1 run for his money everybody would agree this was a scam. Even if the person selling the BPC said that the money he kept would be used for buying more Scorpion BPCs for the next players and that this player could be one of the next.
If BIG keeps 2B isk for further lotteries without giving full value of the tickets bought by the players, then that is the situation.
Changing the rules of agreement after the agreement has been upheld by one party is breach of contract and I don't like it.
There are several solutions to this, many of which will still keep the lottery alive and well. Many of them have been mentioned already, and I look forward to TornSouls reaction if any reaction will be made.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:20:00 -
[45]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 08:22:49 Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
*edit* btw I don't here you complaining about the Eula that changes from Eve.. and you have never seen rules change befor? Thats life man, deal with it.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 08:22:49 Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
*edit* btw I don't here you complaining about the Eula that changes from Eve.. and you have never seen rules change befor? Thats life man, deal with it.
I will gladly discuss the Eula changes in another thread if that is what you wish. However, that is not the topic of discussion here.
If the 1.75B is going for the next round then why do my tickets not count for that event as well. I'm paying for it and so are a lot of other people.
The total is appr. 3.8B isk 3.8 - 1.75B isk = 2.05B isk. Not 1.75B. and even if the remainder goes to a third round then I'm still not taking part of that lottery unless I pay for additional tickets.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 08:56:00 -
[47]
Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:10:00 -
[49]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:13:06
Originally by: NoNamium
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
I am over the subject, I'm really just sick of seeing lamers like yourself and others bash BIG for something they have been doing for a long time (and imo a good job at that). Only now people start b!tchin about it cause the rules changed.
If people don't like the rules, or if they don't like how the rules change, don't fekkin play! period.
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:13:06
Originally by: NoNamium
Originally by: McFly Time to get you a whaaburger and some frechcries
Who cares if the pot gets split in 2 other pots, the lottery you bought tickets for was for the Imperal Apoc was it not?
either way, I'm over this subject... to many people need to stop *****in
Nice to see you actually figured out what I meant. Don't assume on my behalf what I payed for or did not pay for. And I'll "***** and moan" about this as much as I want, and it sure doesn't sound to me as if you're "over this subject".
I am over the subject, I'm really just sick of seeing lamers like yourself and others bash BIG for something they have been doing for a long time (and imo a good job at that). Only now people start b!tchin about it cause the rules changed.
If people don't like the rules, or if they don't like how the rules change, don't fekkin play! period.
And I wont play in the lottery anymore. But you apparently just forgot all the previous post I sent to you, because you should know by now why it is that I'm protesting the changes. Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for. The agreement was broken. I feel that this more more than enough to be writing all this, if you don't then I'd gladly sell you 2 Thoraxs for lets say 13M isk, under the same terms as BIG would sell lottery tickets.
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:37:54
Originally by: NoNamium Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for.
Well sorry you fell cheated, I sure don't... I played just for the fun of it like most others do. All the people complaining about how the Isk gets split up and how they were cheated etc, etc, etc... just makes you all sound really greedy. Should be glad someone takes all their time and effort to even offer such a thing.
Originally by: NoNamium
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
*Just a hint* I don't really care how I appear. Imo I don't think foul language makes you appear younger, but complaining and *****ing does
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NoNamium
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: McFly Edited by: McFly on 28/05/2004 09:37:54
Originally by: NoNamium Because they are cheating me and many others like me out of something we already payed for.
Well sorry you fell cheated, I sure don't...
Good for you. But many others, like me have voiced their opinion and DO feel cheated.
Originally by: McFly
I played just for the fun of it like most others do. All the people complaining about how the Isk gets split up and how they were cheated etc, etc, etc... just makes you all sound really greedy. Should be glad someone takes all their time and effort to even offer such a thing.
Well, if its greedy to want to get what you payed for, then yes I'm greedy. And yes, it's nice that people take their time to do events, but not if those events are used to cheat you.
Originally by: McFly
Originally by: NoNamium
Just a hint: please refrain from using foul language as it may make you appear younger than you actually are.
*Just a hint* I don't really care how I appear.
ok, fine.
Originally by: McFly
Imo I don't think foul language makes you appear younger, but complaining and *****ing does
I'll let this remark stand by itself.
PS: funny you didn't quote me on the Thorax offer though.
PPS: I'll respond to posts that do not complain about people complaining and actually has more arguments of interests. Otherwise don't expect me to comment on your (unavoidably I'm afraid) next post.
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Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: NoNamium
PPS: I'll respond to posts that do not complain about people complaining and actually has more arguments of interests. Otherwise don't expect me to comment on your (unavoidably I'm afraid) next post.
Guess we won't be hearing from you again, then, everyone else left this topic yesterday...*cheers can be heard outside...* ---------------------
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Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:48:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:22:33
Quote: FFS man!?! Is it that hard for you to make 1mil ISk in the world of Eve?
No it's very easy to make 1mil in the world of eve and the money is not the issue.
Quote:
Also, why would you think the odds are ever in your favor? Do you play the lotto in RL? Do you lose every time and ask for your money back then too?
I have played the lottery many times but have yet to win... I even played the max amount of tickets in the last round.. and will for the next. If I win Great!, if not Big ******* deal. I can say you wont see me whine and grovel, and ask for my money back.
I think that Torn does a great and honest job on the lotto
Do we hafe to go over this again if this happend in rl BIG big would be facing the people that feel cheated in court. and would be guilty of breaking a written agreement. And I have also played with BIG before and I was going to continue doing so. I have never won and it's not a big deal. the big deal is that they take money from our lottery to sponsor the ones that wana be in the next lottery.
Quote: Did you not read that the other 1.75bil will go to the next round So you still havent shown me where they're keeping the isk.
Did you also read the part where it says that you hafe to buy new tickets for that round. BIG was given a Apoc by CCP and they made a lottery for the Apoc and stated that all the money from that lottery would be in the next lottery so pay 2mil and you can be in both lotteries. Now BIG sees the opurtunity to take over the lottery market by ensuring that they have the biggest prices by taking money from a CCP event to have as a carrot so that more people in the future will continue playing with them.
And I didn't agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
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Matt Ivresse
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dubi
And I didn't not agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
So you do agree with it then...? ---------------------------
DUI Racing - The PREMIER Racing corporation for Racing fans out there in the world of |
Dubi
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:24:45 Edited by: Dubi on 28/05/2004 11:24:04
Quote:
Quote: Originally by: Dubi And I didn't not agree on being apart of paying for a carrot that I'm not interested in.
So you do agree with it then...?
Typo Changed.
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Angeles Solaris
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Posted - 2004.05.29 01:57:00 -
[57]
All I can say is that I will not be participating in BIG's next lottery.
I don't know if anyone at BIG realizes this, but lotteries are not about sharing. If I wanted to share I'd just send my money to other people myself. Life is a joke; If you're too serious you won't get it :P |
NAFnist
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Posted - 2004.05.29 02:38:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kapacs
Now the hilarious part which Tenzo is trying to show here is that this is done "for the love of the game". Let me tell you something, give me a person in the world, anyone you consider an idol or perhaps someone that impressed you in some way, not looking at his social status that he/she has done something for the community out of pure pleasure and meant to satisfy the god loving society.
OMG!! Worst post I've ever seen on these boards _____________
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.05.29 02:42:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Darkwolf on 29/05/2004 02:47:45 Well, I have to say I'm not particularly amused.
When I bought my tickets for the lottery, it was made clear that the first prize would be the Apoc, and the second prize would be the cash pool.
This got changed on me. Now, to be frank, I could care less about the Apoc, I wanted the chance at the cash. This obviously could not happen because of the changes that happened.
And now I find out that in order to have a shot at the cash I have to invest MORE money?
No thanks.
Edit: Subdivision of the large cash pool into many smaller prizes would have been acceptable, but jackpotting the cash pool into another lottery that players in the FIRST lottery have to buy tickets for AGAIN just isn't kosher, sorry. Buyers in the first lottery should have been offered refunds at the time of the change if they no longer wished to participate.
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.29 03:45:00 -
[60]
To clear this up. Nonamium understands, but apparently some other don't.
The issue is not that BIG will use this round's ticket sales for future lotteries, all lotteries do that, that's how they keep going. The issue is that BIG initially said they wouldn't, then changed their minds.
Many people don't have problems with this, since technically your odds of winning are the same, you just get less if you win. Many people don't care, and that's cool.
But then again, there are plenty who do care. It's their deal, and they have a perfectly valid point. Unfortunately, there's nothing they can do. I feel bad for those people, but I am powerless to change things. You'll just have to not do the lottery from now on. I wish you would, but if you're angry, you probably wont enter the lottery
Play The BIG Lottery! |
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Lesch
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Posted - 2004.05.29 16:45:00 -
[61]
I'll start by saying that I appreciate what Tornsoul and the BIG crew have done for the community with this lottery. It adds some fun to the game that I think many of us enjoy. I do not doubt their sincerity or goodwill in the least.
I do believe however that the decision to change the rules of the lottery AFTER many people had purchased tickets is wrong. This has nothing to do with the idea that 1 billion is not enough isk to win, or that the prizes offered aren't worth the amount I wagered. It's the fact that the terms of the payment I made have been unilaterally replaced without any ability or option on my part to choose. In game or in life, this is not the basis of a trusting relationship.
Fortunately, there is a painless solution to this. If the Apocalypse was in fact provided to BIG at no cost for this lottery, they are not out any money themselves. As the first cash draw has not yet occurred, they have the opportunity to refund entry fees to any players who do not wish to participate under the new lottery structure. Those players would then not have been harmed financially either. Those that choose to continue to participate will have agreed to the new rules and the new payouts, and everyone can be happy.
I realize that this would generate even more work for Tornsoul and the BIG members involved, but unfortunately I think that it may be the only way to retain the image of integrity they have worked so hard to build. As much as I may even agree that the new payout format is actually a better plan for the players of EVE, it would be very difficult for me to allow myself to deal with them in the future (lottery or otherwise) if they proceed with things as they stand now. I quite simply need to be able to trust that the arrangements I enter into will be honored by the people/groups I deal with.
Sincerely, Lesch CEO - Meyvn Corporation
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TheFatman
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Posted - 2004.05.29 17:32:00 -
[62]
Just going to add my 2 cents. I posted in the Eve General about this, but read a post by a BIG member that the real discussion was going on here.
After reading the posts by BIG members, it seems they don't deny changing the rules after they started collecting isk, and it does not seem they will be rectifying the situation on their own.
Now my question is no longer with BIG, but with CCP. What are you, CCP, going to do about this Lotto theft through deception? You, CCP, gave your words that this would be on the up and up, and you would be there to insure it. Now the lotto turned into an open and shut case of theft, what will be your response?
This is one of the reasons I believe there were so many posts, questioning the wisdom of CCP getting involved in any way with this. If BIG had stolen the isk without CCP being involved, these arguements would all be moot. It would be just like corp theft "srry be more careful next time, people can steal", but this is more like CCP telling a corp here accept this character into your ranks, we, CCP, guarantee his trustworthness and will hold him accountable, then the char robs your corp blind and ganks its members, all of a sudden it's a different situation because the devs became involved and gave their word.
Once again, I have seen no arguements by BIG claiming this was nothing but theft through deception, it does not matter who gets the isk in the end, all that matters is that BIG told people they were buying one thing, CCP guaranteed there would be no scamming, then BIG changes the rules after collecting the isk, a simple con job.
Now the only shoe left to drop is, what will CCP do about this?
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.29 19:26:00 -
[63]
Originally by: TheFatman Just going to add my 2 cents. I posted in the Eve General about this, but read a post by a BIG member that the real discussion was going on here.
After reading the posts by BIG members, it seems they don't deny changing the rules after they started collecting isk, and it does not seem they will be rectifying the situation on their own.
Now my question is no longer with BIG, but with CCP. What are you, CCP, going to do about this Lotto theft through deception? You, CCP, gave your words that this would be on the up and up, and you would be there to insure it. Now the lotto turned into an open and shut case of theft, what will be your response?
This is one of the reasons I believe there were so many posts, questioning the wisdom of CCP getting involved in any way with this. If BIG had stolen the isk without CCP being involved, these arguements would all be moot. It would be just like corp theft "srry be more careful next time, people can steal", but this is more like CCP telling a corp here accept this character into your ranks, we, CCP, guarantee his trustworthness and will hold him accountable, then the char robs your corp blind and ganks its members, all of a sudden it's a different situation because the devs became involved and gave their word.
Once again, I have seen no arguements by BIG claiming this was nothing but theft through deception, it does not matter who gets the isk in the end, all that matters is that BIG told people they were buying one thing, CCP guaranteed there would be no scamming, then BIG changes the rules after collecting the isk, a simple con job.
Now the only shoe left to drop is, what will CCP do about this?
You misunderstand. CCP guaranteed that the Apoc would be delivered, and BIG wouldn't profit from the lottery. What they guarantee has happened, and that's on the up and up. BIG, though, initially announced that 100% of all ticket sales would be given in round 28, but then changed their minds.
Play The BIG Lottery! |
TheFatman
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Posted - 2004.05.29 19:51:00 -
[64]
Gavin it looks like you are half way right, here's a quote and a link to the post by Oveur:
"Now, this was a player run event and we take no stand on what the ticket cash is used for as long as BIG is not profiting from it and that they followed our rules for Imperial Apoc draw. I'm auditing that myself and there are no scams or deals going on, cause if they do, I'll be the first to ban the whole lot of them."
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=82638&page=15#281
Technically "scams and deals" did happen, ticket sales would of been nowhere near what they were without the incentive of the Imperial Apoc, will this lead to a ban of all BIG members?
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Basst
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Posted - 2004.05.29 20:43:00 -
[65]
I have just read this entire thread. Not a small undertaking considering the length of some of the posts. In my opion both sides of the argment have made some intresting points. But if for no other reason then that I took the time to read all of them, I want my say.
I suport Big in what it is doing. I don't really plan to get into a long debate about this. I just want to let the people at Big know that not every one is unhappy.
"My goal here is to have fun, what's yours?" |
Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.29 21:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: TheFatman Gavin it looks like you are half way right, here's a quote and a link to the post by Oveur:
"Now, this was a player run event and we take no stand on what the ticket cash is used for as long as BIG is not profiting from it and that they followed our rules for Imperial Apoc draw. I'm auditing that myself and there are no scams or deals going on, cause if they do, I'll be the first to ban the whole lot of them."
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=82638&page=15#281
Technically "scams and deals" did happen, ticket sales would of been nowhere near what they were without the incentive of the Imperial Apoc, will this lead to a ban of all BIG members?
I think he was referring to scams and deals as far as profiting and rigging who won the auction.
And for the record, only a few BIG members have anything at all to do with the lottery.
Play The BIG Lottery! |
TheFatman
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Posted - 2004.05.29 22:53:00 -
[67]
Well hopefully Oveur will clarify, then Gavin. Accepting your interpretation of what Oveur meant, it sounds like he has quite a job on his hand, accounting wise.
He is going to have to track all that isk to make sure it does not end up in the BIG coffers, over the next few lottos. I still don't understand how they can do that since all it would take is for a friend of BIG to "win" and then transfer half the isk back to his cohort. The Imperial Apoc is far easier to track I imagine.
I think CCP should let the playerbase know that they are investigating BIG, for scamming in a lotto sponsored by CCP, and reassure the playerbase that actions will be taken to set a precedent, that way future player run events sponsored by CCP won't be used for scamming.
In the end it looks like CCP should of thought this through a bit more, and setup a dev alt for the isk deposits, that way if the Player running the CCP sponsored event decides to change rules after the event has started CCP can stop it right away.
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Gavin Kineli
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Posted - 2004.05.30 03:20:00 -
[68]
Originally by: TheFatman He is going to have to track all that isk to make sure it does not end up in the BIG coffers, over the next few lottos. I still don't understand how they can do that since all it would take is for a friend of BIG to "win" and then transfer half the isk back to his cohort. The Imperial Apoc is far easier to track I imagine.
I know BIG won't do that. It's one thing to tell someone one thing then change your mind, it's another to intentionally and outright lie to them. Both are "dishonest," but they're totally different circumstances.
Play The BIG Lottery! |
Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.05.30 13:13:00 -
[69]
I pretty much agree with EG article 100%. I dont really care for the mil that i paid, the chance of winning anything is slim at best. But BIG has just suffered a HUGE blow in their reputation, which I'm quite happy about...
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khainestar
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Posted - 2004.06.10 14:02:00 -
[70]
Edited by: khainestar on 10/06/2004 14:04:56 edit: pwned by spellings
I have no connection to BIG other than to enter the lottery and frankly I am amazed that they are still running it. The amount of abuse they got for people 'loosing' 5mill would have made me say "screw it the next is the last". Hell I spend more than 5mill on cruise and torps in a week.
To the majority of people entering the BIG lottery 5mill is small change. So they changed the rules big deal. You didn't lose any more ISK. Personally I think the only person that could complain is the first prize winner. They expected, what was it 3.5bil, and got 1bil but that would be plain greedy.
You didn't win so what you 'could' have won doesn't matter.
My advice is that if you belive BIG ripped you off and cheated, don't enter any more. You can't complain then.
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Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for. |
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Sekhen
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Posted - 2004.06.10 18:40:00 -
[71]
Originally by: khainestar Personally I think the only person that could complain is the first prize winner. They expected, what was it 3.5bil, and got 1bil but that would be plain greedy.
Well. To be honest. 1 or ~4 billion doesent matter. Its really lots of ISK. I hope the others that win is as happy as myself. And to whine about not getting ~4billion is just childish. I'm happy with my billion, and would like to (yet again) thank BIG for their effort! Keep up the good job!!
------------------------------------------------ If there is doubt, there is no doubt.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world dominatio |
Slam
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Posted - 2004.06.10 23:23:00 -
[72]
Since this topic already got bumped I might as well add that BIG decided to offer refunds to ALL players that felt they had been cheated - it was in a newsletter.
As expected very few people decided to utilize this option.
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.06.11 11:00:00 -
[73]
slam - thats because people like to whine. The moment you say "oh fine, here, have your money back" They go "Well actually, we'd still like to win the 1bill to be honest with you. but i'm still going to whine some more on the forums."
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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