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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Chr0nosX
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:38:00 -
[3031]
Edited by: Chr0nosX on 29/07/2008 01:44:58 Edited by: Chr0nosX on 29/07/2008 01:39:16
Originally by: Internet Knight
Silly sillyness
So you think there shouldn't be roaming gangs into hostile space? If in a bc/c gang - w.e and you decide to fight most likely in hostile space you will most likely get blobbed as fighting - drake warps in, apoc warps in, falcon decloaks etc. I think nanos maybe need a change instead of lowering all speed why not just nerf the speed of some ships let mini still go fast, let inties still go fast. The problem with this change is it essentailly kills roaming gangs - eve has changed there are far more blobs when I started - 2006. I hated nano gangs so I trained for a rapier. It's my favourite ship. The vaga comes along attacking your battleship - decloak bam dead vaga.
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Delos Korelian
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:38:00 -
[3032]
Edited by: Delos Korelian on 29/07/2008 01:39:09 Didn't SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) killed the Starwars by trying to please the whiners and allow cookie-cutter Jedi crap?
I mean this is pretty much similar to that nerf. CCP, and a particular developer, buckling to bunch of whiners and are making the game more "regular" mmmo, where even the stupidest can survive. If this is the case, then forget it, make 0.0 small, increase Empire space, add L4 Agents to every station, remove .4 -.1 and lets all hold hands and sing something nice.
It takes skill and it takes allot of ISK to fit a really good speedy ship, we are talking billions upon billions in implants and in faction gear. Putting that on the line takes balls, and many people do it.
Vanilla nano ships can be killed quite easily, it has been evidenced on the forums by the same people who fly them, at the same time this is so detrimental to the game it is disgusting.
What I want to know is when did CCP Nozh joined the CCP, for how many years has he been playing the game before joining CCP, and if he came from EA or SOE to the CCP? Because, guys, if he came to you from SOE or EA, I would put my tinfoil hat on and say that this is an inside job to get you guys out of business, or make you loose a market share. (Text in Italics is a Joke, for the forum trolls)
Seriously the speed needs balancing, no questions asked, there are no arguments about it, even from those who love the NANO, including myself. It is the form that this "balancing" takes which surprises me. Such sweeping changes will imbalance the game further.
You will have to reevaluate the missiles, the sniper ships, the blaster boats, and the T2 ships. Because as things go, thats pretty much what this nerf affects" everything, in one way or another.
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Internet Knight
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:45:00 -
[3033]
Originally by: Chr0nosX Edited by: Chr0nosX on 29/07/2008 01:39:16
Originally by: Internet Knight
Silly sillyness
So you think there shouldn't be roaming gangs into hostile space? If in a bc/c gang - w.e and you decide to fight most likely in hostile space you will most likely get blobbed as fighting - drake warps in, apoc warps in, falcon decloaks etc. I think nanos maybe need a change instead of lowering all speed why not just nerf the speed of some ships let mini still go fast, let inties still go fast. The problem with this change is it essentailly kills roaming gangs - eve has changed there are far more blobs when I started - 2006. I hated nano gangs so I trained for a rapier. It's my favourite ships. The vaga comes along attacking your battleship - decloak bam dead vaga.
Your post doesn't make sense. You're attacking me without even reading what I said, you're attacking blobs, you're attacking nanos, you're supporting nanos, you're supporting blobs.
Be more consistent please.
--- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
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Chr0nosX
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:47:00 -
[3034]
Originally by: Internet Knight Your post doesn't make sense. You're attacking me without even reading what I said, you're attacking blobs, you're attacking nanos, you're supporting nanos, you're supporting blobs.
Be more consistent please.
Yes it does. I never supported blobs in my post I also showed that nanos need some change but the suggested is bad. I also showed nanos can be countered like in a rapier.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2008.07.29 01:59:00 -
[3035]
Anyone ANYONE who thinks that nano-ships are some kind of IWIN needs to look herder at the mechanics. Assuming we ignore the nano-ishtar, which is overpowered for a lot of different reasons.
A solo nano-ship can't do a damn thing. It just can't.
A vaga (the poster child of nanos) does like less than 200dps at fall off. What they hell can you kill doing 200dps ? Barges ? Haulers ?
A lone ratting BS is still probably not a viable target for one nano-ship. Sure you can shake the guy up a bit, but you won't kill him. Eventually you run out of ammo, or get bored, or make a mistake and you leave. Thats it.
Its only when theres a big blog of nano ships that people start getting ****y. And, looked at rationally, 3 or 4 ships of pretty much any kind can rip up any other single ship as long as its not too much bigger than them. So yeah ... Nano ships aren't 'IWIN' they are just 'IAMLESSLIKELYTOLOOSE'. Now thats a rather different thing to deal with. I agree to making them more vulnerable. Thats fine. It should be hard to be hard to kill.
People who say its unfair to be able to disengage once you start fighting .... Seriously... Have you NEVER disengaged ? Never docked up ? Never jumped out a gate rather than fight ? Never warped to a safespot then back to a station ? It should not just be a coin flip when you get into a fight. You need to be able to choose if you want to fight or not.
I totally don't agree with totally removing this facet from the game. We NEED ways to not just be rolling the dice everytime we fight. I mean, as much of the skill in eve is in fitting a ship as in flying it.
By the standard of anti-nano arguaments, damage fitted ships are unfair. The shout of 'OMG he killed me before i had a chance to shoot back NERFNERFNERFNERF' is JUST around the corner I swear.
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Arcane Carnage
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:08:00 -
[3036]
Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 29/07/2008 02:11:17 Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 29/07/2008 02:09:40 SRS POST
ok me and a corp m8, Goldsnake, have been testing now for what seems like more than long enough on the new sisi build. We tried alot of 1v1 setups and some gang ones with the help of lots of friends and randoms (props to you all).
However the most game breaking comparison we could find was as follows.
Arcane Carnage - Vagabond Goldsnake - Rifter (Tarnag - Claymore)
Vaga - High grade snake set - 4 bil shaquils speed enhancer - 800 mil Deadspace mwd - 500 mil T1 polycarbons - 75 mil faction other fittings 350 mil (2 gyro 1 nano od + point)
Rifter - no implants full t1 fitting (t2 guns) - 1.2mil
(I will not be telling you the setup incase this game ruining patch actually goes through)
Claymore - max skilled running 3 x gangmods + mindlink
vaga topspeed - 4.9km/s rifter topspeed - somthing less claymore - it could have been a station
(assume max spec skills all involved pilots)
ok rifter started off popping drones, then managed to get an overloaded web on during slow 14k orbit (so i could actually hit it with guns) followed by a overloaded scram. It then proceeded for the next 12 minutes to orbit me while i couldnt actually hit it with anything but a hml which was hitting for around 30 damage and being easily passive tanked unable to mwd or well do anything except watch myself die.
2 mil rifter > 6 bil vaga... -
Illuminati - Pathetic Legion
Ures truly kickin' ass Carn |
Arlenna Molatov
Caldari The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:17:00 -
[3037]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: SomeHardLovin Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:56 Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:22 The people claiming the sky will fall really need to relax. A vast majority of people don't even take advantage of the speed thing. It will barely effect them except they will get ganked less.
It does suck for those who have spent a lot of coin on their nanoship hangar. I get that.
If everything is nerfed evenly you will still go faster than almost anything else and you will still have the advantage over most ships you currently gank in your nano ship (ie: T1's). You might not do 11,000ms anymore.. but realistically that was crazyness anyhow. Why would a big cruiser or worse, battleship, go faster and turn better than a built-for-speed interceptor?? that makes no sence.
The fix needs to be done.. but how exactly is certainly debateable.
You don't get it, because you don't fly nanogangs. Nanoships are extremely flimsy, low DPS ships. They can go about 3.5-5kms generally, and only the insane ones go above 10kms. This is not about saving the insane ones. Nerf em. But if you take a 3.5kms nanoship and reduce it to 2.5kms, it is dead meat. It costs 200-350m and it is dead meat. Any Tier 2 BC will be better to fly. Blobs will always win, even if they are ******edly stupid, since all they have to do is fly ravens and drakes and lob missiles. Even monkeys could do that. The only defence that exists against missiles is speed for a HAC, and now that gets nerfed they lose all reason to exist.
No dumbsh....I mean Draco, YOU dont get it!! CCP already told you and ALl your nano*** buddies that the overclocked speeds break their physics engine. So guess what, they are going to change it wether you fricking like it or not.
The sooner you understand that, the sooner you and your nano*** brothers can click the CANCEL on your accounts.
Thanks for playing and have a nice day!
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Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:32:00 -
[3038]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: SomeHardLovin Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:56 Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:22 The people claiming the sky will fall really need to relax. A vast majority of people don't even take advantage of the speed thing. It will barely effect them except they will get ganked less.
It does suck for those who have spent a lot of coin on their nanoship hangar. I get that.
If everything is nerfed evenly you will still go faster than almost anything else and you will still have the advantage over most ships you currently gank in your nano ship (ie: T1's). You might not do 11,000ms anymore.. but realistically that was crazyness anyhow. Why would a big cruiser or worse, battleship, go faster and turn better than a built-for-speed interceptor?? that makes no sence.
The fix needs to be done.. but how exactly is certainly debateable.
You don't get it, because you don't fly nanogangs. Nanoships are extremely flimsy, low DPS ships. They can go about 3.5-5kms generally, and only the insane ones go above 10kms. This is not about saving the insane ones. Nerf em. But if you take a 3.5kms nanoship and reduce it to 2.5kms, it is dead meat. It costs 200-350m and it is dead meat. Any Tier 2 BC will be better to fly. Blobs will always win, even if they are ******edly stupid, since all they have to do is fly ravens and drakes and lob missiles. Even monkeys could do that. The only defence that exists against missiles is speed for a HAC, and now that gets nerfed they lose all reason to exist.
No dumbsh....I mean Draco, YOU dont get it!! CCP already told you and ALl your nano*** buddies that the overclocked speeds break their physics engine. So guess what, they are going to change it wether you fricking like it or not.
The sooner you understand that, the sooner you and your nano*** brothers can click the CANCEL on your accounts.
Thanks for playing and have a nice day!
And what you don't seem to understand is that nerfing everything dealing with speed is also not the answer. Ignorant posts like this don't help solve the problem.
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Battlecheese
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:39:00 -
[3039]
Originally by: Arcane Carnage ok rifter started off popping drones, then managed to get an overloaded web on during slow 14k orbit (so i could actually hit it with guns) followed by a overloaded scram. It then proceeded for the next 12 minutes to orbit me while i couldnt actually hit it with anything but a hml which was hitting for around 30 damage and being easily passive tanked unable to mwd or well do anything except watch myself die.
2 mil rifter > 6 bil vaga...
Clearly you have never flown a moa or Ferox? This is actualy what usually happens to a turret ship without shortrange guns.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:41:00 -
[3040]
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: Arcane Carnage ok rifter started off popping drones, then managed to get an overloaded web on during slow 14k orbit (so i could actually hit it with guns) followed by a overloaded scram. It then proceeded for the next 12 minutes to orbit me while i couldnt actually hit it with anything but a hml which was hitting for around 30 damage and being easily passive tanked unable to mwd or well do anything except watch myself die.
2 mil rifter > 6 bil vaga...
Clearly you have never flown a moa or Ferox? This is actualy what usually happens to a turret ship without shortrange guns.
I can't tell you how many times I've been flyin' around with my alt's Vaga, thinking, 'god DAMN would i love this ship if it were more like a ferox.'
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
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Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:43:00 -
[3041]
Edited by: Markas Crais on 29/07/2008 02:43:17
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: Arcane Carnage ok rifter started off popping drones, then managed to get an overloaded web on during slow 14k orbit (so i could actually hit it with guns) followed by a overloaded scram. It then proceeded for the next 12 minutes to orbit me while i couldnt actually hit it with anything but a hml which was hitting for around 30 damage and being easily passive tanked unable to mwd or well do anything except watch myself die.
2 mil rifter > 6 bil vaga...
Clearly you have never flown a moa or Ferox? This is actualy what usually happens to a turret ship without shortrange guns.
I think his point is that MWD is completely useless with the new scram feature and web nerf. Clearly, this is a turret nerf as well.
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Trilli Shaw
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:51:00 -
[3042]
First of all I would like to have some data from CCP
- How many people are in an active clone using high grade snakes?
- How many people have t2 speed rigs fitted to their ships?
- How many people have deadspace mwd's fitted to their ships and how many have t2 mwd fitted?
- How many speed tanking ships were killed (with/without podkill) in the last 3 months and what isk damage was inflicted?
- How many ships were killed by 'nano' ships in the last 3 months and what isk damage was inflicted?
- How many ships were killed by non-'nano' ships in the last 3 months and what isk damage was inflicted?
- At what point of speed is the current physics engine failing and cannot handle the game any more?
Surely CCP has all the numbers available and considered them before they made any decision to change the game in such a drastic way. So they only need to hand out those numbers.
Certainly they didn't base their game design decision on just forum/petition whines yelling 'bug bug! i cannot hit him!'. And when the devs on Sisi say that speed tanking is the most dominant style of play, then they can easily back up this statement by solid numbers, right?
Please give out some numbers CCP, especially those numbers above since you MUST have them considered before you planned such a big change in gameplay which is going to affect everyone and everything.
Thanks.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 02:53:00 -
[3043]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov Anyone ANYONE who thinks that nano-ships are some kind of IWIN needs to look herder at the mechanics. Assuming we ignore the nano-ishtar, which is overpowered for a lot of different reasons.
Uh dunno. Vagas can kill nano ishtars (if pilot has a clue). Zealot will **** em. Heck even sacrilege can do this or solo huginn. All ships have their natural enemies and ishtar isnt excluded from this. In this case fast gunboats > nano ishtar.
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Velvet69
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:10:00 -
[3044]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: SomeHardLovin Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:56 Edited by: SomeHardLovin on 28/07/2008 18:42:22 The people claiming the sky will fall really need to relax. A vast majority of people don't even take advantage of the speed thing. It will barely effect them except they will get ganked less.
It does suck for those who have spent a lot of coin on their nanoship hangar. I get that.
If everything is nerfed evenly you will still go faster than almost anything else and you will still have the advantage over most ships you currently gank in your nano ship (ie: T1's). You might not do 11,000ms anymore.. but realistically that was crazyness anyhow. Why would a big cruiser or worse, battleship, go faster and turn better than a built-for-speed interceptor?? that makes no sence.
The fix needs to be done.. but how exactly is certainly debateable.
You don't get it, because you don't fly nanogangs. Nanoships are extremely flimsy, low DPS ships. They can go about 3.5-5kms generally, and only the insane ones go above 10kms. This is not about saving the insane ones. Nerf em. But if you take a 3.5kms nanoship and reduce it to 2.5kms, it is dead meat. It costs 200-350m and it is dead meat. Any Tier 2 BC will be better to fly. Blobs will always win, even if they are ******edly stupid, since all they have to do is fly ravens and drakes and lob missiles. Even monkeys could do that. The only defence that exists against missiles is speed for a HAC, and now that gets nerfed they lose all reason to exist.
No dumbsh....I mean Draco, YOU dont get it!! CCP already told you and ALl your nano*** buddies that the overclocked speeds break their physics engine. So guess what, they are going to change it wether you fricking like it or not.
The sooner you understand that, the sooner you and your nano*** brothers can click the CANCEL on your accounts.
Thanks for playing and have a nice day!
And what you dont get , is that even after whatever changes are made to the nano ships , the people who fly them will still be good pvpers and you will still be shit.
Fly safe
o/ Velve
IXC Velvet69 Proud Member of 'The House of Prawn' |
Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:16:00 -
[3045]
Hahaha 117 pages? I don't think even the WCS nerf triggered such a whine!
Oh well, thanks CCP for having the guts to rebalance a system with obvious flaws from the very bottom. Where the earlier nano nerfs with adding stacking penalties were a step into the right direction, this one has the potential to balance the warfare ideals of the four races.
/me goes to sell all the stacked up alloyed trit bars
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:28:00 -
[3046]
Originally by: Disco Flint Hahaha 117 pages?....
...this one has the potential to balance the warfare ideals of the four races.
Listen to that man, he has obviously a clue!
And he really gave answer to at least 20 very specific question about non-nano ships which will be affected heavily by this nerf.
Bravo, I salute you ... not.
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Kira Novia
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:29:00 -
[3047]
Originally by: Disco Flint Hahaha 117 pages? I don't think even the WCS nerf triggered such a whine!
Oh well, thanks CCP for having the guts to rebalance a system with obvious flaws from the very bottom. Where the earlier nano nerfs with adding stacking penalties were a step into the right direction, this one has the potential to balance the warfare ideals of the four races.
/me goes to sell all the stacked up alloyed trit bars
A useless reply from someone who has not bothered to test anything on SiSi. God I love these people. </sarcasm>
Balance war ideals of the four races you say? Screws Minmatar speed-boats. Screws Gallente Blaster Boats. And gives Caldari an upper hand. Oh yes. Very balanced.
Personally, I think you're a ****ing idiot.
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Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
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Posted - 2008.07.29 03:53:00 -
[3048]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Katarlia Simov Anyone ANYONE who thinks that nano-ships are some kind of IWIN needs to look herder at the mechanics. Assuming we ignore the nano-ishtar, which is overpowered for a lot of different reasons.
Uh dunno. Vagas can kill nano ishtars (if pilot has a clue). Zealot will **** em. Heck even sacrilege can do this or solo huginn. All ships have their natural enemies and ishtar isnt excluded from this. In this case fast gunboats > nano ishtar.
Nono... you missed what i was trying to say. I wasn't saying the ishtar can't be killed by other nanos. Not at all. I was hinting towards the fact that it can achieve fast speed while doing its full amount of damage, and that this amount of damage is probably a lil too large even for a HAC. Context 4tw.
But you can kill an Ishtar's drones and then it has shit damage.
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Evil Pookie
BURN EDEN Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:08:00 -
[3049]
I think its safe to assume at this point that noone is reading this thread. Especially not anyone from ccp. But keep the bitter tears flowing, it amuses me
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catherda
Gallente Black Scorpion Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:11:00 -
[3050]
Come on people haven't you figured out by now. That ccp isn't even smart enough to replace servers that use gerbils and hamsters from 1966, let alone to figure it out to really even out the game they should of update turrets and guns who needed for a long time with better tracking and faster firing rates and give the bigger ships a little more speed. Noooo they aren't even smart enough to figure out what this kinda of mistake this is by actually using math. so I am gonna do it for them before patch 30,000 players *15.99 a month = the company just from players earns 479,700 a month. If this patch goes through and everyone who says they gonna leave just about 15000 players the company loses 254,700 a month. Leaving monthly profits of 225,000 monthly. now keep in mind this is rough estimate but Devs my suggestion . Pay attention what players say cause it might mean your behind being canned due to lay offs.
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Aenis Veros
Caldari Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:14:00 -
[3051]
Originally by: Evil Pookie I think its safe to assume at this point that noone is reading this thread. Especially not anyone from ccp. But keep the bitter tears flowing, it amuses me
Why would they read it? They wouldn't have made the code and put it on Sisi if they weren't intending to put it on Tranquility. Maybe with a slight figure change in one or two modules. I have never seen CCP roll out an announced patch on Sisi that didn't make it to Tranquility at least 90% the same as announced.
Buy lots of named webs and start trashing those polycarbons gentlemen.
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Markas Crais
House of Dying Laggers
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:19:00 -
[3052]
Originally by: Aenis Veros
Originally by: Evil Pookie I think its safe to assume at this point that noone is reading this thread. Especially not anyone from ccp. But keep the bitter tears flowing, it amuses me
Why would they read it? They wouldn't have made the code and put it on Sisi if they weren't intending to put it on Tranquility. Maybe with a slight figure change in one or two modules. I have never seen CCP roll out an announced patch on Sisi that didn't make it to Tranquility at least 90% the same as announced.
Buy lots of named webs and start trashing those polycarbons gentlemen.
It doesn't matter so much about the webs. They've been nerfed too much that they're not as effective as just putting a scram on to deactivate someone's MWD, unless they're using an AB, which is still a pretty bad mod.
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JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:39:00 -
[3053]
Originally by: Tomic My first thoughts are that you fail on the final point made in the goals "Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic." With yet another speed nerf (already had two) you make guerrilla warfare less and less viable. The only thing that makes it possible for a small gang to fight a larger gang is the ability to "speed tank". In other words, the fact that missiles and drones can't hit you, and that larger ships have trouble hitting smaller ships at speed is the ONLY thing keeping you alive. If you take this away, all you will do is give every advantage to the blob. It seems to me that far from discouraging blob warfare, CCP actually seek to encourage it. Guess this is the end of the lag free fight :(
Blobs take time to assemble and they move slower, unlikely to catch a smaller guerrilla gang. The nerf should not effect these tactics as much as you think. It will increase your risk, but thats a fair trade off in preventing you from flying through enemy space at missile like speeds. |
JSO Milic
JSO Intel
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:44:00 -
[3054]
Originally by: Arcane Carnage Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 25/07/2008 11:00:29yeah blastboats needed nerfing long live overpowered pulse geddons!
yeh well umm, like less then 10% of pvpers in 0.0 fly amarr ships so, what are you worried about |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.29 04:59:00 -
[3055]
The whining is strong in this thread. Especially amusing are all the Nano***s who think themselves as PvP-Pilots. Everyone who tried to avoid flying a Nanoship is a Carebear and should adapt or die, right?
Sorry Friends but I have fought long before Nano ever became a problem and I will still be here, after your favorite toy is removed.
Let's see who of you guys is really competent at PvP and who of you is just a one-trick-pony that is going to die horribly when flying anything other than Nano.
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Titan Pilot
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.29 05:01:00 -
[3056]
Originally by: Evil Pookie I think its safe to assume at this point that noone is reading this thread. Especially not anyone from ccp. But keep the bitter tears flowing, it amuses me
Its nice to see you back in Vale. And just a guess, but I bet this patch hurts when you sit down...
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.29 05:03:00 -
[3057]
Right, before I forget, here's my take of what I saw on SISI tonight.
1) Nanos got overnerfed. The only T2 Cruiser or BC that was able to get up to the 3-3.5km/s mark was the Vagabond from what we saw, everything else only reached around 2.1-2.5. Non-Vagabonds are very vulnerable to missiles and turrets alike, and its like you're flying something made of paper that has a machine gun firing at it, making no sense to nano them. Similarly, Vagas weren't that great either, with PulsApocs getting about a 50% hit ratio at their full transversal under the BS's optimal - missiles had the potential to do serious damage.
2) Falcons, Nighthawks, and Apocalypses are all very good. One of our EW pilots ran the numbers, and it would take a tackler a good minute to run him down from 200km range, while he's jamming almost with impunity. Only sniper-fit BSes or Eagles really stand a chance at doing damage against them, and its pretty difficult so long as they can utilize the "decloak, jam, recloak" technique to their advantage.
The latter two ships are great against sub-BC targets, be they T1 or T2. The Nighthawk's precision bonus makes it swat very hard against these types, rendering Vagabonds into scrap metal in short order - in addition, as mentioned above the Apocs are also quite powerful. Of special note is the fact that with this patch, CCP seems to have created a perfect storm, by reducing nanos and therefore their associated transversal, while a while back boosting pulse's tracking to a nice level. Not only can a PulseApoc do serious damage with a short-range setup, competitive with its BS rivals, it can load Scorch and dominate the mid-range, where nanos now can't get up to a sufficient speed to evade fire on a consistent basis.
3) Webs suck. This does allow for some potential by frigates and small ships to get under the guns a bit, but makes the BS a less viable option solo or without significant support. One unfortunate note is that it does encourage tight formations, where multiple webs from other BSes can be applied to slow it down enough to be killed. Hyenas are also suffering from this, with only 1 or 2 webs at their disposal.
4) RR BS gangs are still quite effective. Myself and two others tanked a hefty amount of firepower with the assistance of a Falcon for the better part of 5-10 minutes before loosing our first ship. I do see these more as a lowsec option, as being slow and immobile is more tolerable when stations are everywhere, bubbles aren't deployable, and there aren't a ton of locals out for your blood - in 0.0, that's a different story, and raises the number of people necessary in a gang to high levels.
Didn't get around to trying out the 7.5km scram yet, I'll try and think about it tomorrow. That being said though, seriously, the test server is not a reflection of what you would see in game. Unless the devs take the initiative and contact corps to try and test a variety of scenarios out, I don't think any real information of value will be obtained. FFA1 can give decent information regarding first-order effects, like what ships are powerful and not, tactics that need to be weakened and the like, but it doesn't really factor in tactics, terrain, or obstacles that are found "out there".
Click me! You know you want to... |
TheAdj
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.29 05:14:00 -
[3058]
Something that seems to have slipped under the radar here is the ridiculous nerf to officer webs. What the christ, was this seriously necessary? 25/30km 75% webs weren't super amazing before, and I really don't enjoy the range on my module I paid good money for cut in half for shits and giggles, it's not like a lot of them were being used to begin with :/ ----------------
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Pheleus
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.29 06:05:00 -
[3059]
Originally by: Arcane Carnage Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 29/07/2008 02:11:17 Edited by: Arcane Carnage on 29/07/2008 02:09:40 SRS POST
ok me and a corp m8, Goldsnake, have been testing now for what seems like more than long enough on the new sisi build. We tried alot of 1v1 setups and some gang ones with the help of lots of friends and randoms (props to you all).
However the most game breaking comparison we could find was as follows.
Arcane Carnage - Vagabond Goldsnake - Rifter (Tarnag - Claymore)
Vaga - High grade snake set - 4 bil shaquils speed enhancer - 800 mil Deadspace mwd - 500 mil T1 polycarbons - 75 mil faction other fittings 350 mil (2 gyro 1 nano od + point)
Rifter - no implants full t1 fitting (t2 guns) - 1.2mil
(I will not be telling you the setup incase this game ruining patch actually goes through)
Claymore - max skilled running 3 x gangmods + mindlink
vaga topspeed - 4.9km/s rifter topspeed - somthing less claymore - it could have been a station
(assume max spec skills all involved pilots)
ok rifter started off popping drones, then managed to get an overloaded web on during slow 14k orbit (so i could actually hit it with guns) followed by a overloaded scram. It then proceeded for the next 12 minutes to orbit me while i couldnt actually hit it with anything but a hml which was hitting for around 30 damage and being easily passive tanked unable to mwd or well do anything except watch myself die.
2 mil rifter > 6 bil vaga...
If you have time Fraps it stick it on the forums adn see if CCP can explain it.
P
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Antiequilibrium
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.29 06:09:00 -
[3060]
First of all, I haven't read this entire thread (120 something pages, yeah right) so excuse me if I'm repeating what has already been said a hundred times. But holy ****ing over-the-top gameplay changes, Batman! Seems like a case of the minority ruining it for the majority here. I could probably count on one hand the number of pilots who fly around 0.0 space with a head full of HG Snakes/T2 Polycarbs/Deadspace MWDs etc.
Some of the proposed changes seem fair, I think most could agree that even T1 Polycarbs are slightly imbalanced atm. But a lot of the changes seem like massive overkill to me. It's like CCP is only seeing in black and white. I really hope the devs are actually reading some of the responses in this thread, there have been some quality points made (for and against!). It seems crazy to implement a change of this scale to a game that is over 5 years old! Out with the massive nerfs (and ****ing off thousands of subscribers) and in with the boosts!
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