Originally by: Boz Well

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Or, see how many racist/homosexual/political/survey/whatever else people think of free newsletters people subscribe you to, if you were stupid enough to post your real address/phone on the interweb.

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1) The nerf doesn't fix anything, ships will still be able to go beyond the magic number and receive no damage, it's just a little harder.
The mechanics is broken, hit effects and missiles are heavily simplified, instead of motion predictive effects, acceleration or deltaV, you have raw speed and transversal vs range determine the damage you receive. Until you fix this, you will not receive a fair mechanic for either side.

2) Most of the PvP'ers who you see as for nano's, are really just against the ******s you can't figure out how to deal with a tactic in the game.
The real question is how do you deal with neuts and ECM?

3) 100mill ISK Cruisers flying at 2-3kms (before gang mods) did actually make sense, they where not immune to all damage, just stupid caldari HAM spammers (lasers really hurt Sad) and had a use/role outside that of what battlecruisers and frigs did.

4) People just can't seem to grasp the fact that you cant kill what you can't catch, it's a fundamental law of nature, if it's faster than you, it's going to get away, just as people will blob or go home when faced with an objective. It's just sheer pandering and idiocy that suggests we should be able to 'force engagements' magically, against anything that we are unable to out manoeuvre.

5) And what happens when we force an engagement???? The magical holy grail of PvP???? You either tank and gank, die, get ECM'ed or lag strikes and your left with the role of a dice... 80% of tactics and strategy in EvE revolves around starting a fight, unfortunately, it's like masturbating with sandpaper with a pay-off less pleasant than a poke in the eye with a rusty stick. Until there are more real time tactics in eve you shouldn't be touting that OMG, we cant force engagements bullcrap.

6) Most of EvE's problems fundamentally revolves around the laziness/ineptitude of the dev's, it took them 1 year to write that dev blog, jesusteddy****ingchrist, someone give them a noble prize.

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the nerfing of nanos only serves to strengthen the DEFENSIVE side of EVE even more. The defense already has an undeniable advantage in large-scale gameplay, thus REDUCING fights. Nerfing nanos brings the scale even more in favor of a defensive style of play, thus REDUCING fights.

CCP needs to learn that they need to facilitate OFFENSIVE play, to make ATTACKING the normal mode of play. Offense is dynamic, defense is static and boring. Do they want to turn the game into a feudal contest where nobody leaves their borders except to siege a POS?

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Originally by: Smokie McLottapot

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2008 21:06:52
Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2008 21:05:35

Originally by: Haakelen

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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so going 45,000 m/s isn't overpowered or game breaking?

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What ****ing ship in this game can go 45,000m/s? A completely maxed out, snaked, mindlinked claymore boosted gistii a-type t2 poly rigged stiletto overheating the MWD? You are throwing around strawmen like the ****** you are. That does not apply to 99.9% of situations in this game, and you know it.

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no duh it doesn't, didn't you read the blog?

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Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for.

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also more importantly a cruiser shouldn't be an interceptor.

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Combining all of the above with a faction MWD results in as much as an eightfold increase in speed over what a vessel can reach with a normal tech2 MWD. If one then takes a look at the max velocity on missiles and drones, it is readily apparent that our combat system was never designed for such speeds.

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Well we know 2 things about you, you fly in a blob and don't have enough balls to post with your main.

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Originally by: DelboyTrotter

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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For those of you against this change, I'm curious how you would kill the following little gang using 12 ships:

3 x 6km/s Rapiers
3 x 6km/s Curses
3 x 6km/s Ishtars
3 x Falcons

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Spending the same amount of isk that those ships cost would give you roughly 50 Drakes (including the insurance)

50x Drakes armed with FoFs for the 12 or so that get jammed. Before the nerf the recon gang would be decimated if they were stupid enough to engage.

Now think what it would be like after, when all the missiles are hitting for full damage as the recons are moving at 2-3km/s

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Originally by: DefJam101

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Yes that is quite obvious m8. :P Even assuming all of these things this still doesn't really prevent them from running away as soon as shit goes down. Which is some very complicated shit to counter a single gang of idiots. (Idiots with nice bookmarks?)

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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The for and against nano nerf threads seem to be telling the story of how ppl feel.

AGAINST THE NERF 15 PAGES SO FAR:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371

FOR THE NERF TO GO AHEAD 5 PAGES:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832369

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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The for and against nano nerf threads seem to be telling the story of how ppl feel.

AGAINST THE NERF 15 PAGES SO FAR:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832371

FOR THE NERF TO GO AHEAD 5 PAGES:

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=832369

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Originally by: Mioelnir

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Originally by: DefJam101

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Yes that is quite obvious m8. :P Even assuming all of these things this still doesn't really prevent them from running away as soon as shit goes down. Which is some very complicated shit to counter a single gang of idiots. (Idiots with nice bookmarks?)

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That is the nice thing about theorycrafting.

See, if the timing is right, and the 9 ships at the gate MWD out of the HIC bubble just as the Maelstroms exit warp, they are most likely not aligned to something to warp out and their MWD activation increased their align time + a bit of surprise and the +15% scan resolution from the mindlinked Eos can be enough for every Maelstrom to get one volley off.

Now all you need is a statistically improbable streak of wrecking shots (ask the inventors about that one...), perfect target calling by the cheetah and only one of the 9 to get stuck between discophoon and gate to kill them all.

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Originally by: Destiny Calling

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Edited by: Destiny Calling on 27/12/2006 14:40:19
edited for simplicity
your idea is bad

Originally by: DefJam101

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Yes that is quite obvious m8. :P Even assuming all of these things this still doesn't really prevent them from running away as soon as shit goes down. Which is some very complicated shit to counter a single gang of idiots. (Idiots with nice bookmarks?)

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Originally by: CCP Dionysus

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Originally by: Matrixcvd

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No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.

For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts

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Yes, I make sure to always keep my oxygen tank firmly strapped and active.

The speeds that are being nerfed are exactly those huge speeds. Ship travelling in the 2-5km/s or so range won't feel this too badly.

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Originally by: GO VOTE

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AGAINST THE "NANO" NERF

FOR THE "NANO" NERF

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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Originally by: CCP Dionysus

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Originally by: Matrixcvd

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No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.

For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts

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Yes, I make sure to always keep my oxygen tank firmly strapped and active.

The speeds that are being nerfed are exactly those huge speeds. Ship travelling in the 2-5km/s or so range won't feel this too badly.

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so the current majority nano group is fine? aka the 3-4km/s hacs, and the vaga that goes a bit faster around 5km/s

and yet you change oh so much, when you think the problem is the uber pimped shit.

lovely

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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In the end, either go at them with caps or roam in another region. Some places are too well defended and robbing those defenders of all that organization (that's tactics too, isnt it) by allowing a bunch of tricked-out-low-slot-abusing cruisers to roam around unscathed is just, not, right.

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Originally by: CCP Dionysus

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Originally by: Heartstone

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So umm no offense but can we have an answer to them rather than answering the flippant ones please? Such as my question about how you are going to test the wide ranging implications of a change like this when you need the numbers to do so which simply aren't ever going to be available on SISI?

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None taken at all.

Yes, the design and testing of these changes has already taken a lot of time and arguments here in CCP. But the range of testing has mainly been done to see that ships are balanced in speed and still able to be hit by appropriate weapon types, so most tests have involved small numbers of ships with very mixed weapon setups.

eg, Crow with speed setup vs a harp at extreme range, vs a kestrel with light missiles, and vs a drone boat using light drones. - or a vagabond vs a set of cruisers using turrets, missiles, and med drones to try to hit it etc. The ships have been balanced so far so that frigate sized ships can, with fitting, hit any other frigate sized ship, same for cruisers and battleships.

We are not sure about the final impact of things like the additional MWD disable effect of scramblers (just that it works and so far seems to give balanced results)

We have a month of time on Sisi to get play tests with more numbers. We would like to see some tests like a gatecamp setup, or a close in brawl, or an attempt at a hit/run attack. The things that are going on sisi need further playtesting and balancing - the values that have been given are not final and will be changed according to how the playtests go.

From the test we have done so far, a "speed setup" ship can still become pretty much invulnerable to ships that are not setup to counter them, but now an enemy that knows to expect "nano ships" will be able to have a serious effect, rather than just scaring them away.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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so going 45,000 m/s isn't overpowered or game breaking?

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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Oh and do I get an all level 5 character to test stuff out on the test server? Also requesting the ability to spawn faction mwds, overdrives, and shaquils implant.

if not, I can't test a full snake set, or any ships other than zealot/crow, tech 2 rigs, or any of the game breaking stuff...

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Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2

Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2

Implants. full snake set.

No special named modules etc.

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Originally by: CCP Dionysus

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The reactivation delay only comes into effect when the module turns off - ie, the modules will continue and cycle until you turn it off, run out of cap, or are scrambled.

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Originally by: Arthur Frayn

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How much to ruin all your holes, luv?

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Originally by: Gragnor

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Spped is not the issue for small gang tactics. Alpha strike and high dps is.

A trulky guerilla fighting style has nothing to do with speed. Its about finding your target, smashing it quickly and then running away.

So, the nerfing of speed is not the issue. The issue is restoring the alpha strike to minnie ships to rtebalance the loss of speed. By all means reduce speed, giove me agility instead. Let me hit like a sledgehammer and then warp away in five seconds..... then who cares about speed.

I see a blob, I warp in smash the highest dps ship as I am aligning and as it dies I warp out.

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