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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:18:00 -
[2641]
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 14:19:15
Originally by: Ranger 1
Yes because the roaming gang was impossible in 0.0 alliance space even before the prevelance of nano gangs after jump bridges and bubbles came into gangs.
Oh wait...
Well, anyway, fast moving, well scouted gangs will be impossible after these changes.
Not imposable but much harder if you got camped even with nanos as they are. With the nerf it will be suicide.
Originally by: Ranger 1
But they will get caught in those bubbles so easily.
Of course the bubbles will be smaller post changes...
Is this the "whats heavier a pound of lead or a pound of feathers" argument?.
If they reduce the size of bubbles im sure ppl with Eisenstein's level of pvp intelligence will figure things out. HHMM let me think PUT MORE BUBBLES DOWN!!!!. WOW I MUST BE A GOD OF PVP KNOWLEDGE TO FIGURE THAT ONE OUT.
Originally by: Ranger 1
But being a bit slower, they will be webbed and helpless in those smaller bubbles.
Of course the webs will be far, far less effective post changes...
Who needs strong web effects (or if you do fit 2 its not like you need a scram with all those bubbles) when you have a multiple bubbled gate to burn away from that has a huge blob on it?.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:19:00 -
[2642]
Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
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Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:25:00 -
[2643]
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Tell him to try a ***abond tbh |
Hul'ka
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:25:00 -
[2644]
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
wasn't this the intention of the patch changes? Yay, devs have made it!!! --------- I want to phew phew
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Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:27:00 -
[2645]
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Oh god lol, i like my ishtar...looks like im gonna have to actually tank it or something now...you know...like the old days?
Remember guys? i miss decent slugging 1 on 1, or even a few on 1, just as long as its fighting...not dieing. And yes i have died to a few vagas, now all i can think of is how to combat the new problems that will arrive....ADAPT...ive said this before in here..
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Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:28:00 -
[2646]
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews All nano gangs risk losses unless they are fighting against total tards but then this is the real issue isn't it, the morons want the nerf cos they cannot be bothered to beef up on their piloting skills, ship fits and gang tactics.
Bleh, learn to quote FFS ..
And as others have pointed out several times yet you ignore them every single time, going into an enemy dead end constellation in a small bs gang that has a nice range of enemy caps and supercaps sitting around waiting to jumpbridge behind it is as contrived as it is likely to only end in one way. In the real world, a quick scout would have spotted the trap FC would have taken gang elsewhere .... unless you are suggesting that the small gang was an invasion force and couldnt go elsewhere?
If all else fails a "burn eden" fit would be employed and harass the hell out of the enemy.
This. Strategy is more important than fit.
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:30:00 -
[2647]
Originally by: Redback911
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews All nano gangs risk losses unless they are fighting against total tards but then this is the real issue isn't it, the morons want the nerf cos they cannot be bothered to beef up on their piloting skills, ship fits and gang tactics.
Bleh, learn to quote FFS ..
And as others have pointed out several times yet you ignore them every single time, going into an enemy dead end constellation in a small bs gang that has a nice range of enemy caps and supercaps sitting around waiting to jumpbridge behind it is as contrived as it is likely to only end in one way. In the real world, a quick scout would have spotted the trap FC would have taken gang elsewhere .... unless you are suggesting that the small gang was an invasion force and couldnt go elsewhere?
If all else fails a "burn eden" fit would be employed and harass the hell out of the enemy.
This. Strategy is more important than fit.
So your strategy is to NOT go into others systems looking for pvp?. WOW your like a veritable god of tactical knowledge.....
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:31:00 -
[2648]
Originally by: Redback911
I don't look at it as an alternative, as there is so very little risk with Nano it's untrue.
This is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've been on all sides of it, and I don't see it the way you do.
Originally by: Redback911
I think this is what CCP is inferring. Once they fix black ops.
Believe it when I see it, etc.
Originally by: Redback911
Why shouldn't they camp you in? FC's strategic failings let them camp you in.
I said nothing about being 'camped in'. I said about that the impression I get from listening to some of these muppets talk is that 15 ratting Battleships sitting in a system should be mostly immune from anything except a huge sniper fleet or capitals.
Originally by: Redback911
Agreed. Server fix and POS revamp pls.
I wish it was that easy
Originally by: Redback911
I see your point, but nanos remove too much risk from the attacker's end.
Perhaps. But the entire concept shouldn't be scrapped, and certainly not all at once, with collateral damage in the immense nature like it is here.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Archetype02
Gallente Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:33:00 -
[2649]
Originally by: Pushtan
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Oh god lol, i like my ishtar...looks like im gonna have to actually tank it or something now...you know...like the old days?
Remember guys? i miss decent slugging 1 on 1, or even a few on 1, just as long as its fighting...not dieing. And yes i have died to a few vagas, now all i can think of is how to combat the new problems that will arrive....ADAPT...ive said this before in here..
sigh.. epic fail on the ishtar now.. what makes it better than a tanked dominix ?.... domi tanks better.. domi has more cap.. domi can run heavier highs.. "neuts.. etc.." wow gee thanks for making the ishtar worthless!
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Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:34:00 -
[2650]
Originally by: Haakelen Perhaps. But the entire concept shouldn't be scrapped, and certainly not all at once, with collateral damage in the immense nature like it is here.
We actually agree here. Some simple module changes on both the nano and counter front would have sufficed (and sort out the acceleration issue)
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:34:00 -
[2651]
Originally by: Archetype02
sigh.. epic fail on the ishtar now.. what makes it better than a tanked dominix ?.... domi tanks better.. domi has more cap.. domi can run heavier highs.. "neuts.. etc.." wow gee thanks for making the ishtar worthless!
The myrmidon and Dominix are superior to the Ishtar in every single respect after this. There is literally no reason to ever fly one again unless you're a ****ing inbred.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:35:00 -
[2652]
Originally by: Archetype02
Originally by: Pushtan
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Oh god lol, i like my ishtar...looks like im gonna have to actually tank it or something now...you know...like the old days?
Remember guys? i miss decent slugging 1 on 1, or even a few on 1, just as long as its fighting...not dieing. And yes i have died to a few vagas, now all i can think of is how to combat the new problems that will arrive....ADAPT...ive said this before in here..
sigh.. epic fail on the ishtar now.. what makes it better than a tanked dominix ?.... domi tanks better.. domi has more cap.. domi can run heavier highs.. "neuts.. etc.." wow gee thanks for making the ishtar worthless!
You just cant see its uses, think about it...just TRY something new...like the first guy who tried a myrm with Arties or rather Auto's...people were like...WTF?! now its pretty much standard practice for anyone with half a brain.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:36:00 -
[2653]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 14:36:51
Originally by: Pushtan
You just cant see its uses, think about it...just TRY something new...like the first guy who tried a myrm with Arties or rather Auto's...people were like...WTF?! now its pretty much standard practice for anyone with half a brain.
Yes, you're right. The only way to effectively use an Ishtar or Myrmidon is to shield tank it and use non-racial weapons. This is good why?
Originally by: Redback911
Originally by: Haakelen Perhaps. But the entire concept shouldn't be scrapped, and certainly not all at once, with collateral damage in the immense nature like it is here.
We actually agree here. Some simple module changes on both the nano and counter front would have sufficed (and sort out the acceleration issue)
Yup. /\
It's too bad CCP isn't a fan of incremental, thought-out change
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:38:00 -
[2654]
Edited by: Call''Da Poleece on 28/07/2008 14:39:31
Originally by: Andnowthenews BE have the option to 100% pick and choose who and how many they fight because they are 1. static and 2. cloakers.
now, what other gameplay style lets you 100% pick and choose? what other gameplay style is even better because you can leg it if it starts to look a bit dangerous for you ...hmmm I wonder I wonder
Quote: They would never ever knowingly jump through a gate into a bubbled camp because they are not setup to deal with that sort of fighting. Nobody is saying that they do not get lots kills or that they can win outnumbered against certain types of gangs or that they annoy the hell out of certain alliances.
But the fact is that they do not run roaming gangs they run cloaking gate camps and as such this nerf is a benefit to that style of static pvp not a detriment.
A good FC would never jump into a system with no eyes on the other side. Only speed fitted ships do things like that because they are 99% sure they can burn back to gate or out of the bubble. The biggest danger? a single ship type or a nano*** bumping you before you reach the gate ... even then they are not much of a risk.
/edit typo |
Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:38:00 -
[2655]
Actually, this is like the SWG CU upgrade ain't it :-)
-runs-
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Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:40:00 -
[2656]
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 14:36:51
Originally by: Pushtan
You just cant see its uses, think about it...just TRY something new...like the first guy who tried a myrm with Arties or rather Auto's...people were like...WTF?! now its pretty much standard practice for anyone with half a brain.
Yes, you're right. The only way to effectively use an Ishtar or Myrmidon is to shield tank it and use non-racial weapons. This is good why?
Well for a start a myrm can sheild tank as well as it can armour tank, and it gets no bonii to its weapons.......both WORK, thats why.
As for the ishtar, well, why not try things? all i can do atm is EFT warrior stuff - when im back home, ill test it all out. But i suspect itll STILL be able to nano, 2 x tracking disruptors? IT DOESNT MATTER what you do...just TRY...
****es me off, all these tards saying ''ill cancel my umpteen billion accounts if this goes through''....that it? you can onyl do ONE thing with a ship or pvpstyle? christ, i think you should leave the game...
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:43:00 -
[2657]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 14:42:59
Originally by: Pushtan
Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 14:36:51
Originally by: Pushtan
You just cant see its uses, think about it...just TRY something new...like the first guy who tried a myrm with Arties or rather Auto's...people were like...WTF?! now its pretty much standard practice for anyone with half a brain.
Yes, you're right. The only way to effectively use an Ishtar or Myrmidon is to shield tank it and use non-racial weapons. This is good why?
Well for a start a myrm can sheild tank as well as it can armour tank, and it gets no bonii to its weapons.......both WORK, thats why.
As for the ishtar, well, why not try things? all i can do atm is EFT warrior stuff - when im back home, ill test it all out. But i suspect itll STILL be able to nano, 2 x tracking disruptors? IT DOESNT MATTER what you do...just TRY...
****es me off, all these tards saying ''ill cancel my umpteen billion accounts if this goes through''....that it? you can onyl do ONE thing with a ship or pvpstyle? christ, i think you should leave the game...
And you, as usual, keep missing the point entirely.
Suppose you accept the fact that a GALLENTE ship should be passive shield tanking and using autocannons. In that situation the Myrmidon is still better than the Ishtar, and there's no reason to fly an Ishtar.
Suppose you don't accept that ******ed shit up there and try to use racial weapons and tank (lol gallente) on them. The Myrmidon is still better than the Ishtar, and there's no reason to fly an Ishtar.
Hooray HACs being pointless.
Originally by: Redback911 Actually, this is like the SWG CU upgrade ain't it :-)
-runs-
Eve Online: NGEmpyrean Age
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
thoraxius demioses
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:44:00 -
[2658]
Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:58 Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:19
http://teamdynamicsskins.org/EVE/nanonerf.jpg
tell me why i woud bother witha tech2 mwd.. it costs more to run it.. it costs more pg. it costs more on the market.. and the rest of all the attributes are the same????
10secs reactivation delay.. thanks for makign the alrdy useless cap penalty bonus on my deimos .. even more worthless..
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:45:00 -
[2659]
Originally by: Archetype02
Originally by: Pushtan
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Oh god lol, i like my ishtar...looks like im gonna have to actually tank it or something now...you know...like the old days?
Remember guys? i miss decent slugging 1 on 1, or even a few on 1, just as long as its fighting...not dieing. And yes i have died to a few vagas, now all i can think of is how to combat the new problems that will arrive....ADAPT...ive said this before in here..
sigh.. epic fail on the ishtar now.. what makes it better than a tanked dominix ?.... domi tanks better.. domi has more cap.. domi can run heavier highs.. "neuts.. etc.." wow gee thanks for making the ishtar worthless!
Ishtar has: control radius bonus, better resists, faster lock time, better align and warp flight time, it is green.
People flew ishtar's before the nanofad. People will fly them after. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:46:00 -
[2660]
''And you, as usual, keep missing the point entirely.
Suppose you accept the fact that a GALLENTE ship should be passive shield tanking and using autocannons. In that situation the Myrmidon is still better than the Ishtar, and there's no reason to fly an Ishtar.
Suppose you don't accept that ******ed shit up there and try to use racial weapons and tank (lol gallente) on them. The Myrmidon is still better than the Ishtar, and there's no reason to fly an Ishtar.
Hooray HACs being pointless.''
cba to try and clean that quote block up.
i dont use blasters/rails on a myrm for one reason. CAP. and i dont shield tank, im saying ive come across some that rival my own armour tank...
So, in conclusion, i wont be seeing you in a hac ever again, good stuff - at least you can stop *****ing now? meanwhile, us thinking men will try and figure a new way of working with the ishtar, if we choose to use it.
(didnt think so)
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:46:00 -
[2661]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg People will fly them after.
People fly Cyclones right now. What's your point?
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:47:00 -
[2662]
Originally by: thoraxius demioses Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:58 Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:19
http://teamdynamicsskins.org/EVE/nanonerf.jpg
tell me why i woud bother witha tech2 mwd.. it costs more to run it.. it costs more pg. it costs more on the market.. and the rest of all the attributes are the same????
10secs reactivation delay.. thanks for makign the alrdy useless cap penalty bonus on my deimos .. even more worthless..
The cap thing on the mwd is skewed and will be fixed. Reactivation delay is only after being warp scrammed, you can keep running it like on TQ.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:48:00 -
[2663]
Originally by: Euriti Here's your slight drop ranger1:
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
This is from a guy who tested sis.
Re-read my post.
I said extreme setups would get curbed more sharply. I also said that the avearge ship in a nano gang will see a smaller hit.
That example would be an extreme case, wouldn't you agree? (And frankly, if he got whacked by missiles at that even that speed, he's doing it wrong. Let me guess, flying solo in a close range head to head scenario. Please.... )
More to the point, this is the whole reason for testing on Sisi, to tweak things to the point where it is balanced and enjoyable for the speed tanker and the other players involved... win OR lose.
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Andnowthenews
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:49:00 -
[2664]
Edited by: Andnowthenews on 28/07/2008 14:51:56
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
Originally by: Andnowthenews BE have the option to 100% pick and choose who and how many they fight because they are 1. static and 2. cloakers.
now, what other gameplay style lets you 100% pick and choose? what other gameplay style is even better because you can leg it if it starts to look a bit dangerous for you ...hmmm I wonder I wonder
All of them tbh especially if you are fighting in your home systems with friendly posses on a station or gate. Why do ppl seem to ignore the fact that its the defenders choice to engage a roaming gang in their home systems or not?.
Originally by: Call'Da Poleece
A good FC would never jump into a system with no eyes on the other side. Only speed fitted ships do things like that because they are 99% sure they can burn back to gate or out of the bubble.
EXACTLY!.
So all defending alliances need do now is setup their jump bridges at choke points and jump over any gang that enters their space, bubble up and blob the gate. And as you say any good FC knowing that a alliance is gonna do this will not take his gang into that alliances systems in the first place. Like you say yourself only speed fitted ships stand a chance to get through (or away at a range so they can put up a fight) so with this stupid nerf roaming gangs are screwed.
TYVM.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:52:00 -
[2665]
Myrmidon being better than Ishtar?
Are you people dull? Ishtar can field heavy drones. There. That's it. Advantage.
And Ill anticipate what you dullards are going to say: you're forgetting the AC's/blasters that the mrmidon pilot is fitting.
And I'll say: you're forgetting the NOS/Nuets the Ishtar is fitting, along with the ECM in the mids and the excellent 4 slot tank in the lows.
Coupled with a faster lock time, align/warp time, speed, control radius (its got that bonus, duh), drone reserve....need I go on?
Silly nano-tards.
IN addition, that control raduis bonus (25km are lvl5?) allows that ishtar to speed away from a fight; using its drone 70km from the gate, letting them remote-**** targets while it stands safe from the action. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Cutesmile
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:52:00 -
[2666]
Originally by: RaTTuS Sisi up and running so go and start testing ;-P
The connection to the server was closed. Try it, and say it for CCP guys update this sh*t Sisi. over 3 months ago not updated.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:53:00 -
[2667]
Edited by: Haakelen on 28/07/2008 14:53:34
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg along with the ECM in the mids and the excellent 4 slot tank in the lows.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg ECM in the mids
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg excellent 4 slot tank in the lows.
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg ECM
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg 4 slot tank
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:53:00 -
[2668]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Myrmidon being better than Ishtar?
Are you people dull? Ishtar can field heavy drones. There. That's it. Advantage.
And Ill anticipate what you dullards are going to say: you're forgetting the AC's/blasters that the mrmidon pilot is fitting.
And I'll say: you're forgetting the NOS/Nuets the Ishtar is fitting, along with the ECM in the mids and the excellent 4 slot tank in the lows.
Coupled with a faster lock time, align/warp time, speed, control radius (its got that bonus, duh), drone reserve....need I go on?
Silly nano-tards.
IN addition, that control raduis bonus (25km are lvl5?) allows that ishtar to speed away from a fight; using its drone 70km from the gate, letting them remote-**** targets while it stands safe from the action.
QFT
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Call'Da Poleece
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:54:00 -
[2669]
Originally by: thoraxius demioses Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:58 Edited by: thoraxius demioses on 28/07/2008 14:45:19
http://teamdynamicsskins.org/EVE/nanonerf.jpg
tell me why i woud bother witha tech2 mwd.. it costs more to run it.. it costs more pg. it costs more on the market.. and the rest of all the attributes are the same????
10secs reactivation delay.. thanks for makign the alrdy useless cap penalty bonus on my deimos .. even more worthless..
Interesting .... watch prices of best named go nuts. CCP will no doubt be tweaking, but without modifying % increase people will gravitate towards named. Also did I read that webs are getting a increase in range? |
Xyleya
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:54:00 -
[2670]
Straight from SiSi...
Vagabond:
10MN MWD II (Acc. Control LvL 5) 3x OD II
No implants, hardwirings or rigs = 3500m/sec.
And yes... 3x OD II is the best you can do with the now changed Nanofiber's or Polycarbons. .
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