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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:01:00 -
[2581]
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: Natalia Kovac
*shrugs*. Failing that get a carrier and assign as many fighters as you can to the fastest ship you can get.
good way to lose fighters
Oh wait I thought of another one. Dock/cloak/POS hug until they get bored and look for some other targets. I don't know wtf kind of nano-gang you run into, but the one's i've seen... If they can't kill anything within ten minutes, they will usually go off and try and find a ratting Raven or something.
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Ivena Amethyst
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:02:00 -
[2582]
so.... where is this patch that was gonna come out today on sisi but clearly hasn't???
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Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:02:00 -
[2583]
Originally by: Haakelen Congratulations. This is my main. I don't claim to be particularly successful in anything, or an amazing oracle of any field. I'm a late 2006 player. Been in 0.0 on and off since 2007, including as late as a few weeks ago. The only thing I do claim to be is up to date on the 0.0 game mechanics.
Check battleclinic, and you'll find the only ships I've used in 0.0 in the past year have been Megathrons (Usually with rails), Thoraxes, and Ares. Because I've been in the role of a defender or didn't have the skills to do much else.
(serious) Have you tried to do asymmetric warfare in 0.0 since the introduction of cyno jammers and jump bridges?
Every form of combat in Eve (maybe not Titans) is perfectly reasonable, and there are no 'dirty tricks' or 'lesser' tactics. With that in mind,
It looks like you like using Abaddons a lot. Lowsec gatecamping?
OK, that's much better :-)
Abaddon is our ship-of-the-line for almost all engagements. Yes, we camp, but we also scan mission runners, hit belt ratters etc - anything to get the kill and the isk/loot. We've also taken to killing an awful lot of FWers lately too.
I left 0.0 not long after Cyno Jammers and Jumpgates came in - and I do appreciate the issue of logistics being far too easy now. However, I also don't agree with being able to go into a core alliance system, kill people and then leave with impunity even if the defences are suitable.
My opinion - and it is just that - is that Black Ops were brought in to give a high risk (iskwise) but alternate way to orchestrate these types of attack. The fact that they are horribly prenerfed doesn't help tho.
Grats on the ship usage tho - you didn't climb on the Nano-wagon :-)
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Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:03:00 -
[2584]
Originally by: Andnowthenews Considering that most of the nerfits are not really experienced 0.0 pvpers or even pvpers at all then yes you need experience to know wtf you are talking about id not strt lecturing ppl on mission running or mining as i have never done it and have no clue about it tbh.
And you know who my main is how? I dont owe you that information, I dont give a damn if you think that that information is needed to prove my ability to post on this subject. In other words you can get knotted.
I very very rarely purposefully post with my main because I enjoy winding up muppets who measure everything by kills/losses and to a lesser extent 0.0 experience, which by the way I have two accounts in large 0.0 alliances.
I'll say it again, you dont need to have killed loads of people or lost loads of ships to know that excessive speed is imbalanced. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:03:00 -
[2585]
Regarding Recon effectiveness:
MWD gives 500% speed bonus, or 625% bonus at max skills. Meaning 7.25 speed multiplier. Removing that speed multiplier is equivalent to a 86% web.
So, Lachesis/Arazu can fit an 18km 86% web that does not stack, i.e. the second "web" will not do anything. It also will do 0% webbing on a ship with AB or no MWD. But they can fit multiple ones.
Two 60% webs can be put on a single target and are equivalent to an 80% web with stacking, or 85% web without stacking.
So, Rapier/Huginn can fit a 30km 80% web that stacks with other webs, and affects ABing ships just as well.
Different ships, with Rapier/Huginn in general more effective for tackling, but Lachesis/Arazu have their advantages. Rapier/Huginn will not be obsolete, but will also not be the "one ship to stop them all." Not too great, but also not the end of the world. The only thing I'd like to happen would be web stacking to be removed. That would turn the the dual web into a 85% web, making the Rapier/Huginn basically equivalent to an Arazu/Lachesis on an MWDing ship, leaving the tradeoff between more range and more effectiveness on ABing ships on the one hand, and having a damp ship with 40km scram range on the other.
(This was announced when I was 1/3rd into minnie cruiser 5 :-))
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:06:00 -
[2586]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
I'll say it again, you dont need to have killed loads of people or lost loads of ships to know that excessive speed is imbalanced.
So your saying thast you do not need to know what your talking about to know what your talking about???.
ok bud
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Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:13:00 -
[2587]
Originally by: Andnowthenews Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 12:05:57
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
I'll say it again, you dont need to have killed loads of people or lost loads of ships to know that excessive speed is imbalanced.
So your saying that you do not need to know what your talking about to know what your talking about???.
ok bud
ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
Read my post again, two mains in 0.0 alliances. Do you think I have never been attacked by a nano, or indeed that my huginn with a arazu mate hasnt made life miserable for a nano***?
The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang. |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:17:00 -
[2588]
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 12:10:24
Originally by: Redback911
Abaddon is our ship-of-the-line for almost all engagements. Yes, we camp, but we also scan mission runners, hit belt ratters etc - anything to get the kill and the isk/loot.
They're quite fun to move around in when trimarked eh? . This whole nerf business wouldn't be quite as bad if they were going to increase the agility of battleships a bit. Don't forget the whole, gimping Blasters part. **** polycarbons, ganglinks, and snakes. Don't do a 180 on game mechanics.
Allows us to fight the blobs.
Originally by: Redback911
However, I also don't agree with being able to go into a core alliance system, kill people and then leave with impunity even if the defences are suitable.
The problem is, that alliances nowadays are dropping outposts in any half-decent ratting system and trying to spam out Sov 4. Ratters in 0.0 cannot be allowed to gather resources with impunity. It's bad enough there's the legion of cloaking farmers.
So the fix is to make Outposts destructible (as CCP said they would evaluate in time when they first introduced them). Removal or severe nerfing of cloaks from anything but the specialist ships isn't a bad idea. Almost every FWer we kill has a protocloak fitted :-) There are now more than enough special cloak ships in game to make this change possible.
Originally by: Redback911
My opinion - and it is just that - is that Black Ops were brought in to give a high risk (iskwise) but alternate way to orchestrate these types of attack. The fact that they are horribly prenerfed doesn't help tho.
Assuming CCP doesn't nerf cloaks next, that's reasonable. I just think that it's getting far too easy to operate in Alliance 0.0 space nowadays, what with NAP lists 30 pages long and everything else that's happened.
So what you are saying is that 0.0 is getting civilised? :-) An alliance should be able to protect it's space from roamers. It's the POS / Sov system that is utterly broken.
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:19:00 -
[2589]
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 12:20:14
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 12:05:57
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
I'll say it again, you dont need to have killed loads of people or lost loads of ships to know that excessive speed is imbalanced.
So your saying that you do not need to know what your talking about to know what your talking about???.
ok bud
ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
Read my post again, two mains in 0.0 alliances. Do you think I have never been attacked by a nano, or indeed that my huginn with a arazu mate hasnt made life miserable for a nano***?
The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang.
So you want gang fights to consist of 2 non moving dictor bubbled blobs sitting opposite each other plugging away until the gang with any ships left is considered the winner?.
Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?.
WOW your idea of eve pvp sounds like so much fun....NOT.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:22:00 -
[2590]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 12:25:55
Originally by: Redback911
Allows us to fight the blobs.
My corporation uses RR Battleship gangs a lot. I am not disputing that it works in similar ways to Nanos, allowing a numerically inferior force to challenge a larger one. It works just fine, and will continue to work. It is fine. CCP is removing an alternative, however.
Originally by: Redback911
So the fix is to make Outposts destructible (as CCP said they would evaluate in time when they first introduced them). Removal or severe nerfing of cloaks from anything but the specialist ships isn't a bad idea. Almost every FWer we kill has a protocloak fitted :-) There are now more than enough special cloak ships in game to make this change possible.
Either I'm misreading you, or you're misreading me. I'll put the blame on myself first: I read what you're saying, and take it as 'Recon gangs should replace the nano gangs to gank ratters'?
Originally by: Redback911
So what you are saying is that 0.0 is getting civilised? :-) An alliance should be able to protect it's space from roamers. It's the POS / Sov system that is utterly broken.
The problem is not that competent 0.0 Alliances are able to secure their space. The problem is that incompetent entities are whining that they should be able to have a 0.0 system 100% safe from anything except a capital onslaught because they have 15 ratters in it.
No argument that POS/Sov isn't utter shit. It isn't fun. 200v200, 75 BS vs 75 BS, isn't fun. It might be if it wasn't laggy, but still even then.
Originally by: Redback911
Why should you escape THEIR space, that YOU just raided, without loss?
So, Player Sov 0.0 should be safer for the defenders than Empire space?
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
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Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:25:00 -
[2591]
Originally by: Andnowthenews Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?. Quote:
Why should you escape THEIR space, that YOU just raided, without loss?
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:27:00 -
[2592]
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 12:29:03
Originally by: Redback911
Originally by: Andnowthenews Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?. Quote:
Why should you escape THEIR space, that YOU just raided, without loss?
It would only be without loss if they sucked at actually pvping or hid and jump bridged over us to camp the choke point. If they had any real skill in individual and gang pvp they should get plenty of kills (and so should we) and have great fun along the way.
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Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:31:00 -
[2593]
Originally by: Andnowthenews So you want gang fights to consist of 2 non moving dictor bubbled blobs sitting opposite each other plugging away until the gang with any ships left is considered the winner?.
Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?.
WOW your idea of eve pvp sounds like so much fun....NOT.
Sigh, quoting some smart dude :)
Quote: ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
If your PVP consists of always being in a bubbled fleet shooting at another bubbled fleet then your FC's are muppets. With the correct tactics a smaller BS gang will easily deal with a larger gang, not in all situations of course, but using your head > blobbing up 90% of the time. Remember, this is a PVP game, you dont walways win .... nano***s frequently forget that fact because of their low risk gameplay. |
Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:33:00 -
[2594]
Originally by: Redback911
Originally by: Andnowthenews Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?. Quote:
Why should you escape THEIR space, that YOU just raided, without loss?
Oh man i know you. You are never flew in space, just always did docking fought in low sec with your friend aka. Oberon Wolf. U talk about nano nerf ? LOL
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:39:00 -
[2595]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews So you want gang fights to consist of 2 non moving dictor bubbled blobs sitting opposite each other plugging away until the gang with any ships left is considered the winner?.
Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?.
WOW your idea of eve pvp sounds like so much fun....NOT.
Sigh, quoting some smart dude :)
Quote: ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
If your PVP consists of always being in a bubbled fleet shooting at another bubbled fleet then your FC's are muppets. With the correct tactics a smaller BS gang will easily deal with a larger gang, not in all situations of course, but using your head > blobbing up 90% of the time. Remember, this is a PVP game, you dont walways win .... nano***s frequently forget that fact because of their low risk gameplay.
Counter this pls.
You come into my systems with a "small BS gang" i tell ppl not to engage you here and procced to get a blob together including capitals and jump over you to a cyno jammed choke point so you are now stuck in my constellation with no targets. So you decide to leave and as you are leaving your scout reports a huge blob of caps and other ships on the other side of the out gate with half a dozen bubbles all over it.
Please enlighten us to your uber tactical scenarios and "CORRECT TACTICS" to deal with that in any ship types apart from nano mr pvp pro.
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Straife
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:47:00 -
[2596]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Read my post again, two mains in 0.0 alliances. Do you think I have never been attacked by a nano, or indeed that my huginn with a arazu mate hasnt made life miserable for a nano***?
The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang.
Hi whiney obviously ex Bruce alt. BTW I can almost guarantee that we have never had a 60+ man nano gang as in what you guys interperit a nano ship to be. Yes I've seen a few random 20 man vaga/nano gangs go out but we usually change fits to something that will annoy you more when we hit 20 guys in a gang.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:48:00 -
[2597]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 12:48:57 The entire point of the 'Sandbox' aspect of 0.0 player sov is that you're able to make it very secure, with proper preparations, individual pilot skill, and organizational strategic knowledge (ie: on a higher level than 'put bullets and missiles into the enemy). Cynojammers and jump bridges, among other things, are vital to this discussion.
Player sov 0.0 should not be about 'rat in complete safety for a few hours. Buy a Sniper battleship. Wait 7 hours to never load grid and wake up in a faraway outpost, without seeing another ship.'
Fight in Highsec, Lowsec, NPC 0.0, Player 0.0 as a defender and attacker (in both non-sovereignty and sovereignty operations). At a certain point, when they engage, it becomes all about docking games (bumping them off) or blobbing. This is why Nanos exist as a fitting strategy.
A 20-25 player gang with 10 or so shortrange locally tanked battleships will, in this day and age more often then not get barbecued by a hot drop and motherships. People fly Nanos because it isn't fun to fit up a 250M ISK ship that can only be used suicidally if the enemy ever engages, and because their idea of fun is not getting in the cheapest piece of shit they can scrap together from their hangar for the least amount of money (Ie, FW).
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Space Explorer
Minmatar Evil Fluffy Bunnies
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:54:00 -
[2598]
Great now we need to fit 4 webbers to get the same effect as one webber previously.
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 12:59:00 -
[2599]
Originally by: Space Explorer Great now we need to fit 4 webbers to get the same effect as one webber previously.
Yea but a scram is now a 500% web to any ship that is using a mwd lol.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:02:00 -
[2600]
Originally by: Andnowthenews
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews So you want gang fights to consist of 2 non moving dictor bubbled blobs sitting opposite each other plugging away until the gang with any ships left is considered the winner?.
Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?.
WOW your idea of eve pvp sounds like so much fun....NOT.
Sigh, quoting some smart dude :)
Quote: ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
If your PVP consists of always being in a bubbled fleet shooting at another bubbled fleet then your FC's are muppets. With the correct tactics a smaller BS gang will easily deal with a larger gang, not in all situations of course, but using your head > blobbing up 90% of the time. Remember, this is a PVP game, you dont walways win .... nano***s frequently forget that fact because of their low risk gameplay.
Counter this pls.
You come into my systems with a "small BS gang" i tell ppl not to engage you here and procced to get a blob together including capitals and jump over you to a cyno jammed choke point so you are now stuck in my constellation with no targets. So you decide to leave and as you are leaving your scout reports a huge blob of caps and other ships on the other side of the out gate with half a dozen bubbles all over it.
Please enlighten us to your uber tactical scenarios and "CORRECT TACTICS" to deal with that in any ship types apart from nano mr pvp pro.
If the "small BS gang" choose one of the few dead end constellations in this game to invade, went most of the way through it before discovering this, and decide to back track out of it... well, they have more to worry about than their limited tactical options at that point.
People speak as though after these changes, even if they go through unaltered, that fast moving HAC and RECON gangs will no longer be possible. I suppose that makes it sound better when opposing the balancing effort... to make it sound like the end of a playstyle but seriously, come on. Just who, exactly, are you trying to kid.
Some of the more extreme abuses of the system will be curbed, average speed of a nano gang may drop slightly but hardly enough to invalidate the numerous advantages of speed tanking and being in a swift moving raiding group.
Less "OMG nano will die and the game will be ruined" posts please... we all know that isn't even close to the truth.
More suggestions on how things can be tweaked to make things more interesting for ALL players (both nano and non-nano).
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:05:00 -
[2601]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Andnowthenews
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews So you want gang fights to consist of 2 non moving dictor bubbled blobs sitting opposite each other plugging away until the gang with any ships left is considered the winner?.
Or the hostile gang being ignored in the system while you jump bridge your blob over them to the constellation choke poin,t bubble the crap out of the gate so they have to jump through into YOUR capital/conventional blob or even a few titans?.
WOW your idea of eve pvp sounds like so much fun....NOT.
Sigh, quoting some smart dude :)
Quote: ah, the "putting words in their mouth" verbal shenanigans ...
If your PVP consists of always being in a bubbled fleet shooting at another bubbled fleet then your FC's are muppets. With the correct tactics a smaller BS gang will easily deal with a larger gang, not in all situations of course, but using your head > blobbing up 90% of the time. Remember, this is a PVP game, you dont walways win .... nano***s frequently forget that fact because of their low risk gameplay.
Counter this pls.
You come into my systems with a "small BS gang" i tell ppl not to engage you here and procced to get a blob together including capitals and jump over you to a cyno jammed choke point so you are now stuck in my constellation with no targets. So you decide to leave and as you are leaving your scout reports a huge blob of caps and other ships on the other side of the out gate with half a dozen bubbles all over it.
Please enlighten us to your uber tactical scenarios and "CORRECT TACTICS" to deal with that in any ship types apart from nano mr pvp pro.
If the "small BS gang" choose one of the few dead end constellations in this game to invade, went most of the way through it before discovering this, and decide to back track out of it... well, they have more to worry about than their limited tactical options at that point.
With a few well placed jump bridges who needs a dead end constellation, any choke point system will do as they can always jump ahead of any gang small BS or other.
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The Mach
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:05:00 -
[2602]
Edited by: The Mach on 28/07/2008 13:06:13 Choice one: 10km Web Choice two: 7.5km Scram
When have you ever seen a nano ship inside 10km let alone 7.5km??
No change here, just another way to ineffectivly catch nothing.
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The Mach
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:07:00 -
[2603]
This patch is like writing a letter to the government tbh.
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Korinn
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:07:00 -
[2604]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang.
PANSPLOITER LEGION MUTHA****AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Stab Wounds
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:24:00 -
[2605]
Originally by: Korinn
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang.
PANSPLOITER LEGION MUTHA****AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
i know you are being sarcastic but these are the only types of ships you guys field.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:28:00 -
[2606]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 13:28:32 god this forum is great
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=alliance&name=Brutally+Clever+Empire&id=3471651&page=54&filter=losses#mail
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:30:00 -
[2607]
I'll quote my own post on the Assembly Hall vote threads:
I like a lot of the individual changes being proposed. The redistribution of ship speeds by class, the polycarbon nerf, and the elimination of mass reduction are all likely to be good things, and I can see the web nerf and the meta>0 MWD nerf being good things as well, though I'm less sure of those.
But so many more of the individual changes are utterly wrong. People spend billions on Snakes, and destroying their value this thoroughly seems a mistake. Boosters aren't as expensive, but them having utility seems a good thing, and sig radius just isn't as important as speed. If they're underused, you don't nerf them. Similarly, if you're willing to give up 300+ DPS of heavy drones, an 83% web is not unreasonable, and so nerfing the virtually unusable web drones is a mistake. And the scram change, while interesting on paper, just seems foolish - MWDs aren't a problem inside 9 km(because of webs), they're a problem at 15-20.
Furthermore, their whole approach seems flawed. Speaking for myself, I don't want a speed nerf. Nerfbats are unsubtle, uninteresting, and just serve to **** off people who have invested a lot of time and money into doing things in a way that is no longer possible. What I want is a countermeasure worth a damn. Right now, I can think of exactly one module a generic non-nano ship can fit to counter a nano ship, and that's a heavy neut, not counting funky faction webs and stuff. There's no T2 ammo that provides a tracking bonus(an ideal role for Tremor/Gleam/Javelin, IMO), there's no web with enough extra range for less than 200 million, there's really nothing. That's the problem - the only decent counter that lets you actually kill a nano HAC is an interceptor. Add an anti-nano T2 ammo, and maybe change webs such that a higher meta adds range instead of speed reduction - T2 webs doing -50% at 20 km would be almost enough by itself(and change the Paladin and Kronos to 10% web effect, to keep the 2-in-1 effect). But don't just say "Everything speed-based has got to go" and assume that's a fix, let alone the right fix. Cutting all speeds in half doesn't nerf nanos worth a damn, it just buffs bubbles.
And to stave off whining, the only ship I've ever speed-fit is an Ares. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:31:00 -
[2608]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Some of the more extreme abuses of the system will be curbed, average speed of a nano gang may drop slightly
You know the 4km vaga fit with 2x Aux thruster II, 2x OD and HG snakes? You know how fast this goes on TQ atm?
7,3km/s. It goes 4km/s after the patch. This is not a slight drop, this is a MASSIVE drop that will eliminate speedtanking.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:32:00 -
[2609]
Originally by: Stab Wounds
Originally by: Korinn
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece The problem is: you very very rarely come across a single nano***, there is always a big gang and that huginn dies fast. In fact on one memorable occasion we had a Pathetic Legion nano*** gang of 60+ zooming around our system... tell me what gang makeup would be capable of killing 20% of them? answer, another nano gang.
PANSPLOITER LEGION MUTHA****AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
i know you are being sarcastic but these are the only types of ships you guys field.
Yep, that's some nano dreads and nano carriers right there: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-07-27 20:53:00&end_time=2008-07-27 22:44:00&system=7BX-6F
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:32:00 -
[2610]
Originally by: Andnowthenews Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 13:06:29
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Andnowthenews
Counter this pls.
You come into my systems with a "small BS gang" i tell ppl not to engage you here and procced to get a blob together including capitals and jump over you to a cyno jammed choke point so you are now stuck in my constellation with no targets. So you decide to leave and as you are leaving your scout reports a huge blob of caps and other ships on the other side of the out gate with half a dozen bubbles all over it.
Please enlighten us to your uber tactical scenarios and "CORRECT TACTICS" to deal with that in any ship types apart from nano mr pvp pro.
If the "small BS gang" choose one of the few dead end constellations in this game to invade, went most of the way through it before discovering this, and decide to back track out of it... well, they have more to worry about than their limited tactical options at that point.
With a few well placed jump bridges who needs a dead end constellation, any choke point system will do as they can always jump ahead of any type of gang, small BS or other.
Ahh, if it were only that easy. Fortunately, for everyone, it is not. Most constellations have multiple entry points (yes, even in 0.0), jumpbridges have limitations on number per system... range... and fuel use. If your assumption was accurate, even the nano gangs of today would be totally ineffective. And we all know that is not the case. No offense my friend, but your scenario only holds water if the defending territory is extremely well set up and the defenders have near perfect co-ordination. Yes, a defending 0.0 alliance has a "home court advantage" (as it should) but it is hardly insurmountable to a variety of types of "raiding groups". Personally, if I needed to rely on a small group of BS for such an incursion (and post changes there will still be no reason to have that as your only... or most viable... option) I would not look to push deeply into a heavily defended area. Instead a short, strong push to do as much damage as possible to any unprepared ships within a jump or two of the entry point. Pick off any early, disorganized response that may appear, and withdraw when resistance to heavy to effectively deal with arrives. These types of attacks happen multiple times every day in EVE now, and will continue to occur regardless of what happens. Classic hit and fade tactics. Perhaps we should try to stick to the reality of the proposed changes and see if we can give some construtive, realistic feedback.
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