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Kane Kuchera
Amarr
Achmed Fleet
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:29:00 -
[1]
I would first like to say this is only a dicussion. A probe into the oppinions of others and a general expression of personel thoughts.
I have no interest in seing people 'shouting' or having a full blown rant about losses you have sufferd that you belive unfair. But I am sure we would be happy to hear further examples and stories.
Essensialy, keep it mature. It is afterall supposed to be an adult game.
The reason I bring this up; is as you would expect was due to a personel loss of asset.
I will explain the circumstances to you.
I am a member of the Caldari Milita. I find it an interesting diversion from 0.0 pvp and an intreuging change. Now, normally I would not have a problem with a loss in combat as I am sure most people would not. I resent lag based losses somewhat, but unfortunatly lag is a commen problem and as "cold" as a a GM response can be when it comes to being unable to verify loss. I can regardless uderstand it to some degree.
However, this was a differnt scenario.
In faction warfare. The High Security systems are defended somewhat by N.P.C's They are ment more of a diterent than a full blown defence force but as a whole, they generally keep the enemy fleets out.
However, naming no names and pointing no direct fingers, the Gallente stumbled upon an exploit which allowed them to roam freely in hostile high security space with no resistence from N.P.C's
Basicly, this entailed one milita member tankin the NPC's and having the support of remote-repairing from neutrals to keep them alive.
Unfortunatly for us Caldari, said neutrals where not 'flagged' So we where unable to shoot at them for their actions without being taken down by CONCORD.
Thankfully, CCP had payed note of the significant complaints and declared it illegal. Using said exploit would result in severe reprocussions. That is good news as the exploit greatly spoiled what FW represented for many people.
It is due to this exploit that I lost a C.N.R (Caldari Navy Raven) with aproximatly 178 million ISK's worth of cargo alone (excluding the fittings and ship naturally)This occured in Jita.
The response of the NPC's in Jita would be of significance due to the systems security level yet they where sat on the gate for some time with no NPC reprocussions.
I of course pertitioned this and recieved the usuall "unable to verify loss" response. Now my argument was this. "How much verification can you possibly need?. The ship was destroyed in Jita!"
It was then argued in return by the GM handeling the case that the NPC's are not designed as a full stop deterent. Merly enough to assist the players in defence.
I could accept that, however. the ships that ambushed me where HAC's ships that can not tank the NPC's due to inadequate shield/armor stregnths (I will add the NPC's warp right on top of you and DO web removing the advantage of speed somewhat). But evan if they could tank the NPC's, None evan came to try and stop them. In fact they sat on the same gate for some time before moving on.
This thus means the NPC's where distracted (arka to; "The Exploit")
I have done pvp for some time, severall wars including in Empire. I understand that usually no place is safe. But faction warfare was designed to bring newbies into PvP and allow them to retain some degree of safty for their non PvP ventures. As the usual empire wars would mean you are safe nowhere. FW gives you the ability to still remain safe in your own high sec systems or atleast to a major extent.
My complaint is that my CNR was lost in Jita and with the evidence available, it can only of occured due to this afor mentioned exploit. If it had been a roaming hit and run gang then I would have had no problem with this atall but instead they sat on this gate for a long time uncontested.
So, after this long winded story. I ask you with the details I have provided, do you think it is reasonable that they are resusing reimbursement?
Thankyou for reading this looooong post also lol.
- Kane
ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
Kane Kuchera
Amarr
Achmed Fleet
|
Posted - 2008.07.25 00:29:00 -
[2]
I would first like to say this is only a dicussion. A probe into the oppinions of others and a general expression of personel thoughts.
I have no interest in seing people 'shouting' or having a full blown rant about losses you have sufferd that you belive unfair. But I am sure we would be happy to hear further examples and stories.
Essensialy, keep it mature. It is afterall supposed to be an adult game.
The reason I bring this up; is as you would expect was due to a personel loss of asset.
I will explain the circumstances to you.
I am a member of the Caldari Milita. I find it an interesting diversion from 0.0 pvp and an intreuging change. Now, normally I would not have a problem with a loss in combat as I am sure most people would not. I resent lag based losses somewhat, but unfortunatly lag is a commen problem and as "cold" as a a GM response can be when it comes to being unable to verify loss. I can regardless uderstand it to some degree.
However, this was a differnt scenario.
In faction warfare. The High Security systems are defended somewhat by N.P.C's They are ment more of a diterent than a full blown defence force but as a whole, they generally keep the enemy fleets out.
However, naming no names and pointing no direct fingers, the Gallente stumbled upon an exploit which allowed them to roam freely in hostile high security space with no resistence from N.P.C's
Basicly, this entailed one milita member tankin the NPC's and having the support of remote-repairing from neutrals to keep them alive.
Unfortunatly for us Caldari, said neutrals where not 'flagged' So we where unable to shoot at them for their actions without being taken down by CONCORD.
Thankfully, CCP had payed note of the significant complaints and declared it illegal. Using said exploit would result in severe reprocussions. That is good news as the exploit greatly spoiled what FW represented for many people.
It is due to this exploit that I lost a C.N.R (Caldari Navy Raven) with aproximatly 178 million ISK's worth of cargo alone (excluding the fittings and ship naturally)This occured in Jita.
The response of the NPC's in Jita would be of significance due to the systems security level yet they where sat on the gate for some time with no NPC reprocussions.
I of course pertitioned this and recieved the usuall "unable to verify loss" response. Now my argument was this. "How much verification can you possibly need?. The ship was destroyed in Jita!"
It was then argued in return by the GM handeling the case that the NPC's are not designed as a full stop deterent. Merly enough to assist the players in defence.
I could accept that, however. the ships that ambushed me where HAC's ships that can not tank the NPC's due to inadequate shield/armor stregnths (I will add the NPC's warp right on top of you and DO web removing the advantage of speed somewhat). But evan if they could tank the NPC's, None evan came to try and stop them. In fact they sat on the same gate for some time before moving on.
This thus means the NPC's where distracted (arka to; "The Exploit")
I have done pvp for some time, severall wars including in Empire. I understand that usually no place is safe. But faction warfare was designed to bring newbies into PvP and allow them to retain some degree of safty for their non PvP ventures. As the usual empire wars would mean you are safe nowhere. FW gives you the ability to still remain safe in your own high sec systems or atleast to a major extent.
My complaint is that my CNR was lost in Jita and with the evidence available, it can only of occured due to this afor mentioned exploit. If it had been a roaming hit and run gang then I would have had no problem with this atall but instead they sat on this gate for a long time uncontested.
So, after this long winded story. I ask you with the details I have provided, do you think it is reasonable that they are resusing reimbursement?
Thankyou for reading this looooong post also lol.
- Kane
ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
MinmatarCitizen 90242
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:34:00 -
[3]
tl;dr
stop posting.
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MinmatarCitizen 90242
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:34:00 -
[4]
tl;dr
stop posting.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:35:00 -
[5]
Your application for reimbursement has been declined.
http://obeythekitten.com/ |
Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:35:00 -
[6]
Your application for reimbursement has been declined.
http://obeythekitten.com/ |
Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
T e r c i o s
|
Posted - 2008.07.25 00:36:00 -
[7]
Many ships are destroyed in Jita and systems next it... Nowhere in EVE is safe. If you think they used an exploit report them for the exploit not for your loss. If the use of the exploit is confirmed then it is most likely that you will get your ship back. Anyway a 400 mil loss is not a big deal in EVE.. it happens regularly in 0.0 PvP
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Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
T e r c i o s
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:36:00 -
[8]
Many ships are destroyed in Jita and systems next it... Nowhere in EVE is safe. If you think they used an exploit report them for the exploit not for your loss. If the use of the exploit is confirmed then it is most likely that you will get your ship back. Anyway a 400 mil loss is not a big deal in EVE.. it happens regularly in 0.0 PvP
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:39:00 -
[9]
Unless the tactic has been officially declared an exploit, you aren't in for a reimbursement.
However, I get the distinct impression that the whole neutral tanking tactic will be fixed in the near future.
----------------
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:58:00 -
[10]
Why is this a CAOD thread? General Discussion is further up the list.
 Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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the Poet
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 00:58:00 -
[11]
didnt read it but NO!
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar
Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kane Kuchera
Essensialy
If you want to demand maturity, type like a human instead.
----
" Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Al Ugilac
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kane Kuchera
stuff
This is why FW needs its own forum.
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Astasia Orian
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:28:00 -
[14]
pretty long post
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cyberdog
RSP Enterprises
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MinmatarCitizen 90242
tl;dr
stop posting.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.25 01:30:00 -
[16]
I believe your best course of action would be to run to the forum and cry about your loss.
Seriously, no one is going to read that wall of text (I skimmed it), and it's not that big a deal. However, if you are saying that they did this AFTER the tactic was declared an exploit, then escalate your petition (probably won't get reimbursed, but you can get them banned).
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Agaue
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:08:00 -
[17]
for TLDR people;
I lost my navy raven in jita .... wa wa wa ... I want it back.
Suck it up princess, so some factional warfare people got into Jita .... who gives a rats, at some point you still decided to engage them, or you just got ganked by them, either way you lost your ship not from their exploit but because they shot you and killed you.
Live with it, no where in eve is safe.
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Dez Affinity
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:22:00 -
[18]
Actually you can get aggression on the remote reppers, simply attack the person they are repping, come next cycle you get a 15 min aggression to them.
_______________
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Tisanta
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.25 05:59:00 -
[19]
If you dotn get reimbursed can i have your stuff?
But on a serious note, i doubt u will be reimbursed. The logs seem to never show any problems with the game 
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Kaito Kurusaki
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.25 06:29:00 -
[20]
I belive that it wasn't classed as an exploit until AFTER the Jita incident. So you lost your ship to intended game mechanics. Sucks eh?
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Clytamnestra
Spartan Fleet Systems
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 06:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Clytamnestra on 25/07/2008 06:42:51
Personally, I think CCP should've gone hard love from day one, and reimbursed nothing.
Then we'd see a lot less whining on the forums.
Edit: Oh and also, you didn't lose your ships to someone tanking the NPCs, you lost it to someone shooting at you. Which isn't an exploit.
Reimbursements could not and should not really take into consideration whether you'd survive or not had the NPCs been there to back you up.
--
Clytamnestra |
Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:59:00 -
[22]
a HAC can easy tank the first wave of NPC navy.
you got killed because you didnt shoot back and where carebear about and started whining instead of fighting
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.25 09:28:00 -
[23]
Rofls @ all the CAOD trolls, such boring trolls, aren't they?
Anyways, yes you should get your ship back if your opponent used a known exploit to kill you.
BUT:
-if they killed you before the exploit notification then you should not get your ship back
-if CCP cannot determine whether your opponent used an exploit to kill you (which I don't think they can in this case) then you should not get your ship back.
Flying a CNR that you don't want to lose while in ANY kind of war is a ridiculous action. Oh well suck it up.
--
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Belch Verbyl
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kane Kuchera
...faction warfare was designed to bring newbies into PvP...
My complaint is that my CNR was lost in Jita
Newbies don't fly CNR's.
Newbies don't fly CNR's in war.
Most Veterans don't fly CNR's in war.
Few veterans fly CNR's in war,
untill it get's blown apart and then turn back to the raven.
CNR's are the lesser children in wars.
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Tenacha Khan
E-Thugz
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:09:00 -
[25]
CCP are unable to verify wether the people that killed you were involved in the exploit or not. The people who killed you were flying around, the person who was exploiting was tanking the rats. Either way its possible to do it without the ****** tanking with alts, being -10 and going to hi sec for empire wars is exactly the same and people have been doing that for a long time, guess its only when the many cry it comes to peoples attention.
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Crae Matreki
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Anyways, yes you should get your ship back if your opponent used a known exploit to kill you.
Neutrals remote repping isn't an exploit at the moment, and I've seen pilots from all the factions using that 'tactic'. 
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Banana Torres
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:14:00 -
[27]
Your post was very long and not that well written, any chance you could do a PowerPoint presentation instead?
Just another whining Caldary that want the NPCs to fight his battles.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:42:00 -
[28]
No. No you should definately not get that one back. If anything you should probably be hunted down and pelted with wet pasta for even petitioning it in the first place.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Infinity111
Amarr
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:48:00 -
[29]
well i must say eve has truly come down crashing from quality it was in past. now it seems no matter what you write are met with flaming and people just being ****ing *******s. please dear underaged WOW players gtfo from EVE and go back *****ing in those forums. if people does not have anything constructive to say but start stupid flaming if someone asks something. that makes me ****ed off. grow up people.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 10:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Anyways, yes you should get your ship back if your opponent used a known exploit to kill you.
BUT:
-if they killed you before the exploit notification then you should not get your ship back
-if CCP cannot determine whether your opponent used an exploit to kill you (which I don't think they can in this case) then you should not get your ship back.
QFT
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DesuSigs |
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