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Corps side steping FW in attemps to effect it's outcome.

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Freighter Meh	Posted - 2008.07.25 04:14:00 - [1] I am new to faction war (less then 5 hours).. but when empire corps can war dec faction war participants for the sole reason of effecting the faction war outcome then that sounds a lot like a exploit to me. These corps War Dec pivotal corps that have FW FC's or have members heavily active in the alliance. If you were a Gallente FW member and be able to enter Caldari space as a without being engaged by Caldari police. There isn't a GM in CCP office that wouldn't consider that as a exploit. I think they should impose either higher war dec costs, as much as if the corp was an alliance and had two current running war decs to prevent multiple cheap Decs, or block war decs from being placed on corps that participate.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.25 04:34:00 - [2] Edited by: Zurrar on 25/07/2008 04:34:03 Originally by: Malcanis CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lothris Andastar	Posted - 2008.07.25 04:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Zurrar Edited by: Zurrar on 25/07/2008 04:34:03
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.07.25 05:39:00 - [4] Being able to unilaterally war dec high sec corps is ******ed already. This is just one more example. The problems from allowing these war declarations to exist(namely 25 k people staying in the defaults corps) is far worse than any supply issues it allows. Wherever you went - here you are.
knifee Caldari Euphoria Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.07.25 06:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Ghoest Being able to unilaterally war dec high sec corps is ******ed already. This is just one more example. Nope. You are wrong. Also the OP is wrong. Reading your posts i think you probably already know the reasons you are both wrong, but explaining it will just leave you having to post about how war decs are griefing and not in fact one of the things that makes EvE the game it is. So i'll not do that and spare you both the horrible flaming you would get. eve-dev - making a good thing better
Ag1tator	Posted - 2008.07.25 10:43:00 - [6] Why don't you just get the other corps wardec them right back and be done with it? There has been a lot of discussion of if the actual FW militia should be the target of these wardecs instead of the individual corporations. If the militia were the target the people hunting the individual corps now would harvest you all over like sheep. If people would stop whining in FW chat and local etc and had their corps wardec the alliances back, there would be no problems. But whining is ofc so much easier.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.07.25 10:49:00 - [7] So what you're saying, essentially, is that you signed up for a huge wardec vs. a whole bunch of other people so it's okay, but if somebody ELSE wants to shoot at you as well then it's some kind of exploit? The solution is simple, and it's the same as before FW ever existed. If you don't want to become the target of a wardec, stay out of player corporations. You can participate in FW without being in a player corp. Welcome to EVE. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 - [8] People using a feature designed solely to give you lots and lots of people to shoot and be shot by are complaining that there is too much to shoot? Just get some befriended corps to dec de war deccing corps and give them a taste of their own medicine! Of if you prefer a more solo friendly solution, leave your corp and join the militia corp directly as was suggested already. Either way problem solved.
Babel Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:19:00 - [9] Originally by: knifee Originally by: Ghoest Being able to unilaterally war dec high sec corps is ******ed already. This is just one more example. Nope. You are wrong. Also the OP is wrong. Reading your posts i think you probably already know the reasons you are both wrong, but explaining it will just leave you having to post about how war decs are griefing and not in fact one of the things that makes EvE the game it is. So i'll not do that and spare you both the horrible flaming you would get. Wow, you must have a really supple spine to get your head that far up your own ... ------- "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:22:00 - [10] Faction Warfare? Huh? I saw a newspost once... but I ignored it like all the others. -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven. Parallel Python
AltBier Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2008.07.25 12:13:00 - [11] Edited by: AltBier on 25/07/2008 12:15:54 Originally by: Freighter Meh I think they should impose either higher war dec costs, as much as if the corp was an alliance and had two current running war decs to prevent multiple cheap Decs, or block war decs from being placed on corps that participate. I doubt the higher war-dec costs would do anything except be an extra ISK sink. As I see it there are three options: 1) Leave things how they are. Yes, it is odd that you can dec individual corps in a militia, and indeed they can dec each other within the militia (much like loyalist groups in northern ireland did), but that is less problematic than ... 2) Allow corps/alliances to war dec the whole militia. That would basically mean that a large alliance could wipe out the whole militia. Not what CCP had in mind for people who want to get into PvP at the shallow end of the water, so to speak. 3) Allow no war deccing of corps in the militia. That would be unacceptable, because the corps inside FW would enjoy the same benefits as players who are in an NPC corp (cannot be war decced) and yet have all the benefits of being in a player corp (corp hangars etc). BTW, the option of allowing individual corps of an alliance to also join a militia would defacto be the same as option 2).
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2008.07.25 13:13:00 - [12] Edited by: Molock Saronen on 25/07/2008 13:14:12 Uhm.. I think he's talking about something else. How I read this is as follows: If I want to influence FW, I and my corp could wardec FW corps that have good FC's. Because I'm not 'openly' in FW it means I, unlike true FW members, can enter the opponents space without getting attacked by NPC's or other opposing FW members. But I can still attack those FC's. So, for an example he could(in a NON-FW Gallente corp) dec a Caldari FW corp that has a good FC. Next he could fly to Caldari space and without an interferance from other Caldari FW corps, or Caldari NPC's, attack the FC and his corp. Thus hampering the Caldari FW war effort.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Eve-Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 13:17:00 - [13] There are so many pilots in FW at the moment it would take more than a couple of corps to stop any of the races failing. ________________________ Lord WarATron: "To do the Abaddon Hadoken, you need to do the following manover with the joypad. ↓ .... ↓→ .... → + ●
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.25 13:23:00 - [14] ITT we want to nerf assassination. - DesuSigs
The Racketeer	Posted - 2008.08.15 04:44:00 - [15] Edited by: The Racketeer on 15/08/2008 04:54:03 Edited by: The Racketeer on 15/08/2008 04:47:19 Originally by: Molock Saronen Uhm.. I think he's talking about something else. How I read this is as follows: If I want to influence FW, I and my corp could wardec FW corps that have good FC's. Because I'm not 'openly' in FW it means I, unlike true FW members, can enter the opponents space without getting attacked by NPC's or other opposing FW members. But I can still attack those FC's. So, for an example he could(in a NON-FW Gallente corp) dec a Caldari FW corp that has a good FC. Next he could fly to Caldari space and without an interferance from other Caldari FW corps, or Caldari NPC's, attack the FC and his corp. Thus hampering the Caldari FW war effort. exactly my point. Star Faction as much as openly admitted doing this.. http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2295&tid=7 i got no beef with FW alliance/corp vrs FW alliance/corp. I think to war dec a FW corp you really should be a FW member of an opposing faction. that would allow you to pvp in low sec or empire space not belonging by either faction. Or.. if not in the FW you should at least become instantly wanted by the faction your war target is in, needing to dodge faction police to enter that factions controlled space.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.08.15 04:49:00 - [16] The whole thing sounds like a great idea to me. If a corp wants to 'assassinate' another corp that happens to be fighting in FW, outstanding. If you really want to solve the problem, make all FW factions able to be war deced and you're set. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.15 04:51:00 - [17] I've often considered what a 'neutral' group doing operations against enemy FW targets could accomplish. Specifically if you are willing to take a sec hit, use medium sized ships for fast destruction, call your targets and be picky, then retreat to hisec where your enemies can't attack without being CONCORDED. This would be the next best thing to 'government sponsored pirating', which of course has existed throughout history. I think 'privateers' is what that means. Might be wrong. Anyhow, having a third party wardec a FW corp to hinder the FC does seem underhanded. It also seems like just the tactic a government at war would support, don't you think? Hell, kicking a man while he's down is underhanded too, but if it stops him from doing me any more harm, I'm sure as hell not going to hesitate. Fairness is not part of any equation that involves 'war'. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Ga'len Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:37:00 - [18] First off, post with your main. Second, war is rarely fair in the real world. Third, war dec's are war dec's and the point of a war dec is many fold, including affecting the outcome of a war. Why do you think there are high sec mercenary corps that war dec corps? They were hired to affect the outcome of a war. That's the point. Get over it or go back to WoW.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:42:00 - [19] Err, leave you corp, do two-three days of missions and join FW as a free merc? No wardec there.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:44:00 - [20] I've said it before and i'll say it again. I've got no problems with allowing the rest of the militia forces to fire back at a corp that has wardecced a militia FW corp. AS LONG AS that corp that wardecced can also shoot at ANYONE in the FW militia. Things would be a lot lot worse then.
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:53:00 - [21] Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 15/08/2008 14:54:22 Originally by: Ruze I've often considered what a 'neutral' group doing operations against enemy FW targets could accomplish. Specifically if you are willing to take a sec hit, use medium sized ships for fast destruction, call your targets and be picky, then retreat to hisec where your enemies can't attack without being CONCORDED. Faction navies != concord. If anyone is likely to earn Concord's wrath on a retreat to high-sec in the scenario you've described, it's the neutral attackers who will be picking up sec hits and global criminal flags.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:55:00 - [22] You do realize that preventing third parties from having any meaningful way of affecting Faction War is just another slide down the slippery slope to consensual PvP and arena-style combat. This does not belong in Eve, no matter how many people complain about it, because of Eve's founding philosophy of allowing chaotic interaction between all kinds of people in all kinds of situations.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:01:00 - [23] I don't have any issues with people being able to dec militia corps, but I do believe that if you dec a corp you should dec the whole militia - the militia takes the place of an alliance, it should at least half-ass work like one. ---
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:06:00 - [24] A player should be able to belong to several types of organizations, each independent of one another. For example, you should be able to be part of a player corporation, but also a member of your Empire's militia, instead of the current process of only allowing one type of organization (corporations). This overlaps, and in the process your corp mate is being attacked by an enemy militia? Or what if two corp mates are part of enemy militias? Personally, I'd allow corp mates to support one another in the former, and I'd allow the latter for reasons of 'why not?' Contested loyalties, and complications. So you warp in system and see one war target, and go after it. Little do you know, but that buddies corpmates run that system, and they jump in against you. So now they are flagged to your militia for 24 hours or so. Bah, flagging is all kinds of screwed already. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:06:00 - [25] Deccing a FW corp is not the problem... The problem they need to fix is allowing the entire militia to engage in the war. However, that will also lead to abuse. I can see alts making a FW corp to have another corp war dec them to THEN have the entire militia at war. I guess I just changed my own mind. Yea, the way it is now is pretty much the only viable option. However, lame it may be. You'll just have to join the npc corp to avoid such griefs. Corps and alliances, such as Star Fraction, have no real impact on FW, but yet they see the opportunity to pick off targets in Caldari FW borders, while still gaining the safety of Gallente space. If there's any clear fix to this, it would be having npc navies also engage the deccing corp in hisec space. That's probably a fair middleground. Oh, and to Jade... you'll never get alliances to be in a militia, so give it up. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Damion Zyne Des Esseintes Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:13:00 - [26] Edited by: Damion Zyne on 15/08/2008 15:15:36 Originally by: Pithecanthropus You'll just have to join the npc corp to avoid such griefs. Corps and alliances, such as Star Fraction, have no real impact on FW A war dec is part of Eve game play, dont see the griefing part esp. when you joined FW to do PvP. Also, for not having an impact this certainly generated an awefull amount of whine threads. Edit: Ah, saw the post about Pie, so I will take this part of my comment back and a "sorry" to Pie if they thinks its needed.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Jade Constantine post-nationalist anarcho capitalist freedom fighters Lol, Power to the people comrade!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Oh, and to Jade... you'll never get alliances to be in a militia, so give it up. The thing you've never really understood Pith, is that the reason I want alliance corps able to join the militias is that I believe the current miltias are just too weak and faction warfare is doomed to stutter and die out unless serious corporations are allowed to join. Most serious corporations join alliances is the reality in the current game setting. This has never been about SF joining a militia - as you can probably tell now its always been our intention to play a "3rd force" of irregular guerrillas attacking command and control corporations from the hisec "safe zones" of ideological enemies. Read up about SF ideology and realize why the militia thing was never going to be something we'd do as an alliance. If I have a personal interest in the Alliances in Militia push its this: I want the militias to have more serious corporations involved in FW so if SF continues its campaign of assassination and suppression in the future we'll get more decent fighting and have targets worthy of our abilities. Sorry if it hurts your feelings a bit that I think the current corporations involved with the Caldari militia are not that good - but the hard reality is that IF FW was opened up to Alliance corps as well you'd find your faction immeasurably improved in combat capability and challenge and the whole Faction warfare conflict would be re-energized by the involvement of some very serious talent. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Freighter Meh ....but when empire corps can war dec faction war participants for the sole reason of effecting the faction war outcome then that sounds a lot like a exploit to me. Sounds like sound tactics to me. Using guerilla irregulars to target an opponents Command and Control. How on earth is that an 'exploit'? C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Jade Constantine In this case you have joined a player corporation that has voluntarily sworn loyalty to a power-crazed fascist dictator responsible for for sparking a galactic war and involved in the ongoing civil oppression of his own countrymen. OMFG Quote: Welcome to the war. War is fine... I think your role playing has many flaws, but thats another story. I find the problem with the situation the war puts you and your deccing corp in. Giving you a safe haven in Gallente space, and having free roam of Caldari, yet YOU want to be a part of this FW, but you just don't want the consequences. Hmmf. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.

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