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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:54:00 -
[61]
Unless the modifications in this nerf are changed significantly, missiles will need to be looked at seriously.
Going by the words of the Devblog itself, missiles will not be able to be outrun (ie: out tracked). With the broad spectrum speed nerf, they will be doing nearly full damage against almost every ship except interceptors. There are FOFs. Damage type can be selected. Average damage per hit will still be high. There's no gradient in regards to long range vs. short range missiles in the spectrum of Cruisers/BCs/HACs/CSes. Defenders are 100% useless, but they are not a realistic counter anyway, as they are launched from missile hardpoints, and Gallente/Amarr generally lack those.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Upright
Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:57:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Upright on 28/07/2008 16:57:13 Skills: Nav V, Accel. Ctrl. IV
Implants Mid level Rouge Set
Zealot setup:10MN MWD T2, 4x Overdrives T2, 3x Nanofiber T2, and 2x Polycarb I's.
Speed=2.2k
Harb setup: 10MN MWD T2
Speed:1.1k
Seems a bit 'UNBALANCED' to me.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:07:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Upright Edited by: Upright on 28/07/2008 16:58:17 Edited by: Upright on 28/07/2008 16:57:13 Skills: Nav V, Accel. Ctrl. IV
Implants Mid level Rouge Set
Zealot setup:10MN MWD T2, 4x Overdrives T2, 3x Nanofiber T2, and 2x Polycarb I's.
Speed=2.2k
Harb setup: 10MN MWD T2
Speed=1.1k
Seems a bit 'UNBALANCED' to me.
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KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:08:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Sceelax News just in!!! Low-Grade Snake Omegas are now worthless!!! All these implants take slot 6.
LG snake omega 2561m/s rogue cy1 2562m/s rogue cy2 2611m/s rogue my1 2551m/s rogue my2 2594m/s
Right now on TQ, if a charachter has the following implants fitted:
Slot 6: rogue AY-1 Slot 7: rogue CY-1 Slot 9: rogue GY-1 Slot 10: rogue MY-1
What happens after the nerf, if AY, CY, and MY all now take slot 6? Will the implants just disappear?
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Barsexual
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:09:00 -
[65]
ran some tests with a stopwatch... with complete removal of mass reduction bonus from mods and 1,590,000 mass increase on the Vagabond:
6-7 seconds to reach 5800m/s on Tranq 16-17 seconds to reach 3200m/sec on Sisi
Add 10 second mwd reactivation delay for taste
agility is lol
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:10:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Zikka on 28/07/2008 17:11:21
Originally by: Jallem Sims Jeese, just imagine i set up a char to do just this, and without warning ccp change the goal posts. Kinda like wasting my time and rl money by doing this? I think if your planning this, you should not implement it so quick for those that have just got to this level to actually experiance the flavour of there hard work :(
its not the nerf/boost i am sad and feel cheated by, its the speed in which it will be implemented with out been informed it was coming. for those of us that have just finished or about to finish this long training path, and not been able to experiance the hard work we put in.
Erm, this nerf has been coming and announced for around a year.
There have been numerous dev blogs and interviews dating back to at least last fanfest and at the alliance tournament stating that a nerf to speed was definitely coming although they didn't know what form it would take yet.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:12:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire I will petition (and not only me) to have skill points redistributed from skirmish warfare to other warfare skill.
Save your time and the GMs. CCP will not do this.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:13:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Kay Han But hey lets all skill for drakes right now. Seems to be the superiour ship after the patch
Please, god, someone who can log into the test server and has BS 5/T2 Blasters try out a Mega and see if it's been destroyed too.
Oh yea, forget the standard blaster mega. Your cap will be gone before (if) you get there and you cant stop your prey with a web. Yes I tested this on Sisi.
Ill echo most of the sensible replies Ive heard so far. This nerf was needed but its impact is far too broad.
I hate 8000kms vagabonds but 3200 is just silly.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
Draahk Chimera
Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:16:00 -
[69]
Not to be harsh but you guys fail hard in your test setups. Nanos are changedf to give a slight speed and agility increase. something in between istabs and od. Polycarbons have been balanced with other rigs and is now worse then nanofibre I. MicroWarpDrive has been changed so all meta levels give 500% speed boost. Thus: The best possible speed setup post patch will be 3 overdrives + any mwd. Fitting anything more then that will not help due to stacking.
A viable (not uber-faction) vagabond setup post patch is: Any mwd, 3 overdrives II, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC, 'Rouge' MY-1, Zor's hyper link. Thats it. A better result can still be obtained by throwing more money at it: Any mwd, 3 Domination overdrives, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC II, Full snake set, Zor's hyper link.
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: KingCappo
What happens after the nerf, if AY, CY, and MY all now take slot 6? Will the implants just disappear?
I would imagine all the implants that take the same slot would be returned to your hangar where you clone contract is set.
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:17:00 -
[71]
So will Dev's allow Minmatar character's to migrate their SP over to amarr??? PLEASE? IM SERIOUS! PLEASE LET US MIGRATE OUR SP TO OTHER RACES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
A viable (not uber-faction) vagabond setup post patch is: Any mwd, 3 overdrives II, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC, 'Rouge' MY-1, Zor's hyper link. Thats it. A better result can still be obtained by throwing more money at it: Any mwd, 3 Domination overdrives, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC II, Full snake set, Zor's hyper link.
Check agility. Go fit nanofibers.
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Haakelen
Gallente Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:18:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Trent Nichols
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Kay Han But hey lets all skill for drakes right now. Seems to be the superiour ship after the patch
Please, god, someone who can log into the test server and has BS 5/T2 Blasters try out a Mega and see if it's been destroyed too.
Oh yea, forget the standard blaster mega. Your cap will be gone before (if) you get there and you cant stop your prey with a web. Yes I tested this on Sisi.
Ill echo most of the sensible replies Ive heard so far. This nerf was needed but its impact is far too broad.
I hate 8000kms vagabonds but 3200 is just silly.
This is very not good, and I seriously hope the Devs look into it immensely. Blasters have serious tracking and range issues that gallente pilots have dealt with JUST FINE for years and DO NOT need to be buffed/changed but the inability to get into range, keeping a target there, or getting them trackable would completely destroy the PvP ability of the Megathron, Astarte, Eos, Brutix, Thorax, Deimos, and Hyperion.
My views and opinions represent my corporation just fine, thanks. |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:21:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/07/2008 17:21:22 There is major problem now. FIGHTERS
They are faster than new "nano" HACs. As an anti-capital/battleship weapon they are going to evaporate all cruisers. Fix?
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Ikoras
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:24:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Ikoras on 28/07/2008 17:24:46 Everyone is testing these setups as if everyone can afford them. The majority of eve pilots cannot afford snakes,t2 rigs and faction gear.
with 3% hardwires(no snakes) and standard t2 with t1 polys, you'll be lucky to get a vaga to break 2.5k and orbit around 1-1.5k. the ship melts
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ChoppinBrocolli
ElitistOps GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:24:00 -
[76]
My feedback: the best balancing is done by taking babysteps.
And this patch is changing way too much at once making it impossible to fully oversee the consequences. You will break more than you will fix.
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teji
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:26:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/07/2008 17:21:22 There is major problem now. FIGHTERS
They are faster than new "nano" HACs. As an anti-capital/battleship weapon they are going to evaporate all cruisers. Fix?
Cap-ships online intended. Save yourself the trouble of finding fun things to do in the game. Just train for carriers and dreads. This is what ccp wants.
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Shurq Ellale
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:27:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ikoras with 3% hardwires(no snakes) and standard t2 with t1 polys, you'll be lucky to get a vaga to break 2.5k and orbit around 1-1.5k. the ship melts
There's really little reason to fit polys anymore. 3-4 ODs, 2-3 i-stabs/agility rigs.
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ikoras Edited by: Ikoras on 28/07/2008 17:24:46 Everyone is testing these setups as if everyone can afford them. The majority of eve pilots cannot afford snakes,t2 rigs and faction gear.
But it's OK because the speed advantage you get from snakes, T2 rigs and faction gear is now so negligible that it isn't worth it for anything other than an interceptor.
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Taya Tal
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:28:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Taya Tal on 28/07/2008 17:30:26 Edited by: Taya Tal on 28/07/2008 17:28:47 Edited by: Taya Tal on 28/07/2008 17:28:13
Originally by: teji
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/07/2008 17:21:22 There is major problem now. CALDARI
Their missiles are faster than new "nano" HACs. As an anti-everything weapon they are going to evaporate all cruisers. Fix?
Caldari-online intended. Save yourself the trouble of finding fun things to do in the game. Just train for Drake and Ravens. This is what ccp wants.
I fixed the post for you. No thanks required.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:33:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Taya Tal
Originally by: teji
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/07/2008 17:21:22 There is major problem now. CALDARI
Their missiles are faster than new "nano" HACs. As an anti-everything weapon they are going to evaporate all cruisers. Fix?
Caldari-online intended. Save yourself the trouble of finding fun things to do in the game. Just train for Drake and Ravens. This is what ccp wants.
I fixed the post for you. No thanks required.
Well pretty much agreed that there needs to be some good missile defence for ships on par with TD's for turrets. Defenders are total joke.
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Fish Brain
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:34:00 -
[82]
I dunno how many people have noticed this yet, BUT...Tobias' web (best web ingame) now has -60% max velocity bonus AND...wait for it...
...
...
20km range pwahahahhahahahahahahah MOMs.
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Upright
Amarr Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:35:00 -
[83]
Quote: Well pretty much agreed that there needs to be some good missile defence for ships on par with TD's for turrets. Defenders are total joke.
Agreed. Give it to the Matar Recons, instead of the target paiting bonus. I dont fly em, but i feel sorry for the buggers now.
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:35:00 -
[84]
Rapier before 3.0k/s with 2 ODII's and some CPRs without nav rigs Now its 1.4k/s
HACs are dead, they take forever to get to speed, will not turn, and will have an extremely hard time to get back to gates.
Small Gang PVP is dead We can no longer bump ships off stations Diversity is dead for gangs Station hugging is king for failures Blob is king for failure naptrain alliances
This is not about adjusting the top 1% of speed ships. You have screwed up everything that made small gang PVP tactical and fun. Ability to go 50-70 jumps for a fight is over with. ALl you will see are vagas and falcons in 0.0 small gang PVP, no need for anthing else because it will just die trying to get to speed.
And now missiles might need to be looked at? Why do you people continue to screw with everything just to find out the ramifications of the primary screw up and then thoughtlessly screw with moar stuff? Get rid of these changes, put a 15k/s cap on speed and your done. Work on SOV, Lag, 0.0. its pretty much Game Over if these changes go live.
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Aberash
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:36:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
A viable (not uber-faction) vagabond setup post patch is: Any mwd, 3 overdrives II, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC, 'Rouge' MY-1, Zor's hyper link. Thats it. A better result can still be obtained by throwing more money at it: Any mwd, 3 Domination overdrives, 2 gyros II, 2 CCC II, Full snake set, Zor's hyper link.
That thing will turn like a piece of furniture... and nowone will faction fit or spend a lot of money on nano ships anymore because its pointless and they will pop easy
.:Aberash's EvE GFX Gallery:. |
Alek Row
Minmatar Silent Step
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:37:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Before:
| | Speed | Mass | Inertia | Agility | |------------+-------+--------+---------+---------| | Tempest | 140 | 102.5m | 0.155 | 15.89m | | Megathron | 125 | 102.5m | 0.155 | 15.89m | | Apocalypse | 115 | 107.5m | 0.155 | 16.66m | | Raven | 115 | 110.0m | 0.145 | 15.95m |
After:
| | Speed | Mass | Inertia | Agility | |------------+-------+--------+---------+---------| | Tempest | 120 | 103.3m | 0.15 | 15.50m | | Megathron | 105 | 98.4m | 0.155 | 15.25m | | Apocalypse | 94 | 97.1m | 0.165 | 16.02m | | Raven | 94 | 99.3 | 0.155 | 15.39m |
Agility = Mass * Inertia Modifier (low is good!)
High inertia modifier means more (absolute) effect from agility modules.
So, some comparison:
Tempest: 85% speed / 97.5% agility Megathron: 84% speed / 96% agility Apoc: 81.7% speed / 96% agility Raven: 81.7% speed / 96.5% agility
Remember, low agility is good (that's a bit counter-intuitive). That is, all ships above have better agility now than before. Except that the Tempest has gained the least. Well, we all know that the Tempest has been the most overpowered battleship, it's time it's getting rebalanced. (If you have a sarcasm detector, be advised that using it on this post might cause severe problems)
To compensate, the base speed of the Tempest got nerfed the least. With the differences in mass, though, it is very difficult to say what speed you reach in reality. Sadly, I can't fly any BS but Minmatar, so can't give hard numbers, but Tempest (2x 1600mm plate, 3x trimark) is 1,094 m/s on TQ, 860 m/s on SiSi.
Edit: Also, Tempest has the highest mass, meaning it benefits from MWD the least. That can't be right.
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mynnna
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:43:00 -
[87]
Originally by: ChoppinBrocolli My feedback: the best balancing is done by taking babysteps.
And this patch is changing way too much at once making it impossible to fully oversee the consequences. You will break more than you will fix.
This. This this this. There's a reason why, in science, you change one thing at a time, and the reason applies here, too.
If it's ridiculous speeds you're worried about, start with snake implants. If stuff is still too fast for your taste (AFTER remembering that snakes are owned by a tiny percentage of the population and NOT ever nanohac pilot runs around with them!), address polycarbon engine housings. After all, most other rigs are inferior to their module counterparts, Polys should be too.
If that's still not enough to do your stated goal of reducing ludicrous speeds, work from there. This changing everything at once stuff though? Bad idea, bad plan, not going to work. You're just going to wind up with a bunch of unhappy players.
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Pete Stalker
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:44:00 -
[88]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Speed must never reach ludicrous speed
Now THAT:
Originally by: Sceelax
Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
...is ludicrous.
There are only two types of aircrafts -- fighters and targets. |
Leon 026
Caldari Vorace.
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:44:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Leon 026 on 28/07/2008 17:45:31 There's one glaring issue that I'll have to bring up, and its the redundance of some skills in terms of cap.
I'm a 100% max skilled crow pilot (Accel control V, High Speed Maneuvering V (IV on SiSi), Navigation V, Warhead upgrades V, Light Missile spec V, etc...)
And this is what I've noticed while testing the crow :
MWD no longer have a -25% cap, so this means that interceptors are now literally -swimming- in cap. There is no more need to manage cap in any way what so ever, and due to the fact that the better the MWD the less cap it takes, and add to that the various High Speed Maneuvering skills, I can honestly say that an interceptor with a T1 MWD with HSM 2 would handle and fly exactly the same as a Gistii MWD with HSM 5, for the simple reason that there is so much capacitor, you're not going to run out. Ever.
I don't know whether its a good thing or a bad thing, but from an interceptor pilot's point of view, you really do not need THAT much cap lying around without being used.
Pure speculation of course, but I'm more worried about "ganka-tanka" interceptors using an AB that will truly make the assault frigate redundant.
Recruiting |
teji
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Posted - 2008.07.28 17:46:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Taya Tal Will CCP do anything to help the Rapier/Huginn? I would like at least something done to help them crawl out of their stupidly deep hole. They used to be very popular in PvP, but now I fear that they will go the way of NanoPhoons and Cavalry Ravens.
Replace the TP bonus with a web strength bonus. Or they could just revert these asinine changes.
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